Considering that unlocks in this game are solely cosmetic, as they want individual skill and seamanship to decide conflicts, not arbitrary numbers and levels, isn't having cosmetic only Microtransactions pay to win? in a game where the only unlocks are cosmetic?
EDIT: This thread is NOT about using real currency to gain a combat advantage over an opponent. This is a discussion on what Winning is in SoT and how Microtransactions effect that journey.
@djm-xr07 I see what you are saying, and I would say - not really?
The unlocks don't give another player an advantage over me.
That said, we really don't know what, if any, microtransactions there are going to be yet.
Ahoy there @DJM-XR07
I would suggest taking a look at the following thread where we have had a similar discussion just today.
https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/24967/microtransactions/
I personally feel it feels less pay to win, however, I would like the purchasable items not to be able to be collected through normal game progression.
@djm-xr07,
i can't say I agree, if the "unlocks" are cosmetic, then what benefit does the player get other than aesthetic value. It's not a microtransaction either, you didn't pay anything to unlock the cosmetic item but completed a quest or used in game currency to get something.
@erikinthebakery @AgentSalvo It's true they don't give you a combat advantage over another player, but if the only real progression in SoT is cosmetic, wouldn't it be lame if you had played 200 more hours than someone else, were much more skilled, but they had cooler loot than you? which if there is purchasable cosmetics, itll probably have to be cooler than free items to compel people to buy it. that doesnt really put a good taste in my mouth
@djm-xr07,
other than the Black Dog pack in the pre-order, I'm not aware of any other purchasable cosmetic items, please correct me if I'm wrong and provide e.g.
Unlocks and stuff you can buy arent soley cosmetic. People are getting confused by what is meant by horizontal progression.
You can buy weapons, but they have advantages and disadvantages. Like the blunderbuss for example and the upcoming scoped musket thing that was featured in the recent trailer. Youll have to buy them, and (I am speculating here) youll have to choose which one you want to equip
@agentsalvo This is essentially speculation, but if there is to be DLC support for this game, they'll either have to have microtransactions (hats, pants, etc.) or full on 20 dollar DLC packages, and im pretty sure they are very much against splitting up the player base. so i think it's relatively safe to assume there will be some form of cosmetic dlc microtransactions in game, you can double check the december 14 mixer stream on progression for validity, they briefly touched upon paid content there
You'll have to purchase them with in-game currency, most likely.
What you will be able to purchase with Hard-Earned(for most of us) RL Currency will be Cosmetics, as far as we know.
@djm-xr07 $20 DLC doesn't have to split the player base.
@timeoftheyear said in DLCs:
Rare already has the right idea with allowing anyone to go on a mission as long as one person has a high enough reputation to buy it. They just need to apply the same logic to DLC content.
Add new factions with unique types of quests. Allow everyone to go on the quests and gain reputation with the faction but only allow people who've bought the DLC to purchase the maps and cosmetics. Anyone can go on those quests as long as they are playing with someone who has the DLC so it won't split the community.
@timeoftheyear Especially if we want an ever-expanding and changing world...
I would rather we fund that somehow rather let the game become stagnant a year on.
@siriondb said in Pay to Win in SoT:
You'll have to purchase them with in-game currency, most likely.
What you will be able to purchase with Hard-Earned(for most of us) RL Currency will be Cosmetics, as far as we know.
I was just clarifying the part of the original post "Considering that unlocks in this game are solely cosmetic", which they are not, (Mod Edit) :)
@musicmee said in Pay to Win in SoT:
This is why I hope the purchases are directly for items rather than gold, then items. This would stop players from purchasing stuff with gold they have just purchased via microtransactions.
See im the other way round. Id rather everything was unlockable by gold or just by playing the game.
As long as the game isnt too grindy, id tolerate microtransactions as a timesaver for gold, if that's how theyd implement it, if at all. Microtransaction, even though im expecting it, is speculation :p
No, it is not. Pay to win is used when you spend real money to gain an in game advantage. Cosmetics give no such advantage. Also, the progression talked about is the cosmetic choices you get through progressing in one of the guilds. As you rank up, they will offer new cosmetic choices that you can unlock through gold. The microtransactions will more than likely be outfits or ship looks that you won't get through these guilds.
Game development costs a lot nowadays, if the developers wish to sell cosmetic add-ons to supplement the revenue and still allow game resale for other industry members, then let them do it.
As long as they're pure aesthetic, and don't affect gameplay, let them be creative within constraints. The best innovation is created by limitations, and the best use for micro transactions would be truly desirable skins or cool graphical effects that do not impart favor to financially advanced opponents and upset/imbalance the community.
