[Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4

@choicesponge said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

@greaseman85 - I understand. What do you propose (aside from segregation, of course)?

"Segregation" is really the only way. It's so clear that people that enjoy PvP don't want any kind of rules or compromises in it. They don't want safe spaces, nor semi safe spaces, they don't want anything at all because "possibly exploitable"/"goes against the core of the game"

A totally separate mode sounds like a reasonable option, if not a PvE server then a private server. It wouldn't touch nor hurt the PvPvE mode that it is now, more players would play the game, other games have done this and they are still around so it wasn't that awful.

@logansdadtoo - Great input. No need to apologize, but I appreciate you doing so.

I agree that docking/camping fees aren't a good idea--just a thought. Same with faster sloops. I only offer those as alternatives to the current balance. As for safe zones, I agree there should be no purely safe zone.

But some sort of region of the world with many ways in and out could work. I think a region that offers limited gameplay (only exploration and merchant voyages), with many ways in and out of the region (middle of the game world), and a large fortress in the center with many cannons to protect peaceful players would add to the game. I have posted some ideas for a place like this here: https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/56651/the-colonies-a-comprise-for-pve-pvp-issues-fun.

I think we can all agree that there will always be problems with campers, greifers, and pirates. The hope is to try to come up with ways to balance it all.

@savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

@navarita said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

@choicesponge said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

@greaseman85 - I understand. What do you propose (aside from segregation, of course)?

"Segregation" is really the only way. It's so clear that people that enjoy PvP don't want any kind of rules or compromises in it. They don't want safe spaces, nor semi safe spaces, they don't want anything at all because "possibly exploitable"/"goes against the core of the game"

A totally separate mode sounds like a reasonable option, if not a PvE server then a private server. It wouldn't touch nor hurt the PvPvE mode that it is now, more players would play the game, other games have done this and they are still around so it wasn't that awful.

It could hurt it. The PVE alone would need to take the game mechanics in a different direction. PvP and player interaction with the potential hostility is not an insignificant portion of the game. It's not like WoW where they built an entire PvE game and let people murder each other on PvP servers.

Let's suppose it's true. Would it hurt it more than it would benefit the game? If this game wants to make money off microtransactions it needs players, and a load of them lol

@greaseman85 - I agree that players need some incentive for exploration and peaceful encounters.

I disagree that the world is dead. There are pirates and merchants already in the world for players to interact with. Not really sure why you suggest AI pirates and merchants instead of accepting human players.

I agree with a safe zone to an extent. It shouldn't allow a completely safe environment and should have limited gameplay.

@choicesponge Adding more AI enemies than aimbot skeletons would add a new dynamic to the game.

@greaseman85
I for one would love AI ships. But alas Rare said they didnt want it. But you are right. We need about a dozen more enemy types

@savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

@navarita

Let's suppose it's true. Would it hurt it more than it would benefit the game? If this game wants to make money off microtransactions it needs players, and a load of them lol

It depends on what people want out of the game. You would hurt the people that bought the game for what it is...

If this game wants to make money it needs to cater to a group of people and stick to it. It's already catering to a group of people and alienating them while having a subpar PvE experience will likely just end up with fewer people. There is a core experience here. Building on that core experience won't cater to exclusive PvEr's.

I really don't understand the logic of having a completely separate game mode that might attract people to the game = bad. Is this because of all the trolls being like "if you add PVE I'll leave the game".

First of all, if someone is going to spend money on the game they want to actually show off their pirate, something that you can't do when the only time you see other people is to kill or get killed. And what about all the PvPrs that play the game just to kill other people, of the kind that let chests sink because they aren't there for the gold or reputation, the same ones that are always wearing the basic clothes, are they going to spend money on the game?

The game could really do with an optional story questline to follow. Think Zelda: Wind Waker, just not that elaborate. Something that has you sailing all over the region and visiting various islands outside of having a company mission that specifically sends you to one.

@navarita - In my opinion it is a bad idea because the world needs peaceful players and aggressive players together at the same time to maximize enjoyment for all play styles. If the world is only aggressive players, it would just be endless war, the pirates would have nobody to hunt, and there would be no chance for a peaceful encounter since every player might as well be the first to shoot. Likewise, if the world was only peaceful players, it would just be a steady grind-fest until you reach a certain level or buy your favorite hat, at which point, why keep playing?

Combining the two worlds, we have a chance for peaceful encounters and aggressive encounters in the same shared archipelago. Not knowing how the other boat will react to my presence, and I to his/her/it's presence, is part of the joy of the game. While there seems to me a favoring of aggression at the moment, there are ways to try to encourage more peaceful encounters, some of which need to be implemented/developed.

Really tired of having to repeat my points over and over, so not gonna bother engaging. With a PvE mode I would play, and so would my friends. If the game stays like it is, I'll just play something else, and so will my friends that, honestly, have already forgotten of the existence of this game since even before their gamepasses expired. Period. Good luck.

@navarita - Ok. I think that is unfortunate because there is a place for your style of gameplay in this world. For instance, I am not a shoot-on-sight player. I primarily play solo sloop. I like to explore caves, shipwrecks, and beaches for loot. I am slowly chipping away with the factions without cheesing the system. I simply just avoid other players as much as possible. That is not very hard to do in a world with only a handful of ships.

@savagetwinky You are the one missing the point. A PvE mode won't stand on its own FOR YOU. That does not mean others wouldn't enjoy it.

