Another topic about progression in Sea of Thieves

I enjoy progression... That said, power progression always ruins mmo pvp with a huge grind just to hit base level competitiveness...

That said, games like guild wars acknowledged that, but still provided ways to customize or side progress... To be more niche or specialized vs more powerful..

I agree that within SoT, it seems like you can't do ANYTHING, and every pirate is equal to every other pirate... In the sense they all have a sword and a gun and nothing unique about them whatsoever...

That to me is kind of dissapointing. I get the not wanting power creep, but it didn't seem like they did anything to allow you to be different from any other room in the game... And that base loadoit is pretty boring

@nickynick420 said in Another topic about progression in Sea of Thieves:

That said, power progression always ruins mmo pvp with a huge grind just to hit base level competitiveness...

This just isn't true though, is it? Power progression is essential in most games in order to retain the player base and ensure people feel rewarded for investing their time. The idea you allude to about having rather barren starting equipment is seemingly unreasonable when you are unwilling to give notion to one of the only possible solutions.

No one has said that there needs to be a dramatic difference in power for the game to feel rewarding, only that some platform/scale needs to be made, to give players the impression that their actions are meaningful, besides that of clothing and cosmetics.

I am on the fence on this.

While I LOVE progression and feeling more powerful as I grow in a game - I don't think the game should go that direction heavily.

I wouldn't mind some upgrades - but overall, I think that the benefits we should gain with experience should be non-combat oriented (it'll impact, but it isn't the determining factor) and/or our growth is solely versus PvE.

For instance, I could get a sword that freezes skeletons ... but against other pirates it is just a sword.

Or

I should be able to increase my skill at loading a cannon.

Or

I should be able to increase how much water I can get with a bucket.

Or

I should be able to decrease how long it takes me to repair a hole.

@nickynick420 I see what you're saying, however it doesn't have to be as heavy handed as MMOs. The gap between players in MMOs is easier to notice because the combat in those games rely on single target, lock on casting (for the most part). Sea of Thieves however has combat that is far unlike that as you're in ships. Say if you had a better sail that could make you go 30% faster, you'd still need skill to be able to control it to its full extent. If you had better, heavier hitting cannons, you'd still need to be able to make them hit for the damage to be apparent. This still requires skill as well as experience and so it could also mean that players who are naturally better could outplay and sink a bigger ship, if given the right tools to do so and if they have skill.

Also the upgrades don't have to be massive, just have about 3, then players who are behind won't be discouraged because they know that they could achieve the same things of they play a little longer.

Have schematics you can find as rare drops or as messages in bottles that allow for further upgrades and better customisation. This would again actively encourage players to explore more and do more quests.

@captainsloopdog I agree with this, it shouldn't loads and loads of upgrades added but ones that give boosts to certain attributes. However the game has made distinctions between the three playtypes with the addition of factions. The gold hoarders for treasure hunters, the mystic guys for PvE (forgot their name) so why shouldn't these different factions act as merchants for upgrades that reward players for playing in the styles that reward those factions with treasures or skulls or trade contracts.

I don't want to see power progression for one reason. I've played MMOs and I absolutely HATE vertical-progression PVP because newbies get completely stomped by veterans with absolutely no chance of success. Most MMOs I've seen let you toggle this PVP on and off, but Sea of Thieves does not and SHOULD not, as the biggest threat to your journey is another crew. If Sea of Thieves had power progression, in a few months, Day One players would have a big incentive to hunt down newbies to steal their treasure, with little to no risk to themselves. that is outright unfair and (I know from experience) NOT fun.

@glacefrostclaw did you read what I said in one of my replies, you can't compare sea of thieves to something like world of warcraft because of the way the combat allows room for more skill based maneuvers and accuracy rather than items giving you DPS. While on paper that's what the items are doing, the application of those items in PvP would still require skill in order to utilise the items properly (faster sail meaning higher skill in sailing etc.)

@glacefrostclaw
What alternative do you recommend instead in order to retain players to a game so vacant of content? The 'progression' system they currently have in place is nothing more than a treadmill glorified behind the veil of a reputation system where your only rewards are different coloured buckets...

@lennyreynolds you're still giving statistical advantage to older players. If they've played for a while, they already have the skills to play the game.

@glacefrostclaw
Why shouldn't players who have devoted their time to a game have subtle advantages to those who haven't? People who are new to games have to realise that they cannot walk into a new environment and expect the world to fall at their knees. Gold, reputation, upgrades should not come easy, but they rightly should be noticeably rewarding for those who wish to invest in it.

Having those who are better at the game (whether statistically or skill), will only further develop the community, allowing more situations to play out that are just not currently being seen at all (the chance for parlay/conversations). Rather than the current dull reality of 2 minute ship battles that don't go anywhere, before leaving to find more chests.

