Kick crew members

@tesiccl I alrdy stated that multiple times what I mean. Would be nice if I had to not spam the forum with the same information :) But, well, here we go:, to counter abuse make it so:

• Captain can kick players within the first 10 mins of joining,
• Captain can kick players who are brigged
• Captain CAN NOT kick players who are in the crew for more then 10 minutes, UNLESS:
  They are brigged or they show behaviour of sabotage, eg.: Damaging the ship multiple times, hurting teammates multiple times, using powder keg on own ship.

As stated multiple times, my suggestins are no final thought, but a process. They could very well be elaborated on. But I think any suggestion or Idea is better then none at all.

I would like you to elaborate on your statements, because U keep painting this demon of "abuse" on the horizon, thats your argument basically, but you fail to specify how exactly the feature could abused.
Even more though: If you can specify the areas of possible abuse of a kicking system - then you can also find solutions to circumvent those. Thats what I tried to do with my thoughts.
I guess my point to your argument of abuse is, in the end:
Possible Abuse issues with a certain feature are no argument to deny that feature, but rather an incentive to elaborate on that certain feature to make it better.

@parrotlord6426 said in Kick crew members:

@goldsmen

• "is not a game mode", but a recruting method - agree, but I believe you know what i meant, no need for word games ;)
  Using discord instead of that recruitment method is simply that - another method. Does not help the method of open queue in any way though. Ofc its a viable solution - but thats not the point at hand.
• "So i would say that is proof enough" - a single example is not a proof of any sorts. Its an example, among others, nothing more, nothing less.
  I believe you didnt read into my suggestion entirelly. I do not approve of making the job easier for abuse of any kind, nor do I believe me suggestions enable that. If so, my suggestion could be altered/debated upon, but its still better then not having a suggestion at all.

An example that has been actively preformed is proof. Considering its not a 1 time thing that has happened, i would say that is sufficient enough proof that people will abuse such a system.

Rather than a kick system, i would prefer if open crew had a recruiting chat in the main menu to specify what you are looking for and to get an idea who is at least like minded, but that wont totally solve trolls, just would make it a bit easier to find people who want to do what you want. A kick option is too easily abused, and people do abuse kick mechanics in games where you can vote to kick. I would know, i have been on the back end of it many times, and one of the times on tf2 the people who kicked me flat out said they wanted to invite another friend. Its not a sot specific issue, its a player controlled kick issue.

@goldsmen Well, there is also proof that people abuse the current open queue method. What is your point exactly.
And what is your suggestion then. Ignoring the recruitment method, or switching to other methods is not a solution, as stated multiple times, but a surrender to trolls and current abuse.
I agree a kick feature could be abused, but abuse is happening right now too. and i still fail to see how it could not be just implemented properly to counter abuse.
I agree a chat feature could be one way. This idea sounds good to me too.

@parrotlord6426 said in Kick crew members:

@goldsmen Well, there is also proof that people abuse the current open queue method. What is your point exactly.
And what is your suggestion then. Ignoring the recruitment method, or switching to other methods is not a solution, as stated multiple times, but a surrender to trolls and current abuse.
I agree a kick feature could be abused, but abuse is happening right now too. and i still fail to see how it could not be just implemented properly to counter abuse.
I agree a chat feature could be one way. This idea sounds good to me too.

My point is that providing something that can be abused with more effective results than what we have now is simply not something i will ever support. Trolls can be banned, but if people have the right to kick people out of their ship for literally any reason they choose, that would be a form of toxicity that would be from then on, supported and not bannable.

Switching to other methods is a temporary solution until something better is made, and as your response continues to note, i did not ignore the current method, i proposed an overhaul that would help in some way.

@parrotlord6426

Multiple examples have been given across other players, hence why I’ve not been repeating them but since you asked:

From @Foambreaker

Sail a few hours
Collect tons of loot
Kick the crew
Invite friends
Sell loot

From @Goldsmen

As for disagreeing that it isn’t highly abusable, i have seen people brig some one after they put down a gilded voyage in an attempt to force them to leave for a friend to take their slot, making that job easier for those who do so is not a good thing.

Your timer solution may bandage the problem but the core issue is the players at heart who just want to join a ship to cause chaos. Personally, I feel if players of the same crew aren’t able to throw fire bombs/blunder bombs at their own crew mates, this would help solve the toxicity. There’s another thread on the forum about why players cant attack each other who are part of the same crew, this issue relates to the one we’re talking about now. The issue isn’t the lack of ability to kick, but the behaviour of the players, and that’s something that Rare can’t change unless they limit certain abilities within the crew, like what I suggested earlier.

