Broken Trust in the Alliance System

I agree that Alliances may need a little tweaking, but for the most part, vigilance can prevent many of the feature's issues.

Example: The other night, my crew was in an alliance with a fun, good-natured galleon crew. We were working on a skull fort, and a random sloop crewed by 2 approached begging to come along with us. They were allowed in and during the fort battle, I noticed 1 of them had remained aboard their ship rather than helping in the fort. I found this suspicious and mentioned this to my crewmate, who said, "oh, he's fine. Who cares?"
Well, a few moments later, we all cared when we finished the fort and the sloop began firing at our ships, sinking them while everyone tripped over themselves to get back on board.
We were at the Old Boot Fort, if I recall, and getting back down took a bit of doing.
The sloop took off from the fort, and my crewmate and myself got on our respawned Brig, and chased them down for about a half hour before finally sinking them, only to find out they didn't even bother to take the fort loot. Turns out someone from the galleon had tossed the fort key during the chaos, causing us all to lose out on the loot altogether.

My point is simply that had anyone heeded the fact that 1 of the sloop crew remained out of the fort action, the whole mess could have been avoided, and their plans thwarted.

VIGILANCE

@skippy1812 said in Broken Trust in the Alliance System:

Introduction

So, first of all, yes. There are some alliances that end great. Both crews benefit and gain tons of cash. But unfortunately most alliances just don’t end up this way. The Alliance system just gives another way for griefers to make players mad and quit. There are many reasons this system is bad.

1. There is no way to see the names of your teammates other then looking at their names in person. This limits the ability to coordinate and ensure a healthy alliance.

2. There is nothing to stop another crew in alliance from taking all of your treasure after helping you with a quest, skeleton fort, or skeleton ship and leaving the alliance to take all the profit for themselves.

3. It is extremely easy for griefers to pretend to be good allies and then sneak a gunpowder barrel into your ship and destroy you.

4. Failed alliances cause players who were griefed or betrayed don’t want to experience this again so they have 3 options. They can become a griefer or betrayer, completely avoid other players and alliances, or quit the game.

5. The Alliance system practically SCREAMS betrayal. The other ships in the alliance only get 50% of the price of the returned goods?! It makes them wonder why make a Alliance at all when they could just destroy the other ship and get 100% of the loot.

Data

Rare said they be watching to see if most alliances end good or bad. If they were bad then said they would try to make changes accordingly. Although this might not speak for the majority of the community but I have some data on this topic. I asked a total of 100 people, friends, friends of friends, and many random players I have met on the Sea of Theives about the Alliance system. 89 of the 100 asked said they would like changes made to the Alliance system. 73 of 100 said the majority of their alliances ends in failure and lost treasure. 94 of 100 day that they have been taken advantage of griefers using the Alliance System. I don’t know about you guys but these numbers are SCREAMING for change.

Suggestions

1. Give players in an Alliance different colored names from enemy pirates like blue for example so you know they are your alliance partners. This can prevent accidental killing of allies that results in a broken alliance.

2. Similar to the first one, make allies invulnerable to other allies attacks. This will prevent griefers from instantly turning on allies after helping them complete a task.

3. Next to the “My Crew” tan add a “My Alliance” tab so you can kick out greifers in your alliance and more easily join alliances without having to come up right next to the other ship and go to the flag box. This will help prevent toxic alliances and create good ones much more easily becuase in honesty, many alliances that could be good are bad becuase they can’t signal they want an alliance before they are right next to the other persons ship.

4. Make it impossible to leave a alliance unless you completely leave the server and or turn of your Xbox. This means that even if greifers kill you and take your stuff, you still will get 50% of the profit they took from you making the loss much more bearable.

5. Make the profit for other allies in a alliance much higher. Make allies get maybe 75%-100% the amount the person who turns it in gets. That is the point of a alliance right? Everyone is supposed to share loot and profit. Everyone SHOULD get the same amount of profit or close to equal profit. This change will make greifing and ruining the game much less profitable then staying a loyal member of the alliance meaning that bad alliances and betrayal will happen much less.

