This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.

I'd also like to clarify something (cant seem to edit posts).

If there were to be a non PvP server, that wouldn't mean there's no ship combat or anything, it would mean there would need to be AI controlled ships and such.

I realize that the game's staunchest fans seem to be against anything that would make the game any easier. I understand that. But something needs to be done to allow beginners to be hooked in before they throw down the controllers in frustration (or keybaords, for that matter). I don't mind a punishing game, but that can seriously wait until the player has been taught the mechanics, rules, etc.

(Okay, I found the edit button finally.)

My first time out I couldnt complete a single mission without being killed and ship sunk over and over again. This is just absurd for a new player.

@tahngarthor said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

I'd also like to clarify something (cant seem to edit posts).

If there were to be a non PvP server, that wouldn't mean there's no ship combat or anything, it would mean there would need to be AI controlled ships and such.

I realize that the game's staunchest fans seem to be against anything that would make the game any easier. I understand that. But something needs to be done to allow beginners to be hooked in before they throw down the controllers in frustration (or keybaords, for that matter). I don't mind a punishing game, but that can seriously wait until the player has been taught the mechanics, rules, etc.

(Okay, I found the edit button finally.)

My first time out I couldnt complete a single mission without being killed and ship sunk over and over again. This is just absurd for a new player.

Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with you. The tutorial isn't anywhere near close to even being in the same universe as "sufficient."

The game tells you about the controls in like one or two pop ups on the screen. That's all you get. You don't know what your purpose is, you dont know w hat the goals are, I didn't even know how to get a mission until an hour of floundering about.

Why are the people in this game so hateful towards new players? Why do they want people to go into a game having no idea how to play? is it because you like exploiting clueless people?

Maybe you weren't intending it, but your post really comes off as hostile. Instead of writing people like me off as scrubs, maybe you should be a bit more welcoming, and more open to people's ideas and thoughts. I'm particularly appalled that you implied my criticisms as a new player talking about how the game is presented to a new player are not valid. That is a really uppity, self-righteous and elitist attitude.

If you want this game to have players in a few weeks/months, it needs to try a little harder to keep them. I did a stream of this game and I ended it early because I got so frustrated. Shall I list the reasons?

After I finally figured out how to take a mission, I set off- i figured out how to get the ship moving and how to find my destination. I finally get there (and run the ship aground because i couldnt stop it in time). I spend like 20 minutes trying to figure out what im su pposed to do when I reach the X on the map. All the while im being killed by venomous snakes and simultaneously some other player or wh atever is blowing up my unoccupied ship. I get killed by the snakes before finding any treasure. Then after a trip on the barge of the dead I respawn right in front of a player who immediately kills me again.
after being killed three or four times just trying to find my FIRST MISSION OBJECTIVE, I simply gave up.
(Then the real fun begins when someone comes to my stream and offers to team up, and I have to wrestle with the horrible Xbox PC app to try to figure out how to add him and invite him to play, and then after all that, the game crashes)

I feel like I really need to emphasize here: I'm not against PvP. I'm not against a hard game. but the introduction to the game for the new player is absolutely atrocious. Let the player LEARN TO PLAY in a non-PvP environment. Have them complete a single simple mission with guidance. And then thrust them into the world with everybody else afterward. It's not a hard concept.

Cant you see how someone in my position might have felt burned? And now I'm feeling even more burned by a community that almost seems more hostile than the enemy players you run into...

@tahngarthor said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

@tahngarthor said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

I'd also like to clarify something (cant seem to edit posts).

If there were to be a non PvP server, that wouldn't mean there's no ship combat or anything, it would mean there would need to be AI controlled ships and such.

I realize that the game's staunchest fans seem to be against anything that would make the game any easier. I understand that. But something needs to be done to allow beginners to be hooked in before they throw down the controllers in frustration (or keybaords, for that matter). I don't mind a punishing game, but that can seriously wait until the player has been taught the mechanics, rules, etc.

(Okay, I found the edit button finally.)

My first time out I couldnt complete a single mission without being killed and ship sunk over and over again. This is just absurd for a new player.

Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with you. The tutorial isn't anywhere near close to even being in the same universe as "sufficient."

The game tells you about the controls in like one or two pop ups on the screen. That's all you get. You don't know what your purpose is, you dont know w hat the goals are, I didn't even know how to get a mission until an hour of floundering about.

Why are the people in this game so hateful towards new players? Why do they want people to go into a game having no idea how to play? is it because you like exploiting clueless people?

