At one point, I started to think that maybe there was some kinda of "Karma" built in to the core of the game, and unless you were the type of player that gets a kick out of ruining someone else's experience, you are less likely to run into trouble. I personally roll with the, "Don't Start None, wont be none" mentality. But anyways, back to the built in Karma thing. I wonder if this is a thing, or if it should be. Last night, i was done playing for the night, and wondered if i could find someone to help me pop the achievement where you race another player without firing on each other. I had a random join my game, and he helped me by allowing my boat to stay out of a threatening range, and getting close to the other players to ask if they would be interested in working with us on this. I put my cannons in the air, pulled out my lantern, and got close to them, and they did help us out. Made a friend with a similar play style to mine. The current state of the game makes you paranoid, and distrustful. I will be honest, i wonder if I would have been as trusting if I had been in my new friends shoes. So i'm not sure if separate servers are the answer. My crew and I have talked about Bounties you could place on trolls, and griefers, that would make those people a target wherever they go. Maybe some way of indicating friendly players, vs killers. Maybe a skull over their head for a time after they initiate an attack on someone? I am also sure most of these ideas would have someone that finds a way around them to use them to be more nefarious.
[Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4
@khaleesibot PvP is not fun for me and a huge portion of the community. I love the games exploration and completing voyages. I love being able to relax, sail the seas and play my hurdy-gurdy. However being forced into an inconsistent PvP situation every time I spawn or when I try to turn loot in at outposts, is sucking the fun right out of the game.
The Sea of Thieves game description on the Microsoft store says this about the online,
Xbox Live online multiplayer (2-4)
Xbox Live online co-op (2-4)
When I read this before downloading the game, I said, "Well this game has co-op and or multiplayer. This game should be fun to play with my friends and go out and explore the seas." No where does it say,
"Xbox Live online multiplayer only - solo or with friends (2-4)"See the point I'm trying to make. I'm almost about to quit playing because I play Sea of Thieves for the fun co-op with friends, not the inconsistent PvP. You wanted to hear our thoughts on the balance between exploration and combat. Well I believe the PvP takes the fun out of exploration. Why would I play with friends exploring and completing voyages for hours, just to have that work go to waste, taken away by invulnerable players who can't be defeated? As a matter of fact, why even play Sea of Thieves?
I hope this has been mentioned already but you REALLY need to either massively reduce or fully remove knockback from cannonballs. The last 3 times I have played (I usually play with one solid buddy of mine) Twice we have consistently lost fights to galleons because the ship has one or two holes in and I get knocked from the middle of the sloop 20 meters off the ship, unable to get back on board before we sink.
This makes Sloop versus Galleon combat even more unfair than it is already numerically. My teammate is usually using our gunpowder/trying to board and time after time while I am maneuvering the ship to strafe them I get knocked off.
It's literally making us not want to play, we can out shoot, out maneuver, out fight most crews, but are losing fights because cannonballs knock you 30 meters off the ship. Just ridiculous.
A good way of balancing the issue with skull fort and the inevitable abuse of a ship's default resource grant is to introduce re-instancing. While combat and PvP is enjoyable to me, having to fight the same people more than 5 times in a row, especially when they keep returning with free resources, is a little bit ridiculous. I also don't find it challenging to be fighting the same group of people that keep sinking and combat becomes less challenging, less fun and incredibly repetitive, not to mention unfair as the current occupying crew is punished for staying alive for too long, having their resources dwindle against an enemy who has unlimited resources. I think if your ship sinks, your crew should be re-instanced to another server.
@shadesreign
I got knocked off my sloop yesterday by a cannon and still came back and won. If you stop getting hit, this problem goes away@nwo-azcrack Really? Stop getting hit? Your solution is for me to just never pvp then? Seems legit. I have been knocked off and gotten back on before too. The problem is Galleon crews don't have to worry about that at all, as it is far more difficult for them to be knocked off.
