Rival War Factions(A Solution To PvE and PvP?)

I don't see how labeling ships with a faction would really do anything to the gameplay. People will just ignore the faction label, and you'd still have the gameplay as it is now. Kill all and everyone, loot or no loot.

@prodigy-burns said in Rival War Factions(A Solution To PvE and PvP?):

@buckshot-matt That's the absolute worst case scenario though if you read I mentioned several reasons players would be less inclined to target neutral players. Of course ignoring the function in the game is always an option, but we're not trying to restrict play. I'm trying to make it easier for players to identify each other as well and giving incentives to award healthier play.

I think players would have more fun if there was more of an incentive to play cooperatively, but for people who just like to sink ships, which I'm guessing a lot of people only play this game to do just that, they would argue making no changes to the game because they love sinking any ship. Factions could work if players of the same faction could not sink/kill each other, but instead work together to fend of enemy ships. But in a gaming environment where there is no good reason not to sink any ship, ships will be sunk regardless of faction. I think forts could be more fun too if you were able to muster your faction to take a fort on and fend of enemy ships cooperatively. Instead of the best crew winning a fort (whether or not they earned it), it would be the best faction winning it. More people fighting cooperatively instead of against each other. Forts aren't designed that way though, so I think it's a missed opportunity on Rare's part to implement something more fun for more players. Who knows though. I have hopes for SoT in the future. Now, I'm just kind of not really digging the game atm. Maybe in the future, I'll have more interest in it. A lot of people would say, It's a pirate game, It's PvP, and they are right. I picked the wrong game I guess. Maybe in the future it will be more than just a PvP pirate game.

@prodigy-burns "I think I found a solution for Sea of Thieves PvE/PvP problem"

The only problem are the whiners complaining about PvP, in a PvPvE game... There's no real problem, what the hell are you talking about? xD

"We would have two rival factions, let's say the French Navy and British Navy."

Already rejecting your idea here... It's a pirates game, getting navies or even loyalties involved kinda defeats the purpose of a PIRATE game

"Players who are interested in PvP combat will have the OPTION to join one of these two rival factions before the start of the game. These factions will be populated purely by players, not npcs."

Uuh, what? You mean a player-hosted faction? As in, the players assing reputation to eachother or something? I'm sorry what?

"This will allow PvP oriented players to distinguish from PvE oriented players."

Not a faction then, more like PvP-flagging.

"The major benefit for the PvP players will be they are rewarded for attacking enemy ships. The beneift for the PvE players will be that PvP player will be less likely to target them out of fear of enemy intervention."

Not very piratey leaving merchant ships alone, now is it? Again this defeats the purpose of a PIRATE GAME.
Pirates aren't nice to merchant ships, in fact they prefer to attack them as they tend to be easy targets.
The purpose of the game is that people should have FUN trying to AVOID having their treasure stolen whilst also trying to steal other peoples treasure... That's the entire premise of the game... To be a pirate... Being a pirate means attacking AND robbing SHIPS.

"However ships will still have the option to attack anyone regardless of the faction they choose and of course attempt to rob each others ships. I wanted to allow this as it means neutral ships remain a wildcard which can lead to interesting encounters."

PvPers aren't going to give a c**p about your "faction" in that case... In short your suggestion doesn't change anything, making the change pointless. The point of sandbox freedom is that you can do whatever you want.

People play this game because it's a true pirate game, if you in any way try to rob the game of the Pirate factor, this game will wither and die because people lose interest. Now seeing as your suggestion doesn't rob the game of the pirate factor, your suggestion has literally no effect and will not make the game easier for PvE players, nor will it make the game more fun for PvP players, it just clutters the game with pointless game mechanics.

"It's an idea that makes it easier for players to engage like minded individuals purely through incentive."

Except the game already does that... Seeing as it's a game about being a pirate, it attracts other players who also want to play as a pirate.

The only problem between PvE and PvP are the minority of the PvE playerbase getting angry over having their loot taken by pirates, which is kind of the entire point of the game.

In other words, their complaints, are not considered relevant, seeing as it has nothing to do with the premise of the game itself... If they want to play are merchant/transport in a pirate world, they need to learn to accept that pirates will occasionally try to attack them and steal their cargo.

