Retrievable Emissary Flags

  • Selgewick
    Master

    Ahoy Mateys,

    Today I would like to talk with you about Retrievable Emissary Flags.

    As ye all know, Emissary Flag is a Tool, which allows ye to Privateer for a chosen Trading Company n make a great amount of Reputation & Gold for it by selling the Treasure, which holds it's Trading Mark or Belongs to it. And, as ye all know, this flags are also a treasure, which can be acquired by sinking other emissary vessels or being sunk yerself.

    If yer ship sinks, ye lost yer Privateer Status n yer flag will float above the waves for others to claim.

    But what if ye could retrieve yer flag? What if 'ere would be more use to it than another piece of treasure, which ye can sell or leave for others to claim?

    Gents, I propose a New Mechanic, which would allow ye to Retrieve Emissary Flags n Reattach 'Em to yer Vessels.

    Imagine yer ship has descended to the depths, while ye were Privateering for a Trading Company. Now if ye decide to continue yer adventure instead of abandoning it, ye can reattach yer own emissary flag n continue on yer merry way, like nothing has ever happened.

    Or, Imagine Sinking a Reaper Emissary Vessel, which just have reached Tier V in Emissary Value. Now, instead of just keeping it as another piece of Treasure, ye can attach it to yer vessel n become a new thread to the seas.

    Now, Reapers, the Hunters who have hunter emissaries for generations, will become the Hunted.

    However, there is some drawback, which should be introduced to balance this New Mechanic, such as:

    • Emissary Flags are now sink faster than them have ever before.

    • Ye cannot reattach Emissary Flag if ye Flying One, ye will need to go to Outpost n Lower yer Own Flag before reattaching yer own or attaching Someone else's .

    • Ye cannot endlessly reattach yer own flag or attach someone else's, there is a limit. Limit: Reattach yer own: II Times (Max), Attach Someone Else's: I Time (Max).

    • Ye cannot attach Guild Emissary Flags from other Guilds.

    • If ye sell yer Own Flag, while Flying Attached Flag, ye get only I Gold Piece n I% of Reputation for yer current lvl for Reapers.

    • Ones Emissary Flag is Attached or Reattached, it cannot be lowered for X to XV minutes.

    • After ye lower yer Reattached Emissary Flag ye get less Gold n Reputation for it. However, if ye lower Someone else's attached flag, ye get more reputation n gold for it.

    • Emissary Quests cannot be accepted if ye flying someone else's emissary flag.

    That's it. If ye have any comments, concerns, or thoughts ye would like to share about, than leave yer comments below. Otherwise, I wish ye to have a nice day or night and I will see you on the seas.

    With Best Regards,

    Selgewick The Seaman
    Chronicler of Legend
    &
    Fleet Admiral
    &
    Guild Owner
    of
    Pirates of Agrabah
    &
    Privateers of Flame

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  • Ghutar
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    I don't think that this bring enything really changing into gameplay loop.

    We are grinding now toward level 5 of emissary really fast nowadays - 2 dives for world events and it's done!
    So reataching own lost emissary is uneeded nerfing of involved risk in mechanic.

    Second consern - it's perfect way to abuse emissary system for crew that activley hunt for emissary crews and their loot.
    With that they can easly stack some higher lvl emissarys and swap them during selling for higher reward without additional risk.

    On side note faster sinking flag would bring a lot of uneeded frustration in HG match aftermatch.

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @ghutar I think it is a great update which would compliment PvP & PvE of the Seas. Since for PvE, Pirates who have lost 'eir emissary to Natural Causes or Supernatural Causes can now retrieve it and continue 'eir Adventure. While for PvP, for Pirates who are looking for battle n it's many rewards Emissary Flags are now offering more Risk n Reward Factor. Also, I recommend ye to reread the Article since ye made a mistake n 'Ere is no way for someone to "Cheese it" or "Exploit it" the way ye have described.

  • Th3 Tater
    Marauder

    I don't think you should be able to shortcut a flag for emmisary. It's quite a big hunk of cheddar. Getting one to G5 is very quick, kinda pointless.

    I don't think incentivizing going back for your flag is a good idea. Already have too many players crying about crews coming back for revenge.

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @th3-tater 1. Ye may be able to get Emissary Value Tier V Easily, but can ye hold it up for that long? Ney, ye can't. 'Ere is always dangers awaiting ye on every corner. Therefore, it is not pointless to be able to retrieve yer own flag once ye sunk & reattach it back to yer vessel, n it's definetly not "A Big Hunk of Cheddar". 2. Laddie, I don't see how that relative to my topic. 'Ere is no written or unwritten rule that prohibits pirates from seeking revenge.

  • Ghutar
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @selgewick enyhow reataching it cut time spend as emissary with loot on sea cuting highly risk factor.

