ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?

  • benderhover6969

    Just to state the obviously missed aspect of something. We have a great series of movies based upon pirates in the past 15 yrs. Maybe a lot of you can or need to go watch these again. Part 3 showed a brotherhood of pirates vs genocide. While yes the pvp aspect of this game is hilariously fun, but there is a fine line between pvp which should be competitive and griefing which is what the misunderstood version of pvp we have in this game is. Its one thing to engage players, its another to consistently prevent another player from enjoying the game the also purchased. Ive seen a few instances where discord groups as large at 16 players coordinate an entire server and blockade any other players attempt at fun. Sure, id love to engage a group guarding an outpost. If i win great, if i lose, my bad, but to 100% prevent a player from then continuing on to enjoy the game, well that's just a mistake Rare made by not putting in some diminishing returns to prevent griefing.

    Some form of penalty to griefers would solve this problem in an instant. Hreck, you could create a bounty system with npc's that police this behavior. If you grief someone more than 2 times, a large group of soldiers could come out and wipe you out, or place you into a prison on an island far from the area you griefed said other players for a period. Something simple, something that doesn't deter actual competitive pvp.
    GTA had a solutioon that semi worked. If you were a person who's idea of fun is to ruin everyone else,s you got put into a server with no one but those like you. A similar system would work here as well. Its not that we don't want pvp, we dont want to be harassed, we all pay some form for this game. (aside from game pass trial users) but that system is in place to lead those people to actually buy the game. If the trial ends and people have a sour taste to the pvp aka grefing, they won't pay to support the game and it will die very quickly.

    Either way, Rare its up to you to deal with griefing and quickly, this game doesn't have all that much in game content as is, the pvp is the draw, but if its not actual pvp and just a bunch of basement dwellers stroking egos, its not going to have a snowballs chance in hell of lasting a few months.

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  • CptnCuttlefish
    Founder

    I don't see the griefing all that much. The map is huge, just go to different waters. If they camp, go to a different outpost. If they camp your ship, scuttle it and spawn somewhere else.

    There are ways to keep other from griefing. All rare has to do is let others know how to do them.

  • Willy Pordobel
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    I have no issues with PVP or getting my pirate butt handed to me on a plate by a 4m Crew when I'm solo, its gets the heart pumping :)

    Just when that Crew then spend the next hr simply trying to kill you over and over, you have no loot, so its seems pointless.
    I read on IGN website that SOT uses a server migration system to keep players from being in a server alone.
    Perhaps it could also move you if the same crew has killed you a few times :)

    IGN post

  • JJblackhat
    Marauder
    Insider

    LOL - This game is really going to separate the PIRATES from WANNABEES. :p

  • benderhover6969

    @cptncuttlefish said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    I don't see the griefing all that much. The map is huge, just go to different waters. If they camp, go to a different outpost. If they camp your ship, scuttle it and spawn somewhere else.

    There are ways to keep other from griefing. All rare has to do is let others know how to do them.

    Guess you didnt read the discord part of my post. This group admittedly said they purposely coordinated and held down all outposts on a server. One guy bragged about setting gunpowder at the tent to turn in chests and hid waiting for anyone to go and turn in. While amusing, fine, 1 time, get your laughs, move on. You have a choice, support real competitive pvp or support griefing, I assure you the griefing end will be the death of this otherwise fun pvp game.

  • EndoSku11
    Founder

    Over 12 hours gameplay.

    Have never seen outpost camping.
    Have never been griefed on my ship

    Great battles - chases and escapes.

    I'm on pc. Never seen any of the complaints I keep seeing in this forum and that includes beta.

    I would be curious to know if all the camping crying is coming from xbox players?
    Or are some of you just really lousy at rerouting to another outpost when you see trouble ahead?

  • CptnCuttlefish
    Founder

    @benderhover6969 I won't lie, I didn't read the whole thing. Too many threads hate the game right now that I instinctively skim and miss important bits. I apologize for this.

  • benderhover6969

    @endosku11

    You do realize pc and xbox do play on the same servers right?
    Being on pc doesn't put you in pc only servers. Its MS new idea to have both platforms coexist.

  • EndoSku11
    Founder

    I am aware.
    I was just wondering if Xbox players get matched first with xbox players.

    @benderhover6969 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @endosku11

    You do realize pc and xbox do play on the same servers right?
    Being on pc doesn't put you in pc only servers. Its MS new idea to have both platforms coexist.

