The gun delay really should be fixed

@marsmayflower Because there probably isn't a distinction between the 2 circumstances in the games code. They designed the game where weapons were just instantly available at all times, so they didn't bother coding in a way to distinguish the 2. Why they didn't code it in when they made these changes? laziness or incompetence most likely.

As a developer myself, I can say with 100% certainty that there is something that can be evaluated to return back whether the gun has fired even if they don't actually have an event wired up for the gun fire. The hacky way is to just evaluate your objects on each frame...

if(currentframe.pistol.bullets (isLessThan) previousframe.pistol.bullets)
DoSomething

Can't use code characters, sorry.

Remove the delay between switching,
Set cutlass as fixed so swords has to be equipped and allow for pistols to be dual welded with less accuracy

@marsmayflower I don't understand why that would help. just delaying after shot would be a really janky and forced fix. If they separated the instances of equipped weapon and unequipped weapon.
If weapon.euipped=true
No delay
else:
delay
or soemthing like that. It would fix the current issue with animation delay.

@betsill there should be no delay between switching weapons. Only after you fire the weapon.

@betsill and also, even delaying the next input till after the shot audio is finished or the firing animation is over would have solved the issue.

@marsmayflower said in The gun delay really should be fixed:

@betsill there should be no delay between switching weapons. Only after you fire the weapon.

Why? literally every shooter i've ever played in my life has a delay... How does it make sense that after shooting your gun all of a sudden gains physics?

and also, even delaying the next input till after the shot audio is finished or the firing animation is over would have solved the issue.

Tying mechanics to in game performance is a horrible way to design. Especially in an online game. Doing that ties power to how well your game runs. That's how Bethesda does it and it's a nightmare.

@betsill the delay that happens now under various circumstances is just horrible and is the first thing that has given me any pause to play this game. Gunplay is just terrible now. I don't want it to be like CoD., I just want it to feel like my button inputs are actually doing something. As it is now, the game feels broken. It's just awful and as a die hard fan of this game, that pains me to say.

I don't care why it happened or how it can be fixed. Just fix it.

@goedecke-michel I hate it, unfortunately. And I'm starting to wonder if these changes have also affected other inputs. I find that I have to spam my keybind to get the banana to come up many times. On xbox.

@marsmayflower said in The gun delay really should be fixed:

@betsill the delay that happens now under various circumstances is just horrible and is the first thing that has given me any pause to play this game.

It has a delay at every instance that you pull your gun up. Essentially any time you do something like run or use banana the gun is registered as "stowed away". Since Rare didn't program in a difference between gun states(because they are lazy and just coded everything as instant "press button X happens") everything is animation locked while reequipping your gun.

Gunplay is just terrible now.

Agreed.

I don't want it to be like CoD., I just want it to feel like my button inputs are actually doing something. As it is now, the game feels broken. It's just awful and as a die hard fan of this game, that pains me to say.

This game obviously isn't COD, but there is a reason why every shooter game has the same base principles for gunplay. If rare followed those principles then we wouldn't have these problems.

I don't care why it happened or how it can be fixed. Just fix it.

I care how they fix it because just like how they fixed the instant swap shooting problem, they might make everything worse if they do more lazy and bad "fixes".

@knifelife said in The gun delay really should be fixed:

In my humble opinion nothing was worse than the double gun meta. So for me whatever it takes to make sure that isn’t coming back.

I will take the rare death to PC player over this input travesty. I'm sorry but the game just feels broken to me now. Sniff sniff.

@knifelife unfortunately, he insinuated they will be bring back the slow/punishment for missing, which is NOT what they need to do.

@knifelife I'm not content personally. This game has the most unpolished and amateur combat design i've ever seen in a game. The lack of animation delay at the start(still missing on sword), reloading taking the entire animation, hitting rocks and walls for "combo", etc etc. Obviously if you have enough people one of them will complain, but you don't hear people complaining about Halo, CoD, Apex, Battlefield, Dark souls, Monster hunter, etc. For their combat. These games have well designed and polished combat systems. Sure some of them might not be to everyone's preference, but they work really well. Rare doesn't need to trial and error. First person combat has been done well for years and years. First person sword combat has been done to death, same with first person gunplay. Plenty of inspiration and lessons to be learned. They seem to have ignored most if not all of it and created a combat system that repeats mistakes that were thought to have been learned from and done with in the gaming industry.

@betsill aside from the newly added gun delay, my main issue is the poor input response. Inputs just don't register a lot of the time.

It's terrible

@marsmayflower DG wasn't limited to PC players and almost every crew I ran into had a DGer, I am glad the cancer is gone.

@zormis absolutely, I agree. I just think they really hurt the gameplay with their solution. Seems like it can be improved and still keep people from DG'n.

