Balancing Server Experiences

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    Alright, unpopular opinion but one I think needs to be stated and probably has been before but I am new to the forums so wouldn't mind hearing the discussion on this if it is a supported or hated idea. Maybe a healthy mix of both.
    I'd like to see servers balance to player skill levels. I have about 200 hours into the game so I know I am a hopeless scrub who should just "git gud" but I have no desire to attempt world events or risk a lot of pvp encounters due to how wide the skill gap is between myself and some players with over 2,000 hours in the game. Recently had four friends get the game and I have been trying to introduce them into the world but I know it will only take one crushing defeat by a toxic group that never stops playing to probably put these four new accounts on the refund wait list.
    I know a lot of the more experienced players will say that everyone should just try to learn as they lose but it is hard to learn anything when your waiting on the ferry after 5 seconds of combat and your ship is sunk before you respawn. Sure you might learn something but not enough to make you WANT to continue learning the more detailed parts of pvp. Also, know there will be the players who have fun crushing new players and laughing at how superior they are at a video game. If you are so superior then you should have no trouble fighting on servers with players of that skill level.
    So, just imagining it is set on the skill of the players based on their pvp statistics. If you have 100+ kills you would be bracket to servers around that range. You fight against other crews in battles that feel more epic and teeth clenching. Newer crews fight in battles that last more then 10 seconds and can slowly or rapidly based on how fast they learn get the experience they need to get in on these high intensity battles. Seems to me like this would be something players would want. No more running ships that know they can't win and no more new players refunding the game because the players that never stopped since launch beat them for 6 hours straight and told them to never play the game again.
    Would be happy to hear what the wider community thinks of this. I do realize that this means a better server sorting system and there will be overlap but not asking for perfection but just the attempt.

    Quick updates based on what I have heard so far.

    Will definitely need something like taking the averages of skill levels of a crew to put them in appropriate servers. That way if say you have a top tier player introducing friends to the game for the first time then they get a mid level server. Pro has to teach the new players but the new players have a teacher to help them rapidly improve and if they sail without them later then they will match to what is appropriate for their skill level.

    This would not remove pvp or make the seas less dangerous. Heck, may even make it more dangerous since anyone who you pick a fight with or picks a fight with you is going to give you a challenge.

    I still don't know how to get around inviting a player in late to a crew of new players but the invited player is high ranking. Only thing I can think of is forced server migration but that can be difficult. Still thinking on that but no certainties yet and open to suggestions.

    Open crew would try to match you to crews that match you to your skill as well.

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  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    This could potentially lead to long waiting times when starting the game as the server would not have any ''new player'' or ''pvp sweat'' servers. And nobody wants that.

    Besides, all of us (apart from Day 1 players) had to go through the same experience. I understand the want and need of what you suggested, however, I doubt it would be realistically possible. Games that can easily do that, have way more active players, but then you get smurfs everywhere, so you would never achieve this perfectly.

    If you feel like this game is not for your friends, try something like 7 days to die, it's an amazing game to play with a small group of mates.

    Besides, tell your new players to switch off voice chat, so you would not get any toxicity towards yourself or your crew. Sinking someone usually is not considered toxic, apart from few circumstances.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @huhxyz

    People who like to just sink new players will have a great time - all they need is to create a new pirate and their server will be full of players who they can find and sink with ease.

    Also, not every seasoned player is out there to sink everything in sight - there are plenty of crews who would take the opportunity to join you in doing a world event or help you and tour crew out in another way; you'd be missing out on those if "newby" servers would be a thing.

    What would be the cut-off point anyway - or how many players with more time would be allowed in a crew ? Your crew mates might be new, but you have already 200 hours; would this be fair if you meet a crew with all new players ? Could a 2,000 hour pirate join a crew of new players ... ?

    With the hourglass at least new players will also get to learn the PvP-side of it without losing their treasure; with any luck matchmaking works and your crew will gain something as well.

