Private servers arguments.

  • ClarionZ
    Master

    Hey there pirates

    So with crossplay announced to be happening, it will be breaking up some mixed crews (understandably) until private servers will come up.
    Yet there's some arguments against private servers that seem to be .. well.. silly.

    What do you think a private server is? Now after reading multiple opposition posts over the months, it seems like people think a private server is an offline mode where everyone will go grind gold and rep all by themselves.
    I would expect it to be more of normal game where everyone you meet is part of your group. Instead of fighting a random guy, you'd fight people you know. Invitation only to play basically. So, not solo but private.

    "But the rewards! They should have none!". This is bit of a puzzling one. Fights would work as they do already. Sure there's a higher chance of alliances among people you know, but people gaming with friends usually do experience more competition when playing with them instead of strangers. Or atleast it seems that way.
    Also the Kraken, Skeleton ships and Megs would still be there as normal. As would volcanoes. So ships would sink as they always have.
    Just because someone plays in a server/session where you can't enter isn't a reason to take away parts of their game. Or should we start posting threads about Xboxers being able to grind away without PC players in future, so their rewards should be taken away?

    And for now, I'll stop here. Post is getting long enough already :)

    When you decide to respond, please remember it's about the arguments, not "add private servers" post.

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  • N1njah1
    Captain
    Insider

    I guess you can't prevent people from grinding money on a private server. This will definitely happen. Two separate accounts/characters, one for private servers and one for the official servers would be nice. But I'm not sure if that's something we will see.

    Personally I don't have that much against private servers. But I can imagine some people are against it and feel it's a slap in the face for all the hours you had to risk your loot. Seems like we can just wait and see :)

  • LucianSanchez82
    Legend
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @clarionz This link has been posted around in this forum plenty of times before, but I feel it alone forms an adequate answer to why so many of us are against private servers.

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/game

    For many of us, including the developers if you watch some of the Inn-side stories of the past, this game is about encountering unknown crews upon the waves and not knowing who they are or what they might do - it's where the tension comes from after all!

    Take that away and you're left with a pretty empty experience in my mind. If I know the crew of every ship I see, then I know they're not a real threat. Even if it came to blows it would probably be after we've all cashed. Again, a rather empty experience which I think would become bland pretty fast.

    Then of course there's the free grind, which would obviously happen as everyone seems to want to catch that pirate legend carrot in the quickest possible way they can. Give an environment that allows players to earn all their rep free from the threat of other players and many will take it. Most will probably then come back to complain that there isn't enough to do/reason to keep playing.

    It's a double edged sword in that way. Give a minority what they want, then watch them quickly drift away because it's now not engaging enough!

  • FaceYourDemon
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @clarionz The problem is that it will be a massive grind.
    Private servers could be great if you wont be able to transfer your progress to the normal character, then you will have no objections you want something diffrent there you go, this way you can prevent the grinders.

  • ClarionZ
    Master

    @luciansanchez82 said:

    If I know the crew of every ship I see, then I know they're not a real threat. Even if it came to blows it would probably be after we've all cashed. Again, a rather empty experience which I think would become bland pretty fast.

    Could be a possibility. Depends on the people you play with. Agreements for cashing in first or not, would be up to you. :)
    With current system, meeting randoms just doesn't really feel like anything (personal feeling). Just a ship in a distance, no names, no stories.. just ships. Might as well be bots.

    Then of course there's the free grind, which would obviously happen as everyone seems to want to catch that pirate legend carrot in the quickest possible way they can. Give an environment that allows players to earn all their rep free from the threat of other players and many will take it. Most will probably then come back to complain that there isn't enough to do/reason to keep playing.

    I'm sure some would use it to grind away.. that's just not much of a difference from what people do now. Grind forts or voyages. Threat free? No. All the threat which Rare has added into the game are there for all, no way to avoid them. As for hostile players, that depends on what kind of group they're playing with.

    It's a double edged sword in that way. Give a minority what they want, then watch them quickly drift away because it's now not engaging enough!

    That's a possibility. Also it may work in opposite way. For example, Elite: Dangerous has private groups that are alive and well after all these years since launch. Some do PVE, some do PVP and some play as normal but with people they prefer.

    Anyways :) thanks for a good response.

  • ClarionZ
    Master

    @faceyourdemon said:

    Private servers could be great if you wont be able to transfer your progress to the normal character, then you will have no objections you want something diffrent there you go, this way you can prevent the grinders.

    Why would you need to prevent grinding? It doesn't take away anything from other people. Also, this isn't something that everyone would jump in to do.
    Some people do it already with full server alliances. And they have to fight against Krakens, skellies and megs, but not each other. Completely legit.

