PVE Experience and Alliance Invite Overhaul

@Tehldor

Ahoy!

You might be interested in using the search function to locate some other discussions on the topic of PvE servers. Most people generally think that this wouldn't be right for the game. Here's my two cents for what its worth:

Sea of Thieves is a shared world adventure game where you create your own legend and make stories and memories by the unpredictable interactions you have with other players you have in the world.

With that said, the situation that you described, having your fort loot stolen from you is very much intended to be one of many things that can happen to you. People who steal from you, sink you, or rob you at the outpost are not griefing. It is a part of the game. You may have lost the gold, but you have the story.

I would say that Sea of Thieves isn't about just peacefully grinding to Pirate Legend without interference from other players. Sea of Thieves is about enjoying the experience and admiring the stories you're making, even when the stories mean you miss out on the gold. Additionally, the game was never sold to you as an experience where you would be able to avoid other players and PvE everything. It has always been sold as what it is now - a shared world adventure game where your encounters with other people will be unpredictable and unrestrained.

I do not think that Rare would be interested in letting their players get themselves into a watered down version of their pride and joy that is Sea of Thieves where the experience is more limited and more predictable because of the rules of a PvE server or PvE only protection. Most of the community seems to agree on this anyway.

PvE servers/flags would simply betray the concept that this game is built on.

I think about all the times I was in a PVE friendly crew, doing skelly forts that only popped up like every 4 hours. And how much more satisfying it was to turn in the loot after defending it, I don't think I would still be playing this game if it was PVE, even if it was an option that I could opt out of. Because as a new player I would have been tempted to grind in PVE and my accomplishments wouldn't feel as grand.

But this is just how I feel of course :)

What's the game called?

@tehldor This is a shared world experience. Where we craft and make our tales with other people.

This is what the game is about, according to the developers and what you bought, Source: Sea of thieves official website(https://www.seaofthieves.com/game):

"Sea of Thieves is a new type of multiplayer game that delivers all you need to live the free-roaming pirate life. Whether adventuring as a group or sailing solo, you'll encounter other crews... but will they be friends or foes, and how will you respond?"

The skull forts are the cloud events. These events are visible from anywhere in the world, to alert crews that there is a bunch of loot here, come and earn it. It is in the game to create those encounters with other crews and are the main spot to search for PvP encounters as it is a world event. Anyone and everyone is invited to team up or fight for the loot and how you will respond?

Want to avoid PvP then the cloud events are not the best goal to set out for yourself. Do a voyage, go big game hunting and just be aware of your surroundings. Pirates don't show up out of the blue, just spot them on time and with proper sailing can be avoided.

In a shared world it is up to you and the people you encounter how the session plays out. It is possible to reduce player contact based on your play style. It is up to you as a free-roaming pirate with all the tools to decide how to play in a world full of dangers, both PvE and PvP. The game is about tools not rules.

Try talking to your opponents and you might be able to negotiate a truce, can maybe net you an alliance if you meet the right people. Just doubt that will ever happen at a skull fort, those are kind of known for being contested loot and people don't want to share. It is kind of the whole idea behind Cloud events that are telling everyone: Loot and potential PvP in the same place!

Most people like PvP more if there is for sure something to fight for. The times you sink someone on the opens sees and they have tons isn't that often, so a lot of people just do voyages just like you or one of the events. The majority of pirates that fight over forts are not the ones that go hunt you from across the map. They are there for the fort loot just as you are, the only difference is they are willing to fight for it.

Don't expect to be able to do everything, without other players being near by or responding to the big cloud in the sky and also wanting that loot for instance. You are playing a multiplayer game, in a shared world.

The seas are filled with different people and you are one of them. The whole concept of the game is to have all these different play styles and preferences come together and have fun together. Embrace the challenges on the sea, enjoy those moments. Wining and losing are part of games, learn from the losses and decide how you want to play and get better at it. Become a better pirate, one worthy of the title legend.

This game should never offer a mode in which we can progress in this shared world while providing the exact same experience as the main game mode: Adventure. Want a PvE mode, it should be a different experience. A place where multi-crew PvE encounters or difficult puzzles are solved and where you earn rewards for a new faction. Just as what the Arena is doing for PvP. There should always be a motive to have you rejoin us in the Adventure mode for its unique experience. We don't want some copy with elements removed.

@a-cranky-eskimo said in PVE Experience and Alliance Invite Overhaul:

Pve servers, eh personally with the low pop if they made them stop gaining rep at lvl 25 and commendations arent unlockable or something

Agree. You could really incentivize the PvP servers for high-risk/high-reward, but if a player wants to seek the relative safety of PvE they have that option.

