New weapons are cool but this won't shake up the pvp "meta". Please take a more direct approach.

  • I'm expecting this to get controversial but I gotta say it

    Sea of Thieves is not just a sandbox game it's arguably a party game and yet the pvp meta in this game is that of hyper-fast reflexes and high stakes, it is something more akin to hardcore shooter games such as Escape from Tarkov, CSGO, Marauders, Valorant and so on.
    One wrong move and you're dead faster than you can even heal yourself or think about taking cover, not for a lack of trying but because the game's healing mechanic literally cannot keep up with how fast a proper sniper-blunder user can kill you.
    It is in fact so fast to kill that it's extremely hard to differentiate between someone who's reflexes are just that good and someone who is blatantly cheating.

    This brings me to the new weapons: DB gun and Knife are fun but ultimately way too slow. The time to kill doesn't come close to rivaling that of the sniper-blunder combo. Why does the charge of the Knife not insta-kill when the blunderbuss does that already? I can see why the DB gun's charge attack can't do it since it's a side-grade (though I'd still like to argue that it should do more damage) but why not the Knife? It's extremely close range, it requires a second to prepare (just like aiming down sights with the blunder) and yet blunder is still just the objectively better pick. Sure the knife can be thrown further, but that aspect of the weapon is currently very clunky and frankly a blunder-bomb will do the job better and much faster.

    Once the novelty of these two weapons wears out you will see a significant decline in their use, especially in pvp, which saddens me but having clocked in 1,000+ hours into your game I do believe this is just what's going to happen. You’ve encouraged a play style that rewards players for using the fastests guns to kill, unless a new weapon comes out that can keep up they will not be used in the long run.

    Let me give you an example: I want nothing more than to get into a sword fight, I love the melee in this game because it's simple but fast paced, I love the sound of metal clashing against metal when I pull off successful blocks.
    I find it fun yet because of the way those two guns (sniper and blunderbuss) behave I can't use the sword in a serious pvp encounter.
    Rule of cool will only go so far, I have to run those two same guns every time I want to get serious, I can't have fun in my preferred way otherwise I stand a significantly higher chance to just lose and the same exact thing will happen with both of the new weapons.
    We cannot keep dancing around this issue for a whole decade, if you truly desire to "shake up the Meta" you need to deal with it directly. Not by tweaking things like "Quickswap" or adding new weapons (although they are appreciated) but by dealing with how the Sniper behaves in close range and the Blunderbuss being the only close range weapon that is so powerful that it can one-shot any player, otherwise people will eventually be forced to drop the new weapons whenever they're getting into anything with high stakes, just like how I can't use the sword in a serious fight.

    It is true that it's not bad game design to have mechanics that require skill, however it IS poor game design to have mechanics that have little to no counterplay to such a degree that everyone needs to either use that same exact mechanic or just rely on the other player using those tools improperly. I’m positive that any combination that can kill faster than a couple of seconds in a game where most weapons cannot do so falls under the definition of “Overpowered”.
    And a couple of seconds is literal, it takes less than 2 seconds to kill someone if I do it right and that’s just ME doing it, I know and have seen other players who are able to double gun way faster than I can, do you seriously call this balanced?

    There is clearly new blood in the dev team and if the recent changes are anything to go by it seems they are prioritizing fun above all else so I am hoping that the coming drop in people using the new weapons finally makes Rare realize they need to tackle this issue directly once and for all. Again, the weapons aren’t bad, much like the sword they’re fun to use they’re just not fast enough to kill.
    This has to be addressed, especially before that up and coming Handheld-Harpoon rolls in, otherwise it will do nothing but exacerbate the issue.
    It does not matter that it (the harpoon gun) replaces one of your weapons, people are just going to hook you into blunderbuss range and instantly kill you. It will just become the "Harpoon-Blunderbuss" meta and this time they'll be able to move around even faster and even go as far as to potentially negate Naval Combat in a lot of circumstances. No sword fighting and no naval? It might as well just be a cowboy game.

    I'm sorry if when reading this you are a player that enjoys this weapon combo. I don't mean to upset you nor is my intention to ruin your play-style. I've learned to do it myself and I see its merits, yes it’s not the easiest thing to pull off and yes it is powerful and rewarding when you do so but we simply cannot keep pretending these weapons (being as powerful and effective as they are together) are good game balance, either make ALL weapons fast to kill or remove the blunder’s ability to insta-kill and make the sniper only do 45 damage in close range.
    Things simply need to change, to refuse change is to stagnate and stagnation often leads to death. I'd like to keep Sea of Thieves around for as long as possible because I like the pirate genre a lot and this is the only decent pirate game with multiplayer out there but it's hard to keep new players around if we spawn-camp them with a 2 second to kill weapon combo.
    We don’t need “Safer Seas”, quests like Siren’s Song (which are currently ignored by most players despite it trying so hard to incentivize pvp) or even new weapons necessarily, we need to overhaul pvp or at least rebalance certain tools so that more players are willing to engage in it. This issue won’t go away just because it gets swept under the rug or gets temporary band-aid fixes, mark my words, as soon as people complete the War Chest commendations the vast majority will just go back to using the sniper and blunder. Nothing will have changed except that now the devs need to spend time and resources to make skins for two new tools that won’t be used much.

