Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.

@lormiun said in Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.:

SOLUTIONS:
Either DRASTICALLY reduce the buy-cooldown-time for the merchants- and the captains-supplies to whatever the current Island-Barrel-Reset ist
(Because at the moment I estimate it at at AT LEAST 1 and a half h, if not more, and that is just too long if you want to go that easy route)
OR (The solution I would recommend)
Make these cooldowns IMMEDIATELY reset AS SOON as you dive down every time! (And maybe to keep it fair as a defender, as soon as you get invaded every time).

I think the answer is the opposite: immediately reset the cooldown as soon as you sink. That is much less exploitable.

Also, I understand the podcasts are long and can sometimes be boring, I struggle to listen to them myself. But something said in the last one really struck a chord with me.

They were talking about the effects of the WE balance changes on pirate participation and how the developers play the game in their off time. I just sometimes feel like we're playing the game wrong, you know? Especially pirates here on the forums, who are either lauding or cursing hourglass and swearing off ever touching it or proudly stating they pretty much HG exclusively.

The developers talk about winning an hourglass match, and deciding whether they want to go contest that world event or not. These things are not designed to be mutually exclusive and yet the player base seems to deviate toward one end or the other. I do believe the silent majority are us PVEVP'ers who just like sailing, adventuring, fighting, a little bit of everything. But as I said in another thread, it is incredibly difficult to find pirates on the Discord that want to participate in hourglass defensively to get that little bit of everything.

I think the "real" issue with port resources are the fact that pirates look at buying a supply create and looting a sea fort as "unnecessary work" as opposed to "part of the adventure." I understand that pirates that like HGPVP just want to play submarine (dive, dive, dive!), but that's not the game the developers intend or are making. So on that note, perhaps the supply situation is exactly as is intended.

The challenge is although this would be "incredibly healthy" for hourglass the effects on adventure mode could be devastating, where the influx of fast/cheap/easy supplies throws off the balance of server investment (playing on a server for an hour). Watch the podcasts and the documentary, server investment is the intended playstyle. I have to believe the developers play the game "as intended," which may not be the way we prefer. Again, supplies may be right where they're supposed to be...

I agree, although I do not sink often when playing with a main crew compared to a mix & match crew where we can barely hit a 4 streak going up against competitive teams in Gally HG.

The obvious big downside is the time that it takes to get back into action from the moment of sinking, takes around 15 mins, and that's if the outpost hasn't already been looted + Supps bought from the shipwright.
My concern isn't really the outpost supps itself more so then the fact that the galleon has weak starting supplies from the get go.
90 cannonballs is essentially two volleys of cannons shot from each player. (20 cannonballs shot each) when in high MMR fights these are just the ''appetizer'' for a starting broadside.

@zig-zag-ltu But what happens when the bubble drops?

I like the idea that when you vote up hourglass you gain supplies and when you vote it down you lose supplies, and that may encourage voting up hourglass and sailing around in adventure mode, a.k.a. defending, but in my experience voting up hourglass isn't a guarantee you'll get invaded. Now you're just in adventure mode with great sups. And let's say they add locked barrels that you can only remove sups from during a match. Well I'll just empty them into my storage crate so if I win I now have all the sups in adventure mode, where I will vote down the HG after one win, vote it up again, reset my sups, and now have twice as many!

Thus the challenges of putting arena in adventure mode play out...

@zig-zag-ltu The challenge is defending and invading are polar opposite playstyles. More often then not, when I invade a defending crew, my crew decides to leave the loot and dive again. That's a problem with "PVP on demand": the PVP is in higher demand than the rewards. I wish there were a good way to make the invaders care about the loot, but if you gained allegiance for turning it in without voting down the hourglass people would just scream "yOu'Re ReWaRdInG PVE!!!"

Hourglass was a huge success technologically. Rare could Retire code and assets (assuming they don't use it later), reducing package size. They had pirates who left the game when arena retired return. They successfully integrated PVP on demand into adventure mode. But the main challenge still exists in that the two play styles are so vastly different I'm not confident there is a good way to have the two interact in a shared world sandbox. Perhaps them simply existing in the same space has to be close enough?

