Parlay as a decaying reputation system

  • b4njAx
    Seafarer

    I've been thinking about some form of parlay in this game for years and now I have a bit more knowledge about game development I think I have a viable suggestion for how to do it without compromising the core gameplay.

    So, I am thinking that if Parlay was a kind of global new reputation tied to all trading companies, almost like the outposts having their own rep system. I reckon it could work like this...

    When on the same outpost as another crew, all crew members in close proximity of each other would gain levels in Parlay passively for not killing each other, up to a maximum. This could benefit from using a variety of emotes (with a short cooldown to avoid spamming), drinking grog together, forming and holding Alliances, etc.

    Once out at sea and far enough away from an outpost, your reputation would decay slowly. The decay would be even slower if in an alliance and sailing within a certain distance of each other. The greater the level of Parlay, the slower the decay will be when on the seas completing voyages. In the event that someone gets killed by another at the outpost, thus breaking the parlay, the offending side's Parlay rep will immediately begin to decay at a slightly faster rate than normal for a limited amount of time.

    Based on the level of Parlay, there's a marginal to great bonus to overall trading company reputation gain because they see you as honourable pirates who respect the code.

    I feel this system would work because it has the incentive of easing reputation grinds and enables more friendly interactions at outposts to make them feel more lively and less intimidating to dock at if someone is already there. Should help facilitate roleplay too. Lastly since it's opt-in, it doesn't deny players their right to be aggressive but rewards them if they aren't.

    So yeah, throw in some nice commendations on top of it and I think it'll enrich the High Seas experience for everyone. I also think that thematically it does make sense too.

    Not sure if it should have an effect or be affected by Hourglass factions but Rare are smarter than me so I'll leave that one to them.

  • Login To Reply
    38
    Posts
    16.6k
    Views
  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    It's never really worked that well. They've tried to incentivize specific encounters for years and really it leads to the cheesing/coordinated side rushing out and getting it done and then a lot of other people are left to try to find cooperation, much of which they will never or rarely find.

    In a way it's often made it worse for people that are trying to find more peaceful encounters.

  • b4njAx
    Seafarer

    @wolfmanbush What do you mean? Did they do something like this before?

  • Foambreaker
    Sailor

    So discourage PvP.

    No.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @b4njax said in Parlay as a decaying reputation system:

    @wolfmanbush What do you mean? Did they do something like this before?

    What you are trying to create is a non-organic scenario that uses incentives to possibly alter behavior in an environment that can be quite harsh for many.

    This is very similar to all the times they have attached cooperation to requirements. Commendations/adventures/events/etc. It never ends well because people clash very often.

    The intent is pure but the reality of the environment doesn't support the intent.

    This is why I often criticize the alliance feature. It creates expectations which leads to more disappointment. People will attach to scenarios that nobody has obligations to participate in. This leads them to feeling discouraged, betrayed, and to having more negative opinions about the community based on their personal experiences.

    It's not a bad idea, it's good intent, but it will set people up for unrealistic expectations and that creates harsh outcome for many.

    Many do not have much power in this game, they just gotta deal with what happens, putting them in these situations like this over rewards is sacrificing a lot of experiences for a few good ones, imo.

  • heslashthem
    Legend
    Insider

    So you want to completely discourage PvP and you say this idea doesn’t affect core gameplay? Sorry, awful idea.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    A solution to a problem that does not exist. At least this is what I understood from your post.

    Best 'parlay' are hard to get cosmetics. I doubt many pirates would start a fight with someone who has 'wandering reaper' sails as an example.

    Another good 'parlay' is being able to defend yourself and showing another crew you can fight.

    No other system will ever work. Even skeleton bots try to sink other ships.

    P.S. Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating nor supporting sinking new players. But from experience, it's the new players who are always ultra aggressive on the seas. Veteran players have a good nose to sniff out worthy targets and leave ships with 2 seafarer chests alone.

  • Ghutar
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    TlDr: You can't force folks to be nice.

    I uderstand idea but as we live in highly cheesable seas I think eny reward system would not change behavior of other pirates.