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  • You assume they're trying to shake up pvp meta, I don't think they were. Although some things like the horn and bonecallers are blatant anti boarding devices. I think their goal was to just add more options, I don't think they cater to pvp heavy population as its a small percentage.

  • Sea of Thieves is not a 'serious' game at heart, never has been.

    Yes, some people may play it as a serious, competitive game at times but at the end of the day, it is still a silly pirate game. A Shared World Adventure Game and not a hardcore FPS.

    Whilst some may play Sea of Thieves as a serious/competitive game, the majority just enjoy the game as a silly Pirate adventure game.

  • @pyerack SoT is a PvPvE pirate adventure game, it’s not an FPS akin to CoD. It’s a silly adventure game that doesn’t require a large amount of skill, and those who treat it that way are just trying to make it more than it is.

  • @tesiccl So you agree with me.

  • Idk man, playing with the throwing knives has been awesome. It’s a HUGE first damage when thrown, you get 4 and then you can hang on to one and essentially have a sword. Pair this with another weapon to finish people off even a few pellets of blunder bombs will kill after it. I think it’s changing some. To say you HAVE to use a certain setup os false. Lots of very competitive players use sword pistol so it’s possible to do so.

  • @jon-sea-nah What weapons were the other players using?

  • @pyerack all types. Sword/blundy, EoR/Blundy, Sword/Pistol.

    I think what may be keeping people from changing it up is the perceived “high stakes” of pvp combat in this game and not willing to get out of your comfort zone to explore new play styles. I was hesitant to the knives at first but after a long session of playing with them my crew hasn’t laughed so hard in a long time. It’s fun and rewarding to get kills with them, plus people seem to really hate dying to a knife.

  • Sot close combat with controller feels like it has no aim assist im normally a good player in fps mostly halo but im really impressed how do people double gunning and snipe in sot with a controller i just dont like close combat in sot it feels kinda clunky. for the new weapons i didnt tried them in pvp cause after some pve it was clear they are useless in pvp.

  • @pyerack

    I definitely agree that there is a subset of the community that feels "the pvp meta in this game is that of hyper-fast reflexes and high stakes," but for the bulk of us that is not the case.

    My biggest pet peeve are the pirates that feel this way. The "game" of Sea of Thieves is turning in treasure before another crew can take it from you in one way or another. I honestly do feel the bulk of the player pirates are PvEvP'ers that want to collect treasure and fight over treasure. Pirates that just want to fight, with a sink or be sunk, attack on sight mentality aren't playing the "game." PvP in the game is meaningless without stakes, without loot to fight over. When someone attacks me and I haven't gotten any treasure yet, or am only emissary grade one or two, I just scuttle to change seas. I want to play the game, not fight for 30 minutes to sink a ship that has nothing for me to gain.

    It's a risk reward scenario. If I collect treasure for an hour, I have risk; I have an ante or buy-in for the PvP. If someone logs in, buys supplies, and just goes hunting, they have no ante, no buy-in. So if I sink them, I get... nothing. I have wagered all the risk but have zero reward for participating in PvP while my opponent has zero risk and all the reward for participating in PvP. This is why I feel ships should have more inherent loot: merchants should give out fruit, cannonball, and wood crates for free so when you sink a ship you can collect and sell their supplies. Sails and cannons entangled in ropes and wood should float to the surface so you can collect them and sell them to the shipwright. That way there is more reward to participate in PvP against pirates who only wish to participate in PvP.

    It all started with Adventure mode, then there was arena, then there was Hourglass for pirates that enjoy PvP, then there was Safer Seas for pirates that enjoy PvE. I frankly believe the serious, competitive PvP'ers are anathema to adventure mode, but any game with PvP is going to attract a PvP enthusiastic crowd. I hope they go find another game quickly.

  • @lordqulex Can you elaborate more on the first part? What do you mean that's not the case?

    "The "game" of Sea of Thieves is turning in treasure before another crew can take it from you in one way or another" Yes, that is the whole objective of the game. Every achievement awards you currency, cosmetics are merely a reward for your time and success.
    There isn't really a clear cut way of doing this so long as you do end up selling something, anything is honestly a win. Whether it be hourglass, something you stole or obtained from a PVE voyage. It's a Sandbox game.