  • benderhover6969

    @cptncuttlefish said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @benderhover6969 I won't lie, I didn't read the whole thing. Too many threads hate the game right now that I instinctively skim and miss important bits. I apologize for this.

    Dont get me wrong, i love the pvp in this game. Its not 1 shot deaths, its actual technically designed. I just can't stand immature behaviors when ive dumped $65 into something I otherwise do enjoy.

  • Willy Pordobel
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @jjblackhat said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    LOL - This game is really going to separate the PIRATES from WANNABEES. :p

    Its not about separation, that not the issue. No one here has a problem with PVP. the ship combat it amazing.
    The issue is when that is abused to the determent of another players experience in the game.

  • benderhover6969

    @endosku11 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    I am aware.
    I was just wondering if Xbox players get matched first with xbox players.

    @benderhover6969 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @endosku11

    You do realize pc and xbox do play on the same servers right?
    Being on pc doesn't put you in pc only servers. Its MS new idea to have both platforms coexist.

    I play on pc, with a group who all play xbox, so it may be dependent on certain criteria.

  • Klikhizz
    Seafarer

    Yes, it is a Pirate game, and I have no problem with the inclusion of PvP as part of that. However the goal of a Pirate game should be the accumulation (and protection) of your loot not specifically PvP. And this is my complaint about the PvP as it stands. A crew of 4 killed me and my wife and chased us from island to island ... for no reason other than to do it. They gained nothing (except whatever bannanas and such they could loot from the barrels on the ship since they never let us actually LOOT anything for them to steal ... nor did they gain any loot in that time because they weren't trying to ... all they were trying to do was prevent other people from playing. This is they type of playing that the game should, at the least, discourage as the only thing it succeeds in doing long term is driving off players.

  • JJblackhat
    Marauder
    Insider

    @willy-pordobel said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @jjblackhat said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    LOL - This game is really going to separate the PIRATES from WANNABEES. :p

    Its not about separation, that not the issue. No one here has a problem with PVP. the ship combat it amazing.
    The issue is when that is abused to the determent of another players experience in the game.

    There is no ABUSE... PIRATES WILL BE PIRATES - UNFRIENDLY MOST OF THE TIME. BE MORE PIRATE

  • benderhover6969

    @klikhizz said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    Yes, it is a Pirate game, and I have no problem with the inclusion of PvP as part of that. However the goal of a Pirate game should be the accumulation (and protection) of your loot not specifically PvP. And this is my complaint about the PvP as it stands. A crew of 4 killed me and my wife and chased us from island to island ... for no reason other than to do it. They gained nothing (except whatever bannanas and such they could loot from the barrels on the ship since they never let us actually LOOT anything for them to steal ... nor did they gain any loot in that time because they weren't trying to ... all they were trying to do was prevent other people from playing. This is they type of playing that the game should, at the least, discourage as the only thing it succeeds in doing long term is driving off players.
    +1000

  • Rildan

    @benderhover6969 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    Ive seen a few instances where discord groups as large at 16 players coordinate an entire server and blockade any other players attempt at fun.

    No you haven't.

  • CptnCuttlefish
    Founder

    @benderhover6969 no, I totally understand. It hasn't happened to me so I can't relate to every outpost being locked down like that. All I can say is change servers, it's about the only thing you can do at the moment. Rare is too busy working out bugs they hadn't know to prepare for, but hopefully they'll figure out the grief problem afterwards.

  • EndoSku11
    Founder

    And somehow in hours of play I have magically avoided it all?
    Not that hard to reroute - or shake a pirate looking to reap your rewards.
    I play alone - I play smart
    I play with a crew we play smart.

    Really I don't get these threads - I feel like I'm either playing the game smart - or I'm just amazingly lucky.
    I'll keep playing to find out I guess...

    @willy-pordobel said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @jjblackhat said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    LOL - This game is really going to separate the PIRATES from WANNABEES. :p

    Its not about separation, that not the issue. No one here has a problem with PVP. the ship combat it amazing.
    The issue is when that is abused to the determent of another players experience in the game.

  • benderhover6969

    @rildan said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @benderhover6969 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    Ive seen a few instances where discord groups as large at 16 players coordinate an entire server and blockade any other players attempt at fun.

    No you haven't.

