Respawn invulnerability

This has been brought up, but widely dismissed as invulnerability could easily be op. Imho, it would be ok to implement something like this that disappears as soon as the player moves. That would prevent players from taking damage before they even see themselves on the ship (don't know why player models are loaded in before the actual player spawns, but whatever).
However, a total invulnerability would mean that you could easily defeat multiple people on your ship without them standing a chance. Also, I'm pretty sure RARE is monitoring these situations (eg by looking at statistics that tell something about average time between respawn and death) and may have concluded that these situations are rare (pun sort of intended) enough to not implement anything.

@justign0reme

Anyone spawning back onto an already boarded ship is at an instant disadvantage, and this doesn't quite make sense to me. I understand that it shouldn't be so easy to save a ship if you've been attacked, boarded, and otherwise bested in combat. However, given the fact that you are able to spawn back onto a boarded and camped boat in the first place implies to me that the devs intend for you to be able to have the chance to fight back.

I don't agree with this being a disadvantage, because everything leading up to that moment of getting spawn-camped, you were at the advantage. Let's look at this from the opponents point of view. First I need to leave my own ship, all I have is what I can carry, so that is a limitation of food and ammo. Now the hard part of actually getting onto your ship. I could try for a cannon-shot, but that is unreliable, so now I am going for the classic ladder.

This is where you are at the most disadvantage, that moment when you are physically on their ladder. You can't attack unless your swimming, so if the boat is moving you are unlikely to attack as well as catch the ladder. Now when you actually grab it, their is nothing you can do to defend yourself besides a little ladder juke. However, chances are they have a never ending supply of sword swings to stop you from reaching the peak of that ladder. The person defending in this situation is in an advantageous position. As long as people take precautions, boarding should never happen. Their is sound cues, situational cues, and just overall predictive behavior that will lead to knowing when a board will happen.

why should I have advantage against someone in their own spawn area, on a ship that's not mine?

You pressed your attack, you placed yourself in a position to press the attack, that kind of behavior should be rewarded. However, this no longer applies to the larger ships with a wide range of spawning to cover. Sloops will always be at a disadvantage, if people don't want to be, than crew up.

If you think players SHOULD be entitled to a fair fight to retake their ship, some changes should be made. A respawn invulnerability is absolutely necessary to actually make a respawn possible in the first place, so you don't get killed before even loading in. There are also other changes I think should be considered, such as making it so that you can't refill ammo on an enemies boat to indefinitely sustain a camp, or allowing players to change and equip weapons while on the Ferry of the Damned.

I don't see that Rare is under no obligation to give players a chance to comeback. People have every opportunity to stop being put into that situation through actions that lead to that scenario. If its a problem of numbers, than crew up. No on is forcing solo players to solo, or make crews go into smaller ships. The ships were not intended to be balanced in a fighting sense. Numbers will always matter when it comes to a fight. Now, before people chime in that they are solo gods who reap Galleons like wheat, chances are that crew was already inexperienced. Their was already an unequal gap in that situation to begin with. However, if it was a ship stocked with multiple versions of you, who will win?

I don't think players should be given an option to change weapon types. This game rewards preparedness, whether that would be properly resupplying a ship, or players stocking tools like kegs and Cursed Cannonballs. Players shouldn't be rewarded for ill planning when it comes to their load-out. Would a sword or blunder be better in that situation, that's unfortunate that you didn't prepare that load-out before hand

Last point, scuttle is always their to prevent extended spawn-camping. No one is forcing players to keep returning to a potential lost cause. If you want to reclaim your ship, time to work harder. No comeback mechanics should be given. This only punishes those who properly pressed their attack at the right time, while simultaneously rewarding bad plays with a chance to come-back.

@cpt-vunderbar

If I'm on my ship, I should be at a slight advantage as the defender. I should be able to turn it around, but it's literally impossible because of spawn camping players who can kill me before I get to fully spawn in. Something needs to be done about this issue.

I would argue that the defenders already have the advantage. Their is steps that must happen before people get spawn-camped. Being spawn-camped just doesn't happen, all of a sudden. I mean we are talking about not only boarding a ship, when ship defense is already quite basic, but its also one maybe two boarders who must face an entire crew. In general, the entire opposing team isn't boarding you all at once. This is usually one maybe two boarders at a time. When they are on the ladder they are for the most part defenseless with no method to attack back. Even when its only a few boarders at a time, the boarder/s has to sweep the entire crew without dying. If he dies, it starts all over again. Meanwhile, if what players that did die in that boarding attempt have time to regroup while the survivors hold the base.