    One of the first things new crews should be taught is that in Adventure loss will happen and if they don't like losing the loot, they should not stack, keep an eye out - especially doing world events &c.

  • LordQulex
    Captain

    It sounds like your crew already learned your lesson.

    There is a hierarchy of risk/reward in the game. You've successfully identified world events as a "high risk" activity. We don't have to tell you to "git gud" because you're demonstrating you already are!

    Yes, the learning curve here is steep. Yes, it can be discouraging and disengaging to new pirates. But you're well on your way. Don't raise emissary until you're ready for PVP. Keep one pirate on look-out at all times. Just stick to voyages until you're all comfortably standing on your new sea legs. Practice PVP on skeleton ships you see.

    See you on the seas, matey! We know you can do it.

  • VakrisOne
    Marauder
    Insider

    Firstly I think it's important to say this very clearly, it is not toxic if a newer player gets sunk by a veteran player. That is just a normal part of the game.

    Secondly, a matchmaking system just to get into a server is a bad idea for SoT. Here's a few reason why:

    1. Waiting times to get into a server would become a thing and the higher MMR you are the longer the wait time. At the top and also bottom ends of the skill bracket the wait times would become unreasonably long because the game would struggle to find enough players within these brackets. Nobody wants to wait to get into a server and frankly SoT doesn't need it.
    1. The core premise of SoT is about player interactions and experiences regardless of PvP skill levels. That's why you have the ability to use voice chat and mechanics such as alliances. There are many ways to be efficient and savvy out on the seas even as a solo without needing to be a PvP God. This aspect of the game shouldn't be ignored or brushed aside just because new players want to win more fights right out of the gate with less than a week of playing under their belt. A player that gets good at the core mechanics of the game and developes their game sense/awareness is always going to have an advantage over a player with raw PvP skill. Outside of watching streamers and YouTubers the only way to gain this knowledge is to observe and interact with veteran players. New players can't learn anything from each other if every ship on the sea is always another new player. Part of the uniqueness of SoT is that you can meet all kinds of players out on the seas and in the off chance that a new player meets a veteran who is willing to teach and pass on their knowledge, that is a very special moment that only a game like SoT can deliver.
    1. Skill based matchmaking can always be cheesed by people using smurf accounts. You would completely remove the likelihood of new players meeting friendly veterans and in its place you would 100% guarantee that smurf accounts will cheese their way on to new player servers and cause havoc. It would become a sport in the same way that alliance servers are hunted for sport. Except that these new players wouldn't even know what's going on and they wouldn't even have the chance that a friendly vet is on the same server to potentially help them against an aggressive smurf account.
  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    I'd like to see servers balance to player skill levels

    There is no skill. It all comes down to who is good at aiming and can actually hit something

    200 hours vs 2000 hours doesn’t matter. Someone who just started with 1 hour can be just as good as someone with 2000 hours. If not better. Why?

    Because someone like me, I have D1 experience yet I still lack the pvp knowledge. I just aim and fire without any real care and hope for the best
    (Mostly they board me without actual naval combat)

  • Sairdontis4317
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @lordqulex said in Balancing Server Experiences:

    It sounds like your crew already learned your lesson.

    There is a hierarchy of risk/reward in the game. You've successfully identified world events as a "high risk" activity. We don't have to tell you to "git gud" because you're demonstrating you already are!

    Yes, the learning curve here is steep. Yes, it can be discouraging and disengaging to new pirates. But you're well on your way. Don't raise emissary until you're ready for PVP. Keep one pirate on look-out at all times. Just stick to voyages until you're all comfortably standing on your new sea legs. Practice PVP on skeleton ships you see.

    See you on the seas, matey! We know you can do it.

    Unfortunately, you somehow completely missed the point of the OP. "You learned your lesson", this statement is in error as well as a bit condescending towards the poster. The poster clearly stated and I quote: "I know a lot of the more experienced players will say that everyone should just try to learn as they lose but it is hard to learn anything when your waiting on the ferry after 5 seconds of combat and your ship is sunk before you respawn." , yet somehow you missed this or simply ignored it.