    Yes, I have. Go attempt trolling elsewhere kid. You failed miserably.

  • VoicedNormal
    Captain

    Both type of players (Pvp/Pve) need the same opportunities to enjoy the game, rare don't need to favor some specific type of player.

  • Willy Pordobel
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @endosku11
    yes, I agree you don't understand the thread :)
    Yes, I agree with you 100% that its not hard to reroute, shake of that Galleon, or check that outpost for hostiles before off loading that booty :)

    The sad truth is that people will kill others over and over, not for the loot, just for the fun of killing them over and over. that isn't Being more Pirate.
    That being more griefer.

  • Sytoki
    Marauder
    Insider

    @benderhover6969 And I guarantee you these people are going to be the ones crying while everyone else becomes pirate legend because they’re wasting their time. I already prevent my crewmates from sinking 90% of the sloops we see because I know they’re a waste of my crew’s time. These guys may think they’re good coz they’re going after. Sloop over and over but don’t be confused, these landlubbers couldn’t stand a chance against my crew.

  • Rildan

    @benderhover6969 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @rildan said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @benderhover6969 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    Ive seen a few instances where discord groups as large at 16 players coordinate an entire server and blockade any other players attempt at fun.

    No you haven't.

    Yes, I have. Go attempt trolling elsewhere kid. You failed miserably.

    Tell me, how did they all join the same server? They can't, so quit your Bull**** OP.

  • EndoSku11
    Founder

    Easy - since the game has been on and off every few hours...
    You just login log out login log out login lot out
    error - error - error - error

    And then if you get in a game and the other players on your discord aren't there you...

    You just login log out login log out login lot out
    error - error - error - error

    And then if you get in a game and the other players on your discord aren't there you...

    @rildan said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @benderhover6969 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @rildan said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @benderhover6969 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    Ive seen a few instances where discord groups as large at 16 players coordinate an entire server and blockade any other players attempt at fun.

    No you haven't.

    Yes, I have. Go attempt trolling elsewhere kid. You failed miserably.

    Tell me, how did they all join the same server? They can't, so quit your Bull**** OP.

  • benderhover6969

    @rildan said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @benderhover6969 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @rildan said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @benderhover6969 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    Ive seen a few instances where discord groups as large at 16 players coordinate an entire server and blockade any other players attempt at fun.

    No you haven't.

    Yes, I have. Go attempt trolling elsewhere kid. You failed miserably.

    Tell me, how did they all join the same server? They can't, so quit your Bull**** OP.

    Same way my crew and 2 others do. Maybe learn how matchmaking works. Start party on Xbox, invite party to game. System searches for game open enough to accommodate. Also simple since its only 12 per party to invite a few friends from your friends list. Hence why they use discord so all can communicate at once. But wouldnt expect the slow to grasp a simple concept.

  • TheRealDestian
    Ship Mate

    @benderhover6969 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    Ive seen a few instances where discord groups as large at 16 players coordinate an entire server and blockade any other players attempt at fun.

    Umm...how?

    You can't see the names of other players in the instance with you outside of your crew, meaning that your only option for communicating with other ships would be to sail close enough to them and shout, "HEY, WE HAVE A DISCORD IF YOU WANT TO GRIEF PEOPLE!". The odds of being able to even get close enough to say that initially are slim, and it's even further unlikely that 4 of the 6 ships in an instance (which all need to be galleons for it to amount to 16 players) would agree to this.

    I'm sorry, but unless there's some secret means of either seeing the names of or communicating with everyone in the instance that I'm not aware of, I have to call BS on this...

  • benderhover6969

    @therealdestian said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @benderhover6969 said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    Ive seen a few instances where discord groups as large at 16 players coordinate an entire server and blockade any other players attempt at fun.

    Umm...how?

    You can't see the names of other players in the instance with you outside of your crew, meaning that your only option for communicating with other ships would be to sail close enough to them and shout, "HEY, WE HAVE A DISCORD IF YOU WANT TO GRIEF PEOPLE!". The odds of being able to even get close enough to say that initially are slim, and it's even further unlikely that 4 of the 6 ships in an instance (which all need to be galleons for it to amount to 16 players) would agree to this.

    I'm sorry, but unless there's some secret means of either seeing the names of or communicating with everyone in the instance that I'm not aware of, I have to call BS on this...

