I agree. I get that it is a pirate game, but a lot of people don't even pick up voyages. They join the game and immediately start griefing any and every player they see. Yes, it was advertised as PvPvE. However, it was also advertised that you could choose to "work with" other pirates but NOBODY does that. The seas have quickly devolved into the dark zone from the Division. "Attack anyone and everyone you see. Period." 4 of the 7 people I play this with won't even get on anymore. There is little point if you are going to spend hours collecting loot, just to get griefed, lose your loot and not have gained a single XP point from factions or a single piece of gold. Total waste of time. I don't see what harm it would do to offer a PvE only server. Then, people can choose to play however they feel like playing that day, maybe a "passive mode" like GTA5?
Aggressive PVP mentality is ruining this game
@juno-dawae I must say I disagree, I love the rush of having valuable cargo and the threat of other players taking it from me.
Particularly after a skeleton fortress when you're trying to load up as fast as possible.
@hastyimpala7784 I'm not sure how much it is used by other players, but I have read around here that there are some conventions about showing you don't want to take part in a fight.
Things like leaving your lights on night and day, raising your cannons, flashing your lamp at other players and of course using the mic to say you're friendly. I do it when I play solo, because I know I'm not enough to sink other crews by myself and it would take too much time and effort for a not guaranteed reward, but some players will totally ignore that and attack anyway, after all this is what the game drives you to do. You just have to be prepared for this possibility and be ready to run away or fight back at any given time.
For what it's worth, even while playing as a pacifist myself, I think this game would not be nearly as fun if other players couldn't surprise attack you. The thrill of playing solo, leaving your ship unattended for a minute, digging up a chest as fast as you can and running back only to see a galleon coming close is enough to make me think this game as so much potential :)
I mean, I've attempted to speak into the mic before. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. There are times when the enemy are in party chat, and even if you go into game chat to speak, they won't hear you. What I'm suggesting is a "visible" sign that you are friendly. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the game who feel the same way as you, and they enjoy the feeling of a constant threat. But then there are also people who don't have much time to play the game, and they don't want their last untold hours to be wasted by getting sunk by some random people. If done right, if you wanna sink some people, look for people who have a hostile flag. If the server is populated enough, you shouldn't have any problems finding people to take down.
@dewradley I give the point that its not enought time to fight against a galleon.
But it's more then enought time to know how to flee from it. And some times you cant do that. As in my example they trapet me on my ship as i was away to get the last pig. My point is not that it sucks to loose every tresure. Because it is a pirate game it is normal that something like that happens. But things like spawn killing or just kill the animels so the other guy left with just nothing is really not the way the PvP element of the game should be.
ps. i played like 15h on solo mission. As i mention i am more of an player who enjoys to play with friends. So i played like 30-35 h, and thats some thing to get basic knowlleg about the game.@david-do0m Yeah i also suggest something like a passiv mode. Its like you say. And no one would be harmed or loose the fun of the game.
@subaqueousreach said in Aggressive PVP mentality is ruining this game:
@tel-prydain said in Aggressive PVP mentality is ruining this game:
It's a pirate game... I get that. I like that.
But it's never a case of just STEALING something. It's always the death of the other player(s) and the sinking of the boat. Not to mention, now if they take whatever chests you dug up you're spawned miles away and have to travel for ages to dig up the rest.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but there needs to be something of a middle ground.
If we're stealing your treasure then you're likely to try and stop us from doing that. So we're going to kill you so that you can't stop us from stealing it. Issue is, you'll respawn unless we sink your ship, so we have to sink your ship in order to stop you from respawning in order to steal your treasure.
As a solo sloop I'd be more than happy to pay a 'tax' of my highest value item. Hell, I'd even hand over everything to avoid being sent to the wrong side of the world-map... But everyone is so trigger-happy that you wouldn't get the chance to negotiate. And it's more than just "sink them so they can't take revenge", people chase you even when you have no loot, or when your sole cargo is an empty chicken cage.
I genuinely worry that if the "shoot all the things" play-style is the ONLY play-style, the solo sloopers digging up the treasure will get sick of being rolled whenever a 4-person crew rolls up on them.A quick, dirty fix would be to give the 'workers' a small cash bonus whenever digging up a chest, catching an animal or killing a skelly captain... that way even if you're rolled later on it wasn't a total waste.
Then layer on a system where you get a bonus when handing in multiple items in quick succession - encouraging people to keep loot on board a bit longer so other players have something to pirate.Totally against adding any bonus/cash just for killing another ship/crew. If you're annoyed you're not being rewarded for PvP, then stop chasing the guy with a chicken and go find a proper mark.
Some pirates don't communicate, some do. I've met just as many players who shoot first, ask questions later as I have players who parlay and want to talk it out or negotiate.