In short, I agree with this.
I also feel that many people forget that everyone is NEUTRAL until they decide to be aggressive and become the enemy. That's extremely important to remember. How is a pirate title going to tell me anything if I don't know the rank of the titles and don't forget that seeing the title only comes with being close enough to said pirate to be killed. Cosmetics is not enough. A LARGE fancy ship should clue me in to what I'm getting involved in.

Lastly, since everyone is neutral killing pirates and being aggressive should come at a cost/reward (think the Division Dark Zone) where you become, for example, wanted and bounties are put on your head. There should be rewards for collecting bounties, and rewards for how long you have a bounty on your head. Can you imagine pirate crews banding together to track down active bounties? Becoming well known through written tale... This would add wonders to the game experience for everyone!

100% need progression. Don’t get me wrong I love the game at the moment as well, but I can imagine doing the same stuff over again is going to get boring. There needs to be upgraded damage on weapons and boat upgrades - something to aim towards otherwise it’s going to get boring very quickly. You need to be able to buy things to give you an advantage. If some people think that’s a problem then why not get rank matched lobbies? Everyone has the same opportunities to get the same items so I don’t see why that should be an issue at all. At the moment I just feel like there’s nothing to aim for.

@glacefrostclaw said in Another topic about progression in Sea of Thieves:

@lennyreynolds you're still giving statistical advantage to older players. If they've played for a while, they already have the skills to play the game.

At this point you should just make sure you don’t fall behind, or get matchmaking.

@hammers679 that is the problem with power progression. it literally becomes a newbie-stomper. This game is SUPPOSED to be about community. You know how a ton of people are hating on the game because they're getting stomped in PVP as it is? Imagine how bad it will get if people that have played for a while have a literal advantage over people joining for the first time.

@glacefrostclaw
You can shout "Community! Community!" until you're blue in the face. The fact of the matter is, there will not be a community if something isn't done about the void, embedded within the structure of the game play, that will inevitably cause people to lose interest.

@nouzie291 there are a lot more people having fun with this game as is than most people seem to think.

@glacefrostclaw
I wasn't contending that fact was I? I was saying that the majority of people who are currently playing, you included, will soon become very disinterested in the repetitive nature of the game, if no change comes about from the developers.

@nouzie291 no I'm a roleplayer and am willing to make friends. I'm playing this game for the long haul. Also the devs already said they're going to add stuff as time goes on.

@glacefrostclaw
So should you really have a place in this discussion at all then? You know... being a roleplayer and all...

Can hardly see how the above changes would effect your type of 'game play'.

I'm starting to think this game needs two modes. PvE and PvP, but distinctly different and not necessarily meshed together. Vertical progression based PvE, horizontal based progression in PvP.

Instancing the PvE portion, where you can't be attacked by other players, once you enter a threshold near an island it converts strictly to PvE so you can take on harder elements with better weapons, sharing the loot with everyone involved. This could also be done with PvE vs. NPC vessels in instanced sea battles at some point in the future?

To keep the PvP element alive, take the trips back as an opportunity to reap rewards from attacking others. Make it necessary to sail to resupply through contested areas that have open world PvP. Rewards wouldn't be based on what their PvE treasures were, but a reputation based attack system. The more notorious a boat is (a collective reputation system of all current crew members) the more rewarded you are for taking them down.

This would be a great opportunity for those who aren't huge on PvP at least get involved with it voluntarily for potential rewards if they can feel it's not going to ruin the PvE aspect of their gaming.

I personally think this could be a win-win for everyone.

@nouzie291 just because I roleplay doesn't mean I'm ok with getting my teeth kicked in by someone who no-life's the game and gets the "best items in the game".

@steveboddy exactly. Literal stat progression is unnecessary. They just need to add more to do for the people that want more to do, which I'm pretty sure they intend to do in the future, but we'll have to see.

@nouzie291 how is that ironic? Are you saying that because I roleplay, I have no life? Because that's really insulting. What I mean by "no-life" is playing as much as absolutely possible, only taking breaks to eat and sleep.

@v**a-hombre said in Another topic about progression in Sea of Thieves:

Except most games with vertical progression that aren't strictly competitive, the PvP element is opt in.

In a game like SoT, where PvE and PvP coexist seamlessly, such simple cut and paste mechanics are too problematic.

My point exactly.

@cardshark-360 alright I apologize, as I did get a bit out of hand.

@lennyreynolds said in Another topic about progression in Sea of Thieves:

But what's the point in having a mass of gold

For a pirate, that is the point.

@mr-willliams THIS! I get people that don't want older players to have a statistical advantage but there are a couple points against that. A, the gap doesn't have to be so big that newer players don't even stand a chance and B, the game's premise is about becoming a pirate legend. A legend shouldn't have the same firepower as a sailor, it's common sense.