Conclusion

In the end many alliances right now work out badly due to miscommunication and griefing being much more profitable and easy. In conclusion Rare should make changes to Alliances to make them more profitable, enjoyable, and give greifers much less power to ruin an alliance.

If you read all the way to the end, thank you so much. Please leave a upvote if you think that we should make positive changes to the Alliance system and like this post. If not, let me know what I could add or why you think thag alliances are fine how they are, I am interested in all point of views. Thanks and have a great day.

1. I like that alliances can't automatically tell the difference between enemy and other allied crew members. It means I can board as the enemy to break those alliances

2. And that's how it should be

3. People who decide to break the alliance are not greifers

4. People need to chill and realise this game is all about betrayal, thievery as well as when friendships are made. Its been said many times before but its a pirate game Trust no one

5. Personally I don't even think allied crews should get 50% it should be divided evenly. So if an alliance of 4 turn something in they should all get 25%. Betrayal only tends to happen at places like forts etc but again trust no one

@skippy1812 said in Broken Trust in the Alliance System:

Introduction

So, first of all, yes. There are some alliances that end great. Both crews benefit and gain tons of cash. But unfortunately most alliances just don’t end up this way. The Alliance system just gives another way for griefers to make players mad and quit. There are many reasons this system is bad.

1. There is no way to see the names of your teammates other then looking at their names in person. This limits the ability to coordinate and ensure a healthy alliance.

2. There is nothing to stop another crew in alliance from taking all of your treasure after helping you with a quest, skeleton fort, or skeleton ship and leaving the alliance to take all the profit for themselves.

3. It is extremely easy for griefers to pretend to be good allies and then sneak a gunpowder barrel into your ship and destroy you.

4. Failed alliances cause players who were griefed or betrayed don’t want to experience this again so they have 3 options. They can become a griefer or betrayer, completely avoid other players and alliances, or quit the game.

5. The Alliance system practically SCREAMS betrayal. The other ships in the alliance only get 50% of the price of the returned goods?! It makes them wonder why make a Alliance at all when they could just destroy the other ship and get 100% of the loot.

Data

Rare said they be watching to see if most alliances end good or bad. If they were bad then said they would try to make changes accordingly. Although this might not speak for the majority of the community but I have some data on this topic. I asked a total of 100 people, friends, friends of friends, and many random players I have met on the Sea of Theives about the Alliance system. 89 of the 100 asked said they would like changes made to the Alliance system. 73 of 100 said the majority of their alliances ends in failure and lost treasure. 94 of 100 day that they have been taken advantage of griefers using the Alliance System. I don’t know about you guys but these numbers are SCREAMING for change.

Suggestions

1. Give players in an Alliance different colored names from enemy pirates like blue for example so you know they are your alliance partners. This can prevent accidental killing of allies that results in a broken alliance.

Personally I am against this, but this has to do with the fact that I try to infiltrate and occassionally succeed to steal treasure while not being in any of the alliance crews.

I also think it adds to getting to know your alliance better. Knowing the names, having a general idea how they look like is what forms stronger alliances.

It also introduced funny interactions like alliance members all wearing the same outfits, have code words and such to identify themselves.

Also, nobody should get to angry on being killed by accident in a situation. Just don't attack peoples ships and most of the time they understand.

2. Similar to the first one, make allies invulnerable to other allies attacks. This will prevent griefers from instantly turning on allies after helping them complete a task.

If you think we have betrayals now, image if you become a god that they cannot mess with. What prevents people from going to the crows nest and just dropping kegs onto your deck or shooting with cannons at the ship - they cannot be harmed? Would result in: A naval battle between immortals.

The ability to kill alliance members is to also provide a way to defend yourself against unwanted actions.

This would just destroy alliances due to trolls and amplify the issue you are trying to resolve.