I challenge the consensus is to preserve the current dynamic, maybe there is a vocal cohort of legacy players, but who is counting all the "silent" votes of players who would still be here, were it not for lack of a tiered system?

SoT at its core has a universal principle that could apply to all talent levels. PvE Little Leagues, all the way to pro Major League PvP stuff. You dont pit the Bad News Bears against the New York Yankees.

One more topic asking the same thing. It is so easy to sink others, just practice ... the game is pirate, stealing and being robbed is part, one day if you win another if you lose, stop crying for the game and asking for changes that do not make sense.
A true pirate legend has know how to deal with every situation that appears.

@khompewtur said in PVE Experience and Alliance Invite Overhaul:

@a-cranky-eskimo said in PVE Experience and Alliance Invite Overhaul:

Pve servers, eh personally with the low pop if they made them stop gaining rep at lvl 25 and commendations arent unlockable or something

Agree. You could really incentivize the PvP servers for high-risk/high-reward, but if a player wants to seek the relative safety of PvE they have that option.

They already have the option, to play in a relatively safety and the tools to do just that have already been supplied: Spy Glass, spot any pirates on the horizon and Sailing away from them.

The game is about being a free roaming pirate and all the tools are given to you to decide how you want to use that freedom.

When I don't feel like other pirates, I avoid them and rarely get caught. I solo Athenas and never lost the legendary chest. Having difficulties not being caught, learn from your mistakes and become a better pirate. All PvP can be avoided with awareness and the ability to sail.

Learning to play the game and overcoming its challenges is a part of gaming. Don't expect to be a legendary pirate from day one, it takes practice. How you play is up to you, but you will still need to learn to be a pirate whether it is one that flees, smooth talks or fights.

I challenge the consensus is to preserve the current dynamic, maybe there is a vocal cohort of legacy players, but who is counting all the "silent" votes of players who would still be here, were it not for lack of a tiered system?

The seas are not for everyone, the game shouldn't change its identity. A non tiered system is is kind of the point of: All pirates are equal. Just because it isn't to your liking, doesn't mean it should change.

Read my above post for more on this games core and what it is about, in accordance with how it is stated and advertised by the developers.

I am bad at realistic racing games, should I because I played Forza state they should add a Mario Cart style mode because I cannot keep up with others? Should they do that, because I am not skilled enough to keep up instead of practicing and becoming better at the game?

If it makes me quit, it is because it just isn't my type of game and that is normal, no game can be for all humans we are to unique and different to accomplish that. My friends love them and always beat me... it doesn't make the game bad and requiring to change into a Mario cart or Need for speed. It is a good game, it just isn't for me.

SoT at its core has a universal principle that could apply to all talent levels. PvE Little Leagues, all the way to pro Major League PvP stuff. You dont pit the Bad News Bears against the New York Yankees.

This is a shared world experience, where everyone and their play style are together. It is more like a public park where everyone is welcome to play along. Whether you choose to join the big group or sit at the edge under a tree alone is up to you. If someone approaches you, you can move away. This is not a competition, with leagues to participate in where in the end there is one victor.

It isn't a world where you must compete to become the victor at the end. It is a world where you do your thing and encounter others.

They already have the option, to play in a relatively safety and the tools to do just that have already been supplied: Spy Glass, spot any pirates on the horizon and Sailing away from them.

What?? No.

When I don't feel like other pirates, I avoid them and rarely get caught.

The exception, not the rule.

The seas are not for everyone

Wrong.

the game shouldn't change its identity. A non tiered system is kind of the point of: All pirates are equal. Just because it isn't to your liking, doesn't mean it should change.

We change everything these days, you can even change your gender if you don't prefer it.

If research found separate areas would juice the player base, why not? At this point, maybe it's just about fatigue.

In development terms, would this be hard?

Do you want to go to the 'Danger Zone'?
[Y/N]

Read my above post for more on this games core and what it is about, in accordance with how it is stated and advertised by the developers.

Holding on to a prior point of view is no argument against adaptation.

I am bad at realistic racing games, should I because I played Forza, state they should add a Mario Cart style mode because I cannot keep up with others? Should they do that, because I am not skilled enough to keep up

If they found enough people shared your request, maybe they should.

This is a shared world experience, where everyone and their play style are together. It is more like a public park where everyone is welcome to play along.

It should be a park with many softball fields. Different sizes per capability, extending the field of play accordingly.

