SHIP RESPAWN mechanics NEED to change. Design ideas thread.

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    Ok, this needs to change. As seen in many other threads like this
    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/31650/ship-spawning-needs-a-serious-change

    First, my story, then my idea on how to solve this.

    I've done many skeletal forts, many of those had combat with other ships, but clearly those crews knew to stay away when they got quickly destroyed. However, last night I saw the worst of the ship respawn system destroy my 4 man crew. Came to an active skeletal fort first, was there for about 10 minutes killing skeletons.
    Galleon sighted, we sink them when they get close.
    Sloop sighted, we sink them when they get close.
    Each time they sink, I see them respawn within view range with my spyglass at the nearest outpost. About 5-6 minutes of sailing away from us. I was the one keeping lookout in the crows nest, I timed them. It was obvious it was them too because they had the same paintjob on their ship.
    After 2 hours, we have sunk the galleon and the sloop 3 times each. The 4th time they came back they sunk our ship because we were out of supplies. I was able to stay alive on the skeletal fort by hiding among some rocks. Once the galleon and the sloop parked near the island and came ashore I used a gun powder keg to sink the galleon by exploding it underneath and boarding it to kill the two guys on board. Then I went to the sloop and killed the two guys on board, though one of them detonated a gun powder keg just to kill me, sinking his sloop in the process, BUT WHAT DOES IT MATTER, THEY HAVE INFINITE CLOSE PROXIMITY SHIP RESPAWNS! I just felt good about showing them one more time who is the better crew by sinking both of them a 4th time before going to sleep.

    This just demonstrates how much the SHIP RESPAWN system needs to be changed. I get that revenge is part of the pirate theme, but come on, this was just straight up stubbornness and abuse of the current system of CLOSE PROXIMITY SHIP RESPAWN.

    Here is my solution. Add a list of counters to each spawned ship. When one ship sinks near another, add the winning ship to the list on the losing ship.
    The first time they sink near the winning ship respawn as normal.
    The second time they sink near the winning ship respawn twice as far away.
    The third time they sink near the winning ship respawn three times as far away.
    The fourth time they sink near the winning ship respawn 4 times as far away.
    You get the idea. Here is that idea visualized.

    I would even say that this is probably a little too tight. I made those respawn circles in increments of 4 squares, I think maybe it should be more like increments of 6 so after getting sunk a second time you spawn really far way, and if you get sunk a third time then you are almost on the other side of the map.
    Every time you sink, you spawn 1 band further away. Currently you always spawn inside of the green band.

    If anyone else has ideas, post them below.

    @SavageTwinky Suggested that sunken ships float their supply barrels to be looted, this would help with the attrition problem.
    @twitchtv-mohky Suggested moving crews that died repeatedly to the same crew to a different server, though this might be a bit extreme.

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  • Vavume

    @cows-n-muffins Would it not just be easier to make every ship respawn be at least 8 squares away?

  • CupOHemlock

    I disagree. The current system is fine.

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    @vavume I'll take any range increase over the current system. The reason I do not like a static range is because a dynamic range like this will actively work against people who are looking to attack the same ship over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... You get the idea.

    Besides, I remember Rare mentioned somewhere that they were thinking about adding a bounty system for dangerous player crews. I'm sure they would appreciate c**p crews spawning further away every time they get sunk. Otherwise, having a bounty on you just means that you will die a slow and painful death of attrition to endless respawning enemies. At least if they spawn further away they need to hunt that crew again.

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    @cupohemlock Do you have any supporting arguments for that claim?
    @cupohemlock said in SHIP RESPAWN mechanics NEED to change. Design ideas thread.:

    I disagree. The current system is fine.

  • CupOHemlock

    @cows-n-muffins said in SHIP RESPAWN mechanics NEED to change. Design ideas thread.:

    @cupohemlock Do you have any supporting arguments for that claim?
    @cupohemlock said in SHIP RESPAWN mechanics NEED to change. Design ideas thread.:

    I disagree. The current system is fine.

    No, it is an opinion, like everyone else.

  • McDougle99
    Founder

    the issue i imagine is coming from missions generally being issued to islands near to where you vote on them. that being said i would be lying if i said our crew hasn't had a few moments of being p****d off by the spawn system, recent example was taking on a pirate fort and having a duo sloop constantly attacking us/sinking and then returning over and over and not giving up.

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    @cupohemlock Then it sounds like your opinion is poorly informed. You do not need to search far on the forums to find many threads detailing the abuse of the current system. This is a design thread, contribute ideas on how to solve the problem or please go to another thread, thanks.

  • CupOHemlock

    @cows-n-muffins said in SHIP RESPAWN mechanics NEED to change. Design ideas thread.:

    @cupohemlock Then it sounds like your opinion is poorly informed. You do not need to search far on the forums to find many threads detailing the abuse of the current system. This is a design thread, contribute ideas on how to solve the problem or please go to another thread, thanks.