    "Pirates that just want to fight, with a sink or be sunk, attack on sight mentality aren't playing the "game.""
    Honestly as far as I'm concerned if you boot up the software, you're putting in inputs into the controller/keyboard and are actively just enjoying your time, you are playing the game even if you don't get gold, aren't particularly good at anything or even if you just want to sink people that falls under the definition.
    I'm sure there is a kid out there that is too young to even understand what they're doing in sea of thieves but are having fun waddling about anyway, I wouldn't say he isn't playing the game. He may not be doing the main objective but he's playing around in his own way.
    That said, I do think that if there is a random crew that gets no extra supplies, no emissary flag, nothing at all and just keeps slamming themselves onto random ships and are consistently getting sunk they should just be scuttled to another server after the 3rd sink. I have seen how players can use the freedom of the game to harass streamers and content creators. I have also heard stories of how some players will sink others and completely ignore the loot just to be mean.

    Since the Hourglass update you do get something for sinking people who don't even have loot: You get all their supplies, all the cargo they bought with earned currency is now currency you no longer have to spend. Even if it's just the default supplies. I don't think adding more incentive is necessary as most people will take even the supplies that float up as a victory. Hell, I myself tend to take survival as a victory.

    I appreciate the feedback but this kind of just doesn't touch upon my points very well, the topic was about other subjects.

  • @jon-sea-nah Well that's you experimenting because you likely don't have anything to lose. Of course you're going to experiment in that situation, it also sounds like you carry the advantage of being in a very experienced and coordinated crew. Very little threatens good coordination in this game after all.

    Regardless: My experience so far has been nothing like that, so assuming in good faith you're telling the truth, I can simply disagree as both of us are running off nothing but personal experience.
    Every time I've ran into another crew attempting to use the new weapons they end up losing the fight. I haven't even been killed by either of them. Only kills I got while experimenting were with the double shot pistol but those were against inexperienced crews that didn't have the knowledge to put up a better fight. If I tried using either of those against more experienced players I'd just get obliterated by the old school weaponry.
    Double Shot IS fun and satisfying but just like my example with the sword, it's not fast enough, you're still better off just learning to quick-scope EoR.
    I frankly won't bother with the knife, I messed around with it but if I'm going to use such a close distance weapon it's either the sword or the blunderbuss. I only ever saw one person get a kill with the knife so far and it was a random open crew pirate who joined in the middle of the fight against yet another inexperienced crew that had their hourglass enabled.

    Only genuine use I've seen for the knife was when that same open crew pirate threw them around the anchor as a trap of sorts. The tactic saved our life as it caused more experienced players to pick up a knife instead of anchoring us, since the knife is so clunky and slow it actually bought us excellent time to eliminate him. I even got that fight recorded.

  • @pyerack if you watch high level MMR streamers most are running TK Blunder when boarding. It gives you 3 weapons. 4 distance attacks via thrown, then 5 blunderbuss, then hang on to 1 TK and you can still stab and slash. It takes some getting used to but is quite effective.

    I think putting a sink-scuttle/severhop ratio is a bad idea. What if you were stacking FOTD and you sink x number of times trying to get YOUR hard work back, should you be limited? Is it then “toxic” to keep coming back? I think that’s my thing with this game currently, it has turned into if I do it it’s wholesome, but if someone does it to me it’s because they are toxic people. OR we are all just people playing a game. I’m willing to be 99% of the people you fight are just like you and they probably think YOU are the toxic one. I try not to do toxic things to people, unless you’ve earned it, and yet I’m constantly called gamer words and sent messages for simply sinking a ship and taking their stuff.

  • @pyerack said in New weapons are cool but this won't shake up the pvp "meta". Please take a more direct approach.:

    @lordqulex Can you elaborate more on the first part? What do you mean that's not the case?

    I'll do my best!

    So I'm basing this on a quote by Bernard Suits, a Distinguished Emeritus Professor of Philosophy at the University of Waterloo: "a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles." By that definition, Sea of Thieves is a "Shared World Pirate Adventure Sandbox Pastime." You spawn a ship, PvE to generate treasure, other pirates are the unnecessary obstacle you're volunteering to overcome, and the goal is to turn in the treasure. Any achievement that rewards you without interacting with another crew is merely passing the time, and not encouraging you to participate in a "game." That's why I use quote there: we all colloquially refer to Sea of Thieves as a game, but without meaningful PvP, e.g. Safer Seas, Sea of Thieves is merely a pastime. (That's why many veteran pirates lament Safer Seas: PvE without PvP is BORING.)

    I'm sure there is a kid out there that is too young to even understand what they're doing in sea of thieves but are having fun waddling about anyway, I wouldn't say he isn't playing the game. He may not be doing the main objective but he's playing around in his own way.