@lordqulex said in Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.:

@lormiun said in Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.:

SOLUTIONS:
Either DRASTICALLY reduce the buy-cooldown-time for the merchants- and the captains-supplies to whatever the current Island-Barrel-Reset ist
(Because at the moment I estimate it at at AT LEAST 1 and a half h, if not more, and that is just too long if you want to go that easy route)
OR (The solution I would recommend)
Make these cooldowns IMMEDIATELY reset AS SOON as you dive down every time! (And maybe to keep it fair as a defender, as soon as you get invaded every time).

I think the answer is the opposite: immediately reset the cooldown as soon as you sink. That is much less exploitable.

This is a really good idea IMHO.

@maximusarael020 said in Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.:

I disagree with that there should be set supplies for HG because HG is not a separate mode, it exists inside of Adventure. Stocking your ship well is an investment in your ship's future and is a tactical decision. If Rare had wanted HG to be a true 1 ship v 1 ship battle looking at only skill, they would have:

1. Had it be in a separate server with no PvE elements (megs, skeleton ships, storms, kraken, etc). All of those things can skew the result of the battle, making it not a true test of pure skill between crews.
2. Not allowed 3rd party ships in the zone. Because that involves a secondary variable that makes it not a true test of skill either. And now, if you had set supplies, how does that factor in to there being another ship to contend with?
3. Had a much more robust SBMM system. Because for people truly looking for a 1 crew v 1 crew test of pure skill, getting matched with people who far outclass you just because you happen to be on the same Stamp or to reduce wait time wouldn't happen.

Very good observations and good points... agreed.

I think the mentality that you should just be able to dive, fight, dive, fight, dive, fight, over and over again just isn't really what the mode is supposed to be. There's a reason it takes place in Adventure and a reason there are Defenders and not just Divers.

Like I said above, I think many of us pirates are not playing HG as intended and it saddens and confuses me...

You have to play in the world, too (OMG nooooooooooo)!

🤣🤣🤣💖

@grumpyw01f said in Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.:

If losing is such a harsh time loss for hourglass, why don't you just hop servers? You just sunk, so you don't lose anything. The supply-buying is reset and you only have to sit through a couple minutes of loading screens.

This SHOULD work right?!
Scuttle and change seas.

Somehow it DOESN'T!
Don't ask me why.
It seems to be simply built-in.

@gosva5434 said in Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.:

@burnbacon
Honestly you just made a git gud comment that doesn't offer anything to this post. If you are fighting any decent crew resources are vital. You are telling me that you can win eating bananas while the other person is eating pineapples ? Or that not having a cannonball or storage crate on galleon resulting to having to go downstairs to grab everything isn't a disadvantage? You literally admitted to loss farming the other day in one of my posts so I don't know where this is coming from...

Amen.

@lordqulex said in Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.:

Also, I understand the podcasts are long and can sometimes be boring, I struggle to listen to them myself. But something said in the last one really struck a chord with me.

They were talking about the effects of the WE balance changes on pirate participation and how the developers play the game in their off time. I just sometimes feel like we're playing the game wrong, you know? Especially pirates here on the forums, who are either lauding or cursing hourglass and swearing off ever touching it or proudly stating they pretty much HG exclusively.

The developers talk about winning an hourglass match, and deciding whether they want to go contest that world event or not. These things are not designed to be mutually exclusive and yet the player base seems to deviate toward one end or the other. I do believe the silent majority are us PVEVP'ers who just like sailing, adventuring, fighting, a little bit of everything. But as I said in another thread, it is incredibly difficult to find pirates on the Discord that want to participate in hourglass defensively to get that little bit of everything.

I think the "real" issue with port resources are the fact that pirates look at buying a supply create and looting a sea fort as "unnecessary work" as opposed to "part of the adventure." I understand that pirates that like HGPVP just want to play submarine (dive, dive, dive!), but that's not the game the developers intend or are making. So on that note, perhaps the supply situation is exactly as is intended.

The challenge is although this would be "incredibly healthy" for hourglass the effects on adventure mode could be devastating, where the influx of fast/cheap/easy supplies throws off the balance of server investment (playing on a server for an hour). Watch the podcasts and the documentary, server investment is the intended playstyle. I have to believe the developers play the game "as intended," which may not be the way we prefer. Again, supplies may be right where they're supposed to be...