Maybe you weren't intending it, but your post really comes off as hostile. Instead of writing people like me off as scrubs, maybe you should be a bit more welcoming, and more open to people's ideas and thoughts. I'm particularly appalled that you implied my criticisms as a new player talking about how the game is presented to a new player are not valid. That is a really uppity, self-righteous and elitist attitude.

If you want this game to have players in a few weeks/months, it needs to try a little harder to keep them. I did a stream of this game and I ended it early because I got so frustrated. Shall I list the reasons?

After I finally figured out how to take a mission, I set off- i figured out how to get the ship moving and how to find my destination. I finally get there (and run the ship aground because i couldnt stop it in time). I spend like 20 minutes trying to figure out what im su pposed to do when I reach the X on the map. All the while im being killed by venomous snakes and simultaneously some other player or wh atever is blowing up my unoccupied ship. I get killed by the snakes before finding any treasure. Then after a trip on the barge of the dead I respawn right in front of a player who immediately kills me again.
after being killed three or four times just trying to find my FIRST MISSION OBJECTIVE, I simply gave up.
(Then the real fun begins when someone comes to my stream and offers to team up, and I have to wrestle with the horrible Xbox PC app to try to figure out how to add him and invite him to play, and then after all that, the game crashes)

I feel like I really need to emphasize here: I'm not against PvP. I'm not against a hard game. but the introduction to the game for the new player is absolutely atrocious. Let the player LEARN TO PLAY in a non-PvP environment. Have them complete a single simple mission with guidance. And then thrust them into the world with everybody else afterward. It's not a hard concept.

Cant you see how someone in my position might have felt burned? And now I'm feeling even more burned by a community that almost seems more hostile than the enemy players you run into...

You quoted yourself and then you said you disagree. So it looks like you are disagreeing with yourself. I think you meant to quote the poster that disagreed with your original post though. Also you couldn't find the edit button for posts. Do you need a tutorial for the forum? I think I know why the tutorial in game wasn't sufficient for you. Try paying more attention to details in things that you do. I'm guessing you're a person that rushes through things and then complains that you don't know what you're doing. Slow down and pay attention.

The game doesn't even allow you to draw a weapon till you reach that part of the tutorial. The human equivalent of a wet f**t was attacking me before I even got that far. That's like less than 15-20 seconds after joining for the first time I was being attacked by an outpost camper. I'm running away thinking W*F did they change the button for drawing your weapon? Lame.

"Why are the people in this game so hateful towards new players? Why do they want people to go into a game having no idea how to play? is it because you like exploiting clueless people?"

It's called "Eating your young", and lots of PvP-focused online games do it by accident. I happen to love the game as is, but I can plainly see that it's somewhat hostile to new players, and this is the complete opposite of what Rare said they were attempting to achieve.

I watched my wife play the game from scratch, she'd had no involvement in the beta or stress tests. She was completely clueless - the game does a terrible job of educating brand new players.

@tahngarthor
You sir need to attend Cooters school of pirating. If you want help hit me up and I can show you the ropes of you want!!

Firstly sorry you had a bad first experience.

This is a co-op game at heart the tutorial comes from other players. Join a full crew and use your mic and ask for help.

The game is about discovery, what happens if pull this rope, how does this work etc. My ten year old loves it.

@tahngarthor said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

For some reason it wouldn't allow me to post in the active megathreads discussing similar issues.

First, the "tutorial" sucks. Hardcore, it's terrible. The game doesn't tell you hardly anything about how to play whatsoever. My first time, I ended up wandering aimlessly around the island i started on, til it got dark. I saw this glowing skeleton thing in the water and I was curious so I went up to it, and I got spirited away to god knows where. I had no idea what i just did or what happened. The game then mentions something about missions but I didn't have any, so I was really confused.

I wander around til I find a ship, which I realize is mine, but just as I figure it out, i'm getting blasted to oblivion by another ship. At the time I didn't realize it was player controlled.

This is a horrible thing for a new player to go through. I was really excited to try the game, which was made out to me to be purely a co-op experience. I didn't even know it was PvP and ONLY PvP.

The devs have said they want as many people to enjoy the game as possible. In order to accomplish that, something needs to change here.