    The rest of your post is dripping with "git gud" statements and more condescension bordering on downright insulting the OP. We can do better as forum posters.

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @zig-zag-ltu That is true it might make wait times a little longer but let me throw and example of what I am thinking of.
    Say the server brackets people on what it decides is their skill level into groups of 10. You currently have 8 score 100 players, 4 Skill 50, and 2 score 10 or lower. Way I imagine the server would try to work as assigning it would prioritize putting all the 100s together or at least assigning the 50s to it first. Yes it is very likely that a 10 or lower will be assigned to a server with a 50 but has less chance of being on a server with a 100. The gap is still there but less monstrous. If the servers do have a low period such as between seasons then the overlaps might happen more often. Like I said above, not asking for perfection but just the attempt.

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @lem0n-curry That is a flaw I didn't consider. People who just delete their pirate and recreate a new one. Suppose there would be a need for putting a tracker to the account.

    Very true, I have had good reactions with very veteran players out there. Not all want to just blow someone out of the water every time they see a ship on the horizon.

    Hmm, I actually thought about this after posting but imagine on crews it would have to total the crew skill level and take the average from that. Not a perfect solution and definitely puts a veteran friend introducing newbies to their game in a position they have to be ready to teach and defend their friends. That isn't the worst problem to have though in my opinion. Also wouldn't really think bracketing people by hours would skill base them. I have my 200 hours and I still have only 1 win in the pvp event and that is against an AFK player. I admit my shame!

    True, hourglass has been a good place to learn pvp but it isn't perfect either. I have been in matches where I am rank 4 vs a player with rank 100+. I learned nothing from that encounter other than I didn't want to do it anymore when they sank me at what felt like maximum range perfectly sniping my poor sloop.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @huhxyz So a PVP sweat who likes to sink everyone 24/7 creates a new account, gets into the same server as you, invites his crew. Sinks the whole server. Now at least its random and unpredictable. Also normal players with 2000 hours I doubt would get anything out of sinking new players - fun/experience/loot wise.

    But what problems are you currently experiencing exactly? You will never be able to avoid toxic people in online multiplayer.

    Also you have to remember if you have a crew of 4, that's a big bad galleon sailing around. Just try to use the advice of sinking skeleton galleons. When you and your crew will start feeling comfortable, you will be more than capable of sinking brigs/sloops. Besides smaller ships rarely attack bigger ones. Brig could possibly attack you, but you have 4 cannons vs their 2.

    So as long as your not going to shoot like stormtroopers you have very good chances.

    People who wrote advice here really really meant to help with tips and mindset and its the best way to approach this game.

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @lordqulex Oh I have learned many times the pains of being on the losing side of these encounters. I try to sell well before I hit the 10k+ gold mark.

    The issue with discouraging to participate in game functions though is just that. You are discouraging people from enjoying parts of the game they have just as much right to as well. Yes, these are contested areas and there is no pay to win mechanics in the game, love that. Still, if the new player knows they can never do a skull fort, ashen winds, athena's voyage, FoF, FotD, or flameheart fleet event then how are they supposed to enjoy those parts of the game? Those are HUGE draws to the game. Yes they can attempt to do them but for the majority of the time they will show up and get sunk before event touching the sand. I have been on both ends of this. Defended the events and been sunk at events. Players aren't dumb. They know when they were in a fair fight and lost and they know when they were in a fight that from the start they had no chance of winning.

  • LordQulex
    Captain

    @huhxyz said in Balancing Server Experiences:

    @lordqulex Oh I have learned many times the pains of being on the losing side of these encounters. I try to sell well before I hit the 10k+ gold mark.

