S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?

@d3adst1ck

I don’t care about diving. I can choose not to do it. But starting out on your ship and just grabbing a voyage direct from the captain’s table negates a big part of the experience. The people that want that experience are definitely going to be more at home in Safer Seas.

@grisch1801 said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

@d3adst1ck

I don’t care about diving. I can choose not to do it. But starting out on your ship and just grabbing a voyage direct from the captain’s table negates a big part of the experience. The people that want that experience are definitely going to be more at home in Safer Seas.

Not true. Getting right to the first island will be a BIG help when I am playing for a short session before work, when I only have 1-1 1/2 hours to spare. Can make even Athena voyages beneficial in that short time by eliminating that initial slog across the map that happens more times than not. And I am a High Sea player, Safer Seas only coming into play for me when creating specific content or working on some of the more annoying Tall Tales (but still have not used it yet as I am working on other goals).

You may not like or use it but that does not mean a lot of us High Seas players do not see the value in these additions. Since it is only for the first destination and any treasure on board is lost, it is really just a time saver to get right to what you want to do. Does not really take anything way from the game as you still have to sail to any other stops as well as to turn in at outposts, so more ships will likely have treasure on the seas if used extensively. And the original way of sailing and collecting supplies along the way game style is still available, so why the beef?

@grisch1801 it’s been said multiple times that Safer Seas will not get exclusive features.

I'm struggling to understand how people are struggling to understand the thought process behind season 11 tbh...

But first, to answer your question: what would be the point of having the onboarding feature ONLY on Safer Seas if it can be in both? what if a new player just wants to play in high seas from the start?

Also, if all you got from Season 11 Deep Dive is that its focus is on onboarding new players I think you didn't pay attention properly. Season 11 is an overhaul of Voyages that makes a more clear progression path for new players, by also adding voyages that makes it easier for new players to understand the mood of the game and hwo voyages works; but it also streamlines the Voyage system for everyone else by making it less tedious to engage with, more predictable (there should be less RNG) and more balanced in terms of gold/time so that you don't feel forced to play X voyage just because it makes 3 times the gold compared to Y (or at least that's one of the goals, we'll see if they succeeded). Season 11 imo enhances the core gameplay for all players by giving that freedom in how to make progress that we kind of lost with emissaries. And don't get me wrong, emissaries has been one of my favorite updates, but one of the cons is that World Event, which are supposed to be high risk high rewards, became extremely unefficient compared to some Voyages simply because of how the emissary system works: you get more mone for company specific loot, so 1 third of the loot in a World Event is worth half the gold. Now you can dive straight to a World Event of your choice that is "trading company themed", for people like me who prefer World Events and player interaction/PvP to mindlessly stacking Ashen Vaults with no risk this is a big win.

I also don't understand the negativity towards diving to the voyage first destination:
A. It makes starting a Voyage faster, by cutting down just going form point A to B with nothing on your ship. Which is a choice btw, if you really don't like it that much then don't use it, but remember that using this feature will only add more time to questing and sailing with loot on board by cutting down sailing from point A to B with no loot (there's also a cooldown, can't be used near players, you want emerge on an active fort and you lose loot on diving).
B. The implication of A is that it will be less likely to encounter an empty ship that just got started and more likely to find a ship that's doing a quest and/or sailing with loot. It just makes the sandbox more alive.

Really, I don't see the negatives... like, even if you like sailing remember that that time you spared by diving you'll be using it to do the actual voyage AND still sailing (and you still have the choice!)

Instead now everyone is forced to play voyages from a menu on their captain’s table instead of the more immersive and interesting way of walking around an outpost interacting with NPCs.

I can see why you'd say that, but I don't this does change the mood that much, we got new and better UI bot for starting a voyage on ship and for the NPCs themselves, you'll still have to interact manually with the NPC for promotions, maintining that feeling, starting quests will just require one less step of going through and obsolete menu, making it faster by getting rid of a step that doesn't add much to the gameplay, as said you'll still be interacting with the NPCs, the trading company specific shop that you can open only by interacting with specific NPCs and having a much more clear progression adds much more immersion imo.