What we have now is the 'Clockwork Orange' park, where you fearfully rush your picnic in hope the Droogs won't show up for a taste of the 'ultra-V'.

@cotu42 said in PVE Experience and Alliance Invite Overhaul:

Learning to play the game and overcoming its challenges is a part of gaming. Don't expect to be a legendary pirate from day one, it takes practice. How you play is up to you, but you will still need to learn to be a pirate whether it is one that flees, smooth talks or fights.

Amen. Be cautious and learn how to evade the people you don't want to be caught by.

The seas are not for everyone, the game shouldn't change its identity. A non tiered system is is kind of the point of: All pirates are equal. Just because it isn't to your liking, doesn't mean it should change.

I am bad at realistic racing games, should I because I played Forza state they should add a Mario Cart style mode because I cannot keep up with others? Should they do that, because I am not skilled enough to keep up instead of practicing and becoming better at the game?

Well put.
"Namco, Dark Souls is too hard, could you make it turn-based since I don't have good reflexes? I'm sure there is at least a few of us that would like it! It is also too... Dark. It scares my kids. Let's put some unicorns in there."

If it makes me quit, it is because it just isn't my type of game and that is normal, no game can be for all humans we are to unique and different to accomplish that. My friends love them and always beat me... it doesn't make the game bad and requiring to change into a Mario cart or Need for speed. It is a good game, it just isn't for me.

Yup, why try to morph the game away from its original spirit because it doesn't specifically cater to you? Yes Rare makes ongoing tweaks that will make the game better for everyone, but why ask them to alter significantly the gameplay because you don't like it?

Why should Rare rush to please "silent voices" of people who didn't like the game, quit and didn't give it a chance, over the dedicated fans who enjoy the current direction of the game? Numbers show the player base is growing great apparently so it must not be a big loss in the first place no?

This is a shared world experience, where everyone and their play style are together. It is more like a public park where everyone is welcome to play along. Whether you choose to join the big group or sit at the edge under a tree alone is up to you. If someone approaches you, you can move away. This is not a competition, with leagues to participate in where in the end there is one victor.

It isn't a world where you must compete to become the victor at the end. It is a world where you do your thing and encounter others.

This. If you don't like the people at the park, or the games they are playing, if you rage because a rogue ball got in your picnic, just play in your own yard, or go to the the next park if you are not happy with this one.

@tehldor mate pve severs are not a poplar idea so it may happen I don't know

@gi-jho oh be quiet mate that's so dead now

@closinghare208 But what is it called though?

@bloodybil I know it called sea of thieves but that quote is so dead now so please stop making the quote

@khompewtur

It isn't about adapting it is about the philosophy behind it. The game play can change, the balance can change, the tools provided can change. The idea, the philosophy behind the game should remain. That philosophy is on the main website of the game, it is what the game is about.

What is being asked here is a change in the idea. The many parks and softball field you call. The thing that you don't realize, those fields are there. They just are different games.

Don't try to create a single game catered to every living soul, it cannot be done and will doom the game to failure. A Italian restaurant should not try also serving Chinese, Mexican, Irish, Indian and French dishes on top of their own. It causes a conflict in identity and make you fail as a restaurant even though the Italian food is amazing. The same applies to games, they should stick to their identity and what made them great. For Sea of Thieves that is the shared world experience where all are welcome to come in and play as they want, in the same world.

Sea of Thieves is one of millions of games out there. If the playfield and idea behind it does not suit you, there is a whole world of other fields (games) that might be better suited for you. Don't change my favorite one so that I would not be recognized anymore.

Sea of Thieves provides you all the tools needed to play as you want, if you believe I am a pirate elevated to the status of God and the exception to the rule. I am sorry to disappoint you, but if I was that good I would be a pro gamer. I am not more than an average person, I just learn to play the game and lose everything, think about it and try again till I managed to be good enough to be able to avoid people at will. If I can do it, I am sure you can learn to do it as well. It takes, time and effort.

I am a gamer at heart, I come from the era where games were punishing and brutal. Loss is something I have lots of experience in and I have learned that games require you to learn and adapt if you want to achieve the goals you want.

Don't come here stating it is impossible, there enough players that do just that. It is you that should adjust, not the world around you. It isn't all about you, it is a shared world and you can choose to join it. If you do, learn it, get better and enjoy. You are acting entitled when you're just refusing to be a better pirate and earn the title of legend, it mean more than just being 50 in three factions. It means to play as you want and being good enough to do it. Be a master of the seas and use the tools provided to achieve it.