    The issue with discouraging to participate in game functions though is just that. You are discouraging people from enjoying parts of the game they have just as much right to as well. Yes, these are contested areas and there is no pay to win mechanics in the game, love that. Still, if the new player knows they can never do a skull fort, ashen winds, athena's voyage, FoF, FotD, or flameheart fleet event then how are they supposed to enjoy those parts of the game? Those are HUGE draws to the game. Yes they can attempt to do them but for the majority of the time they will show up and get sunk before event touching the sand. I have been on both ends of this. Defended the events and been sunk at events. Players aren't dumb. They know when they were in a fair fight and lost and they know when they were in a fight that from the start they had no chance of winning.

    Those are some very good points you have there and I'm going to have to think about it. I appreciate you understanding the purpose of my post. (Looking at you @Sairdontis4317.)

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @vakrisone Oh ya, some just fight see they have won and sail on. No insulting or gloating that they had their victory. Good sportsmanship is all that is and it is something I respect.

    • Figure the system will not be perfect. Server can't just dedicate servers to players in the top or bottom skill bracket and there will be some overlap. What I am suggesting is the server tries to put new players with little to no skill or experience against players who might have some or even good grasp of the game together. Top players who know the finer details of the game who can sail a straight line through storms and sink a galleon from a sloop in under a minute would be put with the like or with players who are approaching that level of skill as well. The type of players who know how to shoot the guns with the waves and just need that extra push to make them legendary as well.

    • I have met many veteran players who taunt me a lot as well. I did learn more from watching them then being taught by them in game though. Seeing from their perspective how I should be playing does put me in a better path to improving. I know they can tell you what to do in game but you need to get that experience yourself. Learn what feels right in combat. The split decisions between sinking them or being sunk. That you can't learn by watching but you also can't learn if you never had a chance of winning to begin with. Not asking to turn pvp off for new players. That should stay on. What I do want is that they learn these lessons from both ends. They should learn to watch their ships and also what ships are a good chance to engage. Should learn to never drop anchor unless they absolutely have to or for coming to full stops then raising it.

    • I do admit there would be a better way of tracking player skill levels. Either by tying it to the account so if they delete their pirate and make a new one it still puts them on the server. As far as purchasing a new account the only fix I could see is if the devs monitored for cards that frequently buy the game and return it a couple hours later far too frequently. There will still be more experienced players to teach new players but they will be closer skill level and able to share their discoveries together.

  • Sairdontis4317
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @lordqulex said in Balancing Server Experiences:

    @huhxyz said in Balancing Server Experiences:

    @lordqulex Oh I have learned many times the pains of being on the losing side of these encounters. I try to sell well before I hit the 10k+ gold mark.

    The issue with discouraging to participate in game functions though is just that. You are discouraging people from enjoying parts of the game they have just as much right to as well. Yes, these are contested areas and there is no pay to win mechanics in the game, love that. Still, if the new player knows they can never do a skull fort, ashen winds, athena's voyage, FoF, FotD, or flameheart fleet event then how are they supposed to enjoy those parts of the game? Those are HUGE draws to the game. Yes they can attempt to do them but for the majority of the time they will show up and get sunk before event touching the sand. I have been on both ends of this. Defended the events and been sunk at events. Players aren't dumb. They know when they were in a fair fight and lost and they know when they were in a fight that from the start they had no chance of winning.

    Those are some very good points you have there and I'm going to have to think about it. I appreciate you understanding the purpose of my post. (Looking at you @Sairdontis4317.)

    You also made some very good points in your past post. Balancing the experience gaps does seems to be a challenge to be overcome and possibly a major hurtle for the developers to also overcome.

    New players don't always appreciate being thrown into the deep end of the pool (pun intended) right of the opening gate and expect a bit of a learning the ropes before being smacked around by the veteran players. Some will stand up and fight back harder to attempt to humble the veterans for their hubris, alas others, however will see the deck has been stacked against them from the start (pun intended again) and refund the game and go in search of a more balanced experience.

    From my experience this last part is the most dangerous one as the ones inclined to leave quick are in fact the casuals and this is largest group of game players that game companies strive to attract and retain. It is quite a knot to untie. I hope for the best in future solutions.

