[Mega Thread] - PvE versus PvP Discussion

  • As referenced in this announcement, any and all discussion on PvE versus PvP preferences, and potential suggestions for how to improve the general gameplay for all players, can be posted here.

    As a reminder, the Pirate Code is more than just guidelines (though the reference really never gets old), but the rules of the community and game that we expect all members to abide by when participating on the forums. Any member who fails to abide by the code may find themselves put in the brig, or removed from the community.

    Thank you.

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  • @ant-heuser-kush The only thing in my opinion which will stop this game become just pure PvP is actual in depth content which will keep people amused and entertained.

    Unfortunately and this is just my opinion, the current trend of quests we have are not particularly fun or engaging and get very repetitive quickly.

    So i believe it's down to the developers and us to think of intuitive ways where engaging content can be had which makes people want to do other things.

    I also believe how they have done the horizontal progression is a major factor of why theres so much PvP. You just dont have anything to work towards. What if you dont care about how your character looks? I dont, so whats going to intice me to do quests and earn gold. Not when lets be honest, i can have alot more fun trying to pirate it from others.

    No one PvPs to earn gold in my opinion, so its those people who need to hve content catered for them.

  • @knifelife In all respect to the fact that we didnt experience content, I agree our beta journey was more PVP oriented then what was promised.I also agree w you that if RARE doesnt offer more then shiny outfits they might as well turn this into a full PVP.In the case they do offer content , balance would be required in order for EVERYONE to enjoy this game! ^^

  • @ant-heuser-kush I got the Blunderbuss in under an hour, it took one voyage. To get weapons will not be hard and i can all but guarantee you will be able to get all weapons at launch in a day.

    Remember Rare wants everyone on a level playing field so they arnt going to have super powerful weapons that costs tonnes of gold.

    But my point was, if you dont care about what tour ship or pirate looks like what do you need gold for? Why are you going to grind PvE especially since the voyages arnt particularly in depth.

    The majority if players will just get there weapons and PvP unless there is something more engaging for them to do. I hate to say it but this will not be a game for PvE players. Not unless somethings change, i dont know what if im honest but we can already tell from the recent Big alpha session and the Beta.

    And its way to soon to launch for any fundemental changes to the core gameplay loop. Unfortunately this is basically what the games going to be.

  • @ant-heuser-kush said in [Mega Thread] - PvE versus PvP Discussion:

    If you're not worried about progression, how do you plan on buying better weapons?

    Just like we do now, farm 1-2 hours and buy it :)

    And I completely agree with @KnifeLife on this, PvP gets probably less common when we got actual stuff to do! I guess my crew isn't the only one right now who does nothing else but seek other galeons - just because the Gold Hoarders got nothing else for us to offer.

    PvP won't get you more gold than digging chests out yourself, it is the fun of sinking and stealing from others that motivates us.

    If PvP and PvE was seperated, what danger would remain? Skeletons? Maybe the Kraken somewhen? Having the risk of other players makes you keep your eyes on the horizon, makes friendly encounters even more special, creates tense moments and is at least my main motivation for playing this! I wanna pirate away y'alls chests ;D

  • @knightx13

    I preface this reply by saying that I have only been ambushed in an outpost twice. Both times, I was able to elude the crew and get away. One of those times, I managed to sink their ship when they pursued. So my personal game experience has not been that bad. However, I have read countless posts about people having absolutely horrible experiences. And as this is the beta, I expect such incidents to get worse after public release. I may have done well so far, but if it escalates, it may get to frustrating dealing with such camping/griefing players.

    My official stance, and what would shift my decision to actually pay for the game:

    I am all for PVP out on the seas and on the random small islands we need to go to for our voyages. But when the day is done and I have a ship full of loot, give a safe harbor to pull into to exchange my goods. These pirate strongholds existed in the real world, where all were safe, so they fit the theme of the game. If people want to PVP off-ship, there are plenty of other options to ambush people. There are some non-outpost islands that would make for very excellent battles.