  • FaceYourDemon
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    Insider
    Founder

    @clarionz Not hurting anyone? Hellow even if our goals are cosmetics they will lose their value by being easy to get.
    And even if pure grinding is not for the purpose its still going to be much easier.
    If you work hard to become a pirate legend on a normal server or get enough gold to buy something expensive it will be easier and lose value.

  • ClarionZ
    Master

    @faceyourdemon But they are already easy to get. Shrouded Spoils made it even easier. With Mermaid Gems the grind is easier than ever since you can sell them to any faction. Fort loot has doubled with new items. Krakens and megs are taking their tax and sometimes another player ship delays the process a bit. But overall it's easier than ever. You get to be a legend with time, basically, not skill.
    Some might still grind, but I reckon most would still wait to sail with friends instead of mindless grinding.

    I have few titles I've gained in solo, like kraken hunter and megadolon kills. Was super excited when I soloed my first fort while back and managed to even get away with all the loot (and actually got to sell it all too). No title from that tho :P
    While others have done those things in a group and carry the same titles, those things wont lose any value for me :) I earned them my way.

    Anyways, I get your point. Don't agree with it, but I get it :)

  • Minhoca SoT
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    I am not particularly against private servers (now), I just do not even understand the need for them.

    Would you like to join a private server to battle my friends? Yes, I would. But many of the arguments I see are from people who just do not want to be "bothered" by other players. They are people who want to stay in easy mode by earning their gold. I hope I am wrong, but I believe that these people would also remove Kraken, Meg, Skellies, etc. Just to make it easier to search for chests or capture chickens.

    A lot of people don't want a difficult game, I've met people who would love to remove enemies from Sonic games just to run across the levels without dying, I admit I also liked running on the screen, but let's face it, take all Chaos Emeralds this way don't deserve any credit. I think the reward for something must equal the effort made. The games usually give bigger rewards for players who end the game in Hard Mode. In the Sea of ​​Thieves it should be like this too.

  • Captancola
    Marauder

    I wouldn't mind private servers, even customizable, but there would need to be penalties for grinding in a place where nobody can steal your stuff. For example: a flat 50% reduction in the currency you acquire.

    This would stop people from starting a private server, bringing in the max amount of allies and doing athenas and strongholds until everyone is athena 10/pirate legend.

    But I wouldn't mind a place for extremely passive players to relax and grind casually on the beautiful sea.

  • ClarionZ
    Master

    @captancola said:

    I wouldn't mind private servers, even customizable, but there would need to be penalties for grinding in a place where nobody can steal your stuff. For example: a flat 50% reduction in the currency you acquire.

    I think you're talking about some sort of PVE mode. Nothing would stop you from stealing another players treasure in private server. Only difference would be that the robber and robbed would be part of a same group/community/Friends

    @TargasBR

    I am not particularly against private servers (now), I just do not even understand the need for them.

    Mostly to get your group into a same session. There's multiple groups that are larger than 4, so would be nice to play with all of them.
    With the latest news about optional crossplay, lots of Xbox users (atleast in our group) will be opting out as default cause they dont want to be in disadvantage on purpose. Occasional crossplay might still be a thing.
    With private server, mixed groups would still thrive, as while playing with friends, crossplay issues are not as relevant. Even if your friend is the enemy in current session.
    Basing this opinion on the conversation I had with xboxers in our group.

  • Captancola
    Marauder

    @clarionz but still, a huge issue is that if I gathered 20+ players and we started a private server with 1 pirate legend, we could all start new characters and get to a10/pirate legend in 5-6 days because of alliances.
    And if alliances were removed, the point of going into a private server would be to mess around and not grind with 5+ players

  • Minhoca SoT
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @clarionz Rare said that it will give the option to call friends to the same server (and I disagree with this), so I think private servers will become unnecessary. I also believe that with optional crossplay this "disadvantage" (which for me does not exist) will not be a complaint.

    In the end, all we will have are servers full of friends earning gold with nothing to disrupt, even difficulty will have. I do not think that's fair to whoever plays the way that was proposed by the game. I do not think one thing should interfere with the other.

    I remember when I was a kid, many of my friends created home servers from Ragnarok, Tibia, other games like that, only to be able to grind without any interference from other stronger players, but in SoT we do not have "stronger players" only more experienced players. And what they earned on their homeamde servers were not transferred to the official account, so OK.

  • theMasterplan84
    Master
    Insider

    I'm fine with private servers if rep and cosmetics are disabled. There needs to be incentive for people to go back to the main game otherwise private servers will essentially be used as pve servers.