    @zig-zag-ltu said in Balancing Server Experiences:

    @huhxyz So a PVP sweat who likes to sink everyone 24/7 creates a new account, gets into the same server as you, invites his crew. Sinks the whole server. Now at least its random and unpredictable. Also normal players with 2000 hours I doubt would get anything out of sinking new players - fun/experience/loot wise.

    But what problems are you currently experiencing exactly? You will never be able to avoid toxic people in online multiplayer.

    Also you have to remember if you have a crew of 4, that's a big bad galleon sailing around. Just try to use the advice of sinking skeleton galleons. When you and your crew will start feeling comfortable, you will be more than capable of sinking brigs/sloops. Besides smaller ships rarely attack bigger ones. Brig could possibly attack you, but you have 4 cannons vs their 2.

    So as long as your not going to shoot like stormtroopers you have very good chances.

    People who wrote advice here really really meant to help with tips and mindset and its the best way to approach this game.

    I hope Rare can get more crews on a server as this would help new players to be able to team up possibly against more experienced players and their numbers could close the gap a bit. Of course there would be nothing stopping experienced players from ganging up, but at least the option would be there. More players would also add more risk to the seas and starting a fight as their would be more of a chance of another ship sailing by as you are attempting to sink another. This could add some really interesting encounters to the game IMO.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @sairdontis4317 Thing is without Ranks in HG, we will never be able to determine who is in what skill group. This is just an example for sorting out players. Could be another criteria, times sunk, ships sunk etc. But the game should always be balanced towards the best and work from there.

    If devs would decide, Ok let's match players in adventure according to their HG losses. I guarantee you the kind of players that everyone has a problem with ''toxic,chasing for hours,sinking empty ships, offensive'' would just start loss farming until they would get what they want.

    The age of account/hours in game - we have already discussed how that can be exploited.

    Some kind of score as OP originally proposed, well this is how it would work, but what exactly would go into that equation that would be fool proof?

    The only way I can see this happening is sorting servers as per Pirate milestones. But this could be exploited too with a new account...

    One thing I admire about what OP wrote is his willingness to learn, respect of good competition even if they sink, good approach in how to learn and what injustice there is. This was literally my journey in sea of thieves and my mindset...The only difference, he literally has what I always wanted, 3 friends that want to play this game.

    As a solo slooper, I made a decision that I will play this game regardless. Now that I constantly have people to sail with, even my girlfriend plays from time to time I don't really feel these problems anymore. And if we are on a Galleon/Brig I am willing to fight anyone. I hope his mates are not spoiled and have same passion as OP, I am sure that once they accept that this game is not easy, they will start learning and soon they will be the ones that people fear, hopefully they will be good sports and hopefully will treat others as they want to be treated now.

    ''I failed over and over again in my life and that is why I succeeded'' - Michael Jordan.

  • Sairdontis4317
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @zig-zag-ltu

    The good thing is that this game is not a free to play game so that will slow the new accounters a bit as I don't see them erasing all their cool gains just to win some easy fights. If someone is receiving the game illegally (so they can make new accounts without paying) then that of course be up to Rare to hash out.

    I think unless they have some game formula changes in store in the short run then the only solutions I can see IMO is to create more things to do to keep the interest of the "sweats" of the game and keep them away from the new and learning players.

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @burnbacon

    @burnbacon said in Balancing Server Experiences:

    I'd like to see servers balance to player skill levels

    There is no skill. It all comes down to who is good at aiming and can actually hit something

    I would definitely call that skill. Also, yes I can understand some people just seem to click and pick up things faster. That is why I would recommend the game track other stats besides time played. Yes, when they first log in and have 0% on everything they will be considered newbie and if they are just naturally talented in this they will quickly progress to harder bracketed players that fit more to what they are capable of. This game has a lot of pvp interactions so I can definitely see that pvp is something that will always be evolving and learning but you have to be trying to learn to improve.