    Yep, that kid is merely "passing the time."

    That said, I do think that if there is a random crew that gets no extra supplies, no emissary flag, nothing at all and just keeps slamming themselves onto random ships and are consistently getting sunk they should just be scuttled to another server after the 3rd sink. I have seen how players can use the freedom of the game to harass streamers and content creators. I have also heard stories of how some players will sink others and completely ignore the loot just to be mean.

    Since the Hourglass update you do get something for sinking people who don't even have loot: You get all their supplies, all the cargo they bought with earned currency is now currency you no longer have to spend. Even if it's just the default supplies. I don't think adding more incentive is necessary as most people will take even the supplies that float up as a victory. Hell, I myself tend to take survival as a victory.

    No, supplies are "resources," not "currency. " Sorry for the quotes again, but we're venturing deep into definition territory. Sea of Thieves has "resource management" mechanics; you have a finite supply of "resources" (cannonballs, planks, etc...) which you "manage" by choosing whether to engage with that skeleton ship, that pirate ship, that kraken, et cetera. A "currency" you spend on optional benefits. You choose to spend gold on more supplies, you choose to spend gold on cosmetics, you choose to spend gold to repair your ship. Currency is optional (you can play SoT without spending a single gold piece, they are entirely and 100% optional), but resources are managed as part of the game (it would be nigh impossible to play Sea of Thieves without firing a single cannonball or using a single plank). Yes, in many games currency are a resource, but in Sea of Thieves, by the definition set by Game Theory, currency is not a resource.

    Survival is victory, but in the encounter not in the game. Survival in PvP without turning in treasure isn't a game; it is a test of skill, to be sure, but it doesn't meet the definition of "game."

  • I stopped at the first paragraph and then stopped reading...
    Comparing Sea of Thieves to a CS, what an indignity LOL

  • @da-german420 said in New weapons are cool but this won't shake up the pvp "meta". Please take a more direct approach.:

    Sot close combat with controller feels like it has no aim assist im normally a good player in fps mostly halo but im really impressed how do people double gunning and snipe in sot with a controller i just dont like close combat in sot it feels kinda clunky. for the new weapons i didnt tried them in pvp cause after some pve it was clear they are useless in pvp.

    Honestly props to anyone who can get good with a controller. I've tried, I used controller when I first started the game, and I still play my Insider every week on a Steam Deck with it's normal controller layout. It is difficult. When I'm playing on the live retail build, I always do keyboard and mouse. I struggle so hard when I'm using controller I can't imagine doing hourglass or even fighting a decent crew on the open high seas with one. It's like ten times harder than being on kb&m.

  • @jon-sea-nah No idea what TK means. If you mean the Knife, no I have not seen any high level players using the knife against anybody that is competent outside of clips of people goofing off and attacking new players who are absolutely confused as to what is going on. Feel free to share the clips I guess.

    If you got sunk more than 3 times and you just keep coming back with nothing but the default supplies, I don't think you're getting your loot back, you're just bashing your head against a brick wall. Learn to call it "gg" and try again somewhere else.

    "I’m willing to be 99% of the people you fight are just like you and they probably think YOU are the toxic one."
    Now you're just assuming in bad faith. I don't even use mic except to give quick call outs to team mates. If I've ever been toxic it's been towards my own team mates for not listening (and that doesn't mean insults, it's a game, that stuff is uncalled for) but even then I try to remember everyone panics in the heat of a fight, sometimes I myself forget to breathe because there's some fights that just have THAT much on the line.

    Slurs should not be tolerated. It's exactly why I'm always recording every fight, if anyone says any slurs I trim the video into a clip of them saying it and report them once my play session is done.

  • @zeyrniyx Why even bother writing a comment.

  • @pyerack said in New weapons are cool but this won't shake up the pvp "meta". Please take a more direct approach.:

    @jon-sea-nah No idea what TK means. If you mean the Knife, no I have not seen any high level players using the knife against anybody that is competent outside of clips of people goofing off and attacking new players who are absolutely confused as to what is going on. Feel free to share the clips I guess.

    If you got sunk more than 3 times and you just keep coming back with nothing but the default supplies, I don't think you're getting your loot back, you're just bashing your head against a brick wall. Learn to call it "gg" and try again somewhere else.

    "I’m willing to be 99% of the people you fight are just like you and they probably think YOU are the toxic one."
    Now you're just assuming in bad faith. I don't even use mic except to give quick call outs to team mates. If I've ever been toxic it's been towards my own team mates for not listening (and that doesn't mean insults, it's a game, that stuff is uncalled for) but even then I try to remember everyone panics in the heat of a fight, sometimes I myself forget to breathe because there's some fights that just have THAT much on the line.