    Or take it to the seas. Some of my best gameplay in SoT has been ship to ship combat, this is where the game shines for me. If I have a ship full of loot blowing full sail to an outpost and another ship comes out from around an island with intent to us harm, I think that excitement to try to make it to port would add even more tense action and excitement to the game. That 'safe zone' element to the outpost can be the catalyst for some great naval action as people blockade or run blockades.

    It would also relieve a lot of the frustration from people that spawn into a world to find their ship already destroyed, which I have had happen twice, or get gunned down walking out of the tavern, which I have narrowly avoided the one time they tried. Not to mention all of the other people that camp the gold merchant to gun down defenseless chest carriers.

    So why not have safe ports? Or, as somebody else has already mentioned in another thread that there could be 'safe' ports and 'not safe' ports where the 'not safe' variety might offer a higher reward but comes with a higher risk. Maybe a combination of both, make everybody happy.

    At the end of the day, I have no interest in buying a game that is going to reward a few hours of fun exploration and loot gathering with a crew of campers and griefers that are going to shoot people down while their hands are full and moving slow. That is a good way to drive away a good chunk of gamers.

    If that is the intent of the game, I wish everyone playing the best. Just not my style of game play. If that is not the intent of the developers, I look forward to seeing it made more adaptable for a wider audience.

  • Please adjust the respawn system. After you've sunk a ship, killed players should not keep spawning in the water where their ship sunk. All this does is create an unfun cycle of griefing done by both teams.

    It makes it such a frustration for the winning team to get chests from the ship they just sunk when the other players can just continuously respawn without consequence right at the spot the ship sunk. This constant respawning and killing creates waters filled with way too many sharks and it's just not a fun experience.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFEIzT3fGw8

  • What're peoples' thoughts on the skeleton cannon emplacements? I think their accuracy is reasonable, but they're range is kind of nuts. One of the more recent trailers also showed their little emplacement surrounded by a couple of powder kegs to help take them out. Should they all have that, or is it good as is?

  • @ant-heuser-kush

    The current progression system in the Beta is a joke. You can do a lot better with little knowledge about the game and find chests in the world. Went from level 0 - 12 in 30 minutes.

  • I think Rare as a lot of potential with PvE for quests, events, exploration, and lore. We know they are planning some more PvE elements but I think it would go a long way to put the community at rest if they just talked about (or even better showed) some of these features.

  • @ant-heuser-kush I also enjoy doing the occasional voyage and mucking around with my crew and exploring the islands.

    However I'm just being realistic for the average gamer, after a week all that would have worn off, the map would have been explored and due to the current quests being very repetitive most will PvP.

    Even with the 3 trading company's this will end up being the case. There will still be people whp enjoy PvE and will want to do that. But they will be overwhelmed most of the time by people just wanting to fight.

    And this will get worse as time goes on from launch.

  • I think adding to these concepts in the future would solve a lot of problems. There needs to be a good balance here, as there are quite a lot of players who support both sides of the fence.

    -PvE mode (NPCs or stronger, more frequent enemies)
    -Endless PVP mode (Smaller map with extra resources on spawn)
    -Base game exactly how it is

  • I will also agree with some of the other replies posted here, something I had not considered. Making more engaging content would provide things for players to do. I truly believe that there will still be players that will still do nothing but grief on other players, as that is probably all they live for, but more in depth activities would definitely make the game better as a whole for everyone needing more.

    That being said, my group and I did have a good conversation about how cool it would be to have AI merchant vessels that we could go after for loot. That would be pretty cool.

  • @daftpirate I think Rare should give PvE players invincibility against NPCs when they have their seperated PvE server.

  • @cnt-thelrox why would they separate the servers? it ruins all the part of shared world the point is anything can happen pve or pvp

  • @cnt-thelrox Really can't tell if you're serious or just condescending.

