Pipes/smoking

@cotu42 said in Pipes/smoking:

@archangel-timmy said in Pipes/smoking:

@cotu42 said in Pipes/smoking:

@archangel-timmy said in Pipes/smoking:

There have been a few heated debates on this over the years.

I do not think this should be added to the game as it is a disgusting habit that needs to be purged from society. Historical or not, players do not need that sort of a controllable experience. Passive interactions is one thing like cutsecenes or NPC use, but definitely not for the players themselves.

But you are all fine with the consumption of alcohol for players, cause that is not a bad habit that has a historical background?

This is a non-argument as Grog is already part of the game.

By this logic they should be okay with adding brothels, slavery, R/P/P, and how about limiting Female Pirates to a max of 1 per server and force them to where men's clothes?

The point you are making is that bad habits within our society should not be included in games, as it sets a bad example and we would be better without it.

I am just pointing out that the game already has them in the game, therefore making a big issue with smoking because of it being a bad habit has less merit and isn't seen by many as a big issue (most people have tried smoking at some point in their life or still do it to some degree).

They are both bad habits and should be treated equally if you ask me. If this was a principle issue, the suggestion can also be made to remove grog from the game or replace it with something else.

It could, but that was not the suggestion. The suggestion was for an addition to the game, and to add X because of Y is not enough of an arguement for me.

However you instead are going even further and setting the behavior of smoking in the same category as slavery, inequality in treatment of people and discrimination because of the fact it happened in history? Which wasn't the main point being made. Also I do not see a link of mistreatment of others and unhealthy personal habits.

The only arguments for adding smoking is because it is "historically accurate" or in other similar topics, because it would "look cool". The correlation here being that it is historically accurate, everything listed was acceptable in the time period. I made no mention of the being morally equal, as they are not in the same planet in that regard.

In the mean time you are defending the drinking of alcohol, cause it is already part of the game or is it because it is more acceptable by your personal standards? If they add smoking to the game, would you suddenly think it is a good or correct addition?

I do not drink or smoke, and have had positive and negative experiences in both areas. The suggestion here is an addition to the game, using the existence of one thing as a driver for the addition on another is not a good arguement for its inclusion. It goes the other way as well, denying one does not constitute the immediate removal for the other.

For me it is one and the same, if one is unacceptable than both should be and visa versa. Because like it or not they are both socially acceptable unhealthy actions people can indulge in. I hope people will do only once they did some research, are an adult and know what toxins they are putting into their bodies before even considering the action.

My issue with smoking is that it affects not only the user but everyone around them. Aside from the obvious negatives of alcohol, it mostly affects the user themselves.

You are being hypocritical about the situation and are trying to build a case by dragging unrelated horrible things into the mix by trying to create an association with the one, but not the other? If the act of smoking is in that category, the same goes for drinking. Even though for me personally those actions you mention are in a totally different category.

The association was based on historical accuracy, which is the primary arguement for this feature.

"A propper pipe for the sailor esthetic or if you are living the life of a proper fisherman"

While the OP didn't outright state it was for historical accuracy, the above quote from OP certainly implies it.

@bugaboo-bill said in Pipes/smoking:

@archangel-timmy
And the promoters and supporters who want "smoking to be purged"
Are Hippocrits to me if they dont actively and wholeheartedly fight against any form of alcohol abuse.

Again, different argument. The addition/removal of one does not require the same for the other. Want me to argue for/against its removal, make an appropriate topic for that.

And to drink until you puke is an abuse what you can do in the game since start and never i have seen any post against this.

Another point as to why it has nothing to do with this topic. It is a pre-existing mechanic which has no bearing on the addition of this one.

Alcohol is way, way, way more dangerous and unhealthy than tobacco or some weed.

No one disagreed with this and nobody, including myself, have said anything specifically about weed. This was about smoking in general and is now being directed towards a different type of drug, to what purpose?

I worked btw some years in the psychatry and i was a male nurse and surgency assitant for about 10 years.
There are so much lies and wrong or outdated facts and "Information" about the topic that everyone who can think would rip his hairs off about the counter arguments of legalization of cannabis for example.
People are brainwashed and dull about this.

Again, why are you bringing weed into this?

Btw only 2% are appolonic (no drugs at all), 98% of all humans are dyonisic (use the right to be high in whatever form).