    Call it whatever you want, they themselves even posted on these very forums bragging about it, im not doing the footwork, go find it yourself.

  • stem589

    @cptncuttlefish said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    I don't see the griefing all that much. The map is huge, just go to different waters. If they camp, go to a different outpost. If they camp your ship, scuttle it and spawn somewhere else.

    There are ways to keep other from griefing. All rare has to do is let others know how to do them.

    Or just change servers.

  • Sorenthaz
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    Being a pirate has more to it than just PvP and if you think that PvP is the focus or that the game is meant to be all about PvP then you're part of the problem that will likely kill this game's PvE community.

    This "it's a pirate game, it's called Sea of Thieves for a reason" argument for PvP overrunning everything else is juvenile logic at best. Pirate movies, games, etc. in the past has always been more about the adventure and the freedom of being a pirate and fighting to protect that freedom. As a result the antagonists are typically governments, oppressive third parties (East India Trading Company, as an example), or pirates that break tradition and the normal pirate structure due to being cursed, becoming corrupt/greedy, or power tripping on mysticism and the like.

    Contrary to what people seem to want others to think on this forum, pirates weren't just at each other's throats all the time. They united under common ground, formed alliances/fleets under a captain or with multiple captains working together, and they adhered to a code which included parley. Also can't forget that they would build up pirate nations and the like, conquering territories and turning them into 'haven's where one could be free from the oppression of their country's government.

    So part of the allure of pirate games is also the romanticism attached to the pirate life, and that's something Rare has even talked about on numerous occasions. The PvP currently in the game is incredibly primitive, literally the most bare bones version one could have in a game. Worst yet, there are no consequences, there is no risk, and there is nothing stopping people from simply respawning and going back to hunt others. Not even Survival Sandboxes are that casually hands-off - almost all of them will have rough death penalties to punish failure.

    I don't understand how this is always brought up as a defense when the only argument is "it's a pirate game therefore there should be PvP as a focus". Pretty sure Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag was insanely successful without PvP as its focus.

  • FlowerOfCarnage

    @jjblackhat said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @willy-pordobel said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @jjblackhat said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    LOL - This game is really going to separate the PIRATES from WANNABEES. :p

    Its not about separation, that not the issue. No one here has a problem with PVP. the ship combat it amazing.
    The issue is when that is abused to the determent of another players experience in the game.

    There is no ABUSE... PIRATES WILL BE PIRATES - UNFRIENDLY MOST OF THE TIME. BE MORE PIRATE

    Pirates didn't attack other pirates. They attacked merchants. Pirates also didn't kill people for no reason, sink random ships for no reason or stand around on a dock shooting anyone who walked past. This isn't a game about pirates at all. It should be called SoG. Sea of Griefers.

  • Sorenthaz
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @flowerofcarnage said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @jjblackhat said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @willy-pordobel said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    @jjblackhat said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    LOL - This game is really going to separate the PIRATES from WANNABEES. :p

    Its not about separation, that not the issue. No one here has a problem with PVP. the ship combat it amazing.
    The issue is when that is abused to the determent of another players experience in the game.

    There is no ABUSE... PIRATES WILL BE PIRATES - UNFRIENDLY MOST OF THE TIME. BE MORE PIRATE

    Pirates didn't attack other pirates. They attacked merchants. Pirates also didn't kill people for no reason, sink random ships for no reason or stand around on a dock shooting anyone who walked past. This isn't a game about pirates at all. It should be called SoG. Sea of Griefers.

    Exactly. Even if we go by fantasy pirate movies like Pirates of the Carribbean, here are the typical main antagonistic factions/groups:

    1. Cursed pirates who are sewing chaos and attacking everyone indiscriminately.
    2. Oppressive governments.
    3. Manipulative merchants that threaten to extinguish piracy.
    4. Specific pirate groups that go against the pirate code/betrayed the protagonists due to personal greed, corruption, or power tripping off of mystical stuff.
    5. Mystic/voodoo shenanigans.

    If pirates actually did nothing but kill each other on sight all the time or fight over treasure, piracy would have been cannibalized way too fast. Instead pirate captains formed bonds/alliances and worked together to build up their own mini-nations and valued freedom above all else.

  • benderhover6969

    @sorenthaz said in ITs a pirate game, it should be about pvp? Right?:

    Being a pirate has more to it than just PvP and if you think that PvP is the focus or that the game is meant to be all about PvP then you're part of the problem that will likely kill this game's PvE community.