As for when they're chasing you, how would they know what you have on board? The more you run the more you make it seem like you have something to lose. That just makes it more enticing to try and catch you. For all they know you could have 3 villainous skulls hidden behind the captains chair.
If all you have is a chicken cage, then who cares? Fight em off or go to the locker. There's no actual penalty for dying in the game and it only takes you away from what you were doing for a minute instead of an hour like a chase would.
@subaqueousreach said in Aggressive PVP mentality is ruining this game:
As for when they're chasing you, how would they know what you have on board? The more you run the more you make it seem like you have something to lose. That just makes it more enticing to try and catch you. For all they know you could have 3 villainous skulls hidden behind the captains chair.
I'll let people search the sloop. More than once I've say politely while they searched the boat... and in all three cases, once they established there was nothing on board they shot and sunk me anyway. Sooooo.... not a lot of incentive to hang about.
You offer no useful compromise - if you run, they shoot you. if you stay... they shoot you.
If all you have is a chicken cage, then who cares? Fight em off or go to the locker. There's no actual penalty for dying in the game and it only takes you away from what you were doing for a minute instead of an hour like a chase would.
Losing a PvP battle has no penalty if you're an empty PvP ship of murder-hobos... if you're actually on a voyage it throws you into the wrong side of the world and it can take 10-15 min to get back to where your mission is. In the case of merchant missions it renders the voyage impossible to complete.
I should reinforce here, I acknowledge and support other player's right to be murder-hobos. You do you. Just reminding the murder-hobos that if they want the game to be more than a overly-large arena and want stuff to loot, maybe throw a few of the little fish back and let them grow into big fish.The fact that there is no penalty for dying in PvP is actually something of a problem. It means there's never a single drawback for a crew of 4 who want to roll a single sloop. But adding a penalty there wouldn't be a good idea... there's n way of implimenting it that wouldn't hurt PvE'ers more.
Instead I think you have to go the other way and make completing voyages more profitable than pilfering (sort of in the way merchant missions already are). As I said before... give the voyage-takers a bonus for completing an objective, and a bonus for finishing multiple voyages in a single session (turning in bulk items at once); and maybe the PvPers will have something to loot next time they down a sloop.its genuinely been better the last week we have played!
But whenever we see a ship we still automatically assume they are on the attack anyway and coming to grief. Unfortunately that will be ingrained as how you play this game now, don't even attempt to interact with another crew, just keep your distance at all times. now you must always have someone on the ship, even if it's an outpost, and never sail near other ships ever.
I'ts a shame really, could have been a really fun, welcoming, social game. Hopefully they are going to implement some sort of social aspect to the game soon (why buy cosmetics if you never get to show anyone).
We basically just server hop till we see a skull fort. Then we know most ships will be preoccupied with griefing each other and that gives us a little bit of freedom to explore and enjoy the game the way it's meant to be played .
@tel-prydain said:
You offer no useful compromise - if you run, they shoot you. if you stay... they shoot you.
And what compromise would you like me to offer? I'm not Rare. I'm giving you the options that are currently available in the game. There are plenty of times I've been sunk so I just cancel one voyage and start another if going back seems too far out of the way.
As for the guys searching your sloop and then shooting you, like I said; Some people are peaceable, some people aren't. S**t happens.
@tel-prydain said:
The fact that there is no penalty for dying in PvP is actually something of a problem. It means there's never a single drawback for a crew of 4 who want to roll a single sloop.
I mean there's no drawback mostly because they outnumber you 4 to 1 and there's little you can do in that situation besides try and escape if you have something worthwhile. That's kind of the point of the solo runs though. Rare even says that you'll have a harder time playing alone.
That said, I agree that the voyages should give some reputation for digging up chests, beating skeleton captains and capturing animals, with bonus rep gained along with the gold for a successful turn in.
@bugsaboot said in Aggressive PVP mentality is ruining this game:
So you want a "safe" pirate game?
It sure isn't a Pirate game, its a Thieves game with people that look like Pirates. If it was a Pirate game Rare would have called it Sea of Pirates.
@juno-dawae I know its slow, but i turn in loot fast. Even mid mission sometimes. If I am doing a gold hoarder mission and have 3 chests on my boat and another chapter popped, im going to turn in real quick, even if its castaways. Im done losing rep lol.
@juno-dawae The constant fear of PvP is one of the absolute best parts of this game.
Given your racist meme name and avi, I'm not sure you're the best suited to pass judgement on trollish behavior.
@hastyimpala7784 said in Aggressive PVP mentality is ruining this game:
I mean, I've attempted to speak into the mic before. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. There are times when the enemy are in party chat, and even if you go into game chat to speak, they won't hear you. What I'm suggesting is a "visible" sign that you are friendly.
From the beta there was a small push to codify players intentions in-game. One method for displaying that you're a "friendly" crew was/is to raise all your cannons up in the air to show that you're not interested in firing.