Their exist many different methods to prevent being spawn camped. The first step is identifying the moments when a boarding will happen. If you are chasing a ship, a boarder will come. If you hear cannon-fire and do not see the cannon-ball its a boarder (...or someone's pet acting the part of a tease). If you are close enough to see the players, they can sword dash through the water. Players need to turn off the horse blinders and develop some situational awareness. People get way to preoccupied with their task of cannoning, patching, etc... then neglect the importance of keeping boarders off their ship. Besides basic ladder guarding, a crew can just spawn in groups. Now this doesn't apply to Arena, but in adventure the swept crew can just walk through the door together and spawn simultaneously. Rather than just trickle in, spawn together, much easier to reclaim a ship with the whole crew backing you up.

I can't remember the last time my crew or myself actually got spawn-camped. We take steps to prevent this from happening. We are by no means gods of PvP, but if we can prevent it from happening, so can they. A lot can be fixed with a little crew organization.

I’ve always thought there should be a way to choose a spawn point on your vessel whilst on the ferry.

So you can coordinate a respawn with a crew mate when you go through the door together.

Nothing to crazy just each section of the ships have a named spawn.

On the sloop it could be-
Helm
Mast
Bowsprite
Map table
Brig
Bilge
Crows nest

This is just a quick example. The larger ships would have more spawn points.

So instead of invulnerability it’s a spawn point choice.

@galactic-geek A good rule of thumb, dont talk about anything in Insiders on main forums, whether Rare has mentioned it or not publicly. I cant see what you posted, since they removed it. Obviously it did violate their terms, if you did not think so, you may want to look at the terms again.

I'm fine with any arguments for or against "who should have advantage" and when, but what events have lead up to a player death is immaterial. The problem at hand is that your player model loads into the game is able to be interacted with by others before you are even able to see or take control of your character. There is no excuse for this kind of design.

And yes, I considered scuttling when I was making this post, but scuttling should be an option, not a requirement in certain situations. If my boat isn't totally sunk, I should be able to get back and fight. If someone is going to dilly-dally and take their time sinking my ship, I should be able to get a fair respawn and continue the fight. Again, there will always be talk about what situations should be weighted toward certain players, but that is a totally different situation from being outright restricted from playing the game in the first place. Being able to be killed before assuming control of your character is unfair, full stop. I get that this isn't the most common of occurances, but I dont see why that means nothing should be done about it. I'm sure there is a plethora of possible solutions to fix this problem, even if its not widespread, without affecting normal play.

@talriaen said in Respawn invulnerability:

@galactic-geek A good rule of thumb, dont talk about anything in Insiders on main forums, whether Rare has mentioned it or not publicly. I cant see what you posted, since they removed it. Obviously it did violate their terms, if you did not think so, you may want to look at the terms again.

"Obviously he was guilty or they wouldn't have executed him."

Nah, I don't think this logic is sound.

@ultmateragnarok if you lose your ship you should no be able to come back again, that's the fact. I attack you and conquist your ship, I keep it, and I can take it to an avampost to gain some Honour point "pvp rank point" that's what they should do, not giving the chance to come back anytime, this push the player to play whitout thinking, just rushing on the ship becouse in any case they will be back. The base of the Pirates what taking control of other ship and steal everything, here Un can't do.

The only scenario where I think spawn camping needs some disadvantage is the scenario of a solo being camped by multiple other players.

In this scenario, currently, the only option is for the solo to scuttle. I think something like a damage shield, so if you're solo and you spawn in with someone aboard after dying in PvP, you can take 2 lives worth of damage for 1 minute after spawning or until you leave your ship. Call it an underdog aura or something, say that it's the Ferryman's blessing for solitary pirates, whatever.

Doesn't mean you don't have to fight for your boat. Doesn't mean you have an advantage in every fight, just means that if you are boarded and killed you have a small chance of fighting back against a larger crew.

This should make it more entertaining for larger crews too, because solo sloopers might run a bit less and provide more challenging opponents when they do fight. Plus it would shift the meta towards ships that fight rather than just a bunch of scrub boarders who can't sink a ship that doesn't have its anchor down.

So you board an enemy ship and the crew cant be killed for a few seconds? Hardly fair. You know whats more fair? Getting better at the game so you can fight them off or scuttle if you cant.

If i can solo sloop and repel a galleon crew off my ship solo, whilst only playing the game in a limited capacity due to my 45 hour working week, then anybody can do it.

God mode is not the answer.
Hard work, practise and determination is.

@justign0reme
Aye, tis a good point matey, yet there are always two sides to a coin. Implementing such a change can benefit the defenders on a ship and cause an imbalance for the attacking crew. I'm sure RARE has thought about this long and hard. Perhaps in time, a gainful solution to both sides will come.