  • Sairdontis4317
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @huhxyz said in Balancing Server Experiences:

    @burnbacon

    @burnbacon said in Balancing Server Experiences:

    I'd like to see servers balance to player skill levels

    There is no skill. It all comes down to who is good at aiming and can actually hit something

    I would definitely call that skill. Also, yes I can understand some people just seem to click and pick up things faster. That is why I would recommend the game track other stats besides time played. Yes, when they first log in and have 0% on everything they will be considered newbie and if they are just naturally talented in this they will quickly progress to harder bracketed players that fit more to what they are capable of. This game has a lot of pvp interactions so I can definitely see that pvp is something that will always be evolving and learning but you have to be trying to learn to improve.

    Would be helpful if somehow the newbie knew what they did wrong in a fight instead of making them guess. Maybe a Pirate Lord walkthrough on the mechanics of ship battles.

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @sairdontis4317 Thank you for your puns. They were witty and entertaining.

    I do think having more players on the seas would be a good thing with this balance. Currently I know servers struggle if there are 2 or more galleons on the waters but I am sure they could solve that. Also, I don't doubt the difficulty of writing a code to check player/average crew skill level before putting them in a corresponding server. It would definitely be a task and a half but other games have done this before so I know it is possible.

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @zig-zag-ltu I don't think this should be based off of HG rank and instead be under something they player has no way of monitoring themselves. Like imagine if the game tracked your kill ratings over all and accuracy. You would only move up in the ranks and never back down. Yes this might mean players who were top tier and took a year hiatus may come back and have to shake off the rust but I know they will quickly get back to that range.

    Thank you for your kind words. I realize I am a slow learner so figure I am going to sink more then most and be more open to learning from loss. I for the longest time was solo slooping as well and as I have been told many a time the sloop is the best ship in the game it still doesn't mean much till you know what you are doing. Sure you felt that pain as well.

    Ya, that is one thing that in my own opinion is not advertised enough in Rare's promotions of this game. These are not friendly waters and pvp is not optional. The difficulty is there and you will have to face problems you might not be ready for. I just want every player to have the chance of a somewhat fair fight that they can feel they earned or learned from.

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @sairdontis4317 Well the problem with just NPC tutorials is always how little they can teach you. Sure they can give you target practice or even teach you how to raise sails to half during moments to help land more shots but, you won't improve without putting those into practice against real people. That would be the same as just having players now only practice on skeleton sloops/galleons. While these a good practice and teach you basic aim and ship to ship combat they in no way prepare you for a battle with an experienced crew who will aim for your masts, blunder bomb you off your ships, target you on your own decks for one-balls, shoot themselves onto your deck while dual gunning, and harpoon pulling you onto a beach. There is just no real comparison for a new crew who fight npc enemies to compare to the high intensity battles of pvp. It is so much to soak in and put to practice all at once and being in the same pool of pirates trying to learn and practice these tricks would be the perfect way for them to learn them then move up and learn even more.

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @sairdontis4317 Oh ya, making this game free to play would be a death sentence. Already notice there has been a rise in hackers playing and giving them the infinite new accounts would murder it long before the skill difference drives off fresh players.

    I do like the idea of more events for players to do. The pvp players can't be everywhere so raises the chance of people wanting to do events alone that peace. Still, the players will have to learn to pvp and defend their treasures so I still would think it might help to put them in worlds that they will meet players on the same skill level to learn together.

  • Sairdontis4317
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @huhxyz said in Balancing Server Experiences:

    @sairdontis4317 Well the problem with just NPC tutorials is always how little they can teach you. Sure they can give you target practice or even teach you how to raise sails to half during moments to help land more shots but, you won't improve without putting those into practice against real people. That would be the same as just having players now only practice on skeleton sloops/galleons. While these a good practice and teach you basic aim and ship to ship combat they in no way prepare you for a battle with an experienced crew who will aim for your masts, blunder bomb you off your ships, target you on your own decks for one-balls, shoot themselves onto your deck while dual gunning, and harpoon pulling you onto a beach. There is just no real comparison for a new crew who fight npc enemies to compare to the high intensity battles of pvp. It is so much to soak in and put to practice all at once and being in the same pool of pirates trying to learn and practice these tricks would be the perfect way for them to learn them then move up and learn even more.