    Slurs should not be tolerated. It's exactly why I'm always recording every fight, if anyone says any slurs I trim the video into a clip of them saying it and report them once my play session is done.

    That’s exactly what I mean though. If you aren’t running a mic and the people you fight aren’t, essentially you are projecting toxicity into their actions. I’ll sink you but I’m not toxic about it. I can see how being sunk may feel toxic but it’s core game play.

    Check out Capt stirliing and you’ll see servant 2500 and guardian 2500 using TK, yes Throwing Knives. They are quite effective and technically makes it 3 weapons.

    As for the 3 times thing, meh. I’ve played this game long enough to know that ONE Rare moment can change the tide of battle a lucky one ball or demasted at the right time. So I still think that I shouldn’t be punished for sinking. This reads to me like “I sank someone and don’t want to have to fight again for the loot, please make them move servers so I can sell” Risk vs Reward right? You want to get the reward you’re gonna have to risk crews coming back.

  • @lordqulex Ok pause, why are we diving into the semantics of what we individually see as the definition of "playing a game" to the point of bringing up Philosophy when that is absolutely irrelevant to the topic I'm trying to discuss here?
    Yes, PVP is a part of the game I have never denied this, I even said that we do not need Safer Seas when the core issue is that PVP has a weapon balance issue and the priority should be to rebalance it so that people stop seeing it as a "yucky" thing and engage in it more instead of running from it, not sweep it under the rug with side-grades or a "solo" mode.

    Also just because it's said by one Philosopher doesn't mean it's correct, Philosophy has been a topic of discussion for millennia and will remain so, there is no appeal to authority here.

    "Yep, that kid is merely "passing the time."" Perhaps by your personal definition, but not by his.

    "but we're venturing deep into definition territory." yes and I don't see why. Regardless of whether or not resources are currency, they're still a reward for sinking someone, making your previous point that "randomly attacking anyone with no loot on their ship has no benefit" null.

  • @jon-sea-nah "essentially you are projecting toxicity into their actions." I'm not though, you said this, not me.

    "I can see how being sunk may feel toxic but it’s core game play."
    Yes I literally agree with this.

    Sure I'll check it out later.

    Yeah a funny "Rare" moment or a One-Ball can 100% ruin a 2 hour run. I literally had that happen to me while I stupidly decided to do a Veil of Ancients voyage solo, got attacked by a briggantine but had a handle of the situation until ONE random cannon ball didn't even hit me, it graced past me yet the game decided it was close enough to fling me OUT of the ship. After that it was 100% game over and I just scuttled. Nothing to do when you're solo and getting spawn camped but to call it. Did manage to sell the Athena beforehand though so in retrospect it wasn't a complete loss.

    Either way, yeah, incidents like that will 100% happen it's just how the game goes.
    Sinking is already the losing state of the game, yes you should be punished for sinking well over 3 times.
    You can watch practically any streamer deal with the scenario I gave earlier, people keep coming back with nothing to lose just to harass them over and over. People that didn't even LOSE loot to the content creator, they just know they're streaming and want to be annoying for the sake of it so they keep coming back over and over again, do YOU have a solution for that?

  • I honestly don’t think adding a new weapons going to change the issues you’re mentioning.

    The throwing knives have been really fun. They can tweak it a bit to help. But overall I think you’re turning a positive into a negative by complaining about it. I don’t think their intention was to shake up the meta

  • @look-behind-you with all due respect. I take what this game means seriously. For example, I’ve made more friends playing this game than any other by 10 fold. We’ve gone on real adventures that I look back on fondly. I know this isn’t what you meant, but I just wanted to mention that the game stands as a testament to something very serious in the gaming community. The will to make memories with friends.

  • @pyerack said in New weapons are cool but this won't shake up the pvp "meta". Please take a more direct approach.:

    @lordqulex Ok pause, why are we diving into the semantics of what we individually see as the definition of "playing a game" to the point of bringing up Philosophy when that is absolutely irrelevant to the topic I'm trying to discuss here?
    Yes, PVP is a part of the game I have never denied this, I even said that we do not need Safer Seas when the core issue is that PVP has a weapon balance issue and the priority should be to rebalance it so that people stop seeing it as a "yucky" thing and engage in it more instead of running from it, not sweep it under the rug with side-grades or a "solo" mode.

    We're delving into the topic because you asked:
    @pyerack said in New weapons are cool but this won't shake up the pvp "meta". Please take a more direct approach.:

    @lordqulex Can you elaborate more on the first part? What do you mean that's not the case?

    The entire topic is about the new weapons shaking up the META, and my response is "there is no META for your average player; pirates who use the META aren't playing the same game the rest of us are." Then you asked what game we're playing, and I responded.