@crimsonraziel When it comes to the Insider program, Rare has ever right to silence people when they try to talk about it. We agreed to an NDA when joinimg the Insider Program. They have emphasized that so many times, that the poster should have been wary of posting what ever that he did. That is on him

@talriaen Do you have access to what was written before it got removed or do you believe moderators are infallible?

@crimsonraziel no, but I trust the moderator's judgement. We are on Rare's forums, there are rules in place, and the moderator gave the exact reason that the post was removed. Obviously they are going to be especially strict in regards to potential insider information. Those are the terms they gave us.

While I agree that there shouldn't be a set duration of invulnerability that can be taken advantage of; players shouldn't be able to be killed before they are able to respawn AND render in on their boat from being on the Ferry of the Damned.

Being spawn camped on your own ship is garbage.

@ultmateragnarok said in Respawn invulnerability:

The random respawn locations are already a very big feature for preventing spawnkilling.

This does not help at all for players on a sloop, for which as I mentioned, only takes 2 people to cover the entire deck to be able to gank people as they spawn in. Spawning below deck on a sloop doesnt help much either because there is a chokepoint advantage favoring the higher deck. And yes, playing a sloop should carry its own risks, but being killed without being in control of your character should not be one of them.

@giangi877 said in Respawn invulnerability:

@ultmateragnarok if you lose your ship you should no be able to come back again, that's the fact. I attack you and conquist your ship, I keep it, and I can take it to an avampost to gain some Honour point "pvp rank point" that's what they should do, not giving the chance to come back anytime, this push the player to play whitout thinking, just rushing on the ship becouse in any case they will be back. The base of the Pirates what taking control of other ship and steal everything, here Un can't do.

I understand this viewpoint, however, if RARE agreed with your stance that "if you lose your ship, you shouldnt be able to come back", then they wouldnt allow you to come back. Yet, they do allow you to respawn on your unsunk ship. Again, this is not the problem that this thread is meant to address. The issue at hand is that IF we are able to spawn in, then the fact that we are able to be killed without full control of our character IS NOT A VALID SPAWN.

@daringclarky said in Respawn invulnerability:

So you board an enemy ship and the crew cant be killed for a few seconds? Hardly fair. You know whats more fair? Getting better at the game so you can fight them off or scuttle.

I am absolutely not advocating for a de-facto set time invulnerability timer; I understand that having full invulnerability upon respawning along with ability to do damage to enemy players at the same time would be broken. However, having either a very brief period of invulnerability that ends when you resume control of your character, or simply fixing the fact that you can be killed before even spawning in, would not in any way be advantageous to the defender, aside from the fact that they would be able to respawn at all. If such an invulnerability state should be considered, I would absolutely not support it unless people were able to interact with you if you were able to interact with them.

@galactic-geek said in Respawn invulnerability:

In the end, the devs have already fixed the whole shadow appearing before you do issue, so you should be able to respawn on a relatively even basis, not counting number of players involved, of course.

The devs have ABSOLUTELY NOT fixed the issue of your character loading into the world before being able to assume control of it. That is the entire point of this thread. There should be NO situation in which you are able to interacted with by other people before you have the ability to interact with them.

@talriaen said in Respawn invulnerability:

@crimsonraziel no, but I trust the moderator's judgement. We are on Rare's forums, there are rules in place, and the moderator gave the exact reason that the post was removed. Obviously they are going to be especially strict in regards to potential insider information. Those are the terms they gave us.

Can we please stop going back and forth about Insider policies on this thread? It was meant solely to discuss the issue of being spawn killed before loading in. I am in support of discussion about the issue with Insider policies, but please take it to another thread.

Once again, I understand that people think you should be disadvantaged if you have died upon being boarded. However, the disadvantage is already imposed on you by having 30 seconds of your enemy having free reign and control of your ship while you're dead. I still have yet to hear an argument for why it is at all fair for anyone to be killed before theyve loaded in.

Hi , of course i agree whit your point, you shoul have like 3 sec of invulnerability, but lets make this example : i attack you and kill u, you respaw whit 3 sec invulnerability, i know that so i hide my self in ur ship , when the 3 sec are gone and u are doing something else i attack you, maybe it take some time but the result is the same.
Thats why i think they should change this.
an Example whit this idea is: sloop vs sloop whit 2 man aboard each, we attack ur ship and i kill just one of you, until ther is one man on his own ship i cant conquist the ship and ur spawn is normal like now, but if we kill both of you i take the control of the ship and you lose it. This will push player to play more whit strategy and not just rushing on other ship and jump on them, and also will pay back if you are skilled in mele pvp.
But your point is correct , the problem is at the base.