@goldsmen sagte in Kick crew members:

My point is that providing something that can be abused with more effective results than what we have now is simply not something i will ever support. Trolls can be banned, but if people have the right to kick people out of their ship for literally any reason they choose, that would be a form of toxicity that would be from then on, supported and not bannable.

Switching to other methods is a temporary solution until something better is made, and as your response continues to note, i did not ignore the current method, i proposed an overhaul that would help in some way.

You keep claiming solutions would provide even bigger abuse but I honestly fail to see that. And you also fail to state any proof or arguments for your claim. Would be nice to read actual arguments as to why you think a proper kicking feature (as suggested by me eg.) would open the doors for bigger abuse.
I am not talking about any "right to kick people for any reason they choose". But, again, problems of abuse are not an argument against the feature, but an incentive to implement it properly.

You also ignore simple solutions people suggested to counter possible abuse.
Do you only want to say "no" to anything that tackles status quo?

@tesiccl sagte in Kick crew members:

There’s another thread on the forum about why players cant attack each other who are part of the same crew, this issue relates to the one we’re talking about now. The issue isn’t the lack of ability to kick, but the behaviour of the players, and that’s something that Rare can’t change unless they limit certain abilities within the crew, like what I suggested earlier.

The issue is player behaviour, bravo Sherlock ;).
No offense mate, but ofc thats the issue. How is pointing out the obvious helping here.
The problem is, what can be done about bad player behaviour other then simply nothing.
because the current methods (report feature) are not helping obviously.
Friendly fire alrdy is disabled, but friendly ship damage is probably needed for balancing issues in fights. And I can totally understand that. Ofc blunder and fire bombs are excluded from friendly fire, but, again, I would think this is needed for balancing ship fights, as these tools would be to powerful otherwise. The bombs got to have some negative aspects to them for Deck battles.
But yes, this would be a solution maybe, but then again, not really, because it tackles a lot of other points, and also powder kegs are still a thing to sabotage.
Also, did I really take the effort of putting my suggestions down for you (again) to digest nice and easy, just for you to ignore my arguments entirelly (again)? No comment...

@parrotlord6426 said in Kick crew members:

@goldsmen sagte in Kick crew members:

My point is that providing something that can be abused with more effective results than what we have now is simply not something i will ever support. Trolls can be banned, but if people have the right to kick people out of their ship for literally any reason they choose, that would be a form of toxicity that would be from then on, supported and not bannable.

Switching to other methods is a temporary solution until something better is made, and as your response continues to note, i did not ignore the current method, i proposed an overhaul that would help in some way.

You keep claiming solutions would provide even bigger abuse but I honestly fail to see that. And you also fail to state any proof or arguments for your claim. Would be nice to read actual arguments as to why you think a proper kicking feature (as suggested by me eg.) would open the doors for bigger abuse.
I am not talking about any "right to kick people for any reason they choose". But, again, problems of abuse are not an argument against the feature, but an incentive to implement it properly.

You also ignore simple solutions people suggested to counter possible abuse.
Do you only want to say "no" to anything that tackles status quo?

I do believe i am done here as i did provide proof for my claim with examples that have actually happened. Im not sure what more could constitute proof than actual attempts at precisely what i am claiming would happen.

@goldsmen Well, you claim that you did, but I fail to see that. Go be done if you think you are. I see just random claims without any backup, but with an astonishing ability to ignore all that contradicts you.
You do see your examples could easyly be adressed by implementing the kick feature properly?

@parrotlord6426

We may very well agree to disagree on what solution may fix all the problems, but be aware, i have read what's been said in every comment on this thread and you've been given examples by other forum members why a flat out kick button isn't a good solution. I'm at the stage where i don't want to repeat what others have said when you know they have replied and responded to them separately. I'm gonna raise anchor and move on from the topic. Your ideas are valid, i just don't agree with them. Safe sailing!

@parrotlord6426 said in Kick crew members:

@goldsmen Well, you claim that you did, but I fail to see that. Go be done if you think you are. I see just random claims without any backup, but with an astonishing ability to ignore all that contradicts you.
You do see your examples could easyly be adressed by implementing the kick feature properly?

If you wish for any further debate while asking for proof you should clarify what you want as proof, i am done actually debating because actual genuine situations that have happened dont seem to fit your expectations, so for all who do wish to debate you, it may be good to clarify what you want for proof rather than just vaguely asking for "proof", in order to get provided with what you are asking for.