@d3adst1ck
We could ignore the captaincy voyages and never look at them?

I see no reason why they couldn't also be available in Safer Seas.

Edit - I misread the OP - though he wanted to have the voyages for new players only on Safer Seas, not the new player voyage system.

Having two ways of handling voyages would become a real mess - first of all, if new players start in Safer Seas and learn how to do voyages via the quest table and then move to Higher Seas and they have to learn how to use the merchants would Safer Seas disqualify as a learning experience - one of the reasons why Safer Seas is here.

Secondly, it may cause issues between the two ways if they both are available in the same mode; it's better to have one way.

@dlchief58
Again, I’m not complaining about diving. I’ve said this multiple times. There are “features” some players may not care for, like diving, but we can simply choose to ignore them.

Having all the voyages on the captain’s table on the ship is not something that can be ignored. Everyone now has to engage from there. Waking up in the tavern, walking down to the trading company reps and looking at their voyages was immersive, and built a sense of the world and your connection to it.

I’m all for allowing players to negate parts of the game if that’s how they want to play, but don’t force everyone to play that way.

All of the talk about creating a predictable space for new players to engage in whatever activity they want ‘on demand’ sounds exactly like what Safer Seas was.

@d3adst1ck If you watched the deep dive, they stated that everyone will now wake up on their ships instead of the tavern and the captain’s desk is the source of all voyages. So you literally CANNOT still do all of that.

After watching the video few things that stuck out.

• Shorter sessions, way I take from that is...they dont want players to play long periods or spend time in there game. Sure you could say it for those who have limited time but still.

• Predictable sessions. Im sorry but I rather not know what to expect. That is what the Sea is, unpredictable changes.

One thing Ive had people ask me, Doing the Monkey Island TT, How did Lechuck get the Sword? Good question, you missed the adventure.. So many story elements locked away in the past. I feel they should of added those alternate Adventures into the new UI instead, New Players are missing more than simply starting a session and still getting sunk :P

• "Sailing to the first island is slowest part". No joke yet that why its an open sea... You sail toward your first island and yet you may stop at every island on your way, fight a skeleton or Meg. By the time you got to the first island, you have more treasure than the simple X or two :P

IF they really wanted to speed up the process of things, they should just make it where you can turn in any Loot on your ship into a magic mirror that connects to the Faction your doing. No need to Port.

Now, even if you find that X and dig it up...you dont even need to bring it. You still get Rep, Small sure but that nothing. You can now sail around doing free voyages, finish it and get Rep. No need to even bother with hoarding. And with trials/Deeds/ & small events..you can earn gold just fishing or eating all types of fruit. (sometimes 3000-9000 gold)

You dont really need to leave your ship it seems...and if you got sunk. Oh well, load up a new ship and start again. Pvp 50% of the time nobody has loot will jump to 80% :p

Also, if your chasing a ship...I believe they can simply Dive to Run away, regardless of loot. Making pvp on the open sea worthless unless you play HG (which I dont wanna)

Maybe Im Old...todays gamers are just...just that. They need everything to be simple and easy, with no real reason.

@grisch1801 said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

@d3adst1ck If you watched the deep dive, they stated that everyone will now wake up on their ships instead of the tavern and the captain’s desk is the source of all voyages. So you literally CANNOT still do all of that.

So what? Those are minimal things and really do not add anything to immersiveness, especially those of us who have been through all that for YEARS now. The vendors will still be there for cosmetic purchases and buying promotions. Buying voyages is probably the least immersive thing in the game.

Maybe now people will realize that their ship is their home base instead of asking for some useless hideout.

I see a lot of unfounded negativity towards these changes in your post.

@burnbacon said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

After watching the video few things that stuck out.

• Shorter sessions, way I take from that is...they dont want players to play long periods or spend time in there game. Sure you could say it for those who have limited time but still.

This has long been a player complaint about the time commitment. It is not that Rare wants people to play shorter, they want it to be more productive.