This has no bearing on the topic at hand either. What they choose to do in reality is on them and has no bearing on what is made available in the game.

And if we talk about addiction
i learned over 20 years ago in psychatry lessons that you also need to consider other addictions what ate not related to substances, but also all the other forms of addiction. I only say workaholic or Selfishness, craving for recognition and narcism.

You go from smoking in general, to weed, and now addiction in general. You are actively trying to push the conversation to different topics that are unrelated to the original topic.

And we are talking about smoking a Pipe in a game and we would be even ok with a pipe what blows bubbles only.

That was not stated in the OP, it is directly in regards to smoking.

Ridiculous and hippocrisy par excelence as i said in my first post.

The only thing ridiculous is all the different directions your last post went.

I still wait for als the naysayers to create a topic agrinst alcohol abuse.

Wait around, or create one yourself and see what happens.

It's rated T for Teens.
Teens shouldnt be able to do this in a game right???

It's also rated PEGI-12, and has other ratings by country that vary. What a lot of you seem to miss when you throw this "argument" around is that Rare has stated this game is intended for the whole family, which isn't restricted by a rating system that in itself is merely a guideline.

@archangel-timmy said in Pipes/smoking:

@cotu42 said in Pipes/smoking:

@archangel-timmy said in Pipes/smoking:

@cotu42 said in Pipes/smoking:

@archangel-timmy said in Pipes/smoking:

There have been a few heated debates on this over the years.

I do not think this should be added to the game as it is a disgusting habit that needs to be purged from society. Historical or not, players do not need that sort of a controllable experience. Passive interactions is one thing like cutsecenes or NPC use, but definitely not for the players themselves.

But you are all fine with the consumption of alcohol for players, cause that is not a bad habit that has a historical background?

This is a non-argument as Grog is already part of the game.

By this logic they should be okay with adding brothels, slavery, R/P/P, and how about limiting Female Pirates to a max of 1 per server and force them to where men's clothes?

The point you are making is that bad habits within our society should not be included in games, as it sets a bad example and we would be better without it.

I am just pointing out that the game already has them in the game, therefore making a big issue with smoking because of it being a bad habit has less merit and isn't seen by many as a big issue (most people have tried smoking at some point in their life or still do it to some degree).

They are both bad habits and should be treated equally if you ask me. If this was a principle issue, the suggestion can also be made to remove grog from the game or replace it with something else.

It could, but that was not the suggestion. The suggestion was for an addition to the game, and to add X because of Y is not enough of an arguement for me.

The suggestion was made because they believe it would be a nice, cool esthetically pleasing addition to the game and fits the world, their ideas of pirates / fisherman. Nobody state because we can drink we need to be able to smoke.

However you instead are going even further and setting the behavior of smoking in the same category as slavery, inequality in treatment of people and discrimination because of the fact it happened in history? Which wasn't the main point being made. Also I do not see a link of mistreatment of others and unhealthy personal habits.

The only arguments for adding smoking is because it is "historically accurate" or in other similar topics, because it would "look cool". The correlation here being that it is historically accurate, everything listed was acceptable in the time period. I made no mention of the being morally equal, as they are not in the same planet in that regard.

If they are on totally different scales, why even bring it up. Nobody is in favor of any of those things.

In the mean time you are defending the drinking of alcohol, cause it is already part of the game or is it because it is more acceptable by your personal standards? If they add smoking to the game, would you suddenly think it is a good or correct addition?

I do not drink or smoke, and have had positive and negative experiences in both areas. The suggestion here is an addition to the game, using the existence of one thing as a driver for the addition on another is not a good arguement for its inclusion. It goes the other way as well, denying one does not constitute the immediate removal for the other.

Being morally opposed to it and then defending the existing one is hypocritical. If you want to be principled, don't make excuses why it is fine for the one already in the game.

The premise of what is acceptable for the game should be equal.

For me it is one and the same, if one is unacceptable than both should be and visa versa. Because like it or not they are both socially acceptable unhealthy actions people can indulge in. I hope people will do only once they did some research, are an adult and know what toxins they are putting into their bodies before even considering the action.

My issue with smoking is that it affects not only the user but everyone around them. Aside from the obvious negatives of alcohol, it mostly affects the user themselves.

Well, it is still mainly self inflicted harm and being socially aware is also a thing when being intoxicated. Also, drinking till you puke affects others and is even highlighted in the game.