    Overall possibilty to do so effectivly undermining eny tension of being emissary puting at risk (pun intended) whole risk vs reward intended in mechanic.

    Side note: For me If reatachmentt cloud find place in current situation is that way crew can reattach own flag if they sink ship that sunk them OR reattach flag of theirs oponents.

    But still loosing emissary is now such trival matter that I dont see reason to trivalise it more.

  • Th3 Tater
    Marauder

    @selgewick

    You said you could take someone else's flag that's g5 and put it on your ship. You literally want to skip the whole rasing to g5 mechanic. That's cheese ma'am.

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @th3-tater I highly recommend for ye to reread the topic. 'Cause to get Tier V Emissary Flag ye need to either lvl up yers or find an enemy vessel n sink it. Which is Increadibly Hard since them can fight back n sink ye or run away. N if ye get lucky n sunk another ship, only then ye can either keep it as a piece of treasure or sail to Outpost, Lower yers n attach 'eirs. 'Ere is no "Cheesing", Ma'am.

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @ghutar Sorry Lad, I didn't get it. Can ye describe a bit more for me the part before the Side Note? Cheers.

  • Smuntface
    Captain
    Insider

    @selgewick said in Retrievable Emissary Flags:

    (Attaching someone elses' Tier V to your own boat)

    Someone will find a way to cheese it. Rare has changed the game plenty of times due to people finding a way around a mechanic.

    Emissary Flags are now sink faster than them have ever before.

    A Grade V flag is the most valuable piece of loot for many pirates, especially the rarer one's like Order of Souls.
    Making them sink faster isn't a great idea.

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @smuntface 1. Them sink faster because them can now be attached to other vessels, which are not privateering for any trading company. Thats the reason why such drawback is in place. So other Crews who sink 'em or crew which accidentally sinks will prioritise emissary flag above other treasure. 2. How? Ye say 'Em can be "Cheesed", all right, describe it how. I'm eager to hear that.

  • Smuntface
    Captain
    Insider

    @selgewick said in Retrievable Emissary Flags:

    Ye say 'Em can be "Cheesed", all right, describe it how.

    No. Don't feel like an argument.
    There's been duplicating cheats in the game over the years for a start. Plenty of video's on youtube of players with hundreds of flags on their boat simultaneously. Also parts of the ocean where flags would float up, as they were being duplicated by the server, when people dove for HG. Feel free to search for it.

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @smuntface Saying that it can be "Cheesed" without explaining how n using statement which supports it is not an argument. Also Cheats, Exploits or Bugs is not an argument as well. Therefore, I highly recommend to either don't write that it can be "Cheesed" if there is no valid argument to support it or if ye wrote one, not follow it up with a comment or an answer which cannot support that statement. Thank you for yer reply.

  • TheRedHead5271
    Marauder
    Insider

    I like the idea, it deffinitly seems like something that should have been added a long time ago.
    It would encourage more player interactions if sunk than just moving on. If you get a grade 5 emissary, and then get sunk while gathering for your loot haul, you could go back and fight them to get the flag back and not have reset all of your progress.

    Hopefully this is something they add in the future. Prehaps as a penalty for losing the flag and impacting your status could be added as well, such as the flag's grade is dropped down by a value of 1 (eg: from level 5 down to level 4)

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @selgewick said in Retrievable Emissary Flags:

    @smuntface 1. Them sink faster because them can now be attached to other vessels, which are not privateering for any trading company. Thats the reason why such drawback is in place. So other Crews who sink 'em or crew which accidentally sinks will prioritise emissary flag above other treasure. 2. How? Ye say 'Em can be "Cheesed", all right, describe it how. I'm eager to hear that.

    After getting back your emissary 5 flag from the seas, you carry on gathering loot and just before you're docking at an outpost to sell, you reattach the flag.

    You'll have your grade 5 bonus without being a target to Reaper grade 5 or anyone who would see an emissary ship to be a target.
    This would take the risk out of the equation of the Emissary system.

  • Ghutar
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @selgewick sure think:

    If add reattachable emissray flag it should only aply as way to win back your's own flag - to facilitate organic pvp.
    or
    have possibilty to swith for flag looted from ship that previously sunk you

    Both in some resonable time frame.

    But even for me its sounds needlesy complicated. Current emissary flags works perfectly good.

    There is no need to complicate allready simple, not punishing and working mechanic for sake of change.

  • JRip1298
    Rogue

    @th3-tater
    Revenge is allowed though. If people don’t want people to try and take revenge they shouldn’t be on a pirate game. Yes people are allowed to steal but people are also allowed to come back for revenge and try to take back what they earned and if people don’t like that then they shouldn’t be playing this game.

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @ghutar I see, thank you.

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @lem0n-curry I don't want to be that pirate, but I will. Do not quote someone's reply n then answer 'Em. That quote is my reply to the lad I had conversation with. Ye don't need to put yer V cents in that conversation. Also, I highly recommend for ye to reread the topic.