3. Next to the “My Crew” tan add a “My Alliance” tab so you can kick out greifers in your alliance and more easily join alliances without having to come up right next to the other ship and go to the flag box. This will help prevent toxic alliances and create good ones much more easily becuase in honesty, many alliances that could be good are bad becuase they can’t signal they want an alliance before they are right next to the other persons ship.

Communication is in my opinion key to forming an alliance. You have the speaking trumpet, possibily a mic (really helps with alliances) and the alliance flag to indicate the willingness to group up. Don't instantly start shooting, try to talk and setup a communication line.

Naturally these things aren't always to be trusted and is why I personally never alliance till communication has been made.

The best alliances are made if you have spoken to the person.

4. Make it impossible to leave a alliance unless you completely leave the server and or turn of your Xbox. This means that even if greifers kill you and take your stuff, you still will get 50% of the profit they took from you making the loss much more bearable.

What if I win from the griefers and don't want to reward them for betraying the alliance? What if the griefers keep just sailing to us, try to sink, get sunk and just return? They now have permanent GPS on your location on their map, no way to avoid them finding you? Manage to get rid of them or you lost and would like to just continue on your voyage, ooh now they will benefit from everything you are doing, don't want that well abandon your voyage and start anew.

What if you notice you join an alliance with a ship just sitting around, doing nothing at an outpost for the whole session and you don't feel like sharing your spoils with them?

There more reasons to leave an alliance than just plain: I am going to steal your stuff and ruin your experience.

5. Make the profit for other allies in a alliance much higher. Make allies get maybe 75%-100% the amount the person who turns it in gets. That is the point of a alliance right? Everyone is supposed to share loot and profit. Everyone SHOULD get the same amount of profit or close to equal profit. This change will make greifing and ruining the game much less profitable then staying a loyal member of the alliance meaning that bad alliances and betrayal will happen much less.

I think 50% is pretty fair. I don't think you solve your issue by just upping the numbers, the people betray because they want to. Alliances are benefitial enough as it is based on how it now works. If we were to change it a better change in my opinion would be to have it scale down based on the amounts of ships in the alliance as you have to share more. See below how this would work, as naturally the initial value would be higher than the 50% of now.

Scaling as follows:

• 2 Ships, 70% share (33% of the server population - 1 friend - 4 enemies)
• 3 Ships, 50% share (50% of the server population - 2 friends - 3 enemies)
• 4 Ships, 40% share (66% of the server population - 3 friends - 2 enemies)
• 5 Ships, 20% share (83% of the server population - 4 friends - 1 enemy)
• 6 Ships, 10% share (entire server population - all my friends! partah!)

This would promote multiple smaller alliances on the server than just having one massive one and provide more insentive to at least group up with one other crew. Larger alliance will be able to collect loot quicker and be a stronger force on the seas with less enemies, at the loss of not gaining as much as they have to share with more crews.

Might even promote like alliance on alliance battles as a server should have like 2/3 different alliances running at the same time.

I don't think the system needs a lot more than this to balance out a bit more. In the end it will always be up to the players involved and the opportunities you give them. Like they say: Never trust a pirate!

Conclusion

In the end many alliances right now work out badly due to miscommunication and griefing being much more profitable and easy. In conclusion Rare should make changes to Alliances to make them more profitable, enjoyable, and give greifers much less power to ruin an alliance.

If you read all the way to the end, thank you so much. Please leave a upvote if you think that we should make positive changes to the Alliance system and like this post. If not, let me know what I could add or why you think thag alliances are fine how they are, I am interested in all point of views. Thanks and have a great day.

Nice post. Well setup! Was a joy to read. Keep up the good discussion.

It's a game about pirates. Lies and betrayal are a part of it.
The problems you described, are all features.
It's not griefing, its being a pirate.

@skippy1812

Here's the thing, what you classify as griefing, isn't griefing. I'm sorry but that is the reality of this game. Betrayal of Alliances is a thing in this game. Its sounds like you don't like the potential conflict this game presents. For me this is fun, makes Alliances shaky, plus their needs to be incentive not to join Alliances. Sorry, sinking ships isn't griefing. Its a thing in this game. Rare didn't put cannons on this game and expect no one to go on the offensive with them.