    Ah.. well I see it like this. Your design efforts are not needed.

    Maybe Skelly forts should be at risk for repeated attacks, otherwise they are too easy. You wanted needless evidence for my opinion, so there it is. You are welcome.

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    @cupohemlock Again, poorly informed. This is not just about skeleton forts. Many threads detailing the same problem have nothing to do with skeleton forts. Such as the thread I linked in this very thread, which you clearly did not read.

  • CupOHemlock

    @cows-n-muffins said in SHIP RESPAWN mechanics NEED to change. Design ideas thread.:

    @cupohemlock Again, poorly informed. This is not just about skeleton forts. Many threads detailing the same problem have nothing to do with skeleton forts. Such as the thread I linked in this very thread, which you clearly did not read.

    Nor do I intend to. I read your rambling OP and that was sufficiently time consuming.

  • Mohky5536
    Marauder

    @CupOHemlock
    No, it's not... It's sometimes fun, like we did a skeli fort yesterday, and we were sinking a sloop and a galleon in the process, each like 4 times. It felt like sinking 8 ships, wich is cool of course, 'yeah we got another one...'

    But its annoying if you're running out of supplies, because the same loser-ship is coming over and over and over again, just to get sunk. And after like 4 to 5 times, u run out of planks. That's stupid.

    If you're a pirate and you die, and your ship gets sunk... You just have to accept defeat.

    I think the easiest solution would be to let every ship spawn on a new server.

    Players can respawn, ships face perma-death. If you get sunk, u get kicked from the server and have to join a new session.
    Simple and effective.
    Of course, you can't get your loot to an island to get it later... but that would not be a big loss. It hardly works anyway... If i sink a ship, i watch out where they go, i kill em, and i get the chests they're trying to hide everytime...

  • Capitan Toxic
    Sailor
    Insider

    I think they need to come prepared to the skull fort, and if they get taken out they need to spawn so far it's not even worth coming back. That's how far they need to be.

  • Mohky5536
    Marauder

    I think the easiest solution would be to let every ship spawn on a new server.

    It would also be one reason to care about the ship... People scuttle thier ships to get 2 more cannonballs, or beach it on every island, because it just doesnt do anything if u lose it.
    There should be at least some value to your ship. Even if its only your active voyages that u lose, it might be a start...

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    @cupohemlock Lol, suit yourself. I will not argue with your ignorance of reality further when you have no argument to make outside of your opinion. I'm sure others will have actual ideas to contribute.

  • Tropoebus
    Sailor
    Founder

    @cows-n-muffins said in SHIP RESPAWN mechanics NEED to change. Design ideas thread.:

    After 2 hours...

    I spent almost 6 hours in the same battle with different ships...

  • Smketreez

    I'll say this, I'm all about PvP. I seek out treasure, and I defend what I've taken.

    However, killing the same ship over and over and....over is borderline annoying. Example, last night we started capturing a fort, few waves of skellies later a galleon approaches, they were swiftly sank. Few minutes later same galleon returns, sank again. Few minutes later...you get the point. We sank that crew 18 times. At the end we were out of boards, out of cannon balls, and had no ability to continue to defend. We were sunk. They got our loot...or did they?
    We returned, fresh shiny ship, sank them. Took our stuff back, and the cycle continued until we cleared the fort. Took our loot, and left. That 18 times thing also isn't an exaggeration. I legitimately counted them.

    The first respawn should be close by, if you die again you get moved farther away, die again you're moved even farther. The more you lose the farther away you go. The current system rewards players for just hammering the better foe until they deplete them of everything.

    I'm all for fighting, but I don't want to kill the same people again and again until they rage quit. It's not fun for either party involved. Move them away. If they want to make the voyage back fine, but that atleast gives the defending team time to recover before being hammered by brand new shiny ships repeatedly.

  • CupOHemlock

    @cows-n-muffins said in SHIP RESPAWN mechanics NEED to change. Design ideas thread.:

    @cupohemlock Lol, suit yourself. I will not argue with your ignorance of reality further when you have no argument to make outside of your opinion. I'm sure others will have actual ideas to contribute.

    It is probably for the best. An argument is an intellectual process and based on your posts so far, you are not equipped to battle with me.

    Go ahead and design away.

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    @twitchtv-mohky I think a different server is a bit too extreme. It is a solution sure, but people should have at least a couple opportunities to take a fort from another crew. Which is why I personally lean toward the increased respawn range.

  • Grumpie Bear29

    @cows-n-muffins
    I’d like to see them bounced to a new server after being killed and sunk twice within 30-45min, but I can see there are some issues with this. Honestly I think a ship that sinks should drop supplies in addition to fixing the respawn problems. The current war of let’s slam our ship into them over and over until the more experienced crew runs out of supplies and then we can finally win is stupid.

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    @cupohemlock Lol, keep trying.

