Streamer Server Hopping

There is a lot of hypocrisy and entitlement within the design of streaming and the rules around it but that's just a reality of the environment within gaming now.

Server hopping isn't the issue it's that they enabled specific server hopping with a no effort requirement for supplies/power (chainshots)

Streamers are gonna often cheese just like many players in this game do, that's just going to happen. Going to extremes to target it only punishes those that aren't cheesing and the ones that are ALWAYS find workarounds

Best thing you can do as an individual is to not support content that you don't condone and to not contribute to the behavior/gameplay you disagree with. Support content that is considerate of the environment that it is created in.

Something that happens a lot in this game specifically is that people support content that includes gameplay/behavior that they themselves very much don't enjoy when they are the ones subjected to it. Most of these pvp channels are fueled by the very pvers that are paying the price for the content in game lol. Pvp is the minority, it's all possible because of all the pvers that not only watch/support it but volunteer their time to do the hopping/gathering/lurking servers.

Coordinated anything really only is an issue at the extreme levels (which there is plenty of). People hopping a few servers, longer tucc plays, a few fights a day/night aren't causing an issue. It's more of a content creation issue than a streaming issue and only at the more extreme levels of coordination.

No one wants to watch someone server hop for ages for a FoTD so I think it's justified purely because it provide entertainment.

I don't understand the problem that people have with streamers taking servers from their community, it makes them more exciting to watch.

Sure, they get an advantage in that they get their FoF commendations faster but who cares?

@bummsfalleralel said in Streamer Server Hopping:

I don't understand the problem that people have with streamers taking servers from their community, it makes them more exciting to watch.

Sure, they get an advantage in that they get their FoF commendations faster but who cares?

It's less about streaming and more about the cheesing through coordination which has repeatedly lead to unsustainable hunting in a risk/reward environment.

Coordinated hopping pvp is the invasive species in server ecosystems. The population size isn't big enough and the organic play interest isn't significant enough to hold off coordinated hopping by people that play extreme amounts of time in a specific play style that is interfering in these ecosystems without contributing to production.

The only thing that makes streamers relevant to this are the resources they have because of popularity which allows the playstyle to do more damage.

This has had obvious negative results on the organic environment for years which is why I have been talking about it for years here.

Season 8 and especially season 9 are literally designed around trying to take off some pressure that they allowed to increase and increase over the last few years through their decisions.

The success that parts of season 8 had and the success of participation increase of season 9 is entirely based on making the game less unpleasant for those that have been the most negatively impacted by coordinated and extreme server hopping pvp.

This isn't on the players tho and shouldn't be controlled through rules, it was on the devs to not feed into quick action supply without production contribution to maintain some sort of risk/reward that makes sense. Those that invest in servers/pve should have all of the in game power (supplies,chainshots,etc), that's how actual risk/reward works in this scenario. Then, even streamer's hoppers have to invest to load those boats with supplies.

It sucks big time. No doubt. All I can do is NOT support server hopping streamers. Nothing drives me crazy more than streamers whose ONLY goal is to ruin the enjoyment of others instead of playing their OWN session. I've dropped plenty of streamers due to that issue.

@captain-coel We are going to disagree here. Time in game and consent aren't the problems. I don't consider server hoping a "legitimate play style" at all. It exists. It isn't going away. I get that. I server hop so to get the outpost I want (for screen grabs). But server hopping to ONLY find others who are trying to enjoy their sessions - who have spent, let's assume an hour - of their time trying to earn their Athenas Chest or whatever, only to be server hopped and have it stolen doesn't sit well for me. Its life. Like I said I get that. Doesn't mean I have to like it or endorse it.

@rikjaxx said in Streamer Server Hopping:

It sucks big time. No doubt. All I can do is NOT support server hopping streamers. Nothing drives me crazy more than streamers whose ONLY goal is to ruin the enjoyment of others instead of playing their OWN session. I've dropped plenty of streamers due to that issue.

There is a significant difference in effect between server hopping for something and highly coordinated pvp cheese operations

a lot of server hopping that people do is sustainable

solo pvp
casual pvp hopping
investment hopping, this is hopping for stealth opportunities for example
people portal hopping around as a reaper (for the most part)

unsustainable hopping as an act is the highly coordinated stuff, people having boats and scenarios completely prepared for mass daily interference in servers. Especially people in the larger crews.