• Predictable sessions. Im sorry but I rather not know what to expect. That is what the Sea is, unpredictable changes.

And you can still do that if you choose. That has not changed.

One thing Ive had people ask me, Doing the Monkey Island TT, How did Lechuck get the Sword? Good question, you missed the adventure.. So many story elements locked away in the past. I feel they should of added those alternate Adventures into the new UI instead, New Players are missing more than simply starting a session and still getting sunk :P

• "Sailing to the first island is slowest part". No joke yet that why its an open sea... You sail toward your first island and yet you may stop at every island on your way, fight a skeleton or Meg. By the time you got to the first island, you have more treasure than the simple X or two :P

And again you can still do that if you choose. Or if you are short on time and are just trying to knock out a specific task, you can get to it much quicker.

IF they really wanted to speed up the process of things, they should just make it where you can turn in any Loot on your ship into a magic mirror that connects to the Faction your doing. No need to Port.

That removes loot being transported upon the seas and removes the risk/reward factor. As they said in the Deep Dive, the best way was to eliminate that first leg where you have no treasure.

Now, even if you find that X and dig it up...you dont even need to bring it. You still get Rep, Small sure but that nothing. You can now sail around doing free voyages, finish it and get Rep. No need to even bother with hoarding. And with trials/Deeds/ & small events..you can earn gold just fishing or eating all types of fruit. (sometimes 3000-9000 gold)

You dont really need to leave your ship it seems...and if you got sunk. Oh well, load up a new ship and start again. Pvp 50% of the time nobody has loot will jump to 80% :p

You will still need to leave the ship if you want to cash out your treasure, buy promotions, purchase cosmetics/liveries or restock supplies, as well as to do the actual voyages. Or board other ships.

Also, if your chasing a ship...I believe they can simply Dive to Run away, regardless of loot. Making pvp on the open sea worthless unless you play HG (which I dont wanna)

I am sure there are safeguards to prevent that, much lie they have in Hourglass. If you are too close to another ship you likely will not be able to dive. They patched out the Red Sea running so it is safe to assume they would not allow Diving to duck combat when pursued closely.

Maybe Im Old...todays gamers are just...just that. They need everything to be simple and easy, with no real reason.

Streamlining the interface and making it more efficient does not necessarily translate to "simple & easy". These all seem like decent Quality of Life upgrades that will enhance the experience and create more efficiency, while retaining most of the original feel if you so choose. It should also increase the chances of encountering a ship that is actually carrying loot.

I was skeptical of the changes myself until I watched the Deep Dive. After that I really have no qualms with it.

@d3adst1ck said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

@needsmokes said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

So now we start on the ship?
They didn't state this in the video at all as far as I'm aware. Not sure where OP is getting that info from.

Watch from 15:31

@d3adst1ck said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

@needsmokes said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

So now we start on the ship?

That means I'm going to have to jump to the Dock (Probably fall in the water half the time) then gather supplies and vote an emissary, long way up if spawned at ancient spire and I'm running athenas.

I'll be at the outpost longer than ever!

They didn't state this in the video at all as far as I'm aware. Not sure where OP is getting that info from.

Actually they did state in the video you will wake on your ship instead of the Tavern, and the Pirate Lord will give more in depth tutorials there (in the beginning at least).

However I think the person you replied to is exaggerating the time spent prepping at outpost.When factoring in the other collecting done at Ancient Spire (the worst case scenario) I think the difference in prep time would be minimal to negligible.

@d3adst1ck said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

@grisch1801 That's for when you come from the Maiden Voyage only.

Ok, well if that’s the case, that’s one less issue I have. (Again though, they could have just spawned the player directly into Safer Seas and let them mess around until they were ready for HS.)

I don’t directly have an issue with diving as I simply won’t use it, and I’m not going to tell other people how to play the game.

The only real remaining issue I have is having all of your voyages on the captain’s table. We’ve moved from being an immersive world to playing a menu. I would like to turn that off and walk around to find stuff.