Give players in an Alliance different colored names from enemy pirates like blue for example so you know they are your alliance partners. This can prevent accidental killing of allies that results in a broken alliance.

I'm against this, by making this change it makes it much harder for a third party to infiltrate an established Alliance. It also limits the amount of mischief people can get into. I like the realism in this game, you can't just spam cannons when allies are present. It makes you think of your shots as well as forces you to aim with care. While also forcing you to actually pay attention on who is in your Alliance. You already are getting free gold, you should at least need to put a little effort.

Similar to the first one, make allies invulnerable to other allies attacks. This will prevent griefers from instantly turning on allies after helping them complete a task.

Betrayal is a thing in this game. Quite a few of us enjoy the conflict, as well as ask yourself this question. Why take a 50% cut when I can take 100%? That's being a pirate right there, a Thief on the Sea if you will.

Next to the “My Crew” tan add a “My Alliance” tab so you can kick out greifers in your alliance and more easily join alliances without having to come up right next to the other ship and go to the flag box. This will help prevent toxic alliances and create good ones much more easily becuase in honesty, many alliances that could be good are bad becuase they can’t signal they want an alliance before they are right next to the other persons ship.

Don't make Alliances with shady people, or simply don't make them so willy nilly. Some people like to use a possible Alliance as a cover to get close. If you fall for it its on you. Don't be so trustworthy, this is the internet people don't have to be like how they act in reality.

Make it impossible to leave a alliance unless you completely leave the server and or turn of your Xbox. This means that even if greifers kill you and take your stuff, you still will get 50% of the profit they took from you making the loss much more bearable.

Their is plenty of reasons to leave an Alliance valid or not. Why would I pilot a ship with a permanent beacon telling some shady people where I am at? That and you got betrayed and all your loot stolen what makes you think you are still entitled to half? Loot is only yours when its cached in.

Make the profit for other allies in a alliance much higher. Make allies get maybe 75%-100% the amount the person who turns it in gets. That is the point of a alliance right? Everyone is supposed to share loot and profit. Everyone SHOULD get the same amount of profit or close to equal profit. This change will make greifing and ruining the game much less profitable then staying a loyal member of the alliance meaning that bad alliances and betrayal will happen much less.

No, we need to stop encouraging these farming server take-overs. The Sea's need conflict, or its just dull. The PvE aspects aren't much of a challenge in this game. Players on the other hand are. They evolve and can do so much more but with depth, subterfuge and cunning to name some. No AI can do that.

@skippy1812 Since there is a huge reward with having an alliance, there needs to be a huge risk.

I like some of yer suggestions, but 2 3 and 4 really just suck the fun out of it completely just so people can feel safe and sound. This is similar to the raiding on outpost incidents. People wanted outposts to be safe zones so people can't fight each other. Again, it sucks any enjoyment out of the game. When you add stuff like that, it just drives away people. Sea of Thieves is all about plundering, voyaging, and having a fun time. And for some, stealing and betrayal is how they make their fun (me included). But I understand that people get mad when you get betrayed, it's completely understandable. However, if people can't handle it and stop playing because of it, SoT probably isn't their game in the first place. In the Sea of Thieves, ye must be ready accept defeat, and be wise as to who ye trust. We are pirates after all, are we not?

@skippy1812 said in Broken Trust in the Alliance System:

Suggestions

1. Give players in an Alliance different colored names from enemy pirates like blue for example so you know they are your alliance partners. This can prevent accidental killing of allies that results in a broken alliance.

I agree, having a different colour for alliance crews gives us some indication during the heat of battle. This is a nice to have feature that I can see implemented.

2. Similar to the first one, make allies invulnerable to other allies attacks. This will prevent griefers from instantly turning on allies after helping them complete a task.