I'd also imagine that running with your lights on might also be another indicator since it shows everyone where you are and allows them to avoid you if they choose.
But the problem with that, is it shows PvPers who the "easy" targets are. The people who are unwilling or unskilled at fighting (and thus are more focused on PvE loot gathering) will be seen as nice, juicy cash cows. So it's a balance.
Personally, I prefer to appear aggressive and dangerous up front to keep people away. It's basically the cold war deterrence method for me.
@holezinya Thank you SO MUCH, I needed to see this comment right now. So sick of hearing people complain about PvP. I never look for PvP but if people want to try and attack it's actually quite exciting to have to think of ways to turn in, or defend!
People don't seem to understand that there is a reason exp in this game is called reputation - it is literally your reputation as a pirate. if you can't defend what is yours you don't make the best pirate.
Moreover people need to change their mentality which I realised early on, you can't look at a map and think oh yes I'll find the chests! so much loot! You also can't find the chests and think: yay I'm rich! You have to think 'I may get nothing from this voyage, so I better sail my best and defend what I find till the bitter end, anyone could be out there, waiting to attack or ambush me, I can't rest until I have turned in my rewards, then and only then is the sweet booty mine.' People expect to be handheld too much..
It is called Sea of THIEVES, not Sea of FRIENDS :) (which would be quite boring in comparison..)
@funkefall29709 I made a suggestion to that effect here:
https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/49649/new-faction-combat-pvp
If interested.
Essentially I think you should also gain rep for being able to fend of attackers, or for sinking and stealing loot. I combined the idea of a bounty into it too but yea.. just an idea but I think it would be nice when attacked to at least know you can still gain rep by defending what is yours.
I am sick of it as well, but it is part of the game. I usually am able to spend an hour or so making money before people just start following me around for hours to try and get empty crates. I only do Merchant missions. I've said it before and I'll say it now, it is because people are sociopaths. Even when there is no reward for killing and sinking a crew, they want to do it. I literally will spent hours just driving around in circles until I get bored of being chased and have to lose all my stuff by scuttling.
What the devs should do, and I would love to poll this, is what they did in Elite Dangerous. They put system authorities. Maybe they aren't very good but have some Pirate authority on outposts and a few out in the seas. That way anyone who stole something has to fight through outpost security to turn it in. Or if you are chasing someone shooting at them and they don't shoot back, they can bring you towards and authority ship to help if they are aligned with you and if the person attacking you is aligned with them as well, they lose reputation with that faction.
But if people were mature enough to say that after chasing someone for 30 minutes, maybe they aren't catching them and go hit a shipwreck instead, we wouldn't have this issue.
@juno-dawae You signed up for a pirate game and are surprised people are actually acting like romanticized pirates, and then say it's ruining the game. It IS the game, guy.
Agressive PvP mentality.
Why does it happen?
Maybe because there's absolutely no 'soft options' like trading or diplomacy, bigger missions or quests to join together for.
But we have cannons, sword and shot....and thats it.What to do when only weapons are our only purposeful ship-to-ship language?
It's not the players fault, its the game.When I see another ship, I get exited. But why? When only a fight will occur, or a wave.
Why there is so little to do with the other ships in the game I'll never know.When diplomacy isn't an option: trade, pacts, quests, Aggression will take over. Because it then comes down to time restraints vs earnings...and guess what, in SOT at the moment diplomacy isn't an efficient option. How rubbish, but that's the truth of it. ✌
@david-do0m said in Aggressive PVP mentality is ruining this game:
I agree. I get that it is a pirate game, but a lot of people don't even pick up voyages. They join the game and immediately start griefing any and every player they see. Yes, it was advertised as PvPvE. However, it was also advertised that you could choose to "work with" other pirates but NOBODY does that. The seas have quickly devolved into the dark zone from the Division. "Attack anyone and everyone you see. Period." 4 of the 7 people I play this with won't even get on anymore. There is little point if you are going to spend hours collecting loot, just to get griefed, lose your loot and not have gained a single XP point from factions or a single piece of gold. Total waste of time. I don't see what harm it would do to offer a PvE only server. Then, people can choose to play however they feel like playing that day, maybe a "passive mode" like GTA5?
I do that man. I try to be nice to every pirate I meet at the expense of my own ship/life. If you want to play with people like that, add me. There are many of us and we are grouping up.
I've been saying that instead of a PvE server, they could do what Elite Dangerous does. Have factions that you join and have regional security forces and outpost security.
Example: If you are waiting on an outpost or off an outpost to shoot someone or kill someone or steal their loot, they will be waiting for you on the outpost and will attack you as you come in and maybe some AI on the outpost itself that will fight you.
