before everyone starst telling me this isnt an anime and we should not have smth like that here, hear me out. Double gunning is meta, and sword is jus kind of there and used by new players mainly (very few occasions where I saw good players use it for actual combat). So what if we implement a technique of parrying bullets, where after the shot there would be like a 0.3 sec window where a player holding the sword on block will be able to deflect those bullets by hopping towards the attacker. Like a regular dodge but towards the shots. This will negate the damage but will not deal damage to the original shooter. U cannot spam it due to hop mechanics, and anyone can survive the second shot when at full health. This would be the mechanic that people will know of, but will not be so easy to pull off. So then players would actually have two metas, and then it a matter of one's skill with eahc tool that determines the winner. Cuz rn good aim and ping are a straight up win. Thoughts?
Bullet parry
A sword deflecting a bullet? Come on! Sorry but that’s an awful idea. What next, a cannonball being deflected by a snake basket?
Rather than that, how about a very minute chance of a gun mis-firing, perhaps via a jammed mechanism. From my military experience I’ve had this happen to me before, though admittedly on a firing range rather than the angry end of the gun pointing at a person. 🤣
@scurvywoof its better than star wars. We have a weird-looking toy that allows us to part a magic fog. And it recharges by jus standing in a special room. :)
I hate when people use "Its meta" as an excuse to either nerf something or buff something. Meta really does not mean that something is actuallt better, but that the majority think its best. Its plenty easy to deal with a double gunner using sword and any weapon if you change how you play, you can beat the meta without buffs or nerfs.
All too often i have seen people claim meta, even if something beats it, they will never stray from the idea of meta being best.
@guyrza I would rather have swords have better attack patterns and ranges instead. Maybe give us the ability to throw our sword like Will Turner did in Pirates of the Caribbean 1? It could stun on hit for like 1-2 seconds and deal a mediocre amount of damage (and OHK on a head hit).
Would sound more realistic to me.
@guyrza said in Bullet parry:
@scurvywoof its better than star wars. We have a weird-looking toy that allows us to part a magic fog. And it recharges by jus standing in a special room. :)
Truueeeee
@talia-sendua and then the enemy jumps overboard and takes a merm, with ur sword still stuck in him lol. But tbh the idea is rather good, as long as u get ur sword back. Then u can stun the opponent, close distance and attack. I like that
@goldsmen said in Bullet parry:
I hate when people use "Its meta" as an excuse to either nerf something or buff something. Meta really does not mean that something is actuallt better, but that the majority think its best. Its plenty easy to deal with a double gunner using sword and any weapon if you change how you play, you can beat the meta without buffs or nerfs.
All too often i have seen people claim meta, even if something beats it, they will never stray from the idea of meta being best.
A single one yes, a full crew of them having boarded and camping you; not so much.
@goldsmen fact of the matter is the DPS output of doublegun, no matter what combination is a ton higher then when one of those guns gets swapped out by a sword.
1 blunder shot = 10 ~ 100% health + Knockback
1 pistol shot = 50% health
1 sniper hit = 70% health
1 sword hit = 25% health
1 sword lunge = 60% healthIn between shots the gunner can:
- heal
- reload
- run/jump
Sword strikes have to either be combo’d or charged, this charge and the combo gets cancelled by any form of damage taken.
In the meantime, gunners can casually reload while taking any sort of damage even when someone is shoving a sword up their rear ends
And within a 4 strike combo a blunder can get shot, reloaded and shot again.
So yeah damage output wise guns are the meta
Weapon combos and required hits to kill:
- sniper/pistol = 2 hits
- sniper/blunder = 1~2 hits
- pistol/blunder = 1~2 hits on average
- sword/blunder = 1~3 hits
- sword/sniper = 2~3 hits
- sword/pistol = 2~4 hits
A sword/gun combo averages way higher in hits required then any other combo plus having the requirement/disadvantage to either charge an attack which can get cancelled by any damage or having to shove your face danger close to the enemy.
There is no way to anim cancel the sword and there is ample anim cancels with guns (reload anim cancelling, swap anim canceling f.i.) so not only is hits required per kill lower time between potential hits is also way lower with guns
@callmebackdraft
And this problem is exacerbated by the fact that the blunder is the most reliable boarding defense. And the knockback is very helpful, resetting fights when you miss and knocking your opponent off the ship often enough on a sloop and sometimes on brigs.The fact is that 95% of players in sloop hourglass PvP are carrying a blunderbuss, and there's a good reason why.
Swords are meant to be able to get in with sword lunge, but with blunderbuss's ability to shoot at mid range, do knockback, reset the fight and reload before a sword will pressure them, there's no good way to fight a blunderbuss with sword. The best you can really do is dodge and hope you don't get one-blundered by a backtrack or knocked off the ship.
@GoldsMen Double gunning is meta in the way that it gives you the best chance to win. No one is saying that DGers are unkillable or that they don't have weaknesses. But they are the most viable option and even some newer, less experienced players are ditching sword because double gunning is so infamous.