This game isn't about being a merchant owning a transport ship, it's about being a pirate... You have the freedom to play as you want, but this a pirate game first and foremost, if any PvE player has a problem with that, they came to the wrong game...

These PvE players complaining about the pirates in Sea of Thieves, is like going into the forest and complaining that there are trees... It's hilariously stupid. xD

If you are playing a pirate game, you don't have the right to complain about the pirates, you made the decision to start playing this pirate game, so you signed up for pirates! xD

So no, there is no PvE/PvP problem, this is a PvPvE game about being pirates... Can't handle it? Go play something else, jeez.

@prodigy-burns I do like this idea and o think it would be cool if it worked, I'm not entirely sure how they'd be able to do it but it sounds really cool. The only thing is it can't be the navy, the whole point of this game is that it's the free open seas of pirates and no one else, the navy wouldn't work in a sea dominated 100% by pirates, unless they tried to conquer outposts and that's too extensive of the power those factions should have

@prodigy-burns Also I think it would have to be NPC ships for the factions cause throwing people in there makes so many possible problems very likely to occur. But the main thing I like about this idea is that it gives the seas some flesh. My view is that there should still be some moments of solitude in the game where you're just sailing the calm waters with no one around cause that's still a nice part of the game, the problmes is that's basically all of the game. Most of the time you should be able to see things happening around you, and more than just the occasional ship sailing in the distance. Seeing a fleet moving here and there, or some NPC ship battle raging on, that sounds cool

@prodigy-burns "I find your idea of a pirate to be somewhat limited."

It's based on language... The definition of the word "pirate".

A pirate is a very specific thing, in the same way a murderer is a very specific thing, mate...

The more definitions a word has, the less it means... if the word pirate also meant "A person with a headache", as well as "a human being" then... the word loses meaning, get it?

My idea of a pirate is just as limited as the definition of the word pirate is, this is a good thing.

"Pirates were also privateers and did do mercenary work"

Well yes, but this isn't a privateer game, nor is it a mercenary game... Repeat after me: Sea of Thieves is a PIRATE game. xD

A doctor can be a stripper in his spare time, but not all strippers are doctors.

Privateers were military contractors, they only attacked ships they were authorized to attack... They're no more pirates than an actual military-owned ship is.

Technically speaking, military-owned ships did attack and rob pirates, which through that logic means they are also pirates.

Except here's the deal... Pirates are criminals by definition... This way we can rule out privateers and military-aligned admirals etc, as they are not considered criminals by the government/country they work for, hence they are not pirates.

@prodigy-burns said in Rival War Factions(A Solution To PvE and PvP?):

@sweltering-nick "a doctor can be a stripper in his spare time, but not all strippers are doctors."

Horrible analogy as both professions take an obviously different set of skills I would not trust a stripper to be my docor. If you can be a pirate it stands to reason you can be a privateer however as you're essentially doing the same thing, but with a different title. Yeah privateers were not allowed to attack any ship they chose, but in my defense this is a GAME.

There are actual cops that use their cop uniform for stripping... Your bias against strippers is irrelevant. xD

Any yes, any pirate can BECOME a privateer, and any Privateer can become a pirate once more... But as long as they are a privateer, they are not a pirate, as they are pardoned by the government they work for. : /

Sorry man, privateers aren't strictly pirates. : /

@prodigy-burns said in Rival War Factions(A Solution To PvE and PvP?):

@sweltering-nick No they're still pirates after becoming privateers, they simply aren't deemed as such as by their respective government. If a pirate/privateer ship were to leave allied territory the opposing enemy as well neutral ships would still view them as pirates.

Using that logic, any seafaring vessel that isn't allied with your government would be a pirate, even seafaring vessels from other governments... In which case, the title of pirate loses meaning, as it applies to everyone on the sea.

Do you see the problem here? Privateers are military, they're not pirates... Propaganda from enemy perspective is irrelevant. They may see privateers as pirates, but that still doesn't make them pirates...

For instance i may see you as an idiot, but does that make you an idiot? Of course not.

@prodigy-burns "A definition that's easily applicable to privateers, neither term is mutually exclusive."