1. Tutorial. Put a real one in. A tutorial where the only player is you, and NPCs or something teach you the ropes. Seriously, why is there no tutorial? I can't repeat this enough.
2. There needs to be a no-PvP server. I am just getting started and I could not complete even the most basic missions available because of other player interference. I don't even get a chance to get started before getting blasted into oblivion. Easing the player in is crucial to keeping players. As it stands, I feel like I blew $60 on an overly punishing game that forces open PvP on me right from the get-go. It's not even that I don't like PvP, its just that I don't get a chance to learn the game before I have people trying to kill me.
   3)The initial menus where you "pick your ship" are confusing and really don't make it clear that what you're actually doing is picking the number of players you want to play with. It also is written in such a way that you feel punished for having fewer friends, oh, you want a cool galleon or a tiny sloop? Which would you choose?

1. You don't need a tutorial, everything explains itself! Less is more!
2. You don't need anymore severs, one choice is always the best option! Less is more!
3. You don't need information to base your choices off of, life is a risk! Less is more!

@redan-vir said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

@tahngarthor

I just took the time to re-watch the tutorial...

You're again being very hostile and rude.

You've already been through it, so of course you're going to know what to do. You're already biased. Just because you didn't have a problem, doesn't mean the process can't be improved. Why are you so dead set against the idea of having a new player coming into the game actually knowing how to play? That's all I'm asking for. I certainly hope you present a better attitude towards the new people who end up on a boat with you than you here (if that even happens, I 'm guessing it matches people by rank, which of courosoe further stacks the deck against the new player if true)

Even if I really wanted more than that, so what? How does it affect you if a bunch of other "p***s" who don't want to kill each other are on a seperate server from you? How does that impact your gameplay? It doesn't. There are clearly enough people here reveling in PvP, you aren't going to have a problem finding people to kill or get blown up by.

@mattydove74 said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

@tahngarthor said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

For some reason it wouldn't allow me to post in the active megathreads discussing similar issues.

First, the "tutorial" sucks. Hardcore, it's terrible. The game doesn't tell you hardly anything about how to play whatsoever. My first time, I ended up wandering aimlessly around the island i started on, til it got dark. I saw this glowing skeleton thing in the water and I was curious so I went up to it, and I got spirited away to god knows where. I had no idea what i just did or what happened. The game then mentions something about missions but I didn't have any, so I was really confused.

I wander around til I find a ship, which I realize is mine, but just as I figure it out, i'm getting blasted to oblivion by another ship. At the time I didn't realize it was player controlled.

This is a horrible thing for a new player to go through. I was really excited to try the game, which was made out to me to be purely a co-op experience. I didn't even know it was PvP and ONLY PvP.

The devs have said they want as many people to enjoy the game as possible. In order to accomplish that, something needs to change here.

1. Tutorial. Put a real one in. A tutorial where the only player is you, and NPCs or something teach you the ropes. Seriously, why is there no tutorial? I can't repeat this enough.
2. There needs to be a no-PvP server. I am just getting started and I could not complete even the most basic missions available because of other player interference. I don't even get a chance to get started before getting blasted into oblivion. Easing the player in is crucial to keeping players. As it stands, I feel like I blew $60 on an overly punishing game that forces open PvP on me right from the get-go. It's not even that I don't like PvP, its just that I don't get a chance to learn the game before I have people trying to kill me.
   3)The initial menus where you "pick your ship" are confusing and really don't make it clear that what you're actually doing is picking the number of players you want to play with. It also is written in such a way that you feel punished for having fewer friends, oh, you want a cool galleon or a tiny sloop? Which would you choose?

1. You don't need a tutorial, everything explains itself! Less is more!
2. You don't need anymore severs, one choice is always the best option! Less is more!
3. You don't need information to base your choices off of, life is a risk! Less is more!

I really hope you're being sarcastic. This game is going to die fast if they don't improve their retention rate. I've been on QA for a game that has re-done its new user experience more than once in an effort to make said game more welcoming towards new players, after their metrics indicated a high percentage of people who fail to complete the first level and further high percent that don't complete the first three, even though I personally thought it was easy. Their data was indicating people didn't understand certain aspects of how the game worked because the NUE did not teach it to them.

It just blows my mind how some ppl here could be against the idea of a better tutorial. IT DOESN'T NEGATIVELY AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY! If anything it means the people you meet along the way will be better informed and less likely to not be useful to you or quit prematurely.

@templar1980 said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

Firstly sorry you had a bad first experience.

This is a co-op game at heart the tutorial comes from other players. Join a full crew and use your mic and ask for help.

The game is about discovery, what happens if pull this rope, how does this work etc. My ten year old loves it.

I'm 34 years old. I'm glad your 10 year old didn't have a problem. But personally, I like to learn how things work in a game by myself before joining other players, so that I'm not a burden to them from the get-go. Why is that such a terrible thing?

