Remove the Battle-Zone please!

So what happen if the fleeing crew dive. Would the other crew be awarded as if they went out of bounds?

I feel like if anything, Rare needs to fix the battle zone as a one way in and no way out until the battle is completed.

Many people have stated that it’s unfair when a 3rd ship interferes with a battle because they have the freedom to run out of the boundary zone. If another ship enters a battle zone, they should get a notification that once they sail in, they can’t sail out until they sink the opposing faction ship

@d3adst1ck Nope, that's not what I'm asking for. Running should naturally not be a viable alternative to combat, such as it is right now with many contenders just running in circles. I'm on the contrary proposing a solution for those who want the fight and won't sign up for chasing a ship around in circles for hours. This suggestion would give us the ability to cancel the battle, naturally without any rewards. Thereby, there's no incentive to run. Furthermore, it is far easier to hunt down a running ship without the limit of the battlezone.

@butterfinger750 The hunt is a part of the game. If a fleeing crew escapes, there shouldn't be any rewards. It's up to the chasing ship to deny the fleeing crew their escape.

@chlodovicus just no... that would be terrible. If anything the zone needs to be smaller.

@d3adst1ck It makes perfect sense. As it is currently, ships are running in circles anyway. Let those who really want to battle it out do so, and give them the option to disengage from a contest with a running ship. It's quite simple really. Also, as I posted, the battle-zone is far to small for the Galleon to properly maneuver.

I'd appreciate feedback from Galleon-captains with 1000+ hours sailed and who have actual naval combat experience with the Galleon. They are few and far between however. Unfortunately, we hardly see any skilled Galleons anymore and as it currently stands there's little incentive to play the new hourglass-mode with a Galleon.

The new hourglass-mode is well suited for the sloop and to some degree for the brigantine, as they have better maneuverability and aren't as handicapped as the Galleon is under these circumstances.

@flickero said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

@chlodovicus just no... that would be terrible. If anything the zone needs to be smaller.

Have you tried captaining the Galleon through extensive combat for 1000s of hours? If you had, you'd know what I mean and why there are so few skilled Galleons out there.

Besides the issues with the Galleon, there are quite a lot of issues with the limitation of the battle-zone for many players. Which solutions do you propose?

@d3adst1ck said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

@chlodovicus said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

Let those who really want to battle it out do so

Those are supposed to be the ones who opt into the hourglass, hence the restricted battle area.

And know that we know that it isn't working as intended, then what?

Maybe just make 3 sizes for the zone for the 3 ship types. I seems it is too small for galleons maybe (never tried) and it is way too large for sloops

@d3adst1ck said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

@chlodovicus Add a time limit or shrinking circle to force a conclusion, not make it bigger and easier to run for longer periods of time with the ability to dodge combat completely.

Again, I'm not suggesting that it should be possible to dodge combat and gain any kind of rewards.

Time limits and shrinking circles have been suggested before:

• With a time limit players might get cut off in the middle of their most epic battle ever. And how would you settle a stalemate? In that scenario players invest time and energy into a battle that won't give them any rewards at all, if they fail to sink their opponent before time runs out. Then what?

• A shrinking battlezone might work well for games like "Fortnite", but with ships in a game like SoT I highly doubt it would work. I wouldn't be tempted to try.
  
  RARE has stated that they're trying to create a fluid experience with the new hourglass-mode integrated into adventure-mode. A removal of the battle-zone would undoubtedly serve the stated purpose nicely.

@chlodovicus said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

@flickero said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

@chlodovicus just no... that would be terrible. If anything the zone needs to be smaller.

Have you tried captaining the Galleon through extensive combat for 1000s of hours? If you had, you'd know what I mean and why there are so few skilled Galleons out there.

Besides the issues with the Galleon, there are quite a lot of issues with the limitation of the battle-zone for many players. Which solutions do you propose?

Sorry man I can't even take you serious if you say you advocate for PvP yet want the battle area removed. Why not just stay in regular adventure and chase reaper 5s across the map?