  • lumpaywk

    isnt the point that you have to fight other crews? from the op post it seems you may be good at sinking other ships but suck hard at tactics! if they meep spawning let them have the fort do all the fighting then steal it from them after!
    this isnt broken your just not thinking dynamically.

  • CupOHemlock

    @cows-n-muffins said in SHIP RESPAWN mechanics NEED to change. Design ideas thread.:

    @cupohemlock Lol, keep trying.

    I don't have to. I already won. Now go focus on changing the game the suit you.

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    @lumpaywk Let's say they do that. If the other crew gets the key, what is to prevent them from just sailing away from you forever and off the map edge? Clearly they have the time to grind hours away respawning and dying, you think they won't just run for several more hours?

  • Grumpie Bear29

    @cupohemlock
    They should be at risk for repeated attacks. Not by the same crew over and over that runs you out of resources because they’ve attacked 4 times. If you want them to be contested. Great. They usually are. Boot the players from the server after they’ve been sunk and killed twice and bring in a new ship. If the new ship wants to fight for it fine, so be it but at least I’m not stuck killing the same players over and over and over. It’s so boring to massacre a crew 4-6 times.

    My crew and I haven’t had a crew take a skeleton fort from us yet, but it’s a total snooze fest to have the same crew slam their face into you just to get destroyed over and over until your supplies are gone.

    Worst case scenario rare needs to make the sunken ship drop supplies so they can’t respawn with new supplies and come back. Either that or the ships need to spawn with no supplies when you die on a skeleton fort so you have to stock up on the way back and can’t just sail back with 20 banana, boards, and like 45 canon balls

  • Mohky5536
    Marauder

    @cows-n-muffins
    I really like your concept, but i feel like its a lot more work to get this into the game then just 'cyanbearding' the losers...

    ...and if you go for a skeli fort, you should NOT have multiple attempts imho. Come prepared... care for your ship, watch out for others, then you will need only one. And if another crew is better, or just more lucky than you... well that's life.

    We did the same thing yesterday, we went for a fort and got sunk there.... we went there again and again, and by the 5th time we won. We managed to kill the waves and captain really fast and got the loot.
    But it didn't feel like winning, getting sunk 4 times. We were just bad, but i think we just stayed up longer then the enemy crews. Hell yeah, win by enemies' mum telling them to go to bed... truly heroic.

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    @grumpie-bear29 Don't feed the troll, he is just trying to stir things up for no reason.

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    @twitchtv-mohky Like I said, it is a solution, but I think it is too extreme to punt people to different servers, lol.

  • SavageTwinky
    Master
    Insider

    @cows-n-muffins said in SHIP RESPAWN mechanics NEED to change. Design ideas thread.:

    @cupohemlock Again, poorly informed. This is not just about skeleton forts. Many threads detailing the same problem have nothing to do with skeleton forts. Such as the thread I linked in this very thread, which you clearly did not read.

    It depends on how you define a problem or as a gameplay mechanic

    It should be easier to restock after a fight, the other ships supply barrels should float to the surface and you can restock by pulling barrels onto your ship. Because the problem is you can't resupply your ship as fast as they spawn. And that's abused.

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    @savagetwinky Solid idea. I'll add that to the main thread. That would actually help solve the attrition problem that ultimately kills the better crew that kills the respawning ship over and over.

  • CupOHemlock

    @grumpie-bear29 well I agree that the same crew revenge thing is a pain. It happened to us last night. In the end we ran out of resources and had to decide to scuttle or retreat.

    I could go for the sunken ship spawning with limited or no supplies, but that is the extent of my opinion. The current system makes you hit hard, be prepared and have more skill than those pretenders who get in your way.

  • CupOHemlock

    @cows-n-muffins said in SHIP RESPAWN mechanics NEED to change. Design ideas thread.:

    @grumpie-bear29 Don't feed the troll, he is just trying to stir things up for no reason.

    Are you still here? I was pointing out that your ability to think and argue are limited. I did everyone a public service.

  • Mohky5536
    Marauder

    @cows-n-muffins
    why is it extreme?
    the only difference is that u can't go for 'revenge', and lose your active voyages.
    What is it about revenge anyway?
    Never heard of a legendary pirate who got KILLED, his crew got killed, his ship got sunk, his treasure stolen, BUT THEN HE WENT FOR REVENGE... well, i havent heard this story, because 1. he didn't, he was dead, and 2. he got killed, his crew killed, his ship sunk, his treasure stolen... he wasn't legendary after all.

  • Cows n Muffins
    Master
    Founder

    @twitchtv-mohky I think at least half of the Pirates of the Caribbean plots are about dead pirates seeking revenge.

  • Bornforexile05
    Seafarer

    @cupohemlock said in SHIP RESPAWN mechanics NEED to change. Design ideas thread.:

    I disagree. The current system is fine.

    Found the guy that doesn't do skeleton forts :D

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