Legalized Ladder Launching

  • I had a guy board my boat and he said "Sorry I would have got here faster if I didn't screw up my ladder launch" and he proceeded to tell me how Rare said it was not bannable. Curious, I went back and looked—he appears to be correct. It was an old sot news video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lim0NtF2vQ&t=225s
    If you have trouble finding it just listen for the grocery list of exploits then the last part at the end where its mentioned none of them are bannable.
    (Edit: Made it easier to find - Timestamp 5:48 and 6:26 for the specific portions.)

    Thoughts?
    Are you guys encountering a lot of this? It's common that pirates often don't care about right/wrong they only care about what is punishable and what is not.

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  • @karkona said in Legalized Ladder Launching:

    I had a guy board my boat and he said "Sorry I would have got here faster if I didn't screw up my ladder launch" and he proceeded to tell me how Rare said it was not bannable. Curious, I went back and looked—he appears to be correct. It was an old sot news video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lim0NtF2vQ&t=225s
    If you have trouble finding it just listen for the grocery list of exploits then the last part at the end where its mentioned none of them are bannable.

    Thoughts?
    Are you guys encountering a lot of this? It's common that pirates often don't care about right/wrong they only care about what is punishable and what is not.

    I personally think it’s pretty lame that a firm stance hasn’t been taken on the launching exploits. I record all of my fights when I remember, and I don’t even know if I should bother reporting launch exploiters since I don’t really know if any action would be taken against them. It takes a little bit of time to upload videos for reporting, I won’t bother unless I’m sure it’s not pointless..

    The launching exploits give an obvious advantage to those using it. I saw a YouTube video yesterday and without even thinking of exploits I heard the guy say “decked”, and my brain was like “what?” because I just saw this guy shoot out of his cannon in a direction not even facing the boat, after going back to look again it’s pretty obvious that he didn’t even deck, but rather dolphin dived onto the boat after submerging. The comments under that YouTube video were a mix of people calling it cringe, and the supporters of the exploit talking about how it’s not bannable, and that it “increases the skill gap”.

    How in the world these guys coped this idea that being able to deck significantly easier, while not even facing your cannon in the direction of the target “increases the skill gap” is beyond comprehension lol. Maybe we should guide our cannon balls in the air after shooting them, too, it would “increase the skill gap”.

    Rare please take a firm stance on launching exploits. You can paste the usual “if you think a player is…” response but I will not bother reporting an exploit if I think it’s a waste of my time. Meanwhile you’ve got a LOT of players that think easily decking via an exploit is not only okay, but somehow makes the game more skillful.

    Gross.

  • Exploiting in combat is like stacking

    someone might get away with it for a while but don't play the victim when it doesn't go your way

    it's never a good idea when something matters. If the account matters, if the integrity of the gameplay matters, avoid it, don't take the risk, no matter what anyone says.

  • @karkona ahoy

    I want everyone who uses movement exploits to get their punishment. I can't understand why a player gets a red beard for exploiting a ladder to get speed, but a player gets nothing for using a fishing rod. Every day I see people flying to me with a fishing rod, but for some reason they don't get any penalties.

  • They did add the in game report function with a specific reason of movement exploit since that video was released. Personally I'd say ladder launch is worth a ban as it is ridiculously powered in terms of no cannon sound, how far people can launch etc. Crud launching is debatable. It sucks but you can watch out for it at least.

  • @hiradc said in Legalized Ladder Launching:

    They did add the in game report function with a specific reason of movement exploit since that video was released. Personally I'd say ladder launch is worth a ban as it is ridiculously powered in terms of no cannon sound, how far people can launch etc. Crud launching is debatable. It sucks but you can watch out for it at least.

    I don’t think that people should get banned for either of them, but a temp ban or a warning, depending on how many offenses they have would be sufficient I’d say.