Why should people who are either way better at fighting or have system advantage or using cheats on PC be able to just kill, sink and rob you and sell it off with absolutely no consequences? I love this game, but the PvP is crud. I consider myself to be amazing out at sea, amazing with finding locations and doing missions but I am just not generally that good at fighting. Should I be punished by having kids with nothing better to do follow me around for hours with nothing on board but empty chicken coops with no way to get rid of them but to either sink my own ship and loose everything, go off the map and loose everything or stop and fight and loose everything? There is literally no option for people like me. None.
Adding an AI faction of pirates or something would change that. Sometimes the storms are too far off to lead people too. Sometimes the powder kegs don't go off. Sometimes they are able to magically rotate and boost their speed when you've just tricked them and turned direction around a rock.
The only options this game leaves are to fight or to just give your stuff up to people who may be playing the game the way they want.
I am not sure how you guys are being beaten so often or so much through PVP. Last night I played for 3 hours straight got a bunch of treasures from missions and sunken ship. We only saw 2 other sloops and they didn't bother us at all. I played on Sat night for over 6 hours and saw very few other ships and only fought off one other ship. So I am so confused about all this crying over PVP.
@juno-dawae said in Aggressive PVP mentality is ruining this game:
Anyone else annoyed with griefers roaming the seas with their PvP mentality? All week I've played for hours every night.... Adhering to the pirate code while griefers do what they can to sink you at every opportunity to steal loot you've worked on for the past 2 hours to get.... Yes it must be fun folliwing people around to steal their loot on the way to the outposts..... Beautiful game but it's people with [mod edited] PvP mentality ruin it for others!!!!
The problem with this game and PVP is that there is literally nothing to do in it except PVP.
The three quest types were boring fetch quests to begin with. And there is no point in pursuing them anyway if you do not care about cosmetics, which many people don't.
Even if you do care about cosmetics the options are pretty limited and pretty boring overall.
I think the desire to make everyone equal may be a game breaker because there is no progression incentive. Especially in a game that promotes this as a fundamental design priority but then is cross server making "equal" impossible since PC players have such a in game advantage.
@juno-dawae i gave a galleon that was hounding me soloing the gift of the red sea and many sharks about 30 min ago lol. they were never gonna stop the chase it had been 45 mins so out of bounds i go. scuttled the ship for good measure after 3 of their crew jumped aboard and all fired a blunderbuss at the same time. i left the ferry to find them floating deep in the red sea surrounded by sharks. im not bitter, they got nothing for 45mins agro 👍
@talentedwheat12 said in Aggressive PVP mentality is ruining this game:
@juno-dawae You signed up for a pirate game and are surprised people are actually acting like romanticized pirates, and then say it's ruining the game. It IS the game, guy.
False. Pirates almost never attacked other pirate ships.
If this game had NPC merchant ships to avoid or NCP naval ships to avoid then not only would it reduce Pirate vs Pirate PVP but it would be a more compelling and more "Piratey" game.
At the very least they need to add a Privateer faction to give structure and purpose to PVP.
@juno-dawae But the point of PvP is to steal that loot regardless of how long you spent getting it. There are ways to avoid them though (parking on a side of an island that is concealed from view of other ships.
@juno-dawae Yes, constantly. You will also find the people here who say no are probably the ones doing the griefing or are only playing Galleons. Everyone has a different experience on this game; one guy said he'd only been attacked once, and his server was usually empty or had only one other ship. I can only wonder if he lives in Igloolik Canada.
As a solo Slooper I have only played a couple times where I was able to actually complete quests and turn in my finds.@david-do0m i personally love robbing people like a ninja, i board the ship, take the most valuable and leave. i dont wait to kill them or try and sink the ship if i dont have to but thats just one way to play. if you have ever come back to your ship or gone to an outpost and thought..hold on i m sure i had one of those, i may have visited 👌
@edemardil You hit the nail on the head!!
SOT should be the pirate equivalent of Elite: Dangerous!
Oh my god, could you imagine Braben if he was making SOT?
It'd be splendid.@dr-jameson-junk said in Aggressive PVP mentality is ruining this game:
@perfecshionist This is based on the hollywood pirate fantasy though
Even Hollywood knows pirates attacked merchant ships and tried to avoid the Navy. The fact that this game has neither is going to continue to be a problem because it means every ship to ship engagement risks alienating more players. This is particularly true with cross server making the engagements feel more "unfair" than they should.
PVP has a place in this game but when it is really the ONLY thing fun to do it means that the player base is always going to be cannibalizing anyone trying this game and alienating more and more players over time.
There has to be a place where players can hang out and socialize. There has to be some other NPC/Ships to add more variety and play opportunities to this game. There was to be more sea life and life on land. There has to be more quest types. More factions. MOre ships.
There has to be a way to feel connected to the world by making the servers feel like places rather than a box of sand you visit for a few hours and cannot impact in any way.