    Yet I still think that longer distance, non spamable, predefined messages send from ship to ship would help a lott in this manner couse we tend to be less aggresive against folks that we allready talk to a little by.

    Phrases like:

    Parrley!
    Let's meet on [location name]!
    Let's form alliance!
    Yes
    No
    Get off my property!

    Etc.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    I get the intention behind the idea, but the reality is that all you're adding is a grindable buff and commendation set that can be done either between two parties who agree to do it or for tucking on an outpost as new crews spawn in or stop by. It doesn't change the way a player approaches the game in a meaningful way outside of the buff, so the default behaviour will be to grind out the parley high enough to see appreciable benefit or unlock the commendations they want and then go back to doing something else.

    I'm also not sure that encouraging players to hang around a spawn/turn in point is a good idea either.

  • b4njAx
    Seafarer

    @tesiccl said in Parlay as a decaying reputation system:

    So you want to completely discourage PvP and you say this idea doesn’t affect core gameplay? Sorry, awful idea.

    @foambreaker said in Parlay as a decaying reputation system:

    So discourage PvP.

    It's more about encouraging non-PvP interactions specifically at outposts. Not sure how you got the "completely discourage PvP" idea. That was never my intention.

    @zig-zag-ltu said in Parlay as a decaying reputation system:

    A solution to a problem that does not exist. At least this is what I understood from your post.

    Outposts are ghost towns. I personally consider that a problem, particularly with Port Merrick and surely I'm not the only one. Also there's an unbalance of incentives between PvP and non-PvP interactions. Then again, who knows, Rare might already be thinking about fixing that with more NPCs to populate the outposts like they did with Melee Island in the Monkey Island Tall Tale.

    Best 'parlay' are hard to get cosmetics. I doubt many pirates would start a fight with someone who has 'wandering reaper' sails as an example.

    Another good 'parlay' is being able to defend yourself and showing another crew you can fight.

    Thanks for helping me realise I used the wrong spelling. That said in this context I imagine people would've understood I am referring to "Parley", i.e. to have a discussion between enemies or opposing sides.

    @ghutar said in Parlay as a decaying reputation system:

    TlDr: You can't force folks to be nice.

    I don't see how suggesting an opt-in system is at all the same as forcing folks to be nice.

    Yet I still think that longer distance, non spamable, predefined messages send from ship to ship would help a lott in this manner couse we tend to be less aggresive against folks that we allready talk to a little by.

    Aye I would agree with that. Good point.

    @d3adst1ck said in Parlay as a decaying reputation system:

    I get the intention behind the idea, but the reality is that all you're adding is a grindable buff and commendation set that can be done either between two parties who agree to do it or for tucking on an outpost as new crews spawn in or stop by. It doesn't change the way a player approaches the game in a meaningful way outside of the buff, so the default behaviour will be to grind out the parley high enough to see appreciable benefit or unlock the commendations they want and then go back to doing something else.

    To be fair, I'm not adding anything, just making a suggestion I believe in and that could have a place in this game. Also there's plenty of things to grind for with PvP anyways, why is it such a no-no to have such things for roleplay and non-PvP too? The game is arguably as it's best when there's a good balance of PvP and PvE, one shouldn't be more or less important than the other.

    I'm also not sure that encouraging players to hang around a spawn/turn in point is a good idea either.

    I have no doubt it probably isn't. Just as much as it probably is. Completely dependant on who's doing what where and why.

    Look, I get that it's wishful thinking. Just wish ye weren't so quick to just shoot it down. Like is anyone gonna give me some credit for trying to come up with a version of Parley that doesn't effectively turn on a hard-coded immunity shield like other parley suggestions have done in the past?

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    Tl;dr..

    It's spelled Parley. You lost me on spelling.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @b4njax Well due to limitations and Rare's love of ''doing first and thinking later'', Port Merrick is a ghost town that looks great in promo videos, but serves no real purpose.