But your reply is hilarious in so many ways. Why, should my sloop gun be less effective at knocking someone off a ship, than their Galleon guns hitting a sloop? If the knockback was reduced or removed, how would that effect gameplay negatively? It wouldn't. They'd have to sink me by killing me and putting holes in my ship, you know, the way the game is supposed to be played.
Please, think before you make a statement.
@shadesreign your'e saying the game should be redesigned because you and your friend want to fight galleons in your sloop and win? Are you daft? Your'e supposed to have a tough go at it. Its not meant to be fair for a sloop to fight a galleon. If you are not trolling and are serious about this then I suggest you find yourself another game to play, one that's more forgiving..... try Uno.
@los-cubano I just get annoyed by the PvP'ers who ride around in their basic ships in their basic outfits because they got no coin and when we sink their basic ship with our beautiful galleon while looking fabulous they get all offended by it and have to keep coming back.
I dont mind people who want to PvP but its like take a loss and hit the road or I guess in this case the waves.
Hi, I think it may be a good idea to allow people on merchant voyages to pick up more crates after they have been stolen/ sunk to the bottom of the ocean once your ship has been sunk as it made my voyage impossible to finish after my ship was sunk as I have yet to find a snake basket as random loot. I also feel having a way on the xbox to say 'Let's Race' and 'Here take my treasure chests' without a mic would be useful
@umbrae-wolf said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:
Hi, I think it may be a good idea to allow people on merchant voyages to pick up more crates after they have been stolen/ sunk to the bottom of the ocean once your ship has been sunk as it made my voyage impossible to finish after my ship was sunk as I have yet to find a snake basket as random loot. I also feel having a way on the xbox to say 'Let's Race' and 'Here take my treasure chests' without a mic would be useful
plug in a keyboard or chatpad or w/e and type the message out.
I report here what i wrote in another post:
There are three archipelagos in this game, let's use them to create three factions.
You spown in a random archipelago but with a sort of balance mechanic.
Each ship will show off the flag of the archipelago in which it begins.
Selling the treasures in the outposts of the other archipelagos will pay less.
If you sink or attack a ship from your own archipelago, you will no longer be able to sell the treasures in your outposts
The treasures recovered from an "enemy" archipelago will be worth more.@kaetten wrots:
@morotok what happends when they extend the world?Perhaps we can consider the new world as a foreigner for all the factions
This is another equally cringeworthy reply. Cannonball knockback reduction is hardly changing the game design is it? It is completely unnecessary as a mechanic. The toughness is supposed to come from us being outnumbered and outgunned, not from me being knocked 30 feet off my ship randomly. That is challenge enough. To sink a Galleon while playing in a sloop is hard enough already. We have to consistently kill a larger crew than we have, and damage their ship enough to sink it. Why should cannonball knockback even be a factor at all?
@guybrushcrpwood said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:
Why not utilise the games creative tools to incentivise cooperation (or at least friendliness)?
For instance ... Every ship has flags, and every player has a spy glass.
Allows players to join one outpost faction ... and whenever they hand in booty at that particular faction outpost, flying the faction flag, they get a significant gold increase.
If a player engages with another player of the same faction, they suddenly acquire a pirate flag that remains for one hour - thereby negating extra profits.
It creates a reward for cooperating with nearby players of the same fanction, and ensures that the seas still remains dangerous.
Maybe that friendly merchant vessel fancies your loot more than the extra profits? Or maybe that galleon in the distance isn't of your faction. Or maybe, you sail up close ... realise you both have something to gain by playing nice, and you sail your separate ways - or even help each other out.
I think this is a great idea. I would love to see this implemented. It would be cool to be a part of a faction based on the outpost of your choice. Then you could team up with other members of your faction and take on the other Outpost factions together. It would make people want to work together a bit more. Take away the focus on shoot first ask later and turn it into team up, shoot first, ask later. Maybe it could also open up the possibility of having quests that are garnered for a larger group of people to work together towards a common goal.
@amerikkletus Yep, that's the aim. I think it's important, though, not to over emphasise the role of factions.