    Oh, I don't disagree with you . I was just speaking maybe just a verbal run down on what you did wrong by the Pirate Lord and tips to improve maybe ?

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @sairdontis4317 Hmm, I mean that could go a few ways. In game tips are often ignored if they are just general load screen things. Some of the tips after a battle might not be helpful at all, like the tip saying "Protect your masts or you'll be dead in the water.". Yes, good tip but kind of obvious. Also, an automatic correction after the battle in what might be a frayed nerves time could also agitate some people.

    Not saying your idea isn't good because providing information is helpful. Just saying it might not have as much effect as you think it would. Thank you for engaging though.

  • PapaRug420
    Master

    Sea of Thieves SHOULD feel dangerous

    Pirates SHOULD be feared!

    Skill matchmaking in adventure removes that danger.

    It's a pirate game. Fear and dread should play a BIG role in the game.

    Sea of Thieves goes a small way to replicating the anxiety and tension that sailors must of felt knowing they were sailing through pirate infested waters.

    PvE servers, ranked servers, or solo sloops only servers REMOVE that danger, and fundamentally change the core experience of the game.

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @paparug420 How does having ranked make it feel less dangerous? You are still going to to have to fight for your life and loot by someone who is just as good as you or as close as possible to that level. So either equal, slightly better, or just slightly worse. The only people that don't think this game is dangerous are the pvp sweats who currently never feel challenged because the game has little to no chance of putting them together when it rngs them in the full server list. Those players SHOULD feel fear, anxiety, and dread when a ship comes to attack them. Not the laughing confidence that they know they have already won.

    Skill based doesn't remove the danger. You can and will still be attacked and have to be ready for it at any given time.

    Yes, it is a pirate GAME. Being afraid and dreading the possibility of being attacked should be a part of it but as a GAME the players should still have fun. If you make a game that you can't have fun in or forces a large chunk of it's players to only fear and dread and never have fun then you haven't made a game. You just made a waste of time for them and you deserve the back charges when they refund it.

    This is not a historical game. If it was you wouldn't be fighting other pirates, you wouldn't be fighting the majority of the time as pirates actually would avoid battle as much as possible and instead focused on intimidating ships into surrender, you wouldn't be searching for buried treasure, and the devs would have to add navy fleet ships that would murder your entire crew and ship whenever they spotted you and never stopped pursuing till you were dead. This is a FANTASY pirate GAME. It's made to be fun for people. If your excuse for wanting to just be a jerk to everyone on the seas is "I'm a pirate!" Then you need to remember it is also a game with real people on both ends of these engagements.

    Won't be PVE will still be PVP just made so you know you are in for a balanced fight. Never said anything about solo only servers. The core experience remains the same except for the crews that only want to smear new players and laugh about their virtual superiority in a video game.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    You can't make this game skill based unless you completely remove the ability to join a crew in progress and transfer between servers using portals or hourglass, which is not going to be easy. It would also likely kill open crew and make it incredibly hard to want to keep playing if someone on your crew needs to leave because you can't just invite someone else.

  • DutchDeadSchot
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @huhxyz no such thing as a “toxic” group. Only pirates matey.

    HARHAR

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @d3adst1ck Actually had this come up earlier in the chat... should definitely put in an edit based on the feedback I have gotten.

    Anyways, the thought of the change for that would be talking a crew average. Like if a pro was on a galleon with 3 noobs it wouldn't put them in a 100% noob server. Would put them in a somewhat experienced server. That way the pro doesn't crush the noob server but pro also is stressed because they will have to rely on their 3 crewmates. Averages out the entire crews skill level and tries to match them to an appropriate server of that level. The pro would also be teaching their crew so they will hopefully be reaching the same levels quickly. Not a perfect fix but it is something to improve the game experience overall.

