Ship Crew Limits?

  • Tangent1035
    Castaway

    I always thought the crew sizes for the ships I was procuring were recommendations until I gifted the game to two of my friends, had them out in Safer Seas, saw they were being overwhelmed by the size of a Galleon, and decided to step down to a Brigantine. That's how I found out that you can't have a crew of four on a Brigantine.

    I don't understand this. Granted that this may be a PVP consideration, however, in Safer Seas, I would think going on a ship with fewer guns and sails was cost enough and it wouldn't matter if I took four people on a smaller ship. I understand being limited to a four man crew, but I'd like to be able to put that crew on the ship I'd like rather than having that decision made for me, especially on Safer Seas when the ships are all pre-stocked and it shouldn't matter to anyone else if I'm overmanned or undergunned.

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  • Lem0n Curry
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    @tangent1035
    Safer Seas won't have features that High Seas doesn't have. that would include a 4 crew sloop.

    Besides, it wouldn't be much of a learning tool if you're being taught to sail with three others on a sloop and when you switch to High Seas where you can only have your friends on a Galleon.

    IIRC Custom Servers &c will have such an ability (or just sail with two crews on one sloop I guess on Safer Fleets).

  • Tangent1035
    Castaway

    @lem0n-curry

    Can I ask what the reasoning is behind not being able to do a four man crew on a smaller ship even in High Seas? Lacking guns and sail for a surplus of manpower seems like a decision that should be able to be made even on High Seas, I only don't comment on it because it's outside the scope of my interest.

  • Lem0n Curry
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    @tangent1035 said in Ship Crew Limits?:

    @lem0n-curry

    Can I ask what the reasoning is behind not being able to do a four man crew on a smaller ship even in High Seas? Lacking guns and sail for a surplus of manpower seems like a decision that should be able to be made even on High Seas, I only don't comment on it because it's outside the scope of my interest.

    Balance. A two-men sloop is a tough nut to crack, imagine having two more to keep it afloat or having them board the opponents.
    Also, a sloop is easily handled (when no PvP happens) by one, what are the others going to do ? At least with three sails they stay busy a bit.

  • Tangent1035
    Castaway

    @lem0n-curry I would think that the decision to enhance your survivability by using a sloop and only being able to bring one gun to bear would be a valid decision; making your ship well-nigh impossible to sink and also making it difficult to sink anything else seems fair enough to me. But then, I can't say I know what the game design intends for people outside my expertise.

    It's an unfortunate design decision. The two new players I was teaching found the experience overwhelming having to learn to play with two decks worth of hull, three sails, and four guns. Being limited by the game's PVP considerations is something I warned them about when I gifted them the game and I hadn't expected this to be one of them.

    I suppose there's nothing to be done about it.

  • Lem0n Curry
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    @tangent1035
    Perhaps teach the new two players on a brigantine at first - a lot easier to handle than a galleon.

    Or you and your current crew mate take one new player each on a sloop for a bit.

    When they get the hang of the smaller ships, running a galleon with 4 would be more easier.

  • BurnBacon
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    The two new players I was teaching found the experience overwhelming having to learn to play with two decks worth of hull, three sails, and four guns

    Well, Newer players are first taught about a Sloop. If they actually took the Maiden Voyage serious as a mid-tutorial.

    Idk why people wanna start off big, knowing its a game they never played before.

  • Look Behind You
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    One of the reasons for limiting crew sizes for each ship (aside from the balance for High Seas), is to encourage teamwork and communication.

    If you could have everything covered at all times, there would be no need for any crew communication.

    If, however, you can't have all the cannons manned AND have someone on helm AND someone repairing AND someone raising/turning sails, there is a need for communication and teamwork to prioritise tasks, which in turn leads to a stronger Crew.

  • Tangent1035
    Castaway

    @lem0n-curry Hence the problem. I've been playing with my wife, and it was easy to teach my wife (since the two of us weren't limited as a sloop crew). Now it's my wife and I teaching a husband and wife, as is often the case at my age. If it was possible to teach them on a sloop or a brigantine, I would. Absolutely. It would be an awful lot easier (and, honestly, better, since I like the brigantine better as it is much easier to handle and I rarely require a Galleon's firepower).

    In fact, the point you made about it being easier to handle is entirely the reason why I ended up having this problem and coming here to see if this had a solution. I entirely, wholeheartedly agree. But the choice is that if all four of us are around, and it's rare any one of us is online without their spouse, Sea of Thieves simply can't be a choice unless we take them onto a Galleon, with the problems you enumerated.

    To not do so, as you might have suspected, means that either I'm not playing with my wife, or we're taking one or the other of a husband and wife. And as we're all friends, that's not really something we're going to do. Especially not for Sea of Thieves, where I'm not really interested in building some kind of well-trained power base. We just wanted to sail around in our off time and shoot skeletons.

    Were I just some guy and we're talking about three random friends of mine, that might be an inconvenient but easier choice to make; I just tell someone to sit out while the other three have fun. I certainly wouldn't want to do that as it's a relatively cruel thing to do. It's very disappointing that I have to make that choice at all given why the problem exists at all.

    Sea of Thieves is frustrating to me for this reason. I really like the process of sailing and playing the game and I want to share that experience with my friends. However, I keep running into design decisions based on criteria that aren't relevant to me or what I'm doing. You can imagine how explaining this to people outside this forum sounds.