    "but we're venturing deep into definition territory." yes and I don't see why. Regardless of whether or not resources are currency, they're still a reward for sinking someone, making your previous point that "randomly attacking anyone with no loot on their ship has no benefit" null.

    But resources aren't a reward for sinking someone. The emissary ledger shows the top "winners" each month by gold earned. There is no emissary ledger for supplies. Technically yes, you can turn in supply crates to the MA, but since they don't hand those out for free the crates are the discovered loot, not the supplies that go in them. So no, there is no inherent reward for sinking an empty ship by the game's own rules, outside of hourglass.

  • Supplies are definitely an award for sinking someone. It doesn't have to give gold or ledger to be a reward. Food, ammo, wood, etc are fuel to continue playing longer, that's rewardng. I have 100% sunk people for the quick restock before if they looked like an easy fight. Not to mention those barrels might contain fish or meat, which you can sell for gold and commendations. And if it's a captained ship, you always get their logbook to sell to the Reaper's, meaning every single captained ship does have an inherent gold reward for sinking "by the game's rules." There's also commendations and milestones tied to firing on enemy pirate ships, and progress on those is also a reward.

  • @lordqulex said in

    But resources aren't a reward for sinking someone. The emissary ledger shows the top "winners" each month by gold earned. There is no emissary ledger for supplies. Technically yes, you can turn in supply crates to the MA, but since they don't hand those out for free the crates are the discovered loot, not the supplies that go in them. So no, there is no inherent reward for sinking an empty ship by the game's own rules, outside of hourglass.

    100% FALSE! Resources are life my friend and Chains are the most valuable treasure. I will 100% sink you for your supps if you are stacked. We generally have 1500-2000 cannons, 50 chains, a page of wood, 30+ pineapples and 20+ cooked meat. If your sever hopping and looking for every fight it’s the most important thing.

  • @pyerack I still think you shouldn’t merge severs. I have dealt with this too and I’ve lost to this as it’s a war of attrition. The best way to handle it is to ABSOLUTELY SMASH them so they get the pint or send a solid boarder and just anchor and hold them down while you do your thing. Ships like this I have no issue camping you and preventing you from coming back at my ship again.

    Back to the weapons. I honestly hate boarding against sword lords. It’s trash I’d rather be quick swapped as it least it was skill and not 4 people thronged or M1 spamming me. The meta is changing slightly. I’d like to see the Throwing Knives buffed some. Definitely not 1 tap but maybe 70% damage thrown as you have to be closer than the EOR also you can’t quick scope the knife…… yet

  • As a golden bones servant of flame, I cannot count how many people I've sunk for supplies, chiefly chainshots and pineapples.

    Supplies are 100% a viable target and reward for PvP in and of themselves.

  • @pyerack the new weapons are a fun pve addition but any sign of pvp play and they go straight back in the box.

  • @look-behind-you most of us try to play this silly pirate game in the spirit intended but you have these sweaty pvp masters killing you all the time... 🤣

  • @jon-sea-nah said in New weapons are cool but this won't shake up the pvp "meta". Please take a more direct approach.:

    @lordqulex said in

    But resources aren't a reward for sinking someone. The emissary ledger shows the top "winners" each month by gold earned. There is no emissary ledger for supplies. Technically yes, you can turn in supply crates to the MA, but since they don't hand those out for free the crates are the discovered loot, not the supplies that go in them. So no, there is no inherent reward for sinking an empty ship by the game's own rules, outside of hourglass.

    100% FALSE! Resources are life my friend and Chains are the most valuable treasure. I will 100% sink you for your supps if you are stacked. We generally have 1500-2000 cannons, 50 chains, a page of wood, 30+ pineapples and 20+ cooked meat.

    Agreed, resources are life. Chains are valuable. But that is because Sea of Thieve is part resource management game; it goes without saying the resources are important. Proper resource management helps you win the game, but they are not the objective of the game.

    If your sever hopping and looking for every fight it’s the most important thing.

    And this is what I'm railing against. The above activity is not the intended game. This is something you are capable of doing in a sandbox, true. Most pirates on the seas are PvEvP'ers who want to collect loot and fight over loot to ultimately turn in loot. Pirates who hop servers exclusively to find fights then hop again (leaving behind the treasure) aren't playing the same game as their quarry. It's like two kids showing up to a park, one with a soccer ball and the other picking it up and running for a touchdown. Server hopping for a fight is an affliction on the bulk of the player base and a behavior I would consider patching if I were executive producer.

    This is not CoD. This is not Chivalry. This is not Skull and Bones. This is not a PvP game. This is a PvEvP game. Without treasure at stake PvP is buggy, monotonous, and hollow. Take the animation cancelling patch for example. Double-gunning META chasers railed against its removal because "animation cancelling [was] tech, not a bug!" No, it was a bug. "Serious, competitive" pirates wanted to keep a bug in the game because it gave them an edge in CQC over pirates who didn't use it.

