Penalty for planking same hole multiple times

  • SansSariph
    Lord
    Insider

    Inspired by a thread on hull health by @HaxxorSauruz here: https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/51190/ships-need-a-health-system-to-promote-better-naval-combat

    I think a good way to incentivize good cannon hits over the standard barrel + board, and also make the attrition-heavy naval combat a bit more interesting, would be to penalize you for having to plank repeatedly. If you are getting severely outgunned you shouldn't be able to keep afloat just by planking at the same rate you get shot.

    For example, every time you plank the same hole it could take 50% longer than the previous patch - or, it could require you to plank it over twice (the first time cuts the water flow by only 50%). Next time require three planks, still leaking after the first two. Three planks is also a magic number because if you have multiple tier 3 holes, you have to hit up your supply barrel after each set of patches which makes it even more likely you'll sink unless you dedicate more crew members to patching.

    This way in a galleon vs sloop situation where the sloop is wailing on the galleon with cannons and not getting hit much in return, eventually the galleon won't be able to keep up with repairs and sink. Right now it's too easy to have one guy on patch duty and just keep repairing until one ship runs out of supplies or a barrel gets snuck on board, which isn't super exciting.

    You could represent this in game by having three or more "tiers" of hole that gets more ragged and/or noticeably larger each time. A tier 3 hole requires substantially longer to plank (and/or 3 planks), and each time the same hole is ripped open it upgrades to the next level. Give an option at Outposts to repair your ship and make it good as new. To discourage "drive by" repairing a galleon during a chase, the shipwright could require you to keep your anchor set within range for 60 seconds with no additional damage while she works on the hull.

    Bonus: this might teach me to be a better driver if it takes longer to plank each time I beach myself on an island ;)

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  • SansSariph
    Lord
    Insider

    On the "repair" side of things one of my friends had the idea of the shipwright selling tar patches which you could use to reset/downgrade one of these aggravated holes.

    This has the added bonus of letting you keep the battle-scarred look of your ship when you repair instead of resetting to a clean hull.

    You could potentially also find these in shipwrecks or floating among barrel debris on the open sea. Make them either carried bundles (like gunpowder) or single slot inventory items (so you get one max per player), and limit to one spawn per shipwreck/barrel cluster to avoid letting them get stockpiled too easily.

    Exciting limited use utility items (like gunpowder, or these patches) make exploration more exciting!

  • SansSariph
    Lord
    Insider

    I slooped with a buddy for a while today and we got into two extended dog fights with other sloops. The rub is that neither of these fights were decided by cannon fire. Both crews landed hits but were just able to keep on patching and circling and firing and patching and circling until one of us ran out of cannonballs. Not super excited.

    In the second encounter we got bored of the "fire + patch" cycle and went for a ram + board and immediately ended the conflict.

    It's really a b****r that naval combat isn't more important and the only way to decisively end a fight most times is with a well-timed powder barrel or boarding and killing the crew in person. Those should be viable strategies but I'd like to see cannons be more impactful in an attrition war.

  • ByF8thThruGrace

    I agree, would make naval combat much more interesting. Cannons seem useless in this game other than a tool used to wear down the other ships supplies.

  • Wildeyedjokr
    Rogue

    I kind of wish it took more than one 2x4 to fix a hole.

    Especially when half of that hole is still exposed after I slap it on.

  • Perfecshionist
    Seafarer

    @wildeyedjokr said in Penalty for planking same hole multiple times:

    I kind of wish it took more than one 2x4 to fix a hole.

    Especially when half of that hole is still exposed after I slap it on.

    Why? How would holding a larger board change the mechanic? It would function the same just look different.

    And if your excuse is "realism" please remember;

    We use bananas to heal bullet wounds.
    We shoot ourselves out of cannons.
    We shoot muzzle loaded ball and powder weapons underwater...

    I can go on but you get the point. Realism =/= good gameplay. Or at least it rarely does.

  • FuzzyPyrate
    Master
    Insider

    @byf8ththrugrace said in Penalty for planking same hole multiple times:

    I agree, would make naval combat much more interesting. Cannons seem useless in this game other than a tool used to wear down the other ships supplies.

    That's the idea. Overwhelm your oponent until they run out of resources.

    The fight is then yours

  • Wildeyedjokr
    Rogue

    @perfecshionist said in Penalty for planking same hole multiple times:

    @wildeyedjokr said in Penalty for planking same hole multiple times:

    I kind of wish it took more than one 2x4 to fix a hole.

    Especially when half of that hole is still exposed after I slap it on.