  • InboundBomb
    Commander
    Insider

    @clarionz
    I’m on the fence about the private servers. If it’s more friends that you want (community in general) to play with on a server then we don’t need private servers but a server selection where we can join in on others. If it’s to play PVE then only 1/10th of the loot and do should be acquired on turn in so you can play longer to do your grind or join back into the fold. Just my opinion.

  • FaceYourDemon
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @clarionz I 100% agree with you its a bigger reason why its a bad thing.
    Pirate legends are a joke now and i dont want it to become worse and after Shrouded Spoils it is easier more a reason not to do that.
    Again if you want to create a character in that private server sure but you cant transfer your progress to the normal one.

  • Lord Pharqwad
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    I wouldnt mind private servers actually, but only if they're zero progression, they would literally act as just personal servers to invite your friends to and goof off with no reward.
    The benefits of private servers would be you could fill a server with members of this community and have homemade gamemodes like Galleons last ship standing, hide and seek, etc.

    But they should be zero progression otherwise if they add private servers with progression it will undermine all the grinding any of us has done.

  • ClarionZ
    Master

    @captancola With 20+players, you could easily take over a server already and grind as you please, if that's what you want. Little bit of work to get everyone in, but it's been done before. Those groups who want to just grind are already doing it.
    I want to believe that since it's kinda rare(atleast it's mostly hidden), not many want to do just that. Instead they want adventures and exciting moments with their buddies. Including robbery and fighting

    @TargasBR Wonder how the "call your friends in" will work out... Instead letting them do so in public, I would let them in to private server. There they would be able to do whatever they want without making the "open" server unbalanced.

  • theMasterplan84
    Master
    Insider

    @clarionz

    I agree private servers should be for friends on multiple ships to join not public servers and the private servers should be for friends to have fun not grind rep or gold

  • Minhoca SoT
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @clarionz disse em Private servers arguments.:

    @TargasBR Wonder how the "call your friends in" will work out... Instead letting them do so in public, I would let them in to private server. There they would be able to do whatever they want without making the "open" server unbalanced.

    Got your point, but how will become the progression? Is it fair a "Easy mode player" have the same rewards in less time with less difficult as a "Hard mode player"?

  • ClarionZ
    Master

    @theMasterplan84 @Lord-Pharqwad @InboundBomb Why you guys think rewards should be taken away? I don't see any new trick or grind technique you can do in a private server than in "open" one. Those who grind, already do so. Many have used alliances to gain extra rep. And this is on assumption that it would be just grinding for treasure.

    @FaceYourDemon Separate characters could work but I think it would make lots of people stay on single mode since they wouldn't want to "restart". So those with private characters wouldn't want to come to "open"

    @TargasBR Wouldn't call it an "easy mode", tho that would depend on the people inhabiting the server in question. AI threats would be the same for all. And player threat isn't that big in current game either. Loud minority on forums make it seem like it is. Personally I find other ships more of a delay than threat, as most of the combat oriented people seem to flock at the forts. If I need to sell stuff, I tend to head for an empty outpost to make sure I get everything sold without interruption :P takes more time.
    But as the rewards/titles/cosmetics go, I think their value is only what you think it is.

  • Lord Pharqwad
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @clarionz like I said it undermines progression in the "main" game. If I can just hop in a private server with a buddy grind xp and gold to buy cosmetics and be able to show them off like you earned them in the "main" game it would actually be pointless and I would quit

  • Minhoca SoT
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @clarionz disse em Private servers arguments.:

    @TargasBR Wouldn't call it an "easy mode", tho that would depend on the people inhabiting the server in question. AI threats would be the same for all. And player threat isn't that big in current game either. Loud minority on forums make it seem like it is. Personally I find other ships more of a delay than threat, as most of the combat oriented people seem to flock at the forts. If I need to sell stuff, I tend to head for an empty outpost to make sure I get everything sold without interruption :P takes more time.
    But as the rewards/titles/cosmetics go, I think their value is only what you think it is.

    I call it Easy Mode because we will know exactly how many players we have on the server, given that they are all our friends. We know if we will be attacked or not, we will not need to keep an eye on the surroundings, etc. We don't have any surprises. You can do forts alone, you can do missions alone. Just easy.

    Nobody likes to lose the things that it took to conquer, and the chances of a friend of yours attacking you are practically nil. Possibly, if there is any PvP in these servers, it will be combined before, which makes things much easier. If it is not agreed before, friendships will be undone so it will be easy mode anyway.