@pumpa-cat said in Bullet parry:
Rather than that, how about a very minute chance of a gun mis-firing, perhaps via a jammed mechanism. From my military experience I’ve had this happen to me before, though admittedly on a firing range rather than the angry end of the gun pointing at a person. 🤣
We already have this with "ADS bug", isn't that enough? :P
@unleet1 said in Bullet parry:
@pumpa-cat said in Bullet parry:
Rather than that, how about a very minute chance of a gun mis-firing, perhaps via a jammed mechanism. From my military experience I’ve had this happen to me before, though admittedly on a firing range rather than the angry end of the gun pointing at a person. 🤣
We already have this with "ADS bug", isn't that enough? :P
🤣👍
@personalc0ffee said in Bullet parry:
@goldsmen said in Bullet parry:
I hate when people use "Its meta" as an excuse to either nerf something or buff something. Meta really does not mean that something is actuallt better, but that the majority think its best. Its plenty easy to deal with a double gunner using sword and any weapon if you change how you play, you can beat the meta without buffs or nerfs.
All too often i have seen people claim meta, even if something beats it, they will never stray from the idea of meta being best.
A single one yes, a full crew of them having boarded and camping you; not so much.
A full galleon crew, i have no idea, i have run into a surprisingly low number of galleons, but i can say a brig of double gunners is easy enough to fight solo as long as you dont confront them all head to head.
The biggest issue i have seen when people fail against double gunners as a whole is strategy, everyone just holds forward and clicks with a sword, with a few side jumps, creativity is the strength of the sword!
@callmebackdraft I have seen the numbers before, but raw numbers doesnt include the details of how something is used. Sword is always paired with a fire arm, and if you arnt using your fire arm with sword you are holding your self back a lot, as well sword lunge has more than just 60% damage going for it.
@goldsmen said in Bullet parry:
@callmebackdraft I have seen the numbers before, but raw numbers doesnt include the details of how something is used. Sword is always paired with a fire arm, and if you arnt using your fire arm with sword you are holding your self back a lot, as well sword lunge has more than just 60% damage going for it.
I agree sword is where it is at.
@goldsmen said in Bullet parry:
@callmebackdraft I have seen the numbers before, but raw numbers doesnt include the details of how something is used. Sword is always paired with a fire arm, and if you arnt using your fire arm with sword you are holding your self back a lot, as well sword lunge has more than just 60% damage going for it.
Still like i said, time to kill is heavily in favor to double gun, also you dont have to convert me to being a sword user, i have been using it for well over 5000 hours in the game however non of that means that the balance is not broken in favor of double gunning, because it quite obviously is. Imho opinion its not even double gunning necessarily its one weapon that breaks it and that is the blunder being op as the only weapon that:
- can one shot
- gives knockback on a single click of a button
Yes the one shot should only work at point blank range but with hitreg where it is it happens at longer ranges too plus the weapon is WAY to viable at medium to long range since one pellet can send you flying and increase the distance between you and your enemy without punishment, the sword lunge can close the distance but with MAYOR risk involved:
- you have to charge it leaving you vulnerable
- if you miss you are stunlocked leaving you vulnerable
- any damage stops the charge leaving you vulnerable
While a blunderbuss just in the general direction of the enemy does usually enough damage to finish them off with any other firearm
@callmebackdraft said in Bullet parry:
@goldsmen said in Bullet parry:
@callmebackdraft I have seen the numbers before, but raw numbers doesnt include the details of how something is used. Sword is always paired with a fire arm, and if you arnt using your fire arm with sword you are holding your self back a lot, as well sword lunge has more than just 60% damage going for it.
Still like i said, time to kill is heavily in favor to double gun, also you dont have to convert me to being a sword user, i have been using it for well over 5000 hours in the game however non of that means that the balance is not broken in favor of double gunning, because it quite obviously is. Imho opinion its not even double gunning necessarily its one weapon that breaks it and that is the blunder being op as the only weapon that:
- can one shot
- gives knockback on a single click of a button
Yes the one shot should only work at point blank range but with hitreg where it is it happens at longer ranges too plus the weapon is WAY to viable at medium to long range since one pellet can send you flying and increase the distance between you and your enemy without punishment, the sword lunge can close the distance but with MAYOR risk involved:
- you have to charge it leaving you vulnerable
- if you miss you are stunlocked leaving you vulnerable
- any damage stops the charge leaving you vulnerable
While a blunderbuss just in the general direction of the enemy does usually enough damage to finish them off with any other firearm
The charge is a down side to sword, but as long as your not just doing it on the deck in front of your enemy it should work well, it just takes a sense of timing to use.
I can get behind nerfing the blunder in 1 specific way, that being it cant instantly kill you if you are at full health, they could do like a dark souls (at least i think thats the game that has done it) and make it so you cant instantly die if you have full health, but if you are missing a chip of health, then it possibly could.
To be honest, i think most blunder double gunners use it as a crutch and resort to eor if they miss a meat shot, the only double gunners i find to really be deadly are pistol eor users because they tend to have the accuracy of a god.