@knifelife I haven't played that game, but i've heard good things from people who have. That's the problem with Rare and their combat. It looks as though the combat was designed by someone who hasn't played games with combat at all. All that they have right is the most basic principles that even a child would know: guns shoot things and swords hit things. When it comes to all the polish and nuance that makes good combat, they failed. like the combo "system". This is how I imagine the meeting went:
Dev 1-"Hey don't video games use "combo" or something? lets do that."
Dev 2-"How does it work."
Dev 1-"idk."
Dev 2-"Well don't look it up. We'll figure something out."

Honestly, I am loving the changes made. I barely notice a delay when equipping my flint lock. And with a few tweaks and learning how to play with the sword changes, I am loving it. Maybe that is because I like playing a swash buckling pirate more than a gun toting pirate. Do they need some more tweaks, sure. But the fact that you can't EoR hip fire at me is great. You can't double gun me if I am moving around, again, great. We have extended PvP which isn't over in a blink, making it much more exhilarating, you guessed it, great.

@galactic-geek said in The gun delay really should be fixed:

@betsill said in The gun delay really should be fixed:

@knifelife unfortunately, he insinuated they will be bring back the slow/punishment for missing, which is NOT what they need to do.

It absolutely is, because that would make the running sword slash mechanic (not the charging stab mind you, but rather block+move+tap attack) great again!

Also, DGing isn't gone - only the DGE is. 😉

The block attack to avoid being slowed is a bug and never should have been a thing. The blocking mechanic somehow doesn't play nice with the the attacks and "unlocks" the sword by removing it's intended movement restrictions(it's a legit exploit). Adding the slow back makes the sword feel worse to use which is a bad thing. It needs to be fixed, but not by making it less fun to use. There are plenty of good ways to nerf the sword. The best first option would be to remove the CC from the swords attacks, since it is a horrendous mechanic that makes the sword feel terrible to be used against you.

@nofears-fun said in The gun delay really should be fixed:

Honestly, I am loving the changes made. I barely notice a delay when equipping my flint lock. And with a few tweaks and learning how to play with the sword changes, I am loving it. Maybe that is because I like playing a swash buckling pirate more than a gun toting pirate. Do they need some more tweaks, sure. But the fact that you can't EoR hip fire at me is great. You can't double gun me if I am moving around, again, great. We have extended PvP which isn't over in a blink, making it much more exhilarating, you guessed it, great.

Totally agree! Much better game combat wise. Combat is more balanced and fun without exploits that turned the sea upside down with misuse of guns. Just a little spit and polish needed to make it shine.

@galactic-geek Console doesn't matter anyone can do it. Literally all you have to do is block before attacking and the movement penalty won't be applied. I'ts a bug/exploit that's been in the game at least since launch and probably before, but Rare hasn't done anything about it. The CC i'm talking about is when someone gets hit with a sword they are CCed. From what I can tell the CC is a really high % slow, a huge jump reduction and and something happens with your ability to shoot. I'm not sure exactly what happens because Rare doesn't tell us and testing this kinda thing is very difficult, but it makes it seemingly impossible to shoot someone(it might redirect your aim straight down, but again it's hard to tell). if you get hit by a sword and you don't have a sword your self to stop the attack(by blocking), you are screwed(not to mention if there is more than one you have 0% chance of surviving after the first hit.). The way the sword is designed is terrible, but the CC in particular makes it miserable to fight against(especially inside a ship). It kills you not with skill, but by taking away all your options. Before you get hit you can jump and dodge and shoot and heal(healing is def a problem in this game though). When you get hit you have one option: accept your death(unless you have a cancer stick yourself).

Adding the slow back to the attack is bad because 1. it's a nerf to usability and fun 2. It's only a nerf to noobs who don't use the bug.
You have to understand. This "buff" wasn't really a buff. No one who knows how to use the sword has ever had to deal with the slow because it's trivial to just bypass it by using the block bug. The removal of the slow changed nothing for experienced players because it never existed for them. The sword is overpowered because of every change EXCEPT the removal of the slow. The only thing changed by removing the slow was that it essentially "fixed" the bug for normal attacks. The slow for the sword lunge still exists though... Except not, because just like slow on the normal attack the slow on the lunge only exists for noobs that don't know that blocking will cancel the slow AND the jump penalty on the sword charge.

@galactic-geek The block bug, is a bug, and it's VERY obviously a bug. You don't take 2 slows and get a speed boost. Throwing "advanced" in front of it is just being disingenuous not to mention ridiculous. What in the world is "advance" about using block before an attack? I'm not even gonna let you try and bs an answer to that. The answer is: Nothing.

The advanced charging stab (with its increased movement speed) is also a legitimate,

If by legitimate you mean "not a bug" then that's 99% guaranteed false. Admittedly, based on rares lazy combat design there is a very small chance that it could have been intended, but I don't thing that poorly of them.

and intended (even if not originally so), mechanic.

That's not how intent words... Intent is in the moment of the act. You can't "intend" after the matter of fact. If something unintended happens, you can't then claim "I meant to do that."