@closinghare208 said in PVE Experience and Alliance Invite Overhaul:

@bloodybil I know it called sea of thieves but that quote is so dead now so please stop making the quote

As long as people keep asking for a Sea without Thieves, I suppose it still remains relevant on the contrary.

@bloodybil ok then

I’d love a private server or PVE option. I personally love questing and the game mechanics, but I don’t enjoy raiding others or being raided. I play this game to chill out and have fun with friends, and all that comes to a halt when another crew chases us for over an hour.

My opinion is, if some would like an option to have a more relaxing experience, have some sort of private server option with dedicated XP and money that is not shared with the official servers. Something like ARK in that sense. Just because I don’t want to play the game that some do, doesn’t mean I should have to be subjected to how they play.

@cotu42 said in PVE Experience and Alliance Invite Overhaul:

@khompewtur

Sea of Thieves is one of millions of games out there. If the playfield and idea behind it does not suit you, there is a whole world of other fields (games) that might be better suited for you. Don't change my favorite one so that I would not be recognized anymore.

Yes, there are many alternatives competing for the player's attention. Gauging their true interests & preferences is probably what separates successful games.

To proclaim "As developers, we've firmly decided what this game should be, and are not seeking feedback or input from the gaming community" is a 'bold strategy' (mistake).

While Rare isnt going to follow through on every whimsical suggestion, they definitely adapt this game with intent on pleasing customers (aka prospering)

I am a gamer at heart, I come from the era where games were punishing and brutal. Loss is something I have lots of experience in and I have learned that games require you to learn and adapt if you want to achieve the goals you want.

You're speaking from your own preferences & experiences.

If there were a separate safe vs. danger zone, I would venture into the danger zone at times as a conscious decision. If a player does not feel like taking this risk their only option is not to play.

The fact this debate doesn't subside indicates a portion of the player base has interest in the "frustration insurance" of working in a safe zone.

Telling people "suck it up & embrace the risk, we've decided it is good for you"... in a contest between customer preference & inflexible product, well...

Not everyone is down with "brutal" but separate zones does not mean that PvP action ends, it just means seal-clubbing does. The "Danger Zone" would now have all the fiercest gladiators facing off (the way it should be).
BETTER competition.

It is you that should adjust, not the world around you. It isn't all about you, it is a shared world and you can choose to join it.

The paramount question facing Rare (any developer) is "what can we do to entice people to join? what can we do to get them to stay?" under premise the objective is to grow the user base.

If Rare is completely satisfied with the existing numbers & growth, as you mentioned they dont need to change anything.

@tehldor ahoy there! While I haven't read through all the posts in this thread, here are a couple quick thoughts:

1. Private servers are coming! We don't know when, nor what they might look like, but there's a chance they could be what you're looking for (de facto PvE servers)!
2. The game is currently designed such that loot is not truly yours until you turn it in. It's frustrating, but you have to take care and use the tools you've been given to make sure you make it safely to port
3. Forts are endgame content designed specifically to encourage high-level PvP. You should never expect a fort to be uncontested.

Hope one or two of those makes sense to you!

@khompewtur said in PVE Experience and Alliance Invite Overhaul:

@cotu42 said in PVE Experience and Alliance Invite Overhaul:

@khompewtur

Sea of Thieves is one of millions of games out there. If the playfield and idea behind it does not suit you, there is a whole world of other fields (games) that might be better suited for you. Don't change my favorite one so that I would not be recognized anymore.

Yes, there are many alternatives competing for the player's attention. Gauging their true interests & preferences is probably what separates successful games.

What makes successful games is to not try and please ever gamer in the world. Focus in a game design is key, stay true to your vision and experience that drew your dedicated audience in the first place.

To proclaim "As developers, we've firmly decided what this game should be, and are not seeking feedback or input from the gaming community" is a 'bold strategy' (mistake).

While Rare isnt going to follow through on every whimsical suggestion, they definitely adapt this game with intent on pleasing customers (aka prospering)

They should get feedback and look at their product for improvements, however those should remain true to their vision. You might want to read the about page on the website, as the core is to share a world with others, people that don't play like you and those that do. The question is how will you respond?

I am a gamer at heart, I come from the era where games were punishing and brutal. Loss is something I have lots of experience in and I have learned that games require you to learn and adapt if you want to achieve the goals you want.

You're speaking from your own preferences & experiences.