@timeoftheyear Interesting idea, and i'd totally be in support of that as long as they found a way of expanding the physical map as well. but it still would break the player base up slightly, as one of your party still needs to buy it, solo and duo crews may have a hard time of enjoying the new content
and @uvg-reign, my mistake, I ment the "all unlocks cosmetic" as more of the over arching progression in sea of thieves. to my best knowledge there won't be multiple different types of blunderbuss, one better than the other type of thing. it seems you play this game for the experience, leveling up in factions, and unlocking cosmetic items. So a large part of this games progression is the cosmetic unlocks, and thats why i made this post
@uvg-reign when a game allows you to pay money to skip content, what they are saying is that the experience is so bad that not doing it is worth money. To me it shows a complete lack of belief in what you have created and it tells me that the creator was just in it for the money.
Being able to buy things that are only purchaseable with real money is one thing, but if I spend a week to earn an item and someone else drops money and buys that item than my grinding was a waste of time. The point of putting in so much work is to have something other people don't, to be able to say "look what I earned."
I wouldn't run in a marathon where people could pay for a trophy instead of racing, and I won't play a game where people can pay instead of playing.
@timeoftheyear said in Pay to Win in SoT:
Being able to buy things that are only purchaseable with real money is one thing, but if I spend a week to earn an item and someone else drops money and buys that item than my grinding was a waste of time.
my point plays into this concept, what if the cosmetic that is only purchasable with real money is much cooler than anything you can unlock in game through grind and effort? then it doesnt matter how hard you try in the game if someone else drops 20 bucks and looks way better than you do, even though you've put in much more time and effort.
so essentially it is a game where you can pay instead of playing, when cosmetics can be purchased and, simultaneously cosmetics are a large part of progressing in SoT it clearly isnt that fair
@agentsalvo there is the SOT limited edition Xbox controller that comes with in game ferrymen clothing set
@djm-xr07 said in Pay to Win in SoT:
@timeoftheyear Interesting idea, and i'd totally be in support of that as long as they found a way of expanding the physical map as well. but it still would break the player base up slightly, as one of your party still needs to buy it, solo and duo crews may have a hard time of enjoying the new content
What you are describing isn't splitting the player base. Splitting the player base refers to DLC making it so that players can't matchmake together, increasing queue times and making the community seem smaller.
If a two man crew is too stubborn to buy the dlc or matchmake with randoms, then there isn't much you can do about that. They would also still be able to go to any new islands and would still he able to steal whatever the new factions reward was and turn it in. The only thing they couldn't do is buy the maps and cosmetics.
@timeoftheyear it all depends if they choose to allow players to sail in the new portions of the map doesnt it? and if they cant sail in the areas of the map, then they wouldnt really be able to matchmake with others who are in the new areas of said map. but this is all water under the bridge essentially because we dont know if a map expansion is a thing they are even considering at this time, tho fingers crossed because that would be neat
@timeoftheyear Thats a fair point
@DJM-XR07 also a fair point
At the same time, we dont know what their approach will be
@djm-xr07 said in Pay to Win in SoT:
@timeoftheyear it all depends if they choose to allow players to sail in the new portions of the map doesnt it? and if they cant sail in the areas of the map, then they wouldnt really be able to matchmake with others who are in the new areas of said map.
You're kind of missing the point. I'm saying that there is a way to have paid DLC without splitting the player base. If they don't do it that way, then of course it won't have the same result.
I've been commenting in the thread but haven't given my thoughts on the original question.
If there are purchaseable cosmetics that far outshine everything in game I think it will be a problem but I don't think "pay 2 win" is the right term for it.
I also think they would have to be blatantly selling out to overcome the advantage that cosmetics earned in game have. People like to have a look that others can't equally replicate. A hat that you got by grinding for hours will always be worth more than one that was bought because it's easy for people to go "oh yeah, I also spent five dollars on that hat" but it's not as easy for people to say "oh yeah, I've also killed the Kraken 20 times"
That said, giving the items exclusive emotes or particle effects would be a way to close that gap if no in game items also had them.
@uvg-reign - Information related to the Tech Alpha are covered by the NDA and should only be discussed in the Tech Alpha section of the forum.
@erikinthebakery I'm going to wait until the game is out before i even consider buying it. I'm sick of being ripped off buy this micro transaction stuff. I have a alot of friends that would like to play this game but worry about the same problem we all have. If i buy the game will it be nickel and dime time. Am i getting a full game or just a piece of one? Then after the launch will it drop in price to half of what it was because of this? NOT going to let this happen to us again!
@djm-xr07 by definition 'pay to win' means you can buy in-game items that are statistically better. Purely cosmetic items (again, by definition) do not do this, therefore it is not 'pay to win'.
On that note, what microtransactions? Yeah I'm new to the game, but I haven't seen anything about micro transactions in game.