As in, I don't think it's a good idea to stop players of the same faction attacking each other. And I also think it's a good idea to only have one faction per outpost - to ensure that there's still plenty of threats lurking about.
I just think it would be nice if, every once in a while, a ship turns out to be of the same faction, and also decides not to attack you - and in return, you both actually make an extra profit from being nice to each other.
@zrovom said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:
@khaleesibot PvP is not fun for me and a huge portion of the community. I love the games exploration and completing voyages. I love being able to relax, sail the seas and play my hurdy-gurdy. However being forced into an inconsistent PvP situation every time I spawn or when I try to turn loot in at outposts, is sucking the fun right out of the game.
The Sea of Thieves game description on the Microsoft store says this about the online,
Xbox Live online multiplayer (2-4)
Xbox Live online co-op (2-4)
When I read this before downloading the game, I said, "Well this game has co-op and or multiplayer. This game should be fun to play with my friends and go out and explore the seas." No where does it say,
"Xbox Live online multiplayer only - solo or with friends (2-4)"See the point I'm trying to make. I'm almost about to quit playing because I play Sea of Thieves for the fun co-op with friends, not the inconsistent PvP. You wanted to hear our thoughts on the balance between exploration and combat. Well I believe the PvP takes the fun out of exploration. Why would I play with friends exploring and completing voyages for hours, just to have that work go to waste, taken away by invulnerable players who can't be defeated? As a matter of fact, why even play Sea of Thieves?
This is actually a great point about the game description on Microsoft store. This is clearly wrong and needs to be updated ASAP. I'm not sure how many people are in the same boat as you regarding purchasing the game after looking at the description, but I feel this is a clear error on Microsoft's part and needs to be rectified somehow (reimbursing players?).
Cross play needs a option to turn it off and on. Console players do not have the speed advantage as PC. It’s blatantly obvious when you shoot a player threes times to the face and they’re still not dead. Nor can you keep up with their pace to our run or keep from griefing. The balance is needed desperately! :(
not to mention unfair as the current occupying crew is punished for staying alive for too long, having their resources dwindle against an enemy who has unlimited resources. I think if your ship sinks, your crew should be re-instanced to another server.
I completely agree. Yes, this should be done. Wonderful suggestion.
@shadesreign said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:
This is another equally cringeworthy reply. Cannonball knockback reduction is hardly changing the game design is it? It is completely unnecessary as a mechanic. The toughness is supposed to come from us being outnumbered and outgunned, not from me being knocked 30 feet off my ship randomly. That is challenge enough. To sink a Galleon while playing in a sloop is hard enough already. We have to consistently kill a larger crew than we have, and damage their ship enough to sink it. Why should cannonball knockback even be a factor at all?
Fear not my dude, I also share your opinion. Knockbacks in general are pretty damn extreme. Just look at the weapons, getting shot with a pistol for example throws your several meters away. Completely unnecessary mechanic, which is just a massive source of rng. People who enjoy rng mechanics, are in general casual players, which in turn suffer from the Dunning Kruger effect. This is made especially apparent in SoT, because the game is so extremely casual to begin with.
@itsjustkillah said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:
Cross play needs a option to turn it off and on. Console players do not have the speed advantage as PC. It’s blatantly obvious when you shoot a player threes times to the face and they’re still not dead. Nor can you keep up with their pace to our run or keep from griefing. The balance is needed desperately! :(
There's actually a crossplay megathread, this is about the balance between exploration and combat.
I don't see Rare abandoning its vision, and I hope it doesn't. I love the deception, fear, and distrust around me in the game; it makes those few friendly encounters so much more rewarding.
I have no problems with the current balance between exploration/voyaging/pvp. However, I don't play the game like it is single player even though I do mostly solo sloop. For instance, I don't spend more than 10 minutes on an island. I always try to keep my ship in plain sight. I scan the horizon as often as possible. I never complete more than 3-5 quests without visiting an outpost to drop off my cargo. I never go near a galleon. I sail into storms, towards an active skull fort, or other ships when being chased by others. I check for mermaids around outposts to make sure nobody is camping. All-in-all, I play cautiously and understand the risks. The times someone has stolen something from me, it has always been my fault: too trusting of others, too careless, or too lazy.