    That being said, I love outposts without other crews, dont need other pirates taking my crews supplies, blocking the way, pvp for no reason etc (the game wont have safe heaven where you sell loot, so PVP would be inevitable)

    Also, I don't know about you, but if a pirate I don't want to come close (which is most) - comes close. I shoot first, ask questions later. What would this infamous system mean if new players who don't or can't pvp have a good rating and every other single pirate is infamous? Why would anyone care about this system in general?

    If your ship is at the outpost and my ship is at the outpost and we are not ''socializing'', but just keeping guns lowered due to some system. Sure as hell I will try to steal your supplies, you will see it and shoot at me anyway, lowering your own 'score'.

    Also....My factions are maxed as per your suggestion, that system would be meaningless to me at least, new pirates sure would try to follow to max gains, but this would only increase posts ''we were friendly and people just shoot and sink us - this game sucks im leaving''

    Also you have to take something into consideration, nothing ever works on humans if its forced. As an example if we could play at an outpost: ''Poker, game of dice, duel for money, etc'' Then socializing might become fun and a wanted feature, if it's some sort of number game forced on you, nobody would care about it and find ways to cheese it and do what they would anyhow.

    Also....

    alt text

  • Foambreaker
    Sailor

    @b4njax said in Parlay as a decaying reputation system:

    @foambreaker said in Parlay as a decaying reputation system:

    So discourage PvP.

    It's more about encouraging non-PvP interactions specifically at outposts. Not sure how you got the "completely" discourage PvP" idea. That was never my intention.

    Talk about spin 🤣

    And "completely" was your word not mine.

  • b4njAx
    Seafarer

    @pithyrumble I genuinely respect that. Really wish I could edit my initial post and fix it.

  • Arthur79474
    Marauder
    Insider

    @zig-zag-ltu said in Parlay as a decaying reputation system:

    @b4njax Well due to limitations and Rare's love of ''doing first and thinking later'', Port Merrick is a ghost town that looks great in promo videos, but serves no real purpose.

    I thought Port Merrick looked pretty nice and liked spawning there.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @arthur79474 It does look nice. But the area is massive. To sovereigns, The tavern, Gold hoarders, OOS, Merchants and shipwright and of course reapers take up a huge area, but at least useful. What about the rest which is almost equal in size? ^^

  • b4njAx
    Seafarer

    @foambreaker said in Parlay as a decaying reputation system:

    And "completely" was your word not mine.

    "Completely" was @Tesiccl's word. Ye both talked about discouraging PvP so I bundled your quotes.

  • Arthur79474
    Marauder
    Insider

    @zig-zag-ltu I think we need to brainstorm some uses for the other open spaces, though it does make for some good RPing at least.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @arthur79474 Well I have hopes that Rare have something up their sleeve down the line to make a use of it. The problem is that things take time, a long long time.

    Online there is a joke term called - Valve time...Perhaps we can have some kind of an inside one for 'Rare time' ^^

  • b4njAx
    Seafarer

    @zig-zag-ltu You do you but just because it's what you'd do, doesn't mean it's what everyone would do. I wouldn't and I'm sure I'm not alone on that, neither are you. People would engage with it however they want and that's the point. It just another thing that people could engage with if they want to.

    Fair play on maxing your rep everywhere though. Would that mean you'd be in favour of the idea floating around about removing reputation caps? I'm just curious.

    Also you have to take something into consideration, nothing ever works on humans if its forced.

    Again, it's opt-in, it's not forced.

    As an example if we could play at an outpost: ''Poker, game of dice, duel for money, etc'' Then socializing might become fun and a wanted feature

    Exactly the kind of thing I hope could follow a feature like this.

  • b4njAx
    Seafarer

    @arthur79474 said in Parlay as a decaying reputation system:

    @zig-zag-ltu I think we need to brainstorm some uses for the other open spaces, though it does make for some good RPing at least.

    This ^

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @b4njax You are right, everyone is different and approach things as they see fit.

    I 100% support the idea of increasing reputation caps and I have expressed numerous times, the idea is usually met here by few people with a strong opposition and we (as usual) have a back and forth discussion about it. Let's see if it happens again :D.

    But regarding this infamous system... I am not against it in general, but the way you proposed it is flawed and I try to bring a few examples (from my own perspective as well) to explain why I think it's like that.