@goldsmen Its a forum right? Forum means - Debate, right?
I wanna debate. You claim a kick feature openens up for abuse, because people might kick other people out of bad intentions. To that I say: There are ways to counter that. Like i posted:

Captain can kick players within the first 10 mins of joining,
Captain can kick players who are brigged
Captain CAN NOT kick players who are in the crew for more then 10 minutes, UNLESS: They are brigged or They show behaviour of sabotage, eg.: Damaging the ship multiple times, hurting teammates multiple times, using powder keg on own ship

I think this easy solution would fix most of the abuse. Dont you think so? I want to be contradicted, if you can.
But nor you, neither @Tesiccl have ever answered to that. Instead both of you just keep on repeating the "there is abuse" claim to the "kick" feature solution, without any backup. So, Taking my points into consideration, I want you to state actual arguments, actual points that strenghen your claim and/or contradict mine.

You just dont want a kick feature, is that it? No matter how it is implemented, you just dont like the idea at its core. I can understand that. But still, I have yet to read a better solution

@foambreaker I wouldn’t engage honestly, they’re not worth the effort.

@foambreaker sagte in Kick crew members:

@parrotlord6426 How many people have to tell you it is a terrible idea?

Mind elaborating why it is a bad idea? Its not imo. Its a very good idea. And I have not read a single argument that speaks against it and holds up in a debate. Not from you either lol.
All you can do is "no", without any basis. But dont worry, you are in good company here in SoT, as the mayority of active forum users are forever No guys. apparently

imo, the reason the captain should be able to have the kicking powers over other crewmates is not bc they spent 100k to get the ship, its bc they are the ones who have to pay the money to repair the ship if it breaks to griefing (like cannon rowboats or island cannons). even if you leave, you still have to pay to fix it next session.

@foambreaker Well, its a forum, forum means debate. Would certainly help your claim if you did ;)

@foambreaker I dont mind your opinion. Its nothing more after all, sadly. i would have liked actual arguments for that standpoint.
Thats what a forum is for btw., we are not customers here, but individuals speculating about what would be beneficial for the game. but nm, you do yours man

@typicalink500 @sSs-Zan I wanna add to that: While the report feature is a thing that exists, it does not help in the situation itself. You can report (which is hardly convenient to do, but thats another topic), but that does still leave you with the frustration of having to surrender your session, with all the loot, to a troll.
I guess what I want to say: The Report feature alone is not suited to handle the job.

@foambreaker said in Kick crew members:

@parrotlord6426 said in Kick crew members:

@foambreaker I dont mind your opinion. Its nothing more after all, sadly. i would have liked actual arguments for that standpoint.
Thats what a forum is for btw., we are not customers here, but individuals speculating about what would be beneficial for the game. but nm, you do yours man

Forums are not exclusively for debate. In fact posting many times and refusing to let others have their opinion is rude IMHO.

we are letting you have your opinion. we are just curious as to why you think kicking is a bad idea. i respect that u got ur own opinion but if we want the game to improve we have to talk about why or why not it is bad, otherwise we just get stuck in a loop of one person saying yes and the other saying no.

I play solo so I don't care.

However. If we're playing together and I'm captain and a Shrouded Ghost shows up, you're getting kicked so I can add my kid.

Blah blah blah "sPeCiFiC sItUaTiOnS"... but tell me you wouldn't be a teensy bit angry about it.

@foambreaker sagte in Kick crew members:

@parrotlord6426 How many people have to tell you it is a terrible idea?

In fact posting many times and refusing to let others have their opinion is rude IMHO.

In fact, devaluating other peoples opinions, just because you dont like it, is whats really rude.

Additionally, did I devaluate/refuse to let you have YOUR opinion? No, quite the opposite: I even asked for you to elaborate, because I was hoping for some deeper thoughts than "just because".
.

@riptide3683 sagte in Kick crew members:

We letting you have your opinion. we are just curious as to why you think kicking is a bad idea. i respect that u got ur own opinion but if we want the game to improve we have to talk about why or why not it is bad, otherwise we just get stuck in a loop of one person saying yes and the other saying no.

Thats exactly my line of thought too.
.

@pithyrumble sagte in Kick crew members:

I play solo so I don't care.

However. If we're playing together and I'm captain and a Shrouded Ghost shows up, you're getting kicked so I can add my kid.

Blah blah blah "sPeCiFiC sItUaTiOnS"... but tell me you wouldn't be a teensy bit angry about it.

That is the one argument everyone has against the Kick feature, but a kick feature could very easily be implemented so this kind of abuse is not possible, like I stated alrdy multiple times