[MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback

@needsmokes said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

@cotu42

Show me a Xbox 360 title that was thriving a year after the Xbox one was launched.. You have to face reality, Rare already have most of their top devs working on new IPs.
All Microsoft studios teams are expected to bring out new titles ever 2-3 years now.

Yet this is a crossplay title, which means that you have the backing of the PC community and we expect them to work on the systems to keep up with technology. Unlike the xbox ecosystem, we have a modular one that not only has backward compatibility but has the ability to make it worth the investment of updating games by multiple years of support.

You want a clear example of this, lets take a different one than the obvious choice World of Warcraft (which just re-invested in the original one Vanilla by mere player demand a game from 2004). Lets take an even older game Age of Empires II, which came out at the end of september 1999 and received ongoing support by the company that published it, Microsoft - image the same guys that own this game.

Not only has it survived the passage of time, it has received multiple updates in the forms of the HD edition and now Definitive Edition to have full 4k graphics support to keep up with the technology of today. These are not new editions in the line of AoE, as we also have those. This is just the support for the 2nd Edition in the IP. There is still support for AoEIII as well, just not as big as the 2nd Edition as it has less people playing it.

You keep forgetting that PC are not the only ones getting perks out of this deal, like a larger controller player base to play with. Xbox also gets the perks of the expectations of PC players regarding support, development and longevity.

We have many games that are decades old and still under development, still getting monthly updates. We already know how it is to get a game as a service over a finished product.

You are used to dealing with generation cycles, while we don't have that issue. Our machines are purely based on our ability to keep up and we expect our games to do evolve with us in the multiplayer scene. We have a whole section of games in pre-release status we can buy with a discount and play for 20 years...

Sea of Thieves is a service and as long as there enough people to support it, the service will be continued. Welcome to the crossplay universe, where PC standards have an influence on your game.

I posted a thread last year https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/100840/what-are-you-working-on-rare-new-open-world-game before Rare's new title Everwild was even announced, only for many to dismiss this and believe Rare are firmly focused solely on SOT.

Did you ever think that Rare would put all their eggs in this one basket? Ofcourse they are going to have teams work on new IP ideas, how else are they going to continue living after Sea of Thieves ends?

The seas will have a life span, this could be 5 years, 10 years, 20 years.... but as you point out below!

Does anyone remember Joe Neate telling us that they will only continue to fund sea of thieves if it is commercially viable to do so?

Yes and they have people that will not swap generations, as they upgrade their hardware and will never stop being able to play the game as their OS will always support it: Windows 10. How can I guarentee this well it has mandatory updates and no Windows 11 will be coming out stated by Microsoft! However, what ever they do with Windows 10 is up to them and we must update with them (which is why we have a pretty big number of people still using Windows 7).

Does that sound like a game that will be around for 10 years?

Yes, to me Sea of Thieves is a game that can easily last 10 years. If the xbox community leaves by masses, I might request Rare to put it on Steam to keep it profitable if they hadn't already.

We are moving into a new generation and this game won't be.
That is my opinion. Not baiting! Just giving my opinion.

You are moving to the next generation and we PC players are going to ensure that if they want to keep making profit more profit by having you also play... you will receive technical support to progress with us. This is a service, not a finished product. Instead of charging for updates, they will be charging us in a more common practice now a days; micro-transactions. Making it even better for anyone that bought the game, as no further costs are required for the time being and for a more extended time period.

Do not underestimate Rare's commitment to the Seas. They are a triple A developer studio, unlike indies they have the resources to support us and create a new IP.

This whole it isn't worth their time, let Rare decide that and if they really think it is worth it... they will invest.

If you were truely worried about the player population size dwindling to the point the game stops, you would be against opting out just based on the social implications. Opting out reduces the amount of friendships made over the total player base, as you have people that will never meet. Therefore providing less reason to stick around as many people will stop playing if everyone they know stops. If xbox numbers are going to plummet, wouldn't it be nice if you had some PC friends that still play the game to tag along, instead of going solo?

World of Tanks is still surviving on Xbox one and plays along side with the 360 brethren. Hope Rare takes a page from there book and continues Sea of Thieves like war gaming did with World of Tanks.