Long story short:
You should go to the fort to stack up first. That is BS for one very specific reason though and I highly doubt that this is the intended desing therefore.
Simply because:

You loose all pure loot as soon as you dive and defending nets WAY too little HG-XP/hour to be viable to really level HG

IF you could keep your loot while you dive then this would be a 100% different story (which would ofc create other problems though).
But having to sell every time before diving or loosing out ... no thanks.

...
HOWEVER:
@lordqulex said in Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.:

I think the answer is the opposite: immediately reset the cooldown as soon as you sink. That is much less exploitable.

Totally fine with that, my idea was merely supposed to make it even more accessible and motivating to do HG.
Wouldn't see it as exploitable BUT hey!
I will not deny that this is really unimportant to the greater issue at hand here, so whatever.

Put simply:
100% in favor of this. A very simple and effective solution with no downsides whatsoever.

Rare. PLEASE make it so.
So that when we sink from HG. We can buy again.

@lormiun said in Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.:

Long story short:
You should go to the fort to stack up first. That is BS for one very specific reason though and I highly doubt that this is the intended desing [sic] therefore.
Simply because:

You loose all pure loot as soon as you dive and defending nets WAY too little HG-XP/hour to be viable to really level HG

IF you could keep your loot while you dive then this would be a 100% different story (which would ofc create other problems though).
But having to sell every time before diving or loosing out ... no thanks.

That is sadly the point I am making. If you watch the documentary and podcasts, they talk about diving, attacking, defending, all in hours long play sessions. Again, assuming the developers play the game as it is intended to be played, the bonus for faction treasury defense is intended to be enough to keep you in a server for at least a bit.

But remember, they love to talk about the journey and the adventure. When you say things like "way too little HG-EXP/hour" you cease talking about the journey/adventure and start venturing into power-gamer territory. Allegiance efficiency is not the intended play style. Long-session fun adventures are the intended play style.

So again, you, me, everyone on this forum who complains about allegiance efficiency, long grinds, rewards, et cetera, we're all missing the point. The intended play style is just to enjoy playing the game. The long con. The curses tell the story of your journey, they're not intended to be the goal. Level 1000 is not intended to be the goal. Collecting treasure, sinking ships, turning in loot, getting sunk, all in one night is the intended play style.

This may be a disconnect between the developers and the community, but we need to remember we're playing their game. We can make suggestions that would make the game better for us, but it's still very much their shared world pirate adventure sandbox, their game. And apparently I've been playing it "wrong."

Rare. PLEASE make it so.
So that when we sink from HG. We can buy again.

Sadly, "dive, dive, dive!" is not the intended play style. Good luck matie, I don't believe you'll be seeing this.

@lordqulex I don't think Rare is that kind of Dev.
I really don't.

Do not mistake me for a fanboy but they made so many good changes.
I do not see them as the classic devs, separated from their community.

Therefore I keep the hope and don't think it is that far off to ask.

@burnbacon
Just use your starting resources. You be surprised it enough to sink any ship. IF you know what your doing and aim.

I would really like to see you pulling this off against a competitive crew in Galleon hourglass.
Make sure to post the link of the video. Im waiting...

OR at the very least admit it to yourself that you don't know what you are talking about.

@gosva5434 said in Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.:

@lormiun
I have seen this person comment similiar things in many other posts. Usually i wouldn't bother but honestly this was too much to not say something.

If you are referring to me thinking relatively high of Rare, then yes.
I said that on other posts. Is that a problem XD ?

@gosva5434 said in Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.:

@lormiun
no i was talking about the person that made the git gud comment (saying that if you know how to aim basic supplies are fine).

Ahhh, I am relieved 😅
You mean our dear burnbacon ... yeah ... most of his posts are rather ... ... ... unproductive

@grumpyw01f said in Hour Glass. REAL Issue with the port resources.:

@lormiun
I meant, hit "Leave game" and get a new server from the title screen. Sorry for the confusion.

Scuttle and change seas is functionally the same as losing in HG.

Granted, that is be the best way to handle it right now. (And I cannot deny that this is sometimes something I have also done already)
Still it would be MUCH preferred if we would not have to do that in the first place.
Because that method costs us our inventories, and there is still a very real risk of ending up on the same server.

So why not simply grant this function to an HG-sink as well.
It would make life, just quite a bit easier.