That being said, semi-safe zones within the game world seem like the most appropriate compromise--places where true pirates will have more difficulty attacking those who just want to engage in trade or explore.
I already wrote up an idea about a safe harbor for PvEers where attacking other players makes you a target for a large fortress guarding the area. That way, PvEers can sail about in the shadow of the fortress knowing that if they are attacked, they will at least have some support from NPC cannon fire. This should be a region of the map where new or casual players can learn the ropes before sailing into the Sea of Thieves.
In sum: Distrust and fear are what keep me engaged. Successful solo slipping requires skill, smarts, and hard work. Nevertheless, the game needs a semi-safe harbor to get new players or casual players interested.
Just wanna let Rare know that it's distrust, unpredictability, being constantly in danger, the stress of it all... that's what is keeping me from enjoying the game, and from playing it. And I'm not the only one.
I was attracted to the idea of sailing, of digging treasures, of cooperating with other players to fight skeletons and Sea creatures... I wanted to explore the world of Sea of Theives and learn its lore and secrets. And I'm not the only one.
And no, this always-about-to-get-ganked thing is not something you learn to "appreciate". No, it doesn't go away if you "git gud". You just can't force this into people, you can't make people enjoy something they just don't. And if Sea of Thieves REALLY is about this and everything else is just added flavour to it, then they can leave behind their hypocrite message of inclusivity, of a game for all.
Since the update the servers have been noticeably fuller.
Too full in my opinion. Last night we had 5 Galleons all in view of each other in a small corner of the map.
No way to get any type of voyage done in that environment. When we did engage in combat I lagged so hard that my screen froze and was booted to dash board. Two more crew members also expressed detrimental lag.
Also yesterday I was running a slooop and encountered 3 other sloops at the same island. At least 2 of them (plus myself) had a voyage there.
I could fill my word limit with examples like these. But the new “server balance” is a little too heavy. It causes performance issues, and a terrible game environment.
Please explore lowering the max player / max ship per server count. As well as the voyage algorithm that has voyagers cross paths.
@navarita
No one is forcing anything on you. Sounds like you are trying to force Rare to change their game.@navarita - I understand. Beyond separating players on PvE and PvP servers or peaceful mode (which both go against the core "shared experience" goal the developers have in mind), what would you suggest?
I think it is pretty clear a lot of people want more benefits to PvE (myself included), but that doesn't mean the developers should separate PvE and PvP. The developers have a clear goal with this game: to make the Sea of Thieves a shared world for all types of players. Together, we should be trying to come up with ways to balance exploration and combat rather than segregating the two.
• Is a semi-safe region of the world something you could enjoy, where NPCs will aid you if fired upon?
• How about faster sloops so you can get away from galleons more easily?
• How about an ability to form an official alliance with other crews so you have backup in fights?
• How about a docking fee for players who camp at outposts?
• What about a bounty system that turns aggressive players into lucrative targets for everyone else?This game is in its infancy and we have a chance to mold it into something we can all enjoy together. I suggest we use this opportunity to do just that.
@nwo-azcrack said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:
@navarita
No one is forcing anything on you. Sounds like you are trying to force Rare to change their game.Games change, games evolve. Constantly.
@choicesponge said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:
@navarita - I understand. Beyond separating players on PvE and PvP servers or peaceful mode (which both go against the core "shared experience" goal the developers have in mind), what would you suggest?
I think it is pretty clear a lot of people want more benefits to PvE (myself included), but that doesn't mean the developers should separate PvE and PvP. The developers have a clear goal with this game: to make the Sea of Thieves a shared world for all types of players. Together, we should be trying to come up with ways to balance exploration and combat rather than segregating the two.
• Is a semi-safe region of the world something you could enjoy, where NPCs will aid you if fired upon?
• How about faster sloops so you can get away from galleons more easily?