@needsmokes said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

@cotu42

I'm not worried one bit about a population decrease, this has been one of my favourite games of this generation. I also first posted about opt out probably a few days after the game launched, not my fault it took Rare so long to finally admit their failures to fix the desparity and stop the cheating taking place, the game must have been suffering badly on Xbox for this to finally happen. But I will continue to enjoy the game whilst I can, solo if I have too, I love solo slooping.
I have been with Xbox since they first launched, seen generations come and go, never really seen a game successfully work on two generations at the same time.
Ever wondered why there has never been any content created for pirate legends to date? What would be the point?
This game is providing a stop gap service during this transition period, hence the monthly updates, something for Microsoft studio's to show off as new stuff arriving for Xbox one players, because there isn't much else planned before holiday 2020 that is first party exclusive.
This is of course all just my opinion, I might very well be totally wrong, I could also be right. Time will tell won't it.

Well, if you aren't here for the long haul... apparently you are swapping next gen, while we will remain. Let them now start development to provide the best experience on all platforms.

@realstyli yeah, I'm on controller 50% to 60% of the time too. So are a few people I sail with. It's just a better input for what you do 90% of the time in game, i.e. sailing, cannons, even the parkour. Elite controller, properly set up sensitivity and practice and I win most of my fights. I use M+K if I'm gonna be PvPing all night or in the arena, or when my controller needs a charge, or if I've just switched over from a FPS and cba finding out where I left the controller. There's no issue doing well with a controller. Most players you meet who actually want a fight are rubbish. The ones who are really good generally talk to you and stick to some sort of code.

Except for Xbox players.

They rarely talk, and when they do, you wish they hadn't, generally hyper aggressive, seem overly fond of crabsuits. I won't miss the majority of them.

The wholesome boats, family boats and brand new sailors are who I'll miss. It's really nice as a PL/A10 crusty old bilge rat to capture the magic of someone's first few voyages, or help a family/wholesome ship do something. Or spring a gilded voyage on an unexpecting crew who couldn't find their afts with both hooks and a map.

Ah well. It was good while it lasted. It'll never be the same again really. Those days are over, ended by the flip of a switch.

@boxcar-squidy said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

@realstyli yeah, I'm on controller 50% to 60% of the time too. So are a few people I sail with. It's just a better input for what you do 90% of the time in game, i.e. sailing, cannons, even the parkour. Elite controller, properly set up sensitivity and practice and I win most of my fights. I use M+K if I'm gonna be PvPing all night or in the arena, or when my controller needs a charge, or if I've just switched over from a FPS and cba finding out where I left the controller. There's no issue doing well with a controller. Most players you meet who actually want a fight are rubbish. The ones who are really good generally talk to you and stick to some sort of code.

Yep, I use an Elite as well, with just one paddle mapped to A. I set that up even before SoT, back when I played on Xbox One a lot, because A is typically jump in games.

Better not mention that too much though because maybe Elite players should be separated from normal controller players too! ;)

Except for Xbox players.

They rarely talk, and when they do, you wish they hadn't, generally hyper aggressive, seem overly fond of crabsuits. I won't miss the majority of them.

I've met some decent ones in game chat but the vast majority have been in parties, not talking and I actually find that a little dehumanising... both ways. If they can't hear me and I can't hear them that just removes any kind of proper interaction... until the inevitable trash talking Xbox Live message afterwards.

The wholesome boats, family boats and brand new sailors are who I'll miss. It's really nice as a PL/A10 crusty old bilge rat to capture the magic of someone's first few voyages, or help a family/wholesome ship do something. Or spring a gilded voyage on an unexpecting crew who couldn't find their afts with both hooks and a map.

I actually don't think that will go away, the family ones and the ones who are less in the loop with everything Sea of Thieves may not even know about the opt out option. Just from watching a few streamers in the last few days they seem to be running into (and helping out) a lot of kids who are on Xbox One. It's actually really wholesome to see.

@tak225 said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

@monkeyshishan well I would guess that input method match making on pc only is too low for them to consider yes it's only in modern warfare because of cross play which is a massive seller and also provides a opt out and I am pretty sure sea of thieves just does not have those player numbers for it to work especially as Xbox players make up the largest number of players on sea of thieves

Which is why we are asking for crossplay. Additionally if the population wouldn't support enough people for it, we would be merged with the unrestricted pool.

At least the game should offer it. You want preferences in the menu screen. Then treat us fairly and allow us to be able to select the preference of players in a crossplay environment in a crossplay game.