  • @ant-heuser-kush said in [Mega Thread] - PvE versus PvP Discussion:

    Farming what? PvE content? Lol. There's nothing wrong with going after someone else's treasure... but if you sink them and they have no treasure, what was the reward?

    Yea i was talking about farming PvE content for gold, it is the fastest income, and the faster you got your blunderbuss (or whatever future weapons) the better.

    And the reward for sinking others who got no chests? You don't know if they got chests unless you search their ship or sink em. I simply prefer the latter. If they got none, you obviously get nothing but the joy of seeing the other ship sink, but that is still quiet satisfying ;)

  • @marsunstopable Because of hurt fee fees.

    @daftPirate What's wrong with that idea?

  • The problem with PvP is, that its getting boring after 2 hours. I personally like it to hunt some other ships with my friends or some randoms, but the incentive for some longer sessions in the future is not given.
    Thats the point when PvE starts to matter. Starting with a solo sloop, doing some quests or go exploring and after this, you reunite with your mates and go for a raid against some errant pirates. Im sure there could be a good compromise between both modes^^

  • @ant-heuser-kush said in [Mega Thread] - PvE versus PvP Discussion:

    Since this is the mega thread... Please, for the love of exploration... do not turn this into a battle royale game.

    The heart and soul of this game is the fact that its one world not two. There isnt a PVP world and a PVE world, its one symbiotic world. The fact that you know other players are out there threatening you adds drama and tension to when you're exploring in PVE, and vice versa knowing there is more to the game than just sinking player ships in an arena adds scale and value to PvP. Splitting this game into two worlds, a PvP and PvE would kill it.

    If you want a game with just PVE exploration with no PVP... thats what No Man's Sky was. The result was the world felt empty and purposeless. Contrast that with my solo experience last night exploring an island that had a galleon docked just offshore, the fact that I knew there was another crew on the island even though I never ran into them made my experience of PVE so much more alive.

    @knifelife said in [Mega Thread] - PvE versus PvP Discussion:

    @ant-heuser-kush The only thing in my opinion which will stop this game become just pure PvP is actual in depth content which will keep people amused and entertained.

    I will say I really agree with this, I dont think the solution is to slash PVP but instead to amp-up PVE. Adding a PVE experience thats less repetitive and has much more desirability, contrast, drama... story and value would drive people to do more than just raid other players. The voyages have all these fun titles like "The stash of captain so & so" but they all blend together and we end up with digging up the same chests in the sand. I know this wouldnt be an easy fix given the framework of the game, but I really think adding better PVE voyages would solve the PVE players problem while not breaking the core magic of this game.

    This game was always a revolutionary experiment in making a player driven world, splitting it into two would ruin the magic.

  • @ant-heuser-kush then what? i don't get what you are trying to say here

  • The game is called Sea of Thieves for kraken's sake...

    The LIVING piracy on the open world is the heart of this game, don't take that away so people can spend more time meaninglessly grinding.

    Improve PVE voyages, that's the solution.

  • By definition "Sea of Thieves" and pirating is a high risk endeavor devoid of safety and where everyone who decides to play game knows the potential of death and betrayal. Gold is king and sleep with one eye open. That is what sets this game apart from others and why it is such an enjoyable game.

    Don't like what pirating entails? Choose another lifestyle/game.

    The worst thing that could happen is the developers appeasing those that would rather trade danger and excitement for safety to the detriment to the developers true vision of a pirating life where the uniqueness and fun lies. Those that have an aversion to the core mechanics of the game shouldn't be dictating how the game should be made. I'd argue that their vocal and minority opinions should be discarded completely as they don't enjoy the game for what it is.

    Stick to your vision Rare.

  • Honestly, I don't get what this whole PVP vs PVE thing is about... I don't see any issue.

    Yes, you'll encounter more hostiles then friendlies. It's only natural when we are bound to our own ships.. This does not mean you cannot make friendly experiences..