• How about an ability to form an official alliance with other crews so you have backup in fights?
• How about a docking fee for players who camp at outposts?
• What about a bounty system that turns aggressive players into lucrative targets for everyone else?This game is in its infancy and we have a chance to mold it into something we can all enjoy together. I suggest we use this opportunity to do just that.
Yes, I admire their utopian vision, but the reality is without any sort of in-game rule, that vision is never going to be realized. If you want to make a game all types of players will enjoy, then the game needs to be designed in such a way. Right now, the game is designed to be essentially an unwelcoming jungle where you have to be paranoid and watch your surroundings all the time.
@choicesponge said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:
• Is a semi-safe region of the world something you could enjoy, where NPCs will aid you if fired upon?
This would be open to abuse. Players would camp on the outskirts & wait for 'victims' to leave. On the flipside, players loaded with loot would just camp there in relative safety. Both would harm the game more than helping. Rare have always been pretty adamant on the 'no safezones' stance.
• How about faster sloops so you can get away from galleons more easily?
Those experienced solo / duo sloopists would then get a huge buff & would be taking on & sinking galleons left, right & centre. You can already get away from galleons by using the sloops advantages (sailing into the wind, manoeuvrability etc)
• How about an ability to form an official alliance with other crews so you have backup in fights?
What's to stop aggressive crews doing this & controlling the whole server?
• How about a docking fee for players who camp at outposts?
How would the game differentiate between camping & cashing in a lot/exploring/having fun/restocking etc?
• What about a bounty system that turns aggressive players into lucrative targets for everyone else?
This would just make aggressive PVPers even worse, as they would want the bounty on them! So they would be more aggressive to get the bounty in the hope of attracting even more pvp.
Sorry for replying negatively to your suggestions, but they have all been brought up before & as i pointed out, there would be problems attached to all of them.
@choicesponge Well, the first thing is to actually make people want to explore, give them a reason to do so. I've said this before, but the game lacks any content. The world is empty and dead. Add AI pirates, ships, Navy, merchant ships that can be looted, etc.
Add some sort of consequence to PvP (I don't think a bounty system is good as others have mentioned it creates more aggressive PvPers). Right now the game encourages going around and shooting everyone up on sight. There's no risk involved for the attacker. There needs to be some real consequence, what kind of consequence? I don't know, that is for Rare to figure out.
There really needs to be actual game rules implemented, and no I'm not talking about the Pirate Code, I mean actual technical things within the game. A safe zone would be a good example.
@greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 4:
@choicesponge Well, the first thing is to actually make people want to explore, give them a reason to do so. I've said this before, but the game lacks any content. The world is empty and dead. Add AI pirates, ships, Navy, merchant ships that can be looted, etc.
Add some sort of consequence to PvP (I don't think a bounty system is good as others have mentioned it creates more aggressive PvPers). Right now the game encourages going around and shooting everyone up on sight. There's no risk involved for the attacker. There needs to be some real consequence, what kind of consequence? I don't know, that is for Rare to figure out.
There really needs to be actual game rules implemented, and no I'm not talking about the Pirate Code, I mean actual technical things within the game. A safe zone would be a good example.
The bounty system isn't going to work as well as people think. If people are aggressive it will just attract more aggressive people into an area... and you the PvEer will just be collateral damage at some point. The skull forts already do a better job at gaining the attention of all the aggressive players. More of that.
I also don't think in a game about pirating and fighting over loot there should be a penalty for doing just that. It's like penalizing jumping in Mario because it makes it too easy to get across gaps. The consequence is sinking and losing all the loot or potential loot, being tossed onto a different part of the map and having to start a voyage again. Any more and PvP will break. They just need to drop supplies so the defender can't be worn down.
I really just think you don't like the game. There is plenty of content, it's structured in such a way that gets people to island hop, be in the vicinity of other players and have to make a decision on what to do about them... while collecting loot and dropping it off. It's a pretty simple premise but works well for those that like sailing/looting/pirating.