Since the opt out has gone live, these Xbox servers have become veritable gold mines. I’ve been robbing people blind left and right over the past 48 hours. Maybe opt out has given people a false sense of security? Idk but finding people to rob has never been easier!

@tak225 said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

@cotu42 I see what your asking for and in previous posts for months your arguement has always been to me that it was bad to split the community and now you want to split it further in the mixed pool and mouse and keyboard players on Xbox don't really get a choice the get automatically put into the mixed pool as they should of that's what you want controller preference on the mixed pool request it but the diffrnece with Xbox and controller opt out is we was the largest population in the game and alot of us left the game because of cross play and rare had to address it but amongst the pc community how many are actually controller users it's probably a low percentage and I only see you asking for this on here and twitter and all social media where as Xbox opt out I see many wanting and using all the above social media outlets to vent this frustration it's worth asking for but I don't know if there is enough pc players for that but I do think of that's what you want you should get it

I am not happy with the opt out. That is a fact and I made that clear that my preference is that Rare reverse the choice.

However one thing that is more important is that if Rare makes statements regarding game balance and that they are now offering a controller only input model combat system for the sake of balance. We are already split, at that point let everyone that chooses to so so experience the required controller on controller.

My best solution for this would be to remove the xbox tag, make both pools crossplay. That way we just add a couple of PC players to the controller only combat system, just like we add a couple of xbox players to the mixed world when they use mouse and keyboard. That is not acceptable by your standards and I have tried to compromise. Yet for the elite... it isn't worth the effort to invest in the public domain, their entitlement for being able to select their input based combat that they want. Why would Rare offer that service to others?

Rare stated they believe most people will still crossplay and so that means the crossplay controller servers should have enough support.

Fact is we do not know, you can speculate about it... yet if it isn't viable then just have Rare make that statement. You are anti PC, why should I trust your finger work based on nothing? If I state it is viable as I believe if it is with crossplay, you don't believe me either. Shouldn't we get clarity why crossplay didn't get input based combat?

To be honest, whether that makes one leave or not would be their own choice. As controller players on PC might leave because they are being treated differently. People leave games all the time, I don't see the big fuss about it and dont see why that gives you more entitlement to having the game changed than we do. To be fair many more people left the game because of the lack of legends content and the game being easier, no real challenges. It is why I play far less. Yet we haven't seen anything yet even with the Legends update... such a troll from Rare.

The most important part of my view is that people are treated fairly, equally and without the need to classify them based on tags that have no game balance impact. From my point having a brand as a requirement is just wrong, having a balance combat preference option that is supported guarded by it is just unacceptable. You can state it does affect balance, hardware boohoo... not as much as a extreme PC meeting a minimum spec PC and xbox has divisions among themselves as well to lesser degrees. So, no in the crossplay world your device choice is not something that we consider impacting game balance. It is on your end, not on the end of the developers to fix any issues you have with it.

If xbox players need their own servers, the choices they are given should be identical to the ones provided in the crossplay world. That is in my opinion and is far more important than the split up the player base.

That is why I fight for either of the tags to be removed. If combat needs controller only input, offer it to all. If it doesn't remove the controller only aspect from the opt out and just be over with it.

Just because it is better for their bottom line should not make it ok for them to ignore the fact that we were promised no compromise crossplay and the game being made as a service.

Controller input preference is supported, I am a customer and yet I do not get the same services the game has to offer. The controller only combat is only served to the elite, the xbox community that is given their VIP service. Does that sound like equal treatment of your customers? You can have your fancy room if they really want to give that to you, but the services should remain equal to the menu offered in the public domain of crossplay. The chef should not change the recipe based on who placed the order.

@realstyli said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

@boxcar-squidy said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

I actually don't think that will go away, the family ones and the ones who are less in the loop with everything Sea of Thieves may not even know about the opt out option. Just from watching a few streamers in the last few days they seem to be running into (and helping out) a lot of kids who are on Xbox One. It's actually really wholesome to see.