If you're against it completely that is your freedom but only a portion of the hopping channels are going to be involved in the effect that is unsustainable.

Skill level plays a large part too, crews that lose a considerable amount but hop a lot aren't creating a damaging effect.

@wolfmanbush I never spoke in absolutes but I did mention only one example - hopping servers ONLY to ruin other player sessions. Clearly you see the difference between adding flexibility to the game vs exploiting for the benefit of only the streamer. I know the difference as well, but shouldn't need to explain that much detail. Other people see it as a right of entitlement.

I love SoT. I've spent many hours playing this game. So, I appreciate that it exists. But I will always have a fundamental issue with every open sandbox game that is vulnerable to META tactics. A sandbox game does not allow equal weight for all players to decide how they want to play. The final outcome is always determined by the PvP aggressor. Always. The choices of a PvP aggressor always supersede the choice of a PvE player. And it is always the PvE player who is expected to suck it up.

Pure PvP games don't have this issue. Pure PvE games don't have this issue.

I had the same issue with EVE Online....the best (and worse) game I've ever played.

Even with all that baggage, I'd rather play in a PvPvE sandbox than a pure PvP or PvE game.

@captain-coel I was not talking about "maybes". Going down the maybe path is a literal rabbit hole of speculation. I was talking specifically about stream hoppers whose only goal is to screw up another players session (instead of taking the time to create their own session).

@knurd9369 Sorry but it absolutely exists. I've seen it on a few streams myself. But I never implied every streamer is guilty of this maliciousness, as you put it. I won't even get started on my opinions on the 'everything is fair game in order to "create content" debate'.

@rikjaxx said in Streamer Server Hopping:

@wolfmanbush I never spoke in absolutes but I did mention only one example - hopping servers ONLY to ruin other player sessions. Clearly you see the difference between adding flexibility to the game vs exploiting for the benefit of only the streamer. I know the difference as well, but shouldn't need to explain that much detail. Other people see it as a right of entitlement.

I love SoT. I've spent many hours playing this game. So, I appreciate that it exists. But I will always have a fundamental issue with every open sandbox game that is vulnerable to META tactics. A sandbox game does not allow equal weight for all players to decide how they want to play. The final outcome is always determined by the PvP aggressor. Always. The choices of a PvP aggressor always supersede the choice of a PvE player. And it is always the PvE player who is expected to suck it up.

Pure PvP games don't have this issue. Pure PvE games don't have this issue.

I had the same issue with EVE Online....the best (and worse) game I've ever played.

Even with all that baggage, I'd rather play in a PvPvE sandbox than a pure PvP or PvE game.

A lot of sot content is heavily self serving and imo often inconsiderate of others on the seas as far as personal conduct goes but that doesn't make it malicious gameplay that's more of the social bubble that a channel heavily based on a personality creates.

They generally aren't targeting people that are targeting random engagement in situations that they think may benefit what they are doing.

I dunno what circles you run in but the channels/content I am aware of/ familiar with generally aren't "out to ruin someone's experience" it's just the typical stealing,sinking, whatever that goes on in this game.

@knurd9369 Read the entire above discourse. It's all there.

@zeyrniyx said in Streamer Server Hopping:

Sea of Thieves, this magnificent pirate adventure game has become the game of "disconnect, connect, disconnect etc..."
Even without realising it, streamers are misrepresenting what Sea of Thieves is all about. But as there is a community behind each streamer, as they have participated in the visibility of the game, so we close our eyes... But what hypocrisy!

It's not really misrepresenting it's just representing a common part of it

People could create adventure content if they wanted

It would require avoiding the networking and doing their own thing
focusing on the passion for the game and adventure rather than views/subs/growth/partner this partner that

Plenty of interesting people out there that play the game a lot, there is opportunity there for people to tell their stories.

Nothing wrong with doing something just out of the love for it, doesn't need to become a business or what everyone else is doing.

@nex-stargaze said in Streamer Server Hopping:

@wolfmanbush said in Streamer Server Hopping:

Plenty of interesting people out there that play the game a lot, there is opportunity there for people to tell their stories.

