Close combat training / Friendly fire

@closinghare208 said in Close combat training / Friendly fire:

@captntbear that would be cool but people could use it for trolling

Trolls are gonna troll. It's not productive to say and idea won't work cause it could possibly be exploited. It far better to think of the ways it can be exploited and ways how to deal with them.

@captntbear i think a deuling system in which the participants must intiate the duel via emote to turn off frindly fire would be the best solution. It would also need to be made temporary to limit expolitable sinarios like on death in it would revert to normal.

@archangel-timmy said in Close combat training / Friendly fire:

I believe a simple system to add would be the following post I made in a similar thread a while ago.

@archangel-timmy said in Knife fight/dueling suggestion:

I am okay with a dueling emote for the sake of it, but I am not entirely on board for it firing off some action like this. It would take some time to implement and might not yield that much interest for it to be worth while.

My suggestion would be to allow a player to toggle a friendly fire option so they coudl duel amongst their crew. I mentioned it in THIS post, but I will copy it here as well.

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I have been finding myself wanting this more and more lately.

I believe one of the main reasons for not having Friendly Fire (other than the obvious team killing) is that it would also enable collision between crew-mates which would ultimately lead to general annoyances and plain grieving. However, I feel there are multiple ways to add this feature that would be fun and useful for all :)

Basic thoughts:

1. This needs to be individually toggle-able, not a crew vote. Too much potential to lock players in a state of possible grief. Perhaps unanimous vote to enable and a single vote to disable could work.
2. When a player on the crew has this disabled, they should be able to pass through a crewmate with the feature enabled as they always have been.
3. There needs to be some sort of indicator on the player for their crew to see, as well as on that players HUD so they are aware at all times.

I suggest that players can toggle this feature in the Crew Management section for themselves, a simple switch like "Allow Friends To Join". Some players want that extra bit of difficulty, and this would definitely be a bump up.

1. Disabled - Default on load. The player state is as it currently is. No friendly fire, no friendly collisions, and not friendly physics.
2. Enabled - Players with this feature enabled can collide and take damage from another member of their crew with the feature also enabled.

A possible 3rd option for some potential fun interactions would be to enable collision and physics without the player taking crew-mate taking damage.

I still like the idea of the emote in general, just not as a trigger to enable a friendly fire state. The emote could then be universally used without a change in player state.

Well that a very detialed system. It would require alot of changes to the UI so it's a bigger ask as it requires alot more coding. Also the emote by itself should not be a trigger i was thinking more in line as how the freind emote works all willing crew member would have intiate the emote near simultaneously to take effect. Since the system already exist it's just a change to a few lines of code to turn friend emote to freindly fire on, then it's just a cut and paste to an existing emote unless they want to make a whole emote just for this. I also agree that the name tag should change color to somthing like Red, pink of yellow when active.

@archangel-timmy said in Close combat training / Friendly fire:

@enf0rcer said in Close combat training / Friendly fire:

@archangel-timmy said in Close combat training / Friendly fire:

I believe a simple system to add would be the following post I made in a similar thread a while ago.

@archangel-timmy said in Knife fight/dueling suggestion:

I am okay with a dueling emote for the sake of it, but I am not entirely on board for it firing off some action like this. It would take some time to implement and might not yield that much interest for it to be worth while.

My suggestion would be to allow a player to toggle a friendly fire option so they coudl duel amongst their crew. I mentioned it in THIS post, but I will copy it here as well.

---

I have been finding myself wanting this more and more lately.

I believe one of the main reasons for not having Friendly Fire (other than the obvious team killing) is that it would also enable collision between crew-mates which would ultimately lead to general annoyances and plain grieving. However, I feel there are multiple ways to add this feature that would be fun and useful for all :)

Basic thoughts:

1. This needs to be individually toggle-able, not a crew vote. Too much potential to lock players in a state of possible grief. Perhaps unanimous vote to enable and a single vote to disable could work.
2. When a player on the crew has this disabled, they should be able to pass through a crewmate with the feature enabled as they always have been.
3. There needs to be some sort of indicator on the player for their crew to see, as well as on that players HUD so they are aware at all times.

I suggest that players can toggle this feature in the Crew Management section for themselves, a simple switch like "Allow Friends To Join". Some players want that extra bit of difficulty, and this would definitely be a bump up.

1. Disabled - Default on load. The player state is as it currently is. No friendly fire, no friendly collisions, and not friendly physics.
2. Enabled - Players with this feature enabled can collide and take damage from another member of their crew with the feature also enabled.

A possible 3rd option for some potential fun interactions would be to enable collision and physics without the player taking crew-mate taking damage.

I still like the idea of the emote in general, just not as a trigger to enable a friendly fire state. The emote could then be universally used without a change in player state.