  • GrumpyW01f
    Legend
    Insider

    @selgewick said in Retrievable Emissary Flags:

    @lem0n-curry I don't want to be that pirate, but I will. Do not quote someone's reply n then answer 'Em. That quote is my reply to the lad I had conversation with. Ye don't need to put yer V cents in that conversation. Also, I highly recommend for ye to reread the topic.

    This is not a private conversation. You made a statement, and someone refuted the statement. No one cares who you made the statement to.

    You don't want others to reply to certain posts, and you stick everything you write through a pirate language filter. You're severely hindering your reach.

    Instead of telling everyone to re-read the topic, take the replies on the chin and really ask yourself the problems with what you want. That's how you work out the issues in suggestions and come to a better conclusion.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @selgewick said in Retrievable Emissary Flags:

    @lem0n-curry I don't want to be that pirate, but I will. Do not quote someone's reply n then answer 'Em. That quote is my reply to the lad I had conversation with. Ye don't need to put yer V cents in that conversation. Also, I highly recommend for ye to reread the topic.

    You wanted to hear a way to cheese it, I gave you one.
    One that has come up in similar topics.

    I couldn't find a way to stop that cheese in your OP.

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @lem0n-curry Aye, I did. But from that lad, not ye, since him the one who said that it can be "Cheesed". If ye want to "give a reason" or "a way to cheese it", I highly recommend to write a separate comment than to quote someone's reply to other comment. Also, maybe, just maybe, if ye cannot find a way to "Cheese it", then maybe it cannot be "Cheesed"?

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @selgewick said in Retrievable Emissary Flags:

    @lem0n-curry Aye, I did. But from that lad, not ye, since him the one who said that it can be "Cheesed". If ye want to "give a reason" or "a way to cheese it", I highly recommend to write a separate comment than to quote someone's reply to other comment.

    Would it matter if I made the comment without the quote ? I included it because you apparantly wasn't aware of how the reattachment of an emmissary flag would go against the intended mechanic of emissary flags - with or without your additional rules.

    Also, maybe, just maybe, if ye cannot find a way to "Cheese it", then maybe it cannot be "Cheesed"?

    I don't understand this bit; I did find a way to cheese it and explained it. Is something unclear ?

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @lem0n-curry 1. Aye, it would. Since quoting replies to other comments can be misleading and misunderstood. 2. It wouldn't go against intended mechanic, since 'ere is specific rules in place to prevent that from happening, which I have mentioned in this topic. 3. I highly recommend for ye to reread this topic, 'cause ye didn't find a way to "Cheese it". Ye explained it, aye, but ye misunderstood or missed some information in this topic, which is vital for ye to understand before making such statement.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @selgewick said in Retrievable Emissary Flags:

    @lem0n-curry 1. Aye, it would. Since quoting replies to other comments can be misleading and misunderstood. 2. It wouldn't go against intended mechanic, since 'ere is specific rules in place to prevent that from happening, which I have mentioned in this topic. 3. I highly recommend for ye to reread this topic, 'cause ye didn't find a way to "Cheese it". Ye explained it, aye, but ye misunderstood or missed some information in this topic, which is vital for ye to understand before making such statement.

    I can't seem to find any way in the OP on how the cheese I described can not be done.

    There is nothing in there to stop that after a ship sinks with an emissary grade 5 flag the crew can pick it up again, sail with it without attaching it, amassing loot for a few hours and before turning in their loot reattach it and get the grade 5 bonus.

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @selgewick attach the flag from the enemy is a big NO, I could use goldhoarder and hunt down a OoS and a merchant emissary, get theyr flag and when it comes to sell my stuff, I first sell the goldhoarder treasure, take down the flag, attach the OoS flag, sell the skulls and then the rest with the merchant stuff
    This idea is like asking for cheats...

    Re-attaching your own flag is also not a good idea, for example: I get my rank V flag, sink my own ship, get back to take my treasure and go on with hoarding more treasure, as soon I start selling, I put the flag back up...

    This suggestion is made since emissaries are a thing, please first read some of those threads before posting your "good idea", because every idea about it has been countered already as a bad, or abusable idea

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @schwammlgott I completely disagree with yer view. Yer first example states that ye would reach Grade V Emissary for Gold Hoarders n Sink another Emissary Grade V for Order of Souls without sinking yerself or 'Em coming for Revenge. Not to mention being attacked n Sunked by any other vessel, which sails the seas. Chances of such happening is so low that this example is impossible to happen/does not exist in real life scenario. Yer second example states that ye can become "Invisible" to other Emissary vessels by keeping yer Emissary flag to yerself. But, ye perhaps forgot that other vessels can come n sink ye with or without the Emissary Flag. Therefore such theory is flawed n does not work either. Lastly, I highly recommend for ye before writing that this or any similar topic is "Flawed" to reread it couple of times. N if that doesn't help, then do not reply to it.