@tahngarthor said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

@templar1980 said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

Firstly sorry you had a bad first experience.

This is a co-op game at heart the tutorial comes from other players. Join a full crew and use your mic and ask for help.

The game is about discovery, what happens if pull this rope, how does this work etc. My ten year old loves it.

I'm 34 years old. I'm glad your 10 year old didn't have a problem. But personally, I like to learn how things work in a game by myself before joining other players, so that I'm not a burden to them from the get-go. Why is that such a terrible thing?

It’s not a terrible thing but in a multiplayer co-op pvevp game like this is just the best way to learn is work with, communicate, and listen to other players. There is honestly not much to learn. Unfortunately you are striking me as combative and unwilling to make an effort to try so I will bow out of this thread and spend my time elsewhere.

@templar1980 said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

@tahngarthor said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

@templar1980 said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

Firstly sorry you had a bad first experience.

This is a co-op game at heart the tutorial comes from other players. Join a full crew and use your mic and ask for help.

The game is about discovery, what happens if pull this rope, how does this work etc. My ten year old loves it.

I'm 34 years old. I'm glad your 10 year old didn't have a problem. But personally, I like to learn how things work in a game by myself before joining other players, so that I'm not a burden to them from the get-go. Why is that such a terrible thing?

It’s not a terrible thing but in a multiplayer co-op pvevp game like this is just the best way to learn is work with, communicate, and listen to other players. There is honestly not much to learn. Unfortunately you are striking me as combative and unwilling to make an effort to try so I will bow out of this thread and spend my time elsewhere.

TO be frank, when I looked over the game on the Windows Store, it really didn't emphasize the fact that the game is 100% fully PvP. I might not have actually bought it if that was more clear. I just wanted a good pirate themed game and there really aren't very many good ones out there- and the ones that are, are too focused on being a simulation and lack a lot of what makes a game fun- This game has more of the little things and the overall style to be more of a "game" than those. That said, I had heard this one was good but I'm finding it very difficult to get into and the community seems very toxic (no offense to you).

The game should absolutely do a lot more for a beginner than it does right now. Improving the tutorial would do a lot for the game and it wouldn't harm existing players in any way. I really can't fathom how anyone could be against that.

I have failed to fall in love with a number of other popular games of other types because they fail so hard at welcoming people to the game. (Terraria is one closest to this game in terms of the negative experince I had- It's another game that tells you almost nothing, all you get is an NPC that gives hints if you talk to him, but the funny part is he can and will be killed by enemies before you get what you need to know out of him lol)

You shouldnt need to look up guides with something the game should tell you, like yeah there should be a small tutorial (like guns of Icarus) where it teaches you basic stuff like how to actually pilot you ship, how to get missions and use them and what not

@dread1217 said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

You know it's not only PVP right? There's PVE which is killing skeletons, getting animals, the kraken, finding chests, and sharks which is not only you going against players you also have what I listed and not to mention the weather.

Yes there is, but neither the description before buying nor the game itself really makes cleart hat there are going to be other players out there and yes they are going to b******u up. Of course, if there was a stronger tutorial, I would be better prepared to face that challenge head on rather than get killed/destroyed repeatedly by the same people.

@dewradley said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

You quoted yourself and then you said you disagree. So it looks like you are disagreeing with yourself. I think you meant to quote the poster that disagreed with your original post though. Also you couldn't find the edit button for posts. Do you need a tutorial for the forum? I think I know why the tutorial in game wasn't sufficient for you. Try paying more attention to details in things that you do. I'm guessing you're a person that rushes through things and then complains that you don't know what you're doing. Slow down and pay attention.

You know we're humans and make mistakes right? So I clicked the wrong post when I went to reply. Are you going to throw me in the brig?

Stop being so judgemental.

Man this is why I hate all those games that insisted on putting those condescending tutorials in their games.. gamers these days can't think for themselves or figure anything out anymore.

Here's the hard truth: If I can figure it out on my own, so can you; so can anybody. Trial and error is your tutorial; your own wit and intellect and ability to problem solve are your learning instruments.

I'm not really saying all tutorials are inherently bad, but games really should be about figuring it out by doing it, rather than being specifically told what to do and how to do it.

What do you need a tutorial for, anyway? To know how to raise the anchor? Angle the sails? Lower them? Look around your ship. Try using your brain. Pay attention to what the game is telling you, because it's telling you a lot; just not in plain words.