    This "it's a pirate game, it's called Sea of Thieves for a reason" argument for PvP overrunning everything else is juvenile logic at best. Pirate movies, games, etc. in the past has always been more about the adventure and the freedom of being a pirate and fighting to protect that freedom. As a result the antagonists are typically governments, oppressive third parties (East India Trading Company, as an example), or pirates that break tradition and the normal pirate structure due to being cursed, becoming corrupt/greedy, or power tripping on mysticism and the like.

    Contrary to what people seem to want others to think on this forum, pirates weren't just at each other's throats all the time. They united under common ground, formed alliances/fleets under a captain or with multiple captains working together, and they adhered to a code which included parley. Also can't forget that they would build up pirate nations and the like, conquering territories and turning them into 'haven's where one could be free from the oppression of their country's government.

    So part of the allure of pirate games is also the romanticism attached to the pirate life, and that's something Rare has even talked about on numerous occasions. The PvP currently in the game is incredibly primitive, literally the most bare bones version one could have in a game. Worst yet, there are no consequences, there is no risk, and there is nothing stopping people from simply respawning and going back to hunt others. Not even Survival Sandboxes are that casually hands-off - almost all of them will have rough death penalties to punish failure.

    I don't understand how this is always brought up as a defense when the only argument is "it's a pirate game therefore there should be PvP as a focus". Pretty sure Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag was insanely successful without PvP as its focus.

    For all those claiming its a pirate game, arrrrr, die!!! Ummmm, this game isnt based upon pirates committing genocide on their class of people, they worked together as stated above. You are correct. For those claiming its a pirate game, you're pointing to that being a fact of some sorts, correct? Besides the fact you're almost completely wrong, since alliances as stated above were true facts, I guess rallying to have Rare add the ability to as in the real world, as you all like to try to point to. We should get a sort of lockpicking technique to open chests or hell since we're looking for realism, I should be able to shoot a lock open or bust it off with my handy shovel. This would be a nice solution to prevent you people with the only sense of pride in life is to ruin other people's games.
    I mean, cmon, its reality now isnt ?

    Hmmm, reality you say? How about when you attempt to grief at an outpost, but it goes sour and you lose, lets add reality here as well while we're at it. You now get to spawn across the map since you lost. Sounds closer to reality cause we all know we cant just kill you off and expect you to as reality would state, be gone 100%.
    OR stop arguing stating youre idea of pvp which is actually called griefing is a immature move that will eventually hurt the game more than help it succeed.

  • LovableJesus
    Insider

    I played the betas and tech tests, and was excited to load up the full release game, and i wasnt disappointed. i adore this game, and when friends have slated it i defend it cause it has potential, RARE are new to MMO's so cut them some slack, they need time to work out bugs and new problems as they arise.
    That being said, with all this talk of griefers, i loaded up the game as solo, and was promptly followed by some Americans, who i could here over proximity chat. "to make my first experience so bad i quit forever." Dont get me wrong, i love a challenging sea battle, but a fully crewed galleon beats a 1 man sloop, so i ran. and they followed and killed me. i spawned anew and started questing. they found me and killed me. repeat repeat repeat. i tried to join new server but couldnt get in at that point, but first impression was this game is ripe for griefing. Need something implemented like GTA, or a bounty system that if you kill the same player more than two or three times a bounty is placed on you and a marker placed on your map after visiting a bounty board with a vague location on, and after that the more players you kill the higher the bounty and more precise your location is displayed

  • Wings Of Iron

    I agree that in-game punishment game-systems, small pushes from code to help "tweak" the community behavior a little bit, would not only alleviate some of the bad vibes around "novelty killing" as well as simply add more fun gameplay systems for players to engage.

    Who knows if that will ever happen. In the meantime, I would like to see a simpler fix to alleviate the novelty killing a little. Enable PvP only for those on an active voyage, for example.

  • benderhover6969

    @lovablejesus

    I dont mind the pvp, I just want to see the same risk vs reward implemented that another player who is just trying to turn in a chest deals with. Right now there is zero penalty for being a d****e. Meanwhile, there's a huge penalty for playing the game as intended. Open seas, fair game, 4 vs 1, no problem, adapt and learn. Trying to turn in a chest and get ganked by 8 to 16 players at once, problem.

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