    If this infamous score would be a lot more complicated and it would be more about: giving away loot (positive), sinking pirates with an empty ship (negative), playing shanties together (small positive boost), doing glitter beard (big positive boost), killing alliance members (big negative loss of rep) etc......Then I am all up for it, but there is not much incentive for adding such feature.

    You see the game is not an rpg or a simulator. Such systems would create strong incentives in behaving in a certain manner, currently everyone is on their toes, I do believe something should be done to reduce the paranoia, but as I mentioned before, I don't think some kind of enforced system with penalties is the way to go.

    Just a wild idea, to increase socializing and reduce hostility - what if there was a world event where you would need another crew to be in alliance with you? No loot as a reward, just some gold like in Hourglass or some piles of gold on the floor. Obviously a lot of thinking would be required to avoid exploits etc, but at least pirates keep their freedom in a way how to go about it and if they want to participate or not.

    P.S. I get what you mean about OPT in, but you must take into consideration that pirates are greedy, this is why everyone is using the emissary flags...Especially in a crew, so if could make 1million instead of 300k I would do it and if everyone is friendly then there is no more threat.

  • starbrightnight
    Castaway

    @b4njax Interesting concept. Also I wouldn't worry too much with the people shooting down the idea right away. a lot of them seem to shoot down any idea that threatens the way that they want to play so not really worth wasting time trying to change their mind.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @starbrightnight said in Parlay as a decaying reputation system:

    @b4njax Interesting concept. Also I wouldn't worry too much with the people shooting down the idea right away. a lot of them seem to shoot down any idea that threatens the way that they want to play so not really worth wasting time trying to change their mind.

    Nobody is shooting down ideas, we are having a discussion. And it's not the way we want to play, it's actually the game as is - PVPVE.

    I apologize if this is un-ethical (on a forum), but this is what you wrote in your first/one of your first posts on this forum:

    ''I look forward to the Safer Seas. I don't play much right now. I am mainly a solo player in games I like sailing but do not have any interest in pvp ever. Will forever be on safer seas! It is nice to see I can still do the missions I try to do when I do play! Thank you for list.''

    So your ironic comment, combined with this, makes me believe that you have your own ''way that YOU want to play'' and everyone who proposes an idea catered towards ''YOUR way'' which is PVE only, has a great idea and the rest of us who purchased and enjoy the product as is...are ...bad guys?

    I mean it's ok to like single player games and PVE only, but this game is not that, maybe one day they will release a single player version of this game. But trust me the charm will wear off quick (I assume), unless you are a real RPG enjoyer and a single gold hoarder mission takes you hours or something.

  • heslashthem
    Legend
    Insider

    @starbrightnight criticism is open and welcome on this forum so long as it stays respectful. Bad ideas will be picked at and good ideas will be praised, usually with upvotes. Everyone can change their mind, I’ve done so many a time here, just seems like you’ve not been around long enough to witness that. Stick around.

  • heslashthem
    Legend
    Insider

    @b4njax I still stand by what I said. You want to discourage people from being aggressive in combat so they can obtain special rewards and force them into alliances to stop the proposed decaying reputation? No. That is squashing people’s play style, fun, skill set, and the way they choose to play this game. Opt-in or not, we’re pirates, why should we be forced to play nice?

  • b4njAx
    Seafarer

    @zig-zag-ltu You have good points but I think it's a tad unrealistic to expect a flawless system for something like this to be viable.

    I will say I personally don't think it would work as well if there were actual punishments on the seas like you're suggesting. That would be more like forcing a particular playstyle, right? I would agree that it wouldn't add much incentive to you specifically given your accomplishments, not unless they increase rep level caps or remove caps altogether. Even without that, I think the roleplay opportunity from making outposts slightly safer is a fair enough incentive for plenty of people. Not all, but plenty.

    You do give me a funny idea since you bring up world events. Imagine if there was like a Happy Hour world event. That concept doesn't really work in a game with free grog everywhere. Makes me wonder what the game would be like if grog barrels were another supply to buy for a voyage. What if grog had to be paid for. What if grog gave you a small damage buff. If that was a thing then the Happy Hour event could be like a massive drunken deathmatch at a particular tavern.