@dread1217 said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

@tahngarthor "Be More Pirate! With no set roles, you have complete freedom to approach the world, and other players, however you choose. Whether you're adventuring as a group or sailing solo, you're bound to encounter other crews in this shared-world adventure game - but will they be friends or foes, and how will you respond? Xbox Live Gold required to play (sold separately)."

So this is the description of the game and it even hints at PVP when talking about friends or foes but Rare hasn't been secretive about the PVP and there's plenty of videos from them talking about it so it's not their fault for you not knowing you're the one to blame. If you need a hand holding tutorial to teach you how to walk over to an NPC and hit a button then play a different game because there is almost no reason other than you not looking hard enough for you to have trouble starting a voyage and sailing has a learning curve which is good so it rewards good players who understand the system through trial and error or by going on YouTube to find videos made by people to help others like you.

It does hint about it, but it doesn't emphasize that it's the focus. Also, the media for the game really doesn't portray it as a hardcore PvP experience. The art style, the animation, the overall presentation of what the game's promotional media shows you really doesn't scream hardcore pvp game.

@notsid-probably said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

Man this is why I hate all those games that insisted on putting those condescending tutorials in their games.. gamers these days can't think for themselves or figure anything out anymore.

Here's the hard truth: If I can figure it out on my own, so can you; so can anybody. Trial and error is your tutorial; your own wit and intellect and ability to problem solve are your learning instruments.

I'm not really saying all tutorials are inherently bad, but games really should be about figuring it out by doing it, rather than being specifically told what to do and how to do it.

What do you need a tutorial for, anyway? To know how to raise the anchor? Angle the sails? Lower them? Look around your ship. Try using your brain. Pay attention to what the game is telling you, because it's telling you a lot; just not in plain words.

I don't consider being taught how to play "condecending". I'm sorry if an instrunctional tutorial somehow offends you, but you'd really be surprised how many people will pick up a game expecting some sort of instructions or info on how to play and when they don't find it, they flounder about for no more than a few minutes. I lasted longer than most and will likely tough it out, however that doesn't mean that there is anything whatsoever with welcoming a total beginner, that they may be cultivated into a true Pirate and have the time of their lives. I mean really, if you hate tutorials in general, the simple solution is to have them be skippable. Then I can learn how to play if I need to and if you dont need to, then you don't have to. Why is that such a terrible thing? I really don't get it.

I get it- many here are saying the way to learn is to join up with others. Personally though, I'd rather only play with friends, and I'd rather learn how to play by myself before joining the ranks, that I might be less of a burden to them. Because, to be perfectly frank, I throughly expected that if I joined a random party, I would get treated just about as well as I have been here by a few certain posters because of not knowing how to play.

@tahngarthor I'll ask again since you didn't answer the first time: what do you need a tutorial for?

@dread1217 said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

@tahngarthor So you're just gonna dodge the fact that there's videos made by the devs saying it has PVP and go on about how the art style makes it look like it doesn't have PVP that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard saying that is like a game with cute graphics shouldn't be hard. Just stop trying to find a way to blame everything on the devs and admit you didn't see something then just move on with life.

You're just continuing to prove how terrible the community is. I'm glad there's at least a few people here admitting there are problems and also a few trying to be helpful.

I work in game development. I understand the value of retaining new players and do everything I can to keep them. I certainly don't try to push them away, like the people with your attitude would.

And yes, none of the media I saw of the game prior to playing told me that this was 100% PvP only and that I would get blasted into oblivion before even learning how to play.

@tahngarthor so "Xbox Live Gold required to play" didn't tip you off about the Pirate-vs-Pirate nature of this game? Also it's not 100% PvP. Stop being obtuse.

@notsid-probably said in This game needs a way, way better New User Experience.:

@tahngarthor I'll ask again since you didn't answer the first time: what do you need a tutorial for?

To learn how to play the damn game. That's what a tutorial is for. Obviously I'm past that point now, but the whole reason I posted is to discuss the terrible beginner's experience I had and that the devs are rather fortunate I didn't immediately uninstall the game (not that it matters since they already have my money and unlike Steam, Microsoft doesn't offer refunds)

The game does basically nothing when you start the game other than tell you how to open your inventory and use items. It tells you nothing about how to sail the ship, it didn't even tell me how to get a mission (funny enough I didn't learn about missions until i got randomly spirited away some place and told to propose a mission when I didn't even have one to begin with).

That's the whole point- the game tells you nothing. There is no harm whatsoever in providing a little more information to the player, if not include a real full blown tutorial. I see lots of people objecting but no one explaining how having better educated new players harms them in any way.