@savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:
@enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:
For fixing PvE yes were taking about PvP. Now the Voyaging system will definitly need an overhaul as it will no longer serves it's purpose. Maybe we now we will get actual adventures in "Adventure Mode" But i highly doubt it. Maybe there is a large enough playerbase to support a near endless and mindless grind for cosmetic. Who knows for sure other then Rare. This we will sure findout soon enough. I'm just see way more evidence this will not be the case. I hope I'm wrong.
Well its a dual problem, in order to fix PvE it had to change, it could be more PvP, it could be more PvE. The too scenarios will not mix. They never work successfully together in a sandbox. You either have to focus on a shared goal during the match, or there needs to be something worth investing time in for PvE.
Well i agree that PvP and PvE elements don't mix well in this game. I disagree that with your belief that they couldn't be made it mix well. I see the problem steming from poor implementation weather the a conceptual flaw. The dynamics where simply to underdeveloped. You think that the only viable option was to keep them seperate but this is the lack of Vision. To try and explore new possibilities then stick to conventional trends.
In terms of choice sure there's nothing wrong with it. As a matter of stratergy and principal then there is where we have a problem.
Thats not an argument for why changing the strategy and principle is going to be damaging. In this case the mixing of two wildly different player bases that see PvP fundamentally different was creating a problem.
Frist off I already explianed why this is damaging in the long term in an early post. Secondly Rare created a false impression of what PvP and PvE was. Calling it a SWAG. We never truly got a goonies style adventure. We never got a Sea constantly populated with new players. We never got the Sea of Theives that was advertised. What we have is a loot grinder wrap in a Pvp arena with no reason to steal loot. The playerbase was not the problem the game and it's advertisment was.
In what game exactly do theives directly compete with eachother. Theiving is about stealth and statergy. It's about social manipulation and charisma. It's about survival and choice. The fight over limited resources and space has to do with raiding which is only one aspect. Most theives actual work together.
I besides this one.
Thieving on it's is not about manipulation and charisma, your thinking of a con artist.
Pirates were con artist to. They were also buisness men. The whole pirate persona is centered around their cunning and wittness. Think of Jack Sparrow. As a personality and a sterotype.
There are many ways to thieve and piracy isn't traditionally conning people out of their stuff.
You sure about that buddy cause i think you have a narrow view of what a pirate is. Were there Cut Throats sure there were but not all.
You take it through force. And in this game both players are given the tools to do so on an equal bases. In this game thievery is a competitive activity. It creates a defender and an attacker dynamically... it just did it poorly.
Thats one Method but it's not the sole method. What about the Pirate ninjas in the community or did you forget about them. Or the the dirty alliance backstabbers.
But yes they did it poorly as Loot itself was made pointless to steal as it was meant to be a more risky but faster way to obtain loot. It failed to be that.
The flaws will still be there the casuals won't. Might as well make it a striaght Co-Op adventure mode but they won't. So at best in the short term it will be Sea of Casual.
They might get bored and come to the arena.
At best all that means is arena will become the defualt more while OG Sot will be left to wither away abandoned and forgotten.
Man Sea of Theives has been undermining it's gamplay from day one. Arena is no different. Given a safe space for casuals is Rare underminding their own values.
The arena is definitely different. Because the choices that lead to undermining game play were only for some individuals.
No there were undermining aspects that affected all player they just didn't reconize them. Most players were just wrap in the own gamplay and the experiences are unique to each player many have never seen the game as a Whole. It require a large time investment to experiance it all. Requiring to also play during different times IRL which most player simply can't do.
Some people enjoy being in alliances and casually just wandering around talking to each other and picking up quests. Some people like murdering everyone in sight for free planks.
Yes this game has a diverse set of players. But it player spawn killing for planks was an issue caused by Rare poor disicions. I know cause i'm one of them. They made it so ships had nothing worth stealing except supplies and they made it so if i sunk the ship i couldn't get the supplies. They made me have to kill in order to steal.
Here is where i simply and respectfuly disagree as a fellow PvP'er.
And your wrong. They created the casual adventure space, now its here to stay.
This is where i weep for this game. It may lose me as a pvp'er I just hope there implementation of arena mode is better cause so far they have given me no reson to belive they can do it well. Since the already went back on what they said twice now i have no reason to belive them and they could just as well give up on arena mode just as easily.
This is a legitimate concern i don't see why you don't think it is.
Where did I say it wasn't a concern? And why would PvPers want to stay? There are too many good games coming out and BR game modes are a better sandbox PvP game.
This is My main concern right there. There are much better games to be played. What does SoT have to offer. A mouth full of hype and a bag full of broken promises and crush dreams. Nah Man they got nothing of subtances. All the same flaws will be there. Hey may i'm wrong and they'll fix the game. I come back and we can chat a have a laf how i was so wrong a paranoid.
This agian is where i have to disagree. There have agian been many ideas given that could have accomplished this only one was tried and that was the reaper flag which it self was a concession to a more well established idea. As well as CCb which were poorly implemented and water downed verision of another idea. As well as Skelliton Ships as an alternate flashpoint. No true and complete solution was tried as the root of the issue was never adressed.
What is the root of the issue?
Did we not already discuss this.
Its that there is no reliable way to get people to fight each other in a sandbox where there are many objectives and people will consistently play for different reasons. None of the proposed solutions address that issue. Its always lets give people a reason to attack someone else... on top of many things you can do to get value out of the game. Fighting is just something you could do, not something you must do to achieve any goal.
Look the way i see it There are only 2 possiboe outcomes.
All the PvP'er and harcore player come to arena more leaving a shallow PvE server for noobs and casuals to play in showing all it's flaws as grind will be quick and mind numbing easy. Which may get some of those player to try arena mode. Making it the defualt mode which player are gonning to know for sure just how unbalanced and simplistic PvP is.
A sample of dedicate PvP player still engage in Adventure mode which will agian cause casual to complian as it does not solve the issue and Most of the PvP base that came just for arena will bounce to better games like Black Wake and Skull and Bones.
One of these is clearly the best case senario while the other is the worst. Etheir way the Sot That i wanted is dead.