I Don't agree with you here. Two things will happen here, you're taking away player choise. You might not agree with them but people have the choice to betray an alliance, I don't want to see this game be turned into a bunch of mechanics in stead of a sandbox with a bunch of tools where we decide what to do with it.
Also you're going to help griefing, because you can't stop the guy who will drop everything overboard etc (at least not quickly).

3. Next to the “My Crew” tan add a “My Alliance” tab so you can kick out greifers in your alliance and more easily join alliances without having to come up right next to the other ship and go to the flag box. This will help prevent toxic alliances and create good ones much more easily becuase in honesty, many alliances that could be good are bad becuase they can’t signal they want an alliance before they are right next to the other persons ship.

This is another nice one, having a place where you can kick a crew out of an alliance without breaking the whole alliance would be nice, this would work well with the ship name feature that's going to be in the game some day.

4. Make it impossible to leave a alliance unless you completely leave the server and or turn of your Xbox. This means that even if greifers kill you and take your stuff, you still will get 50% of the profit they took from you making the loss much more bearable.

Again player choise, I honestly don't know what ails the people who drop out of an alliance right before selling but they choose to do so, and I'm not going to stop that.

5. Make the profit for other allies in a alliance much higher. Make allies get maybe 75%-100% the amount the person who turns it in gets. That is the point of a alliance right? Everyone is supposed to share loot and profit. Everyone SHOULD get the same amount of profit or close to equal profit. This change will make greifing and ruining the game much less profitable then staying a loyal member of the alliance meaning that bad alliances and betrayal will happen much less.

Again I disagree with you. In its current state at least you have a reason to work for your loot. I don't ever mind sharing but the loot I sell is worth most to me and my crew and less to the others and vise versa. This way there's an incentive to get your own loot too.

I don't break alliances (unless someone attacks me)
I don't see allies as friends or crewmembers, they are suspected at all times.
I don't EXPECT to get loot out of the alliance.
I don't EXPECT to be left alone by alliance members.

This makes it so I'll never have a problem with alliances in its current state. There can be a profit if people are nice and if not there's nothing different from not being in an alliance.

majortiy of my alliances end well. I just play with a play style that doesnt allow people to cuck me. I dont ally with people who sound like they arent honourable. I can just hear it in peoples voice, sometimes I do ally with people who I can tell will betray me just so I can let them do everything and betray them, sure its been unsuccessful but rarely. what I suggest to you is dont trust people, allways be on edge

@skippy1812 Pretty much no to everything, in my opinion. Alliances are intended to be shaky and easily betrayed... it is still a pirate game and betrayal is a part of that. If you don't want to have shaky alliances, get to know the people with whom you are forming it.

Alliances work well both as a means of teaming up and a means of negotiating during theft - easing the impact of theft by giving the victims an option to still get something.

So, it works as intended. This is one aspect of the game that absolutely does not need fixing.

SoT doesn't hold your hand. It's up to you to make good decisions. I'd you allied with griefers, that's on you not the game.

@d3adst1ck I can agree that that's a fun concept and wouldn't mind if rare kept it the way it is.
I state it as a nice to have feature to me that's like having a would have on the MoSCoW scale.

Must have
Should have
Could have
Would like to have - (this is where I feel this Idea is)

For me personally an alliance feels like the old saying of “keep your friends close but your enemies closer” or “the enemy on my enemy is my friend”. Trust is the biggest issue which falls on the player not the system. Currently the system shows who is basically in a contract with you. It’s simple and effective.

More players need to build a strong alliance through talking. Maybe meet at an outpost and discuss the plans of both crews. Learn each other’s names and build trust. However lay down ground rules. At no time do we board each other’s ship unless given permission, otherwise this counts as an act of distrust and will be dealt with accordingly.

This is what more players should do before changes are made to a system that I’m sure was intended to be. Simple as possible to understand and not make it convoluted.

The only way to really take advantage of an alliance is to create it then go off on your quest as far away possible from each other and when both parties sell loot you both receive gold, aside from that it's just pointless, the betrayal percentage is to high.