    ...nah that's dumb. Fun to think about though.

    Anyways back to the discussion...

    I get what you mean about OPT in, but you must take into consideration that pirates are greedy

    I am well aware that pirates are greedy. That's obvious. Doesn't necessarily mean they're incapable of hanging out at an outpost, sharing stories, buying new cosmetics, drinking grog, etc. Especially when you take into account the roleplayers who crave such interactions.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @b4njax True, but as @Tesiccl mentioned - This is an attempt to change the fundamental rules of engagement of this game. That boat on the horizon or that white nick name at an outpost, keeps you excited and on your toes. I met a few people on my friend list just by meeting them by a random chance at an outpost, probably made more friends than had fights at an outpost. I never go there to sell if another ship is around, we fight first or I go to the next one..hell I would sail from Port Merrick to Morrows peak if I had to.

    So instead of this overcomplicated idea, what if PVP was removed from the Pirate Legend hide out? You can't bring loot there, there is nothing to fight for, only shops and npcs. Also now, your curse ceremony could be ruined by some pirate trying to shoot you. Having that place, that tavern as some sort of social haven would be the best option.

    But then again, whatever the social activity there would be, it should not be something that would leave the seas empty.

  • heslashthem
    Legend
    Insider

    @zig-zag-ltu problem you’ve got removing PvP from the hideout is it becomes a safe haven, Rare seem to be very against that, and I agree with them.

    But then again, whatever the social activity there would be, it should not be something that would leave the seas empty.

    This is a likely scenario considering the cry for PvE servers, and even with Safer Seas, there are still those who aren’t satisfied.

  • b4njAx
    Seafarer

    @tesiccl I am genuinely concerned you have no idea what "opt-in" means.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @tesiccl But safe haven from what? There is nothing to save there apart wasted time on the ferry, or wasted time if you want to purchase something and someone just keeps fighting you.

    I met pirates twice there. One was a guy with the guardian curse, 2 weeks into HG, who just bunnyhopped and completely ignored me.

    Another encounter was some failed streamer and his mate, who tried to force me to subscribe to his channel. I just wanted to browse shops and buy some DA cosmetic.
    So the whole engagement turned into 2 guys with snipers camping and not letting me to go to shops.

    Not one time PVP was needed there, or if PVP was removed the game would have been worse for anyone, including developers.

    So just curious, in your opinion, what you/the game/developers would loose if there was no PVP in the hideout?

  • heslashthem
    Legend
    Insider

    @zig-zag-ltu my choice to have a brawl with someone in the tavern if we choose to. It’s all about choice. Restrict areas/people and you restrict their freedom to play how they like. It’s that simple :)

    I won’t get into the back and forth over this as it’s a separate topic but I get where you’re coming from, I do. Just wanted to make it clear from my side too. Happy sailing pirate.

  • heslashthem
    Legend
    Insider

    @b4njax 👍

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @tesiccl Can't argue with that, but ...you avoid the fact and do not explain your reasons why would one need to fight there in the first place.

    Should Outposts have a safe zone - Hell no, loot should not be protected.

    Should people be able to bring down fort keys to reapers lair - hell no (but devs did not think of that and it happened, not sure if it is patched yet)

    Pirate legend hideout on the other hand, does not have any reasons to have combat enabled as now, apart from having freedom to do so.

    I personally would not have a problem with the PVP in the hideout if one of the following conditions were true:

    • You respawn at your ship and not at the same spot at the entrance.
      or
    • This would become ''fight club'', some sort of 'unwritten' place where pirates who want to test their metal would meet for some duels...It's always empty. This is why I don't think the pvp is necessary there.
  • HiradC
    Lord
    Insider

    This whole idea is based on the premise to stop people fighting, which isn't the purpose or design of this game.

    I'm not saying we're intended to always fight, but have the choice and the variety there.

    No thanks from me, feels like a veiled attempt to push towards pve only

Login To Reply
38
Posts
16.6k
Views
24 out of 38