    And, ultimately, I don't know there's anything to be done. The game probably just isn't built for me or for mine as a social construct, which is frustrating as I really enjoy it when I happen to slide into one of the notches that is carved out. My wife and I had a lot of fun while she was learning, I just didn't know it was arbitrarily because there happen to be two of us and that is an allowed use case.

  • Lem0n Curry
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    @tangent1035

    I totally get that playing with four is the preferred option.

    One or two sessions with one less person on the brigantine should get them to know the basics and have the galleon become less bothersome. E.g. let your wife do the work on the ship while you watch them sail on yor wife's screen and comment on discord to the two new ones (or the other wat around). Is also less of a burden while your wife / you handles the ship and you / your wife is explaining / telling them what to do.
    You can also switch, after some time you and your wife swap places.

    When they are more comfortable doing sailing, have a session on a galleon and then you can continue with all the other stuff to do on the Seas.

    Or, on a galleon let one of the new ones be the helm, but only the steering, instructions / orders can come from you/your wife to both of them. Let them steer through a portal &c, when they get the hang of it and the other the hang of repairs they can switch.
    Sail on two sails at start, no other crews to get away from and you're not in a hurry anyway.

    Not everything has to go efficient, as you said "I'm not really interested in building some kind of well-trained power base.", so what if the sails aren't angled perfectly or you need an extra crate of wood to fix holes. That comes after a while.

    Or wait for Custom servers, IIRC they talked about an option where the persons setting up can manage the crews as they wish (or just start two sloops (or brig and sloop), sail towards each other, alliance up and sail on one).

  • Lem0n Curry
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    @tangent1035

    Another thing, part of the problem might also be that you and your wife probably aren't used to sail on a galleon either. Maybe when you and your wife have a session, duo on a galleon for a bit - just stay away from encounters where the difficulty is based on ship-size instead of crew-size. It's been a while when I duod on a galleon but those megs are a pain in the aft without a full crew 😁, also just run away from skalleons and krakens.

  • Tangent1035
    Castaway

    @lem0n-curry You do understand the problem, though, right? These are a lot of hoops to jump through, including me not playing the game with my time, in order that all of us play this game that I, in particular, want to play. It's a hard sell to say these folks need to get in gaming shape for this game when I'm the one who really likes it. I've got to sell this game to the group against the vast library of Steam, which is difficult considering how inconvenient it is compared to most of its competition, if I want to be able to play it at all with how often I game with friends.

    I'd really like to sail, but like you're saying here, this would require me setting up some kind of other arrangement where I literally don't get to play the game with the people I want to play with, for however long it takes everyone to not be frustrated. Worse, I have to convince these other people who are going to ask me why we don't just play something like Warframe that doesn't have these problems. I don't know I have an answer for that.

    I know I like sailing, but the inorganic balance choices are hard to explain to people who wouldn't even be in the game if it weren't for Safer Seas and don't much care about the politicking behind its existence and ruleset. It would have been easier, as you'd said previously, if I could just get them on a brigantine instead of a galleon, and I can't even explain to them why I can't be with them when doing it without sounding ridiculous.

    I was kind of hoping that would have an easier answer, but I don't think there's going to be a workable out. Either the stars align and the group fits that night or it doesn't; the game doesn't have enough systematic flexibility for the breadth of use cases I'm likely to find myself in.

  • Lem0n Curry
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    @tangent1035
    It's about one session to teach, far better than having four on a sloop where two people are doing almost nothing during a PvE fight.

    You get in a skloop fight or a Meg attacks, I assume you and your wife have no problem fighting that, helm probably fixes holes, cannoneer bails when the water gets too high. So, take turns shooting the cannon with four in a crew ? Someone micro-managing the length and angle of the sail ? To be honest, to me it seems more fun sinking on a galleon because someone can't find the wood barrel or the helm doesn't pay attention and gets you beached than have an "over crowded" sloop.

  • BurnBacon
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    Sounds more like your making the problem more of a problem then it should.

    You can still play, and wait as an adult, patiently for your other couple to get use to the game. Mostly in SS.

    As Lemon mention as well, In time (we dont know when) There be a choice to play with multiple ships in SS, without progression of course.

    I have to convince these other people

    You dont have too. If the game is not up to there modern standards, then its not a game for them.

    One Work around, it tricky and time consuming.
    Works on HS only. Join two ships at the same time, and hope they meet on the same server, it can be done just takes a lot of: Set Sail and compare what WE is on and go to Ferry.

  • Lem0n Curry
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    @burnbacon said in Ship Crew Limits?:

    Works on HS only. Join two ships at the same time, and hope they meet on the same server, it can be done just takes a lot of: Set Sail and compare what WE is on and go to Ferry.

    Or even better, they have four people, everyone starts a sloop, bigger chance of two of them ending up on the same server.

    If you then end up on the same server and sail as a crew of four, prepare to be bored during sailing when all you do is PvE though.

  • MisereNZ
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    A four man sloop or brig in high seas would be OP. Having someone always on cannon not having to worry about ladder guarding etc. Crew size limits are required for balance.

  • Smuntface
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    @tangent1035 said in Ship Crew Limits?:

    I don't understand this. Granted that this may be a PVP consideration, however, in Safer Seas, I would think going on a ship with fewer guns and sails was cost enough and it wouldn't matter if I took four people on a smaller ship.

    In the context of Safer Seas only, I kinda agree with crew limits not being a thing. It would be fun to do a tall tale with more then 4 people too.

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