You have heard of those captains and admirals that are not privateers and also perfectly fit that description, right? Military people... Seeing as we're going to ignore the "criminal" part of being a pirate, the entire naval section of the military fits the description too, laddie.

Do i need to say this again, or are you finally going to comprehend the point i am trying to make here? :P

@prodigy-burns Well yeah Rare might not want it but it's the only way to do it. Because otherwise you have members of the fleet acting like complete idiots, going off doing their own thing, or firing on the fleet's own ships. Platers can't be controlled unless it was a dedicated objective based mode but keeping to the open world the only way to make it work would be to have NPC's on the fleet ships and you'd just be helping out in those missions

@prodigy-burns You're not even paying attention to what i'm saying, lol... Waswrong witchu?

"In your view pirates are strangely limited to working alone"

Not even close.

"and attacking random vessels which is factually not the case."

And factually not what i'm saying.

"Your definition clearly doesn't match the textbook definition"

For any person who's paying attention, yes it does.

"so to be blunt ther's no validity to your claim that a pirate and privateer must be these two separate things."

Yes there is, for the very reason that a pirate and privateer have different definitions, and for another reason that pirate and privateer are not the same bloody word, omg.

@prodigy-burns "I'll hear out any of your argument about negative impacts of gameplay, but this is essentially a "cat" vs "feline" argument."

Nope... Oh god how much i wish you just googled the s**t you claim... That would be so nice. But since you refuse to educate yourself, i'm forced to try and convince and uneducated stubborn fool the difference between a military contractor, and a criminal that attacks and robs ships.

But hey, why would you educate yourself? I bet you think that if you stay ignorant, your arguments will keep looking good, right?

Except pretty much everything you say is irrelevant given your lack of knowledge on the subject.

I'll say this one last time... A privateer is not a criminal, and can therefore not be, a pirate.

This is indeed a discussion about semantics, so trivializing my arguments by calling it semantics just makes you look like an idiot, dude... Even in semantics, there is right and wrong... It's like walking into a science class and listening to a teacher explain how a chemical reaction works and you just scoff and say "pfeh, that's just science". :P

We're speaking English, right? Then let's stick to English definitions, shall we? That's the one thing we have in common, your personal perception of privateers? Completely irrelevant. :P

I suggested that in the menu when we determine the crew size, we would vote on how the crew aligns their business with. The vote result would be indicated by the background colour of our flag on top of the main mast. Based on result our business would either involve PvE activities or PvP activities.

Paired with the suggestion in this topic, the outcome would be much more interesting. We could see British, Spanish and other crews divided into factions presented by countries. Then giving how they align, they would be further titled privateers, buccaneers, pirates and alike.

However, the mere gold penalty suggested is not very imaginative. I would like to see some immersive variables in play that involve situational dependencies instead. For example, just adding a respawn delay isn't immersive enough, but the Ferry of the Damned was a splendid way to add it into the game.

However, I think the ship spawn frequency might need to be tweaked in order to make the suggestion in this topic to work well enough.

@prodigy-burns

pirate
ˈpʌɪrət/Submit
noun
1.
a person who attacks and robs ships at sea.
"a pirate ship"
synonyms: freebooter; More

Let's take a look at the word "rob" shall we?

rob
rɒb/Submit
verb
take property unlawfully from (a person or place) by force or threat of force.
"he tried, with three others, to rob a bank"
synonyms: steal from; More

Pirates have to be criminals...

Now seeing as privateers have been sanctioned by their government/highest authority to attack enemy ships and ALLOWED to take whatever spoils they find for themselves, they're not doing anything unlawfully are they? They're not committing any crimes, they're literally just participating in war... Just another soldier.

I stuck to the definition... It's just that YOU didn't know the definition, 'cus you don't pay attention... Even though i've been telling you multiple times, it just doesn't enter your skull... probably still hasn't.

Your mental gymnastics are probably still preventing you from learning something new...

Analyze language, don't just lazily make claims.

"but it's not the book definition"

It absolutely is.

"it's YOUR definition."

Nope.

"I gave you the straight up definition"

Yes, you did, except you didn't pay attention to it, did you? Your reading comprehension is rather shallow.

"And if that teacher had any shred of credibility he would agree it's science, but he'd say the "science of composition," for clarity."

You totally missed my point there, l**o...