@coffeelight5545 said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

I feel like if anything, Rare needs to fix the battle zone as a one way in and no way out until the battle is completed.

Many people have stated that it’s unfair when a 3rd ship interferes with a battle because they have the freedom to run out of the boundary zone. If another ship enters a battle zone, they should get a notification that once they sail in, they can’t sail out until they sink the opposing faction ship

I partly agree. Let me present a little anecdotal story:

Recently, my motley crew and myself dove well-stocked for the first fight of our evening session. We burst out of the sea and were faced with two Champion, reaper 5, DA-sails, allied Galleons who had just sunk a poor little sloop. An absolutely fantastic battle ensued where we took on the two Galleons at the same time. We held our own for about 15 minutes and almost sank both of them, but due to the limiting factor of the battle-zone we were unable to outmaneuver them both and we eventually got pinned, boarded and sunk. It was a fair fight and great fun. Without the battlezone however, I'm quite sure we would have won. Epic battles like these are what I'm searching for, but with the battle-zone I feel like my options are severely limited when compared with the actual adventure mode.

Emerging out of the waves directly into an ambush set up by a waiting fleet is not a curse, it's a gift, under the right circumstances. I do however acknowledge that it seems very unfair to players who didn't sign up to being ambushed by a fleet, and by removing the battle-zone there would be increased options to deal with such a scenario.

@flickero said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

@chlodovicus said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

@flickero said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

@chlodovicus just no... that would be terrible. If anything the zone needs to be smaller.

Have you tried captaining the Galleon through extensive combat for 1000s of hours? If you had, you'd know what I mean and why there are so few skilled Galleons out there.

Besides the issues with the Galleon, there are quite a lot of issues with the limitation of the battle-zone for many players. Which solutions do you propose?

Sorry man I can't even take you serious if you say you advocate for PvP yet want the battle area removed. Why not just stay in regular adventure and chase reaper 5s across the map?

No need to be sorry buddy. I'm sure that with more experience you'll be able to understand my arguments better. It's however hard to take your comment seriously, since you apparently either ignore or fail to understand my arguments. But fyi, I do really love to hunt down reaper 5 Galleons and have done so for years. If you ever get to the point where you've captained and helmed a Galleon for 4000+ hours through countless battles, with varying crews, you might be able to comprehend my point of view.

Happy sailing!

Please fully integrate the new Hourglass-mode with Adventure-mode by removing the battle-zone. Instead, give players the possibility to dive again if the distance between the contending ships becomes too great. This would solve several issues

Sure, if Im losing I can just run away and neither party gets points.
No you shouldn't get exp for a runner, it isn't fair or fun. You basically earn exp for...out shooting or stalling someone to boredom.

The problem with players being spawn camped and sailed out of bounds would be solved.

Scuttle is the answer. They need a new way to "capture" ships when a crew is all on the ferry. OR...prevent boarders...

The new hourglass mode would feel and play out a lot more like adventure mode without the limiting boundary.

Remove the boarder, but add a distance measure to "dive" ....samething but different name.

Skilled sailors would also be able to retreat if they feel the need to, by distancing themselves from their opponents and dive if possible.

Skilled or cowards?

Without a limiting boundary, crews can stay focused on the battle and proper maneuvering

.....No for what your asking, now they have to worry about getting to far away from each other or risk diving in a battle they maybe winning.

@chlodovicus

You know how people post complaining about runners?

The word "exacerbate" comes to mind.

This idea isn't so great.

@d3adst1ck i think this would be the case, but having separate instances fighting has already proven to be very very laggy

I would not say that stalling (or running) in a opt in PvP mode is a valid tactic. Especially when they haven’t even tried to fight. If you’re running in adventure then sure, it’s PvEvP world. But hourglass battles are specifically made for a 1v1 battle with another ship.

If anything I think players that do that shouldn’t be able to continue to dive for a certain amount of days.