    Open crew would function the same way but also... open crew needs some fixes of it's own too. A lot of trolls there.

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @dutchdeadschot Where'd you quote that from because I can't find it anywhere?

  • DutchDeadSchot
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @huhxyz your very first post matey.

  • DutchDeadSchot
    Master
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    Founder

    @huhxyz said in Balancing Server Experiences:

    Alright, unpopular opinion but one I think needs to be stated and probably has been before but I am new to the forums so wouldn't mind hearing the discussion on this if it is a supported or hated idea. Maybe a healthy mix of both.
    I'd like to see servers balance to player skill levels. I have about 200 hours into the game so I know I am a hopeless scrub who should just "git gud" but I have no desire to attempt world events or risk a lot of pvp encounters due to how wide the skill gap is between myself and some players with over 2,000 hours in the game. Recently had four friends get the game and I have been trying to introduce them into the world but I know it will only take one crushing defeat by a toxic group that never stops playing to probably put these four new accounts on the refund wait list.
    I know a lot of the more experienced players will say that everyone should just try to learn as they lose but it is hard to learn anything when your waiting on the ferry after 5 seconds of combat and your ship is sunk before you respawn. Sure you might learn something but not enough to make you WANT to continue learning the more detailed parts of pvp. Also, know there will be the players who have fun crushing new players and laughing at how superior they are at a video game. If you are so superior then you should have no trouble fighting on servers with players of that skill level.
    So, just imagining it is set on the skill of the players based on their pvp statistics. If you have 100+ kills you would be bracket to servers around that range. You fight against other crews in battles that feel more epic and teeth clenching. Newer crews fight in battles that last more then 10 seconds and can slowly or rapidly based on how fast they learn get the experience they need to get in on these high intensity battles. Seems to me like this would be something players would want. No more running ships that know they can't win and no more new players refunding the game because the players that never stopped since launch beat them for 6 hours straight and told them to never play the game again.
    Would be happy to hear what the wider community thinks of this. I do realize that this means a better server sorting system and there will be overlap but not asking for perfection but just the attempt.

  • Huhxyz
    Rogue

    @dutchdeadschot Ahh, ok thank you for the clarification. Ya, I still don't consider that type of groups pirates as much as just trolls in online play. Still that is just my opinion and not the standard so to each their own and I accept mine might not be the norm.

  • DutchDeadSchot
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @huhxyz Aye, we be but humble pirates....

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @huhxyz said in Balancing Server Experiences:

    @d3adst1ck Actually had this come up earlier in the chat... should definitely put in an edit based on the feedback I have gotten.

    Anyways, the thought of the change for that would be talking a crew average. Like if a pro was on a galleon with 3 noobs it wouldn't put them in a 100% noob server. Would put them in a somewhat experienced server. That way the pro doesn't crush the noob server but pro also is stressed because they will have to rely on their 3 crewmates. Averages out the entire crews skill level and tries to match them to an appropriate server of that level. The pro would also be teaching their crew so they will hopefully be reaching the same levels quickly. Not a perfect fix but it is something to improve the game experience overall.

    Open crew would function the same way but also... open crew needs some fixes of it's own too. A lot of trolls there.

    That doesn't solve anything. The way the game works is that it starts a crew when you click set sail, so if you start a closed crew by yourself using a low tier or alternate account it would presumably place you into a "noob" server because you're the only crew member and there is no history associated with the account. The average is no to low skill. Once the ship is placed, you just invite all your regular crew who have much higher rated accounts then, you log out and switch to your main account and get one of the crew to invite you.

    The ability to invite crew to an already created ship would need to be disabled for skill based matchmaking to work. This is why a lot of battle royale games do not allow joining matches in progress; because the games are skill rated so changing the makeup of a group mid-game messes with that. It's why the solo sloop hourglass prevents invited players from joining during an active battle. The problem is that doing this fundamentally changes how crews are created and operate over longer periods of time, which would essentially result in less larger ships because they'd become much harder to keep going and start up, since everyone would need to be there at the start.

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