You are being hypocritical about the situation and are trying to build a case by dragging unrelated horrible things into the mix by trying to create an association with the one, but not the other? If the act of smoking is in that category, the same goes for drinking. Even though for me personally those actions you mention are in a totally different category.

The association was based on historical accuracy, which is the primary arguement for this feature.

"A propper pipe for the sailor esthetic or if you are living the life of a proper fisherman"

While the OP didn't outright state it was for historical accuracy, the above quote from OP certainly implies it.

Euhm... why is this based mainly on history. I think the main suggestion for it is because they think it is a look they want to have. It is also the reason they are asking for a Pipe specifically over other smoking methods, for the look and feel... doubt they care about historical value or accuracy.

@vbaxjoker1073 Point out my contradictions rather than trying to pass off one you created.

Yes to pipes and special effects.

Alcohol is in the game. It is illegal in some countries. It is a poison, litteraly. Yet it's in game.
Murder is in the game. It is illegal in all countries that have laws (I guess ...). It kills people. Yet it's in game.
Thieving is in the game. It is illegal in most countries. The definition may vary. It causes arm. Yet it's in game.
Sailing without a permit is in the game. It is illegal in some countries. Yet it's in the game.

Quotes getting too long to manage on mobile, will be back later :)

@vbaxjoker1073 said in Pipes/smoking:

@dlchief58 said in Pipes/smoking:

@vbaxjoker1073 said in Pipes/smoking:

@biter-wylie said in Pipes/smoking:

Will never happen shipmate. This is a game designed also for young children.

And no it isn't designed for kids if it was it wouldn't be T for TEEN

And teens are also not legally allowed to smoke (well buy tobacco actually), so no need to encourage such behavior.

You are right but to say this game is for kids learn to read a single letter

And the only reason it has a Teen rating to begin is likely due to the use of alcohol/Grog in the game. Nothing else in the game would bump it up to that level on the ESRB scale as there is no blood, language or sexually suggestive themes. The game is designed for pretty much ALL ages, that one thing ticks it up to the rating it is given by an outside agency, not Rare or Microsoft.

And FYI the Teen rating means recommended (yes recommended, not required) for ages 13 and over. In my book that is still a "kid".

http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/ifxLK48cnyDDi/giphy.gif

I was apparently tagged in a post that's now deleted... now I'm extra curious, haha.

Anyway, everyone, please keep the back and forth reasonable and polite. Also, no need to dig too deeply into this. Against it? Cool. For it? Cool.

As someone that would be fine with it included in the game, I do understand the goal of eradicating it from pop culture and such. It's crazy to me that children continue to start smoking (it's crazy that any kids past the 60s ever started it, never mind continued it) once it was pretty well known it's not good for you.
So, removing it as a mainstay within pop culture entertainment and advertising is a good thing...
However, maybe it's not so much those aspects and pretty much entirely because actual people/adults/parents/guardians/authority-figures in their lives smoke the damn stuff.
Still, even saying that last bit - I do understand leaving it out of things.

Probably most importantly - it very well could be something that the ratings board would deem pushing the game beyond Teen Rating. So, we'd not really be arguing the case against each other nor against the developers - it'd be against whatever bureaucratic landlubbers make those inane decisions!

Anyway, yeah...
Oh yeah, @Sargent-Sully I hope you weren't saying anything bad about me! :D

If children are that naive and influenced so easily, they should not be playing games period. But yeah totally okay to let them learn about drinking on a video game so they think it's fun, then end up drinking and killing someone in a car accident in a few years.

Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with having pipes in-game; it makes sense from a historical perspective, and there's also the possibility to add blowing smoke rings for a "minigame" of sorts.

I do agree that smoking is, indeed, a bad practice, that is proven to cause many, many health problems both directly and indirectly, and to suggest it saves lives is pure madness, fueled by an industry that'd rather look the other way. But raging against its inclusion in a videogame where you can make yourself so drunk you vomit is hypocritical and somewhat nonsensical. It's a game; plenty of kids have probably watched older media where main characters smoke. Heck, even The Hobbit trilogy has smoking.

Because of the PC community we live in these days it would make people so mad, im for it but yea as someone said: "It would get the game banned here and there" - Which is silly but that's how it is. -_-

Im however suprised that you can get drunk....because the PC people dosen't like that either as it "might" be encouraging alcohol use for the youngsters haha