@chlodovicus howdy, I’m a helmsman with a lot of experience helming galleons and I think the size of the arena is fine. It’s plenty big enough for skillful tactics when fighting in a galleon, against a galleon. Sure it’s less room than the other two ships but if you’re experienced enough that doesn’t really matter.

Also all this talking down to people because you have “1000+ hours Captaining a Galleon” makes you look really bad and it’s really not needed. Is it that difficult to have a respectful conversation without telling people they need more experience to comprehend your opinion? People can have different opinions with the same experience.

For example, I don’t really agree with any of your opinions here and I’ve spent my entire time on SoT since it’s release helming. Helming sloops, Brigs and Galleons. But I won’t for a second think that other people’s opinions don’t matter just because they haven’t spent 3000+ hours just helming.

@ninja-naranja a dit dans Remove the Battle-Zone please! :

If anything I think players that do that shouldn’t be able to continue to dive for a certain amount of days.

As I said in an other thread, even though runners are a real pain to deal with, it'd be very difficult to differentiate people that deliberately try to waste your time and make you quit out of boredom from legitimately sailing away to reset a badly-engaged fight or to have one's ship safe while attempting to board, expecially on solo sloop battles. (not talking about damaged wheels...)

So as much as I would love to see a fix to this issue, I don't think there can be one unfortunately. Temporarily turning away from a fight is a fair tactic.

The issue lies with the people who uses it, not with the mechanics. This is just toxicity and nothing can be done about that unfortunately

@jolly-ol-yep yeah, I know there’d be no way to track the people who just run for the sake of running (not tactfully retreating). It’s still annoying when it happens though.

@coffeelight5545 said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

I feel like if anything, Rare needs to fix the battle zone as a one way in and no way out until the battle is completed.

Many people have stated that it’s unfair when a 3rd ship interferes with a battle because they have the freedom to run out of the boundary zone. If another ship enters a battle zone, they should get a notification that once they sail in, they can’t sail out until they sink the opposing faction ship

agree, suggested this last week

@unleet1 said in pvp alliance exploit:

Any 3rd party ship that enters the battle zone should just get hourglassed and stuck. ;) There will be a banner along the perimeter warning the other crews.

@d3adst1ck said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

@chlodovicus said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

Again, I'm not suggesting that it should be possible to dodge combat and gain any kind of rewards.

This is exactly what would happen, especially if you have fought that ship before. Oh, these guys are tough - let's just run and then dive away. That is a dodge.

• With a time limit players might get cut off in the middle of their most epic battle ever. And how would you settle a stalemate? In that scenario players invest time and energy into a battle that won't give them any rewards at all, if they fail to sink their opponent before time runs out. Then what?

If players can't win before the time runs out, they haven't won by the rules of the game mode. Plenty of games and sports have this type of restriction in effect, and then the result is either a draw or resolved through a tie breaker.

Either hand out a draw, both ships get loser reputation and migrate the invader away. If there must be a winner, there would need to be a point system and the losers hourglass explode and sink their ship but in this case they would still get loser rep, but I'm sure there are other options that don't involve making it easier to run and drag out combat with chasing, etc..

• A shrinking battlezone might work well for games like "Fortnite", but with ships in a game like SoT I highly doubt it would work. I wouldn't be tempted to try.
  
  RARE has stated that they're trying to create a fluid experience with the new hourglass-mode integrated into adventure-mode. A removal of the battle-zone would undoubtedly serve the stated purpose nicely.

Rare has also stated that they intend for the hourglass fights to have a definitive end, which is why there is a restricted area. They are not going to open up the entire map, so the solutions we're left with are to use a time limit or to force the battle to a conclusion in some way. Shrinking circle is an effective way to prevent running and force two ships together to get an ending one way or the other.