I hope you're right. It would kill the game for me if those moments were gone. That's what I play for. Those are the boats that get into the Pirate RP, those are the boats that will play along when I come up with a crazy scheme, those are the boats I'll sail over and rescue from a bully-brig full of dabbing crabmen. Those are the emergent moments that you can't get in any other game. If that dies then the game dies as far as I'm concerned, which is why I think Rare is playing a dangerous game messing with the core experience of SoT for me. Without so much as an explanation or official justification. Way to show your PC players they don't really matter to you Rare, nice one. It's like they don't even understand why we play their game.

Dear developers, please draw a small ship with slanting sails and put it in the store for $ 30

@boxcar-squidy

I was thinking about this and one thing to consider is that those types of players, the families with kids and such, are the ones more likely to be using the benefits of crossplay to play together. It's very rare they'd all be on the same platform. That's one of the best things about the game, that it allows people to play together like that.

@usualbarley8154 said

Dude, you need to understand that we have preference because we pay for it. Its not fancy, its not elite, its what we have purchased. The chef isnt changing the recipe based on whos ordering it. You're upset that you're not also given the steak dinner while only paying for the burger.

So those of us who've paid a lot of money on the Emporium and on merch should be allowed the steak then? Seeing as we've paid for the restaurant to stay open. ;)

@usualbarley8154

I was being fictitious for the sake of a joke because this had descended into a conversation of gatekeeping and walled gardens.

Xbox Live Gold subscriptions exist because Microsoft was losing money on hardware and it was an easy sell to make profits from gaming. On PC, they make that money from other means - such as buying Windows, third party licences, and advertising. Just because it's not explicitly an Xbox Live Gold sub, doesn't mean we are not supporting the ecosystem.

Some of us still pay for Xbox Live Gold and Game Pass on PC anyway as well.

@usualbarley8154 said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

@cotu42 said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

I am not happy with the opt out. That is a fact and I made that clear that my preference is that Rare reverse the choice.

You don't like the Xbox matchmaking preference? Ya dont say... You've only been here arguing for change for the sake of it since. Worrying about the kbm community on xbox, lol.

Your analogy at the end of this new rant about it is so flawed and honestly it comes off a little jealous. The elite? The VIP Xbox? The Chef?

The Chef is Rare, the elite customers are the xbox community as they get VIP treatment, what else is the xbox only environment?

Dude, you need to understand that we have preference because we pay for it. Its not fancy, its not elite, its what we have purchased. The chef isnt changing the recipe based on whos ordering it. You're upset that you're not also given the steak dinner while only paying for the burger.

I paid my dues, Windows 10, xbox controller, xbox dongle and was told I was going to be supported by the developers and Microsoft to use these without restrictions to my gameplay. They promised me full access to the game, why is the controller only game setting limited to xbox users? Xbox Gold Live? Then what is up with the Game Pass Ultimate that includes it and is purchased by anyone that wants it both on xbox and PC, this deal isn't limited to xbox.

*According to the xbox website:

"Enjoy all the benefits of Xbox Live Gold"

"Play on PC or Xbox One
Play PC games on your Windows 10 PC, console games on your Xbox One, or—with the Ultimate plan—both."

From the terms and conditions:
"Xbox Game Pass Ultimate includes Xbox Game Pass for Console, Xbox Game Pass for PC, Xbox Live Gold and additional benefits. "

I am sorry to inform you that Microsoft has expanded their xbox brand, your exclusive rights are no longer linked to your xbox console as clearly stated in their agreement that the pass and its benefits apply to both. They changed their minds and want to give me the same rights as you!

Therefore I think Rare and Microsoft are breaking their own terms and conditions for anyone that owns the Ultimate Game Pass at a minimum. Thanks for having me look that up as that expands my case against the xbox exclusive nature of the option.

The recipe of the xbox server did change compared to the general recipe from the normal servers the normal servers supports both supported input models while xbox servers only supports one. The choice of input isn't based on platform, both support either preference of input.

Not sure if you understand that if you change ingredients that you change the recipe. Seemed like an easy analogy to understand.

Also, not sure how a xbox is a steak while the better performance of the PC is a burger. Must be made from a darn good steak to be giving the better meal.

@peteloaf777 said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

[mod edited]

Except it's not and your post is clearly designed to bait other community members.
Thanks for your input to the thread, really helpful.

@captgraykid said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

Just relax bro, take some time and research better strategies to combat the PC SoT's game mode. Don't worry, practice makes perfect, you will be able to hang eventually.

Why could Xbox players not do this then? Why did they need opt-out if they could just "research better strategies to combat the PC SoT's game mode"?