@choicesponge said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

@navarita - In my opinion it is a bad idea because the world needs peaceful players and aggressive players together at the same time to maximize enjoyment for all play styles. If the world is only aggressive players, it would just be endless war, the pirates would have nobody to hunt, and there would be no chance for a peaceful encounter since every player might as well be the first to shoot. Likewise, if the world was only peaceful players, it would just be a steady grind-fest until you reach a certain level or buy your favorite hat, at which point, why keep playing?

Combining the two worlds, we have a chance for peaceful encounters and aggressive encounters in the same shared archipelago. Not knowing how the other boat will react to my presence, and I to his/her/it's presence, is part of the joy of the game. While there seems to me a favoring of aggression at the moment, there are ways to try to encourage more peaceful encounters, some of which need to be implemented/developed.

So how do you force the peaceful players to keep playing? Is it better to have them just leave the game entirely than to find a way to keep them as paying customers?

@chitown-bear
Well seeing as how the game is an open world pvppve game....i dont think peaceful players are the ones the game is aimed at anyway

@nwo-azcrack At least you are willing to admit that the end result is Rare losing a substantial part of its player base.

@chitown-bear
I am. Im a realist mate. I know this game will never top any charts. Wont break many records and wont attract alot of ppl. And its ok. Rare is trying to be a little different. No safe zones, or pve mode. Forced crossplay. Its gonna turn the casual crowd away. But it will have a stable base of players that love and understand the game. Its no big deal really.

@savagetwinky Some people enjoy those fetch quests.

Personally, I would find PvE only extremely boring. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want Rare to offer it as an option.

In reality, there isn't much to the PVP either. The weapons don't handle well, cross play isn't balanced, and you can go 30 minutes searching for other boats. There isn't even any surprise value in it since every ship on the horizon always is hostile.

The best thing that the game has going for it is how goofy it is. That would go over better in a less PVP forward version imo.

@choicesponge said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

@navarita I think that is unfortunate because there is a place for your style of gameplay in this world.

No, there isn't. I barely have free time, so why would I even consider dedicating the little I have to SoT if there's even a small chance that by the end of it I would have zero more experience and gold (and what bothers me EVEN MORE, another player out there would have cashed MY gold and MY reputation).

As long as this is a possibility I'm not even touching this game. I logged in, purchased that 1 gold rifle, closed it. I'm not risking spending the very little free time I have making myself more sour and some [redacted] out there richer.

Only reason why I'm still in the forums is because I had the slightest bit of hope that Rare would hear the complains from people like me, and give the option to enjoy this game stress free. But I guess I should just give up, and uninstall the game once and for all and move from it because Rare really, really seem to completely ignore this side of the playerbase.

It is such a shame, because this game really could have been the perfect game for disconnecting from a long day. Just sailing around, digging a couple chest, doing stuff CALMLY in game. Instead we have this stress making machine that transforms every player encounter in a total loss of faith in humanity.

@navarita
Its an open world game called Sea of Thieves. Im not sure why you thought it would calm and relaxing....

@nwo-azcrack the same way an open world game called Elite: DANGEROUS is relaxing. Very long trips, solo sessions, killing NPCs, taking care of the ship.

And oh, if the title of the game was a perfect description of it, not a single player in the game would ever die. It's Sea of Thieves, not Sea of Grave Robbers, right?

@navarita
Then go play those mate. You are asking for a pve server everyday. Thats not what this thread is about. Its about balance. Not segregation

What im readimg is that some people want a just pve and others dont why not put a special lantern kn the top of the crows nest where once lit in 10 min makes them immune to other players as well as other player immune to them. But this would be a problom when it came to raids as then an immune player could just sit and wait to take the loot and sail away un scaved. The only reall way to fix this is to have 2 typs of server one with low population and a high population. If your less likly to see another ship then no problom but other like to fight so the high pop would suite them better. Or once the said latern is lit they couldnt access the raids so as to not effect others.

@navarita said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

@nwo-azcrack the same way an open world game called Elite: DANGEROUS is relaxing. Very long trips, solo sessions, killing NPCs, taking care of the ship.

And oh, if the title of the game was a perfect description of it, not a single player in the game would ever die. It's Sea of Thieves, not Sea of Grave Robbers, right?

All Rare has to do is change the servers so one can select private, or open to anyone. They don't need to change the game. You would be able to play alone, play with just friends, or play with anyone. Really simple fix that would get tons of more people buying and playing the game. The people playing the game solo that want to PvP would still be able to in a open server. I have about 20-30 hours into SoT and have never had a chest stolen, but I have to be constantly looking over my shoulder. This isn't fun at all, really can't explore a large island. Trying to balance exploration the way the game is now is impossible.

@jwspeed
It is possible. And again this is segregation and not balance. Pve servers have been addressed numerous times. Its not happening. At least not anytime in the forseeable future

@nwo-azcrack said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:

@jwspeed
It is possible. And again this is segregation and not balance. Pve servers have been addressed numerous times. Its not happening. At least not anytime in the forseeable future

If you actually read his comment you'll realize it doesn't mention PVE servers at all. Not a single time.

Also, segregation is such a sensationalist word to use here. The segregation of what, players that are ok with the game as it is now and players that tried the game and stopped playing because of how stressful it is? VERY tired of seeing used over and over when talking about CHOICE.