    And the RNG aren't difficult. People ask for private servers for a few reasons, they are all related to make the game easy.

    It is not fair that a player who has spent months winning gold on a server without worrying about anything earns the same as one who worked hard to win.

  • FaceYourDemon
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @targasbr exatly the devs were busy tuning and balancing the game, last one was optional crossplay which its a big mistake but they care about balance in this case they will never do it release private server with the same progress.

  • FaceYourDemon
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @faceyourdemon exactly*

  • Voxiantic
    Master
    Insider

    Difficult topic I think it's too early for private servers and many would use it to grind undisturbed but what's in a year or maybe two? I think then such servers would be good to meet people at all.... apart from that I would like to challenge my friends ^^ and streamers could play against their community :) it's like I said a difficult topic xD But generally I would like private servers I don't think it's bad if people Grind undisturbed. They would find an empty server anyways^^

  • Ghostpaw
    Legend

    Let's go at this from a different direction. Let's pretend they enable private servers, and you are able to grind away surrounded by friends. Why should the rewards you earned on a private server (gold, doubloons, reputation, commendations) be carried over to public servers? Why should it matter to a person who plans to play in private anyways?

  • ClarionZ
    Master

    @ghostpaw Good one :)
    Well, That's assuming that it would be used for mindless grind instead of just having a gaming group/community in there playing as people are playing now. But considering that the grind is already real, there would be no real difference. Fleet servers are out there, but just getting voyages done currently isn't that hard as some people would want you to believe. Attacks do happen, but quite rarely.. atleast that's my experience.
    If you'd lose everything when changing game from private to public, it would discourage lots of people to do so. Why leave private if it leads to restart? Especially if you happen to have some limited PVE event related items.

  • dyfrin
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    Is it going to be like CS/Halo, where a custom server is just always running, but no official stats are carried over (gold/rep here)?
    Will it be a private matchmaking on official servers? If it was private on official, then would there be a request form to get a special key to unlock (like fortnite?) or would it be anytime you want?

    Decisions like that matter greatly to the actual effect this will have.

    People are putting the cart before the horse here somewhat by talking about the ramifications, but we don't even know how they will achieve this.

    Try not to worry about it, until more is revealed and you can really flesh out how it will impact the game.

  • vorondil1394
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @clarionz I think the problem with private servers is that they are effectively also PVE servers. If I have even a modicum of control over who's in the server, I can just invite only those people that won't fight me. Thus, all the same arguments about PVE servers apply, meaning gold/rep earned has to go down.

  • FaceYourDemon
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @clarionz " Instead they want adventures and exciting moments with their buddies. Including robbery and fighting"
    Then why is it a problem that you cannot carry your progress i gave you a good solution for both sides.

  • ClarionZ
    Master

    @vorondil1 With enough friends, it's possible to take over a server now. Bit of work tho..
    But yes, you could do that. You could have the adventure in the way you prefer and if you'd like to have friends only fleet going on doing your voyages.. I see no issues with that.
    Some people do feel that it lessens the value of their achievements/titles/cosmetics tho.
    But should we reduce Xboxers rewards if they opt to do no crossplay when it's implemented since they can now avoid PC players and those who are still in crossplay? (just for thought)

  • FaceYourDemon
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @clarionz The more i think about it the less i want private servers, just thought about this one now it would be a shame to lose so many cool players to private servers.
    Its their will of course but the beauty that the game is random you will lose dedicated players to those private servers.
    Not everyone of course but its shame not to be able to interact with cool pirates.

  • vorondil1394
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @clarionz Yep but that 'bit of work' is what makes that more okay (at least in my head -- it's a zany place in here...). Treasure earned should have a rough (very rough) correlation to risk undergone. That's why the Roar is worth more loot -- even if you never hit a volcano, the possibility of a volcano, the risk, means higher reward. If you have a PVE server (or a private server turned into a PVE server), risk is lower, so reward is lower.

    Edit: sorry, I'm coming across as quite negative when I don't mean to. I think that private servers are a great idea, and I'm glad that they are definitely in Rare's pipeline (even though no date confirmed), I just think that to implement properly there needs to be decreased (but not removed!) rewards

  • InboundBomb
    Commander
    Insider

    @ClarionZ

    I’m different from others in my thinking of things. I’m an old school gamer where you only had one life and to succeed you had to get better at it. Playing from the beta on to now I saw it eventually coming to pass due to concerns of players wanting to do more with friends or those that want to stream to those that want a free ride. Should I care.... not really due it doesn’t belong to me or anyone other than Rare. I will play as long as the game keeps my interest.

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