Well that a very detialed system. It would require alot of changes to the UI so it's a bigger ask as it requires alot more coding. Also the emote by itself should not be a trigger i was thinking more in line as how the freind emote works all willing crew member would have intiate the emote near simultaneously to take effect. Since the system already exist it's just a change to a few lines of code to turn friend emote to friendly fire on, then it's just a cut and paste to an existing emote unless they want to make a whole emote just for this. I also agree that the name tag should change color to somthing like Red, pink of yellow when active.

Adding a new menu item to a UI in a web application and standard desktop application is pretty trivial, so I can't imagine it would overly difficult in a game. The majority of the logic is already in place for damage and physics, so most everything is in place for this.

I don't think re-purposing an existing emote is a good idea because it could cause confusion. I only supported the idea of an emote that does not trigger a change in game state.

It would be a little more involed them simply adding the item switch to the menu but true it's not very difficult and Most emote don't do anything so it be more like given an emote a purpose rather the re-purposing one. So i don't see how this would add confusion in fact it would make sense to add an actual property to all emotes instead of the just one. That itself is makes it confusing. As one emote is the odd one. Besides with the emote system you can designate what players have friendly fire on relitive to each other. For example in a crew of 4 you could quickly set up a 1 v 1, 1v3, 2v2 and so on where crews can have dynamic Frendly fire relationships.

Also it's a bit clumsy to be going in a out of the menu to turn FF on/off an the emote system would be more fluid and would down on menu clutter. Althou i'm not agiasnt having it as a menu option i personally like more options.

@betsill said in Close combat training / Friendly fire:

They should just enable friendly tbh.

As in perminately? I don't think perminate freindly fire in any online co-op game is good idea. That would simply cause to much frustration. Althou i get it, there are many times i just wanted to shoot stupid in the face. But that just to make us feel better and not solve the problem.

@betsill said in Close combat training / Friendly fire:

@enf0rcer It works. Halo has always had friendly fire, battlefield has it, and couple other game that i can't think of. SoT already has friendly fire btw. with how dmg works in this game it would be really hard to accidentally kill. Adding friendly fire to the brig system would keep things in check(similar to how halo handles it). Kill a teammate? the crew votes on whether it was intentional/deserved. after 2 or three times you get kicked from the crew. It would also let you deal with trouble makers easier, since you can stop them from dropping loot and what not.

Your forgetting in both Halo and BF even in CoD the frendly fire was an option as it was tied to certain Modes. I do however like the brig idea but i hold little confidence in Rare ability to implement such and intricate feature as of now.

@betsill said in Close combat training / Friendly fire:

@enf0rcer It's not optional in Halo.
Fair enough though; We should try to get rare to deal with the friendly fire we have already. Maybe if they do a good job friendly fire can be enabled. I don't think it would be a bad thing to add friendly fire either way tho.

True. It would at the very least worth exploring. I'm curious if the devs even tried this before internally and if so it be nice to hear there thoughts on the matter. Typicaly though Freindly Fire has alway been viewed as a hardcore feature and the Dev seem to be adiment in viewing this game as a purely casual experience.

This is a great Idea.

So long as the player is able to turn this on/off and friendly fire automatically turns back off on death this would provide a much more natural and community oriented "tutorial" for new players to learn how to fight and for players to teach other combat tricks.

Would he nice if bystanders could "spectate" and make a wager on the outcome by placing resources like bananas, cursed and regular cannonballs, wooden planks up for the bet.

@betsill said in Close combat training / Friendly fire:

@enf0rcer The main reason friendly fire makes sense in SoT is because the game is supposed to be intuitive. What you think will happen is what should happen. You use a compass and a map to find out where you are, not a UI with a minimap and character markers. I thought for sure that I could shoot teammates when I first played, but was a little disappointed when I couldn't be shot or shoot teammates.

You make a solid argument and i do agree as i thought the same way. It would also add to the immersion but i think the freindly fire was set to off for specific reasons.

Sea of thieves isn't at all a casual experience IMO. It might have a casual difficulty(PvE wise), but it's a rather complicated game mechanically. Because of the intuitive design, it's VERY difficult for casual players to grasp. Not to mention there is no tutorial. When a game asks a minimum of around 2-3 hours of play time to finish a mission I would never call it a casual game.

We also both agree here but the dev at Rare don't. They intentionally try to cater to the casual crowed but in the wrong ways. The issue is a they set up this game intenionally for long play time which caters to hardcore so they could encourage/offer shorter gamplay to casual Via MTX. No Mtx came so whats left is elements only harcore players could experiance.

This is the sad reality.

BTW they did add a bit to the so called tutorial section but your right still not enough for the super casual players but enough for the Majority with the basic gamplay skill set to figure out.

@commandwolfyt said in Close combat training / Friendly fire:

@captntbear

I agree we should have some way of doing a Friendly Fire thing. I would like a duel system put in place so you can sword fight against a friend or shoot at each other. Since there isn't anything in place my buddy and I came up with drunk dueling where we place barrels in front of us turn around drink some grog give a 5 count turn around then try and shoot the barrel in front of the other person.

Thats a cool idea, i never tried the drunk duel. Need to rember that one for next time.