Yes, you are right. Dodging fights is a real issue, and I'm still not suggesting any rewards for it. You do have a valid point tough. Recently my hearty crew and myself had prepared our Galleon and had been submerged for about 45 minutes in total prep-time. Then, we were matched against a Russian Brigantine on a NA-east server running with a long faction streak. The Brig kept running in circles and stayed out of cannon-range for about an hour. Their only tactic was to try to board and lock us down, which they couldn't. Eventually their frustration tactic worked and we disbanded our ship. Without the battlezone, things would have been different. In this specific scenario, the game-meta that was created by the battlezone heavily favoured the Brigantine. In adventure-mode, similar encounters play out very differently for us where our opponents either (rarely) escapes or we hunt them down.

Maybe there should be a time-limit. I'm not completely against it. In that case it might be combined with the old cannon-hit-point system from The Arena to determine a winner. But that would also encourage hit-and-run tactics.

For my suggestion to work, maybe there should be awarded a win to the last ship floating. So, the diving/retreating ship still would get nothing, while the remaining ship gets the win. In line with fights having a definitive end. That would still require a specific mechanic to determine a winner should the retreating ship not dive. Maybe the cannon-hit-point system could work well and also encourage more naval combat.

I do see your point of view regarding especially time-limits and to some degree shrinking zones. But I personally deeply treasure the freedom there is regarding naval combat in adventure mode, which is more organic and naturally less constrained.

Runners are going to run no matter what. Maybe a time-limit combined with a damage-count and a distance limit of about 10 map-squares would be a good overall solution. The battlezone would thereby still exist although it would be invisible, dynamic and follow the contending ships instead of constraining them.

@chlodovicus said:

I'd appreciate feedback from Galleon-captains with 1000+ hours sailed and who have actual naval combat experience with the Galleon.

I agree with deadstick.

@chlodovicus i dont like rewarding crews for running and this is exactly what this mode would promote. Horrible idea IMO.

@callmebackdraft said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

@chlodovicus

Let those who really want to battle it out do so,

When you vote for hourglass you voted to enter a battle where only one ships leaves still floating

I agree. But I believe the hourglass isn't quite working as intended regarding alliance-fleets, spawn-camping and runners. There needs to be another alternative. Most crews don't have the time or patience to chase around in circles for hours. Other crews have plenty of time. There needs to be another alternative with respect to the time players invest in the game. Naval combat is more organic, unpredictable and is naturally less constrained in adventure-mode.

@burnbacon said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

Please fully integrate the new Hourglass-mode with Adventure-mode by removing the battle-zone. Instead, give players the possibility to dive again if the distance between the contending ships becomes too great. This would solve several issues

Sure, if Im losing I can just run away and neither party gets points.
No you shouldn't get exp for a runner, it isn't fair or fun. You basically earn exp for...out shooting or stalling someone to boredom.

The problem with players being spawn camped and sailed out of bounds would be solved.

Scuttle is the answer. They need a new way to "capture" ships when a crew is all on the ferry. OR...prevent boarders...

The new hourglass mode would feel and play out a lot more like adventure mode without the limiting boundary.

Remove the boarder, but add a distance measure to "dive" ....samething but different name.

Skilled sailors would also be able to retreat if they feel the need to, by distancing themselves from their opponents and dive if possible.

Skilled or cowards?

Without a limiting boundary, crews can stay focused on the battle and proper maneuvering

.....No for what your asking, now they have to worry about getting to far away from each other or risk diving in a battle they maybe winning.

Maybe a big distance-limit combined with a time-limit and the old cannon-hit-point-system from The Arena would work. That would create a dynamic battle-zone that follows the contenders instead of constraining them. There would thereby by a clear winner after a set amount of time.

@pithyrumble said in Remove the Battle-Zone please!:

@chlodovicus

You know how people post complaining about runners?

The word "exacerbate" comes to mind.

This idea isn't so great.

Yes, players are currently running in circles within the battlezone. Naval combat is more organic, dynamic and fun in adventure-mode where the game-meta is quite different and running in circles within a fixed boundary isn't an option. Furthermore, when confronted with a running Brigantine while we're on a Galleon it would be nice to politely refuse the Brigantines hour-long frustration tactics and leave to find a proper fight that's worth our time. Runners are going to run with, or without the battlezone.