    Look Behind You said it best: Sea of Thieves is not a serious game at heart, never has been. Some people play it as a serious, competitive game at times but at the end of the day it is a silly pirate game.

    If you like serious combat games, if you like PvP without any accoutrements, go find that game. It's out there for you. This is not it.

  • @lordqulex said in New weapons are cool but this won't shake up the pvp "meta". Please take a more direct approach.:

    @jon-sea-nah said in New weapons are cool but this won't shake up the pvp "meta". Please take a more direct approach.:

    @lordqulex said in

    But resources aren't a reward for sinking someone. The emissary ledger shows the top "winners" each month by gold earned. There is no emissary ledger for supplies. Technically yes, you can turn in supply crates to the MA, but since they don't hand those out for free the crates are the discovered loot, not the supplies that go in them. So no, there is no inherent reward for sinking an empty ship by the game's own rules, outside of hourglass.

    100% FALSE! Resources are life my friend and Chains are the most valuable treasure. I will 100% sink you for your supps if you are stacked. We generally have 1500-2000 cannons, 50 chains, a page of wood, 30+ pineapples and 20+ cooked meat.

    Agreed, resources are life. Chains are valuable. But that is because Sea of Thieve is part resource management game; it goes without saying the resources are important. Proper resource management helps you win the game, but they are not the objective of the game.

    If your sever hopping and looking for every fight it’s the most important thing.

    And this is what I'm railing against. The above activity is not the intended game. This is something you are capable of doing in a sandbox, true. Most pirates on the seas are PvEvP'ers who want to collect loot and fight over loot to ultimately turn in loot. Pirates who hop servers exclusively to find fights then hop again (leaving behind the treasure) aren't playing the same game as their quarry. It's like two kids showing up to a park, one with a soccer ball and the other picking it up and running for a touchdown. Server hopping for a fight is an affliction on the bulk of the player base and a behavior I would consider patching if I were executive producer.

    This is not CoD. This is not Chivalry. This is not Skull and Bones. This is not a PvP game. This is a PvEvP game. Without treasure at stake PvP is buggy, monotonous, and hollow. Take the animation cancelling patch for example. Double-gunning META chasers railed against its removal because "animation cancelling [was] tech, not a bug!" No, it was a bug. "Serious, competitive" pirates wanted to keep a bug in the game because it gave them an edge in CQC over pirates who didn't use it.

    Look Behind You said it best: Sea of Thieves is not a serious game at heart, never has been. Some people play it as a serious, competitive game at times but at the end of the day it is a silly pirate game.

    If you like serious combat games, if you like PvP without any accoutrements, go find that game. It's out there for you. This is not it.

    Who said we are t selling loot? The game mechanics used to be you had to have certain checkpoints to hop, now the game is making everyone hop constantly. The game isn’t meant for people to scuttle and switch servers immediately upon contact but you brag about doing that. So yes as a ship looking to fight for loot we throw down a voyage, hop, dig up 2 treasure chests and hunt.

    Saying that the game is PVE then PVP doesn’t make any sense. It’s PVEVP you wanna fight skellys? Cool have fun, I personally like the challenge of fighting crews plus there is big money in it.

    I play this game as I want to be a pirate. Skull N Bones is not pvp and no boarding aspects or other things I love about this game. I dislike COD quite a bit. I’m not breaking any community guidelines and my crew stays pretty wholesome unless you are the type to start calling us “Gamer Words” then we will make it a point to make sure you understand who’s in charge on your ship.

    I hate that simply because some pirates enjoy the outlaw pirate life that the game offers we are told that we are playing the game wrong or that we are toxic. I’m sorry some of you want a loot dig and turn in simulator this isn’t it.

    Back to the supps. I will sink ships all day long for supps. Without them we sink and or may have a harder time fighting other ships. So to pretend that solely because I can’t sell supps that again I am somehow “””not playing the game as intended””” I think is how you put it. You are missing the point. If you lose to a ship and you get on their ship to see 2000 cannons, 30+ chains and lots of good food, there is a reason you sank with basic supplies. I can throw chains for days and just RAIN cannons. It arguably takes longer for us to get our ship to grade 5 and supp’d up to fight and hunt than it does for players to do a gold hoarder vault. It’s not just “ope 30 cannons let’s go ruin everyone’s day” you’d likely sink…

    There are nothing wrong with sever hopping reapers ESPECIALLY in season 12 where everyone dives for everything. If you’ve ever ran and server hopped to avoid a player then you are just as “guilty” of not playing the game correctly.