If I wanted ‘efficient’ I wouldn’t be playing a video game, I’d be working on another certification. If I wanted to just ‘dive directly into the action’ I’d have signed up for a game that wasn’t an exploration/sailing sandbox.

@d3adst1ck said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

@grisch1801 That's for when you come from the Maiden Voyage only.

They did not state that specifically. It is heavily implied that the ship is now the main focus thus makes sense you would wake up there.

@d3adst1ck said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

@dlchief58 said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

@d3adst1ck said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

@needsmokes said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

So now we start on the ship?

That means I'm going to have to jump to the Dock (Probably fall in the water half the time) then gather supplies and vote an emissary, long way up if spawned at ancient spire and I'm running athenas.

I'll be at the outpost longer than ever!

They didn't state this in the video at all as far as I'm aware. Not sure where OP is getting that info from.

Actually they did state in the video you will wake on your ship instead of the Tavern, and the Pirate Lord will give more in depth tutorials there (in the beginning at least).

However I think the person you replied to is exaggerating the time spent prepping at outpost.When factoring in the other collecting done at Ancient Spire (the worst case scenario) I think the difference in prep time would be minimal to negligible.

That's only for the Maiden Voyage transition, so that new players don't just get dumped into the game world after completing the tutorial mission.

They did not state that specifically. It is heavily implied that the ship is now the main focus thus makes sense you would wake up there. Tutorials after Maiden Voyage, sure, but waking up on the ship seems like a logical progression with them putting more focus on the ship this season.

Watching it again, I believe Deadst1ck is correct. He specifically states “Going from the maiden voyage to the main world there wasn’t much of a transition”. They really do seem to be specifically talking about the initial player experience after maiden voyage and not every session.

@d3adst1ck said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

@dlchief58 said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

They did not state that specifically. It is heavily implied that the ship is now the main focus thus makes sense you would wake up there. Tutorials after Maiden Voyage, sure, but waking up on the ship seems like a logical progression with them putting more focus on the ship this season.

You have to read the context of the sentence in which the "wake up on ship" information appears. If you assume that it happens all the time, you must also assume that every time you load into the game the Pirate Lord will lecture you about how to start a voyage which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

It's very clearly referencing the transition from Maiden Voyage to main game world, and providing additional tutorial to player once they arrive from the tutorial area, and not for every player starting the game.

Maybe so, we'll see come Tuesday (or if I decide to check the Insider's before then). I'd personally prefer waking in my ship bunk and getting right to it, so if not changed I hope they add an option later for you to choose where you wake (Tavern or ship bunk).

@dlchief58 Add an option? Yes please. Force the change on people? No thanks.

@grisch1801 said in S11 Deep Dive: Couldn’t the new player features just have gone into Safer Seas?:

@dlchief58 Add an option? Yes please. Force the change on people? No thanks.

Even if this does end up being a change, it is utterly insignificant and hardly anything worth complaining about as it does nothing to remove the "immersion" you keep railing about. Instead of waking up drunk in the Tavern you would do the same on your own ship bunk.

@burnbacon

Predictable sessions. Im sorry but I rather not know what to expect. That is what the Sea is, unpredictable changes.

Dephends, the kind of predictability they are talking about is having consistent voyages rewards and lengths; Rerolling the voyage because it gave 5 islands with one treasure each or a very far away island isn't what I'd call "healthy unpredictability" (specially personally, as an efficient-oriented player I really disliked that). Who you encounter, where and what will happen during a given session will stay as unpredictable as ever :) (maybe it will be more likely to find ship with loot onboard and less likely to find empty ships, but that's still on the "good side" of something being predictable for me)

@dlchief58

If it’s utterly insignificant to you then just leave it be.

@sairdontis

There is no "diving when under attack". Just like when starting an hourglass session, if another player ship is even remotely the same area as you, you cannon dive for any reason.

That includes any ships that are actively in pursuit of you with or without loot on board, unless you've got a lead on them that is so prodigious that they'd never have caught you anyway.