    Just moments ago, while treading the harsh seas, I saw multiple ships(two being galleons, two being sloops). I decided I was going to confront a sloop in a neutral manner. As my ship neared his, I raised my sails and ran to the front of my ship to begin waving at him. Unscathed by my approach, the stranger climbed aboard his ship with a chest. I begun to speak to him. he looked at me, waved and continued his journey. We met again at another island. This time, I begun loading all my supplies into his ship while he was hunting for more chests. As he got back to his ship, he saw my ship anchored right next to his. He did not get hostile or anything. He merely brought a marauders chest onto my ship then we both sailed separately to an outpost(so happens we came to the same outpost, lol). At this point, I drank grog and watched as he ran back and forth from his ship, cashing in chests. Once finished he used the G key to say thanks to me, I replied in kind, and we both logged off..

    Moments like this shows that not everyone will be hostile. We must keep this in mind as we traverse the seas. More often then not you will be confronted by a greedy pirate, but on occasion, you will experience that social interaction that shows just how friendly some pirates can be. ;)

  • To see an example of another game that has Open vs Private, take a look at Elite: Dangerous. The community in that game has basically forced most people to go to Solo/Private sessions because of killing without reason.

    Now, don't get me wrong. I'm all for servers being PVP. But there should be some mechanic in place that should discourage the average player from doing PVP. IE The bounty system. Or maybe.. the INFAMY system. The more you Kill, the more infamous you get.

    There should be two sides to this coin.
    There should be rewards/benefits to being infamous.
    HOWEVER, The more infamous you are, the higher the risk should be to your life/plunder.
    I believe that since this is a game about piracy, the bonuses to being infamous should be higher than being reputable.

    Having a high reputation should also come with some different benefits as well. Better protection to your life/items. But not as good as if you were a pirate.

    If someone kills someone with a lot of reputation (new players should start with a decent amount) they should get infamous relative to their reputation. And vice versa.

    Obviously this would need a lot of fine tuning/balancing. But I think this would be the best solution for PvP/PvE.

  • @daftpirate don't feed the trolls. He's a founder and a Pioneer. He should know better and choose to be constructive here, as we are being given a chance to help shape the game.

  • I'm not saying split the worlds up, no, not at all. I just don't think this needs to be the next PUBG. I can agree with the more meaningful content, but always wanting to fight is not something that I want, especially since Rare has already said they want the encounters to feel special -- that's why they're so limited.

    Okay I'm glad you don't want to split them, but I don't think this is trying to be PUBG (Though I honestly wouldnt mind if there were optional events that brought fleets together in competition, but thats my play style and I understand its not yours I wouldnt want it forced on you).

    I'm also a little confused because you admit that encounters are already limited, but you want them less limited? I guess I'm not entirely clear on what you're saying.

    I think the main issue people like you are having is a real issue, you don't feel like your play style is being as catered to as other play-styles and I can understand that. That's why I think spending more time on making quality PVE and maybe just adding more consequences into the game for combat would begin to have the two balance out better.

    I want you to feel like you can play your way, I'm just worried that catering too much to PVE players and safezones will kill the magic.

  • My experience as a solo pvp'er from my many hours of play time between alpha & beta I firmly believe that most pirates aren't as bloodthirsty as the forums suggest. I obviously don't have the actual data but from my experience hunting ships I find that I have to chase down ships more often than not. I'd go as far as saying 70% of other players don't come charging headlong into battle. I'm on a sloop and half or more of the galleons I battle, were chased down by me. Do players shoot at me first when I come near and haven't started shooting yet? Absolutely. I don't blame them at all and would sincerely hope that they defend themselves.

    As far as "how do I tell another ship I'm friendly?" There's the "flick your lantern for peace" thing which tbh I'm too busy planning my attack and running my ship to look for a flickering lantern. I am definitely not going to risk getting close enough to see it in the daylight hours. How about just using the pirate chat wheel and saying "Ahoy!" a few times.