  • I take it you're referring to crud launching.
    It actively renders cannon boarding useless and is not intended to be in the game, and those who use it complain when it's done to them.
    It's a negative-no fair player would use it and is an unfair advantage

  • @theredhead5271 this is true but the problem is the more common it becomes the more pressure you are under to join in it's use in order to stay competitive in pvp. I don't currently use it. I did use a previous version but more for messing about in pve rather than against players (did use odd time). In certain hourglass at the moment it feels like everyone is using it

  • I don't think they should be bannable they should just be fixed..

  • @xzodeak said:

    I don't think they should be bannable they should just be fixed..

    🤯

  • I agree on the not bannable. If Rare can't fix it, they certainly shouldn't be handing out punishments for using it.

  • @sammyr0cks said in Legalized Ladder Launching:

    I agree on the not bannable. If Rare can't fix it, they certainly shouldn't be handing out punishments for using it.

    It's not really one of the things that can accidentally happen regularly.

    I've never done any of that accidentally or intentionally. Some exploits have a history of being so easy to do in common scenarios that they lean accidental as much as intentional.

    I'm rarely pro-ban about things, I'm much more "stay out of trouble".

    They might decide to not ban for the act but where people are at risk is when combining the act with others acts. If people are regularly getting on boats through an exploit and then camping the boats or trash talking or whatever then that exploiting can be used to allow less wiggle room on other stuff.

    I don't think people should do it at all but if they do they should keep in mind that exploiting can absolutely be used against someone in the process of discretion based enforcement.

    Exploiting will often lead to getting reported more and if the conduct is not so great it can lead to issues for someone doing it.

  • Regardless if I think it should be banned or not, I'd like to know if they're taking a definitive stance on this, on way or another. Is it bannable or not?

  • @wolfmanbush If the exploit is used to get on a boat and use explicit trash talking, then the player(s) should be banned for the explicit trash talk, not using the exploit.

    I do agree that using exploits frequently can lead to being reported more, which in turn can lead to being banned. I have a former teammate who got redbearded, and the response from Rare was "frequent reports of toxicity". So yes, you do take your chances, especially when the rules aren't black and white.

    Personally, some exploits have (had) become regular parts of my gaming routine, such as animation cancelling my weapons, buckets, etc. I still fast swim and fast run items. Other exploits, like the ladder/fishing rod launch I don't use, because it just seems too overpowered. I'm probably a contradiction when it comes to the lines I draw.

    1. I'm not going to bother reporting it because it's not a hack. Anyone can use these exploits on purpose or on accident and that's the objective reality. Nobody bought and downloaded illegal 3rd party software.

    2. I'm not willing to jeopardize someone's 1000+ hour account because I'm angry at a pirate who's taking advantage of very well-known oversights that Rare isn't taking a stance on. These pirates are just being pirates in a pirate game. They will use whatever advantage they can get and that they think they can get away with.


    You cannot reprogram the players, but you can reprogram the game.

    Half the perpetrators are teenagers and young adults with no sense of right, or wrong yet. No understanding of the purpose of integrity yet. They don't understand that winning via exploits has no absolutely 0 value yet.

    Fixing the game is the first, last, and only step. It is Rare's job to take accountability for their game and not to put the blame on players for exploiting their easily exploitable game. The parent should not punish the child due to their own faults as an adult.

    Ladder launching could be fixed today by adding an extra layer of collision onto the rails of ships. Crudlaunching will likely be fixed with the season 13 update until a new version of it is found, but hopefully they find the root of the physics bug and squash it.

  • sorry but if as a teenager you dont understand right from wrong you have been raised wrong, if as an adult you still dont understand it then i dont know what to say. that is a ludicrous statement to make

    its painfully obvious that anyone abusing bugs should be banned, not permanently or at least not one the first few occasions where a ban should be handed out. saying they shouldn't is maybe the reason why you think adults dont know right from wrong. if your not punished for doing bad things then you dont learn

  • @greatfailure82

    Not everyone is even 'raised', and the sooner you get that privileged and sheltered upper-middle class 1st world mentality out of your mind, the sooner you'll start to understand the the world is a complex place that isn't nearly as simple and as black and white as you would personally prefer it be because that suits your personal interests most conveniently.