Without realising, you've also reinforced the fact that opt-out wasn't needed. It's becoming quite a common theme now.

@usualbarley8154 said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

@cotu42

Oh man, all that and you're still missing the point. In no way are MS or Rare breaking terms/conditions. They have people who are paid a lot of money to ensure they dont.

How does that make you require a different game experience that is not the equivalent of the crossplay environment, but only with you xbox community.

I understand your point, but you are not making sense or consistent argument. You are the one that is denying xbox players from joining their paid for privileges, just because they invested more money to play with their supported input preference. Isn't the point they paid for it.

I'm sorry but what you're not getting is that paying for live gold via game pass confers no benefit to playing on your PC. It doesn't make it equal to playing on Xbox. The wording you site just means that you can play online and enjoy the benefits of xbox live gold on your console because your live gold is paid.

Where did it state on my console? To be exact it was listed after the rights for PC. They state on BOTH, nowhere exceptions are stated and the game is playable on BOTH and if it is about paying the premium price for access that is exactly what the Ultimate Game Pass does. PAY for all the benefits of, Xbox Game Pass, PC Game Pass, Xbox Gold and more.

So congrats, you have exactly the same rights and treatment as us Console mains and everything is fair. Your choosing not to take advantage of it is on you, not MS/Rare.

No, they are denying me the access on my supposed to be supported device.

You are not consistent in your arguments, you state pay for gold! Ultimate Game Pass gives that, you state you pay more than me... while you pay Rare just as much as me for their game.

You pay Microsoft more? Are you sure? Because to me it looks like you went for the monthly payment plan instead of the one installment option. Sure it is a higher initial cost, but comes with a discount.

@jofjjay said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

@peteloaf777 If I was good because I was annihilating Xbox players which were getting destroyed by my PC advantage, then explain to me how I am still winning just as many battles as before opt-out?

Because nothing has changed and the crossplay servers are still full?

@captgraykid said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

@cotu42 you have over complicated policies.

You have full access to xbox games.
Just not the players. Any player can block you at anytime, insuring that they don't have to play with you. See, that's also a players right.

Yes and I am giving those players their right to execute that. Why is my right to do the same denied? I am unable to indicate whether I want to meet mouse and keyboard users while you are given that option?

Should I be ok that you have rights and ignore the fact that a game play right to meet only controller players as is given to you is not given to me, based on a classification of the machine? Why is my human, player choice being limited?

Seeing how ridiculous this thread has become, I am even more thankful that I now have more options concerning who I play with.

Yet, I and others, including you, should not be given the rights to choose? Your right to play with controller only and with me is denied as well. How is that a good thing?

You must not be enjoying the game in its current state. Is it really that heart breaking to find out people don't always want to play with you, despite your best efforts to complain until they do?

You dont have to play with me, but that doesn't mean that my rights need to be violated at the same time. The choice of playing together should not require to come with the additional choice of whether to be up against mouse and keyboard.

Just relax bro, take some time and research better strategies to combat the PC SoT's game mode. Don't worry, practice makes perfect, you will be able to hang eventually.

Combat the PC game mode? What do you mean, I play on a PC... if you mean fighting mouse and keyboard users than why does this apply to me on a controller, yet you on your controller get the choice to not practice and just hit a button to avoid it all together? If it is just practice, as you point out you have the ability to block me... why do you want to block all PC players and Xbox players using a mouse and keyboard? Don't they deserve to choose, isn't that the right you claim that players should have?

Just because you get what you want doesn't justify the way other people are not given the same choices and rights. Equal treatment for PC and Xbox players based on their preferences... you are applying double standards and tell me that it is your right to deny me mine?

@captgraykid said in [MEGA THREAD] Update 2.0.11 - Adventure Cross Play Opt Out Discussion & Feedback:

Along with thousands of other people to even begin to think about more changes to the game in favor of PC gamers.

Except what we are asking for, is not something in our favor, it's simply a level playing field in PvP battles. Just like Xbox users wanted. Rare have moved the goalposts in terms of crossplay and now some of their user base get benefits that others don't, even when using the same input method.

Why does owning an Xbox give you a special privilege to play in controller only opt-out servers? As a PC player who also uses a controller, I should be afforded the same option, but I am not. Your response to that was essentially "git gud".