Excuse my usually pessimistic mindset here, but nothing about any of us non-successful content creators is remotely interesting.

We sail, we kill skeletons, we get loot, we might kill pirates, we get money, we keep doing the same things over and over and over again until we get eaten by the bigger fish in the pond, get bored/frustrated with the game, and log off for day.

The average game loop for a player in this game is absolutely terrible for a streaming platform. No one cares, and the few people that do, aren't going to keep much interest, or put food on the dinner table. Sea of Thieves is a very streamable game, but it requires an actually attractive personality, which I don't think a lot of us genuinely have (or have the ability to consistently upkeep). It's very evident not only by the content creators you watch, but the ones I watch as well. An authentic player interaction with randoms is awkward, a complete time killer, or ultimately means nothing when everyone dies/doesn't get to do what they set out to do and leaves.

nothing about any of us non-successful content creators is remotely interesting.

I don't get that take at all. Nearly every random interesting person I've met in this game that made me laugh or smile or lead me to being fascinated about something wasn't a successful content creator.

Anyone unique is interesting to some degree and there are plenty of unique people that play this game outside of being a popular personality

@nex-stargaze said in Streamer Server Hopping:

@wolfmanbush said in Streamer Server Hopping:

Anyone unique is interesting to some degree and there are plenty of unique people that play this game outside of being a popular personality

My view is that the people I meet either lack a personality (or vice versa), are doing something not of my interest, or are instantly hostile because I exist as target practice to them. I can find more people to interact with outside of the game than inside of it, where I'm a wannabe bookworm that has pessimistic realism towards just about every single action a player is going to commit to in this game.

If you don't have a personality (or a metric ton of skill to compensate) in this game, your name on the seas is worth nothing.

I don't get trying to keep people down with the illusion of status

Take a step outside of the sot bubble and sot status is irrelevant

It's not about some social hierarchy that people think has some sort of universal substance. Adventure is for all, if people want to share it with others they should go for it and ignore opinions that suggest they aren't interesting enough or that their name isn't going anywhere.

btw people in sot streaming don't fail because they aren't interesting, they fail because they entirely focus on numbers and comparing to others and trying to do what others do and setting unrealistic expectations and they give up. There is no failure in passion for adventure and being true to oneself. Even 1 person that shows up every stream to visit and support someone is a beautiful thing.

@iceman-d18 said in Streamer Server Hopping:

My opinion is that it doesn't really impact me as you have no way to tell if the crews you face are server hoppers, someone who's been on the server for hours or someone who's just loaded up the game so just let them crack on. If them showing the exciting parts of the game brings in more players - then I'm all for that as the more players, the longer the game will be supported

It's not difficult for an experienced player to tell a hopper.

and streaming does very little for organic participation and production, they pushed sottv during season 7 which was the lowest organic participation/production in most of sot's history.

Sot streaming creates community cliques not participation.

Sot streaming has huge overlap in viewership between these cliques and drops are used to manufacture viewership that doesn't have a strong foundation in interest. People afk/mute get their drop and leave, it's always been that way, partner drops just mess with smaller channels to make it look like there is interest that there isn't.

The only 2 things that have shown actual increases in substantive server participation are improving quality of life for those that produce and big deal stuff like PotC which creates new interest.

Variety streamers that come in and bring new eyes have potential to create a little new interest but the bubble of sot streaming does very little for new interest. It's cliquey and isn't something that does much for actual growth.

It makes sense for Rare to be involved because it's cheap marketing and they control the supply of things like drops and giveaways but it's one of the weaker growth strategies as far as results go.

The effects of the streaming environment have driven out significant amounts of interest in this game (from a organic environment perspective) because of the focus on creating "exciting" and quick action content. Which is why season 9 and parts of season 8 were specifically created to bandaid those effects and try to get people to participate again, organically speaking.

What was the main issue with hourglass? Hourglass being the big partner/streamer pvp update, it was lack of interest/lack of participation, that's been the issue with HG since day 1.

What was the success of season 8? More fotds popping up, why? not because streamers got them to play but because content creators/pvpers were distracted with hg. They played more because they were encountering content creating pvp less.