    Having a chest on board is a completely moot point as I the attacker have 0 idea that you have one until I board or sink you. Telling me "I have no treasure" won't work simply because I've been told that a few times by people who did have treasure. I also don't think I'm ruining anybody's experience by sinking their ship. If it was experience ruining it wouldn't be a part of the game. I truly believe this game is very balanced between pve and pvp. The tavern talks and information blasts are primarily focused on exploration, treasure hunting, and voyages. I have yet to see /read something stating "we have done xyz to gear this game towards pvp". Also I always read about risk vs reward. What's the reward of pve only if there's no risk? You have a billion gold. Congrats? How long can pve only really stay fresh and exciting with there being 2% risk (skeletons & storms) after the "honeymoon" stage? I'm by no means against pve nor am I one to be like "pve more so i can steal your loot!" or this "you just want easy kills" mantra. Choose your own adventure means choices and the entire foundation of SoT is to choose your own adventure to become a legendary pirate.

    ...I apologize for rambling lol :)

  • @tokin1 said in [Mega Thread] - PvE versus PvP Discussion:

    Now, don't get me wrong. I'm all for servers being PVP. But there should be some mechanic in place that should discourage the average player from doing PVP. IE The bounty system. Or maybe.. the INFAMY system. The more you Kill, the more infamous you get.

    I really like this idea, I'm reminded of Assassins Creed: Brotherhood's multiplayer... The more you kill the more people target you. I like this because I dont think it kills PVP, it makes it more meaningful adding consequences. At the same time it could incentivize PvP people to focus more on other PvP players instead of explorers, while still keeping them in the same world.

  • Took less than 30 posts for this thread to turn into a name-calling, "if you don't play this way go find another game" mess.

    Completely expected.

  • @xxalfonzxx said in [Mega Thread] - PvE versus PvP Discussion:

    Also I always read about risk vs reward. What's the reward of pve only if there's no risk? You have a billion gold. Congrats? How long can pve only really stay fresh and exciting with there being 2% risk (skeletons & storms) after the "honeymoon" stage? I'm by no means against pve nor am I one to be like "pve more so i can steal your loot!" or this "you just want easy kills" mantra. Choose your own adventure means choices and the entire foundation of SoT is to choose your own adventure to become a legendary pirate.

    Same can be said for the players that only want to PvP--what's the risk attacking another ship? You get killed and respawn nearby to restart the hunt. Not exactly a big risk in this game world.

    There's only the possibility of reward.

  • This is kind of relevant to the pvp & pve thing.

    @imoenorunitia said in Reputation/Voyages - thought:

    Crazy idea, make reputation tied to voyages (Chapter completes/ voyage completes) and not chests turned in. Chests turned in still give the gold but not rep. You could take this a step further by making the voyage have a minimum chest turn in to obtain the rep.

    While I enjoy pvp, I feel it is far too rewarding to people sinking ships for chests. This ensures most everyone needs to at least take part in voyages if they want to increase rep, but still allows people to sink ships for gold only if they so desire.

    Sorry if this is posted in the wrong location.

    Edit: This along with locking certain ship/equipment/weapon/upgrades/cosmetics behind reputation thresholds (or w/e you guys have in store) would make a nice little system, where it doesn't discourage pvp but also encourages running voyages. Right now, I don't even feel like I need to run voyages and that, in my opinion is kind of a problem.


  • PvE would ruin the dinamic of the game pirates don’t stop for any one or any zone if you don’t like that get another game

  • @tokin1 regarding Elite: Dangerous ;
    I've had no issues with playing in Open. The ONLY time you have to play in Private is if you're participating in a Community Goal. Any game with PVP that involves children, teenagers and manchilds will always guarantee toxicity. SoT is no exception.

    I think the game is fine how it is, however, I'd like to see the possibility of a pure PvE/PVP mode added in the future.

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