Yes, I am and in this day and age finding these type of games are limited or extremely time consuming. I have a life, responsibilities and priorities that cannot be ignored. Finding a game that offers this kind of experience is very rare and is why I don't want it to evolve into more of the standard that everyone else is offering, just because some people don't enjoy facing challenges and overcome them and just like to relax. The seas are supposed to be dangerous and mysterious, it isn't incredibly difficult to learn. You can avoid all PvP situations with good awareness and sailing.

If there were a separate safe vs. danger zone, I would venture into the danger zone at times as a conscious decision. If a player does not feel like taking this risk their only option is not to play.

The fact this debate doesn't subside indicates a portion of the player base has interest in the "frustration insurance" of working in a safe zone.

Telling people "suck it up & embrace the risk, we've decided it is good for you"... in a contest between customer preference & inflexible product, well...

It is good for everyone else that doesn't want a full on PVP or PVE choice on the menu screen. If you believe that people will still grind and farm gold on PvPvE instead of this safe "frustration free" PvE area... why would they? Even you think the PvPvE servers will become huge all out hunting grounds or as you call it below a gladiator arena.

Not everyone is down with "brutal" but separate zones does not mean that PvP action ends, it just means seal-clubbing does. The "Danger Zone" would now have all the fiercest gladiators facing off (the way it should be).
BETTER competition.

The problem with this is that I don't want the world to evolve to a war zone or gladiator Arena... that is what the Arena expansion is supposed to be offering.

I enjoy sailing around solo in adventure mode as it is. I enjoy the tension of not knowing whether people or out for blood or treasure. I love the world that has PvP, but it is not the only thing there due to people who are just out for a voyage and that I have to defend my own treasure by taking them out or be chased by pirates.

I want to keep the mystery in the seas. The biggest one is always, how will they respond? Are they friend or foe and how am I going to act?

So, yes the message should remain. Play as you want as a free roaming pirate, be faced with challenges and use the tools we gave you to decide how to address them. Become a better pirate.

Tools not rules after all.

It is you that should adjust, not the world around you. It isn't all about you, it is a shared world and you can choose to join it.

The paramount question facing Rare (any developer) is "what can we do to entice people to join? what can we do to get them to stay?" under premise the objective is to grow the user base.

If Rare is completely satisfied with the existing numbers & growth, as you mentioned they dont need to change anything.

I think they would alienate more people if they offer game modes that provide the same experience as others while just taking out a key factor. It diminishes the quality and the values of the original and provides a watered down version in addition.

Want a PvE extension mode... make it a multi crew world engagement or something else that we don't see and experience in the Adventure mode. Were we have new goals and rewards to acquire, just as the Arena mode will be a different game experience for PvP.

I would lower alliance cut to 20% and your crew income to 60% when in alliance.

These alliances man, did them its not fun, just cheesing

Seems like even PvE proponents agree the "safe zone" should have diminished/limited progression capability, to incentivize the "danger zone". I agree. Maybe tweaks like:

-Only has Castaway Chests/Foul Skulls
-Guilds only pay 1/10th for loot
-No experience past level 25
-No doubloons
-No Devils Roar

Maybe not all of the above, but some reasonable risk vs. reward scheme.

@masterlink4253 said in PVE Experience and Alliance Invite Overhaul:

@khompewtur Dark souls is hard i wish it was like runescape so ill complain about till i get my way, literally what the hef dude, there are like 5 other pirate games out there, if you really hate the games server why don't you datamine the game and make your own private server and you can have a pirate legend character that will never see the online realm, GetGood, now if you were complaining about people exploiting glitchs to get an unfair advantage on other players such as the Galleon vanity cheat glitch you might have a point but stealing from other pirates is the name of the game literally.

This response doesnt seem to match my posts, was I tagged accidentally?

@Tehldor Minecraft sounds like a good fit for you and your friends. If you read the SoT game description before you bought it then you would have saved yourself alot of misplaced anger and disappointment. All I can say is maybe you and your crew need to brush up on PvP tactics.as this is a a PvPvE game. Don't come on here begging for a new mode because you can't hack it as a pirate or neglected to look into the PvP aspects of the game. I'm getting tired of seeing these posts. A bunch of millennial handouts are being asked for and honestly games back in the day were more brutal and punishing then what sea of thieves is. Try to practice a bit and if you still can't hack it then learn how to defend yourself properly so you can still enjoy the game. You will get no sympathy from the majority of the people on this forum for your PvP woes. Me and my crew go out of our way to hunt people like you on servers to show you what it's like to be sailing on the SEA OF THIEVES.