    Punishment is obviously a 2nd rate, low-level temporary solution to a simple problem. You can cut the heads off the hydra as many times as you like, but they will grow back and you can keep swinging your sword until your arms get tired and you eventually give up. I'm far more interested in stabbing at the heart of the hydra and killing it once and for all.

    The Shepard can punish his sheep for straying away from the herd, or he can build a better fence. Just don't rely on a simple sheep to make its own good decisions.

    So going off the passed 5,000 years of written human history, I think it's safe to say that trying to completely control human nature with authoritarianism is.. how do you say..? Foolish? Impossible? Pointless? Fruitless? Exhausting? Expensive? Silly? Never worked? Never will work? Has terrible consequences? Is always short-lived? Leads to revolution?

    You might as well imprison a snake every time it eats a rabbit. You'd have better luck arresting the ocean every time a tsunami wipes out a village or shooting at a tornado when it gets too close to your house. If crime was illegal, no one would break the rules, right?

    Rare's job is to make players happy.. or at least addicted, that's how you make money in the gaming industry. That entails building a fun game world where players can enjoy the game with as few rules and regulations as possible.. Rare and only Rare set the boundaries of what is possible within the realm of the game they crafted. If players can go outside the 'intended' boundaries using the game against itself, that is Rare's responsibility and they know they're accountable for that and I know they intend to eventually fix it.

    Banning players for your own oversight is foolish and irresponsible. That's a short-term emotional decision based on fear and anger alone, not a long-term logical one or even a good financial decision. The banning of players has serious consequences whether you care to choose to be conscious of that fact or not, everyone will suffer for it.

    Banning someone for exploiting a weakness in your own game would likely lead that player to feelings of extreme bitterness and spite. Now nothing is stopping them from creating alt accounts to hack your game and cause as much misery and anger as you've caused them.

    Did you know banning a player doesn't make them vanish in real life? Lol. To the contrary, they often come back for revenge.

    I don't think Rare should waste time or resources on toxicity or exploits (unless they're patching the exploits) and literally focus all forms of punishment and control strictly on actual hackers who illegally break the game unfairly with external software and hurt the enjoyment of the vast majority of the player base. Still, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If you can keep everyone happy, or at least the vast majority, you will have very few problems.

    I can't imagine a more foolish idea than relying on and expecting the general public to do the right thing. Half of the game population uses exploits now, and banning everyone for every exploit would lead to the loss of millions of dollars of revenue and a very discontent player base. It's as immature, reckless and short-sighted as it is financially catastrophic.

  • @olde-grim-jack said in Legalized Ladder Launching:

    I don't think Rare should waste time or resources on toxicity or exploits (unless they're patching the exploits)

    a significant reason why there is such a thing as "gamer words" is because of a system in place to apply consequences to harmful actions.

    Over time these systems on platforms in shared spaces have led certain communication to being largely accepted as inappropriate and unacceptable.

    Even many of the trouble makers in SoT widely accept that there are lines to not cross, such as slurs, targeting women, etc.

    Change of habit can often lead to change of heart as people mature.

    It's effective to enforce ToS when talking toxicity. A good use of resources in an environment that aims to be a welcoming place for different types of people.

    In the last few years it's also helped combat mistreatment of women online in shared spaces. Targeted mistreatment is far less accepted now because people don't get away with it as much anymore.

  • @olde-grim-jack its not authoritarianism to be punish people when they do something obviously wrong, and yes its a simple short term solution but guess what thats exactly what is needed until the long term solution is put in place. doing nothing as you seem to be suggesting only leads to the problem becoming more prevalent, and being scared to punish people incase they get there feelings hurt is just wild to me.

    simple fact of the matter is if you do something wrong, you should get punished. if anyone does something wrong and they dont get punished for it then not only do they continue to keep doing it but then people who weren't doing it before start doing it

    obviously the problem should be fixed, and everyone would love it to happen but its been in the game for how long now and its still here, so maybe just maybe if people got a 24 hour ban for exploiting bugs which you cannot simply stumble upon then far less people would stop exploiting bugs

  • For me it's like they admit that they can't fix holes in they game.

    Ovearll it's encouraging bad behavior.

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