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @lem0n-curry Firstly, what's OP? Secondly, if I understand this correctly in yer reply ye said that Vessel achieved Grade V, then sunk due to any reason. After that it managed in short period of time to retrieve 'eir flag n all 'eir loot before it sunk to the watery depths. Then it continued 'eir voyage n did some additional activities while keeping 'eir flag to 'emselves n without encountering any ship, amassing as many treasure as them want n then sail to Outpost, reattach 'eir lost flag n then sell everything as Grade V Emissary Vessel. Is it Correct? Or did I missed Something?

  • Guildar9194
    Master

    @selgewick

    Yer first example states that ye would reach Grade V Emissary for Gold Hoarders n Sink another Emissary Grade V for Order of Souls without sinking yerself or 'Em coming for Revenge.

    Except they're right, because it can happen. Your idea does not exist in a vacuum, and the possible drawbacks & ways to abuse it must be considered.

    Not to mention being attacked n Sunked by any other vessel, which sails the seas. Chances of such happening is so low that this example is impossible to happen & does not exist in real life scenario.

    No, the chances of not being attacked or sunk are not 'so low as to be impossible'.

    Yer second example states that ye can become "Invisible" to other Emissary vessels by keeping yer Emissary flag to yerself. But, ye perhaps forgot that other vessels can come n sink ye with or without the Emissary Flag. Therefore such theory is flawed n does not work in real life scenario too.

    Again, your claim is 'That's impossible because I said so!'
    It's still a possibility that must be considered. And saying 'Nuh-uh!' does not invalidate that possibility.

    N if that doesn't help, then do not reply to it.

    You don't get to decide that criticisms are not allowed, or who can and cannot reply to ideas.

    Because ye clearly does not see it as a New Mechanic or way to improve a game, but a way to cause some drama n chaos.

    It's a new mechanic that has a high probability of being abused.
    You not liking criticisms does not change the fact that those criticisms are valid, nor do you get to tell someone 'don't reply' just because you don't want to hear said criticisms.

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @guildar9194 As I previously mentioned before. Do not quote replies to other comments, them can be misleading and misunderstood. Better write a separate comment, than to quote my reply to other comment n answer it as ye the one to whom I wrote. Thank you.

  • Guildar9194
    Master

    @selgewick said in Retrievable Emissary Flags:

    @guildar9194 As I previously mentioned before. Do not quote replies to other comments, them can be misleading and misunderstood. Better write a separate comment, than to quote my reply to other comment n answer it as ye the one to whom I wrote. Thank you.

    I can reply to any comment I darned well please. Are you now telling people what and how they can reply?
    Or was that just to avoid addressing any of the points I made?

  • TheGrimPreacher
    Captain
    Insider

    @selgewick

    Dude, these forums are not an echo chamber. You don't get to decide who does and doesn't reply to which comment on them, even on topics you yourself created.

    Several fellow forum members have given several very feasible scenarios as to how such a mechanic could be abused. You not liking their responses does not preclude their validity. Stop telling everyone to re-read your posts if they don't agree with you. It's not like the idea (which has been posited by others several times in the past and downvoted for the same reasons) is hard to grasp conceptually.

    Unlike your constant and continued use of cringe pirate talk...

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @selgewick sagte in Retrievable Emissary Flags:

    @schwammlgott I completely disagree with yer view. Yer first example states that ye would reach Grade V Emissary for Gold Hoarders n Sink another Emissary Grade V for Order of Souls without sinking yerself or 'Em coming for Revenge. Not to mention being attacked n Sunked by any other vessel, which sails the seas. Chances of such happening is so low that this example is impossible to happen/does not exist in real life scenario. Yer second example states that ye can become "Invisible" to other Emissary vessels by keeping yer Emissary flag to yerself. But, ye perhaps forgot that other vessels can come n sink ye with or without the Emissary Flag. Therefore such theory is flawed n does not work either. Lastly, I highly recommend for ye before writing that this or any similar topic is "Flawed" to reread it couple of times. N if that doesn't help, then do not reply to it.

    I don’t need to get rank V before getting those other flags...I can do that afterwards...chances are low, yes, but never zero. And that's the point...it's highly abusible

  • Selgewick
    Master

    @schwammlgott But how it can be Highly abusive if chances of such happening so low? (I'd say, nearly impossible to happen)

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @selgewick sagte in Retrievable Emissary Flags:

    @schwammlgott But how it can be Highly abusive if chances of such happening so low? (I'd say, nearly impossible to happen)

    I just need one other flag to get more profit and if I play long sessions chances get higher to get what I want, especially if no reaper is around
    Anyway, sinking myself makes me almost invisible if you know how to hide

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