  • @jon-sea-nah
    TL:DR

    so basically you're telling people how they do not play the game as "intended" and how it should be played according to you/devs:

    I hate that simply because some pirates enjoy the outlaw pirate life that the game offers we are told that we are playing the game wrong or that we are toxic. I’m sorry some of you want a loot dig and turn in simulator this isn’t it.

    they point out how you don't play as "intended" as well:

    Proper resource management helps you win the game, but they are not the objective of the game.

    Most pirates on the seas are PvEvP'ers who want to collect loot and fight over loot to ultimately turn in loot. Pirates who hop servers exclusively to find fights then hop again (leaving behind the treasure) aren't playing the same game as their quarry.

    and your response is that because they don't play the game as intended, their opinion of you not playing as intended is not valid. LOL, that's rich xD Especially since there's a lot of "I" in your replies. Says enough.

    Newsflash: "your" way, is not everyone's way. And it's definitely not intended. It's pure PvP oriented mindset in a PvPvE environment. No difference between you (and likeminded ones), and "turn off PvP completely" crowd on the other side of the spectrum. And no, just because devs allowed this to slip, doesn't mean it was their intention, or that it wasn't a mistake.

    Give it some time, let that sink in. If it doesn't, try reading it again to see the funny side of it.

  • @r3vanns said in New weapons are cool but this won't shake up the pvp "meta". Please take a more direct approach.:

    @jon-sea-nah
    TL:DR

    so basically you're telling people how they do not play the game as "intended" and how it should be played according to you/devs:

    I hate that simply because some pirates enjoy the outlaw pirate life that the game offers we are told that we are playing the game wrong or that we are toxic. I’m sorry some of you want a loot dig and turn in simulator this isn’t it.

    they point out how you don't play as "intended" as well:

    Proper resource management helps you win the game, but they are not the objective of the game.

    Most pirates on the seas are PvEvP'ers who want to collect loot and fight over loot to ultimately turn in loot. Pirates who hop servers exclusively to find fights then hop again (leaving behind the treasure) aren't playing the same game as their quarry.

    and your response is that because they don't play the game as intended, their opinion of you not playing as intended is not valid. LOL, that's rich xD Especially since there's a lot of "I" in your replies. Says enough.

    Newsflash: "your" way, is not everyone's way. And it's definitely not intended. It's pure PvP oriented mindset in a PvPvE environment. No difference between you (and likeminded ones), and "turn off PvP completely" crowd on the other side of the spectrum. And no, just because devs allowed this to slip, doesn't mean it was their intention, or that it wasn't a mistake.

    Give it some time, let that sink in. If it doesn't, try reading it again to see the funny side of it.

    If you’ve ever read any of my posts you’d see I defend all ways of life on this game as it is a sandbox game. What I was pointing out above is once you say “this is the way the game is played” you open yourself up to comments like what I said. For my first 3 years in the game I was a PVE lord and was dumpstered by almost any crew. I got better and found some crews I play a lot with and my style has changed. I’ll still do some world events here and there but mainly we are looking for fights. There is nothing wrong with either of these, in fact I think the game needs both to truly flourish.

    Without PVE lords PVP/Reaper types have no incentive to hunt/exist as it is “intended” to be the PVP faction. I don’t care if you PVE lord as a Reaper, I hunt as a Merchant too. Im just pointing this out as an example. Without people hunting you or the “threat of being hunted the game turns into a loot grab simulator as PVE probably isn’t gonna sink you and cost you everything. Would this be fun? To some people probably, but once you have X million and never sink, never challenged, never looking over your shoulder, then it COULD get quite boring and to me personally it would! With both element in the game you get a much bigger and in depth world. You have to calculate how much you are willing to risk. How confident are you in your PVP to continue to stack loot or do you play it safe and sell often. I give you a reason to watch that map, I give you a reason to be on the lookout. PVP players are the reason the sense of urgency. It’s exciting when it’s dangerous.

    I get it being sunk can absolutely suck, I sink too and sometimes I gotta take a 5 minute break to realign lol. It does happen and I think making a game where it almost certainly guarantee that you never sink, if you’re a competent crew, then the game with grow stale rather quickly.

  • @jon-sea-nah

    In that case, I thank you for the will and effort to expand on it. This is a type of answer I can both respect, and actually agree with most parts.

    I may not agree with part about what is fun or not and to whom (cuz everybody has their own idea of fun), but it is true at the end of the day that this game isn't created as a farming adventure solo/co-op game. No matter if 5 people or 50000 people ask for such a mode, it doesn't change the fact the game wasn't created with this in mind. No debate there.

    So I'll be honest and say that I have initially challenged you as I didn't like how you have worded some parts before, which could've been completely subjective (and with that, unfair) on my end. I apologize if I came out too aggressive. I admit it was a reflex type of behavior on my end due to some other people on the forum, and that's not ok on my behalf.

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