    Why? How would holding a larger board change the mechanic? It would function the same just look different.

    And if your excuse is "realism" please remember;

    We use bananas to heal bullet wounds.
    We shoot ourselves out of cannons.
    We shoot muzzle loaded ball and powder weapons underwater...

    I can go on but you get the point. Realism =/= good gameplay. Or at least it rarely does.

    I was more so going off of "Multiple Planks", single ones leading to small leaks and etc.

    If I wanted to go for "Realism", i'd have put a lot more into my comment than what I did.

  • ByF8thThruGrace

    @oneeyed-w1lliam
    Thats the point i think. the way it currently is, is somewhat lame compared to what it could be. now Its not a battle about cannons and accuracy and actual naval combat skills. its a battle about attrition and boarding to shoot people to prevent them from boarding because you can board just as fast as you get shot. Plus, nobody wants to exchange cannonfire in circles for 20 minutes waiting for someone to deplete 100 planks. so 9/10 its just a game of raming and gunpowder barrels and boarding

  • SansSariph
    Lord
    Insider

    @oneeyed-w1lliam said in Penalty for planking same hole multiple times:

    @byf8ththrugrace said in Penalty for planking same hole multiple times:

    I agree, would make naval combat much more interesting. Cannons seem useless in this game other than a tool used to wear down the other ships supplies.

    That's the idea. Overwhelm your oponent until they run out of resources.

    The fight is then yours

    Yeah, and ultimately I think that's the right design, my main problem at the moment is the 1-1 ratio of planks to cannonballs. If I have 100 cannonballs and you have 100 planks, you are likely going to be fine. I can land every single shot (which would be amazing accuracy) and you are not going to sink 99% of the time unless someone boards you.

    Even if I have 300 cannonballs you might not sink because I will land some redundant shots on the same hole before it gets planked.

    I think that's a little disappointing and that there should be some sort of downside to turtling up with planks in a galleon until the aggressor is out of shots, because right now the ball-to-plank exchange rate seems to be too heavy in favor of the defender.

  • xxBRYTExx
    Founder

    I was completely against this idea until i read your explanation. If this function was implemented, which would be an interesting dynamic, it would also need the "repair at outpost" feature you mentioned.

  • ByF8thThruGrace

    @sanssariph good point about not all shots hitting thus giving the defender the advantage in resource stalemates

  • Rezerekterr
    Rogue
    Founder

    This is good but id say slightly tweak some of it.

    1st hole is how it is now 1 plank 3ish seconds,
    2nd hole is still one plank but double the time to 6ish seconds.
    3rd hole is 2 planks each with 6ish seconds, good idea with the 1 plank cuts water flow in half.

    and the ship wright repair system is perfect anchor nearby for 60 seconds and then your good, I don't know about having a fee though just talk to her and its free. And to be honest I don't even think they need to change the "hole" design maybe just make it a bit bigger I guess.

  • I Am Lost 77

    @sanssariph i like you tiered damage idea. I can see it working like this:

    Everytime a hole without a plank gets hit it increases the planks required to fix it by 1 (up to 3). If it has a plank(s) on it then the plank(s) just gets blown off same as the current system. This system would reward player for being alert and repairing early but still be vulnerable to an accurate enemy cannon crew. (This could also make hitting the middle deck of the galleon 3 times cause it to start leaking water instead of doing literally nothing and give inventive to repair it)

    I have posted a similar idea and other ideas here: Improved ship layout, better ship combat/damage, more ships, and larger more fluid crews I’d appreciate you checking it out. SoT defiantly needs a combat overhaul for sure I’m tired of pumping 10 cannons in quick succession with little effect.

  • Schluebricant
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    The majority of ship vs ship fights that my friend and I have won while playing on a sloop (while playing together, I can't speak for him playing solo) have been won by one on the cannon putting shots and holes in, and the other boarding the ship and just harrassing/distracting the repairmen so the ship goes down.
    We have, but it's rare, won just by putting cannonballs in them, but I'm assuming that's only because they ran out of wooden planks. Can't think of any other way they'd have lost.
    I'm always telling him how weird it is to put so many shots into a ship and it still be floating. Clearly winning a naval fight but in the end losing (or quitting) because we ran out of cannonballs while they're still repairing and still missing 90% of their shots gets old. Normally I just try to avoid ships for that sole reason.

  • Lord of Goats
    Master
    Insider

    Aim for the guys on the cannons occasionally. It seems to work pretty well, especially sloop v sloop.

    Galleon v galleon, though, almost always comes down to attrition or boarding, which, if you don't let them board, means a 2 hour chase.

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