This is kinda the problem with Sea of thieves at the moment the game almost as Grindy as GTAO and these long pushes people feel FORCED to do because the mode will likely be dead in a month is not healthy and it causes people to leave the game for extended periods of time sometimes for good. Its a massive problem that Rare should almost certainly address
Servants of the Flame and Guardians of Fortune leveling need to be significantly increased
@pumpa-cat
That's true, too. In general, people tend to ask for something more when it's easier to get. This is because it is easier to lower the condition by asking Rare to lower the condition than to achieve the condition by playing the game. I think if they lower the conditions to 70 levels, the rest will probably say 70 degrees is too high. That is clear.@papatankers2041 said in Servants of the Flame and Guardians of Fortune leveling need to be significantly increased:
As more people get bored/quit the queues take longer, and matchmaking suffers. I would also argue that as casuals leave, you are faced with more and more pvp "sweats". Therefore, it makes total sense that people were rushing to get it done because it's only going to get harder to accomplish as time goes on. Same issue happened with arena.
@toxie-will-kill said in Servants of the Flame and Guardians of Fortune leveling need to be significantly increased:
Sure, I'd buy that argument if some people got the gold curse after doing 5 runs each, and less good PvE players got it after 50 runs each while also getting stuck in 20-40 minute queues because the NPCs got bored.
@grog-minto said in Servants of the Flame and Guardians of Fortune leveling need to be significantly increased:
The problem is the reward structure before level 100. It doesnt give you anything meaningful before level 100. If they added decent rewards before level 100 then im sure casuals would be much happier grinding it out. Atleast they would feel they were making progress along the way.
The problem is not the grind itself. The problem is with the sbmm and people not getting actual fair fights where they could realistically get around 50% winratio.
Also I think that people calling the curses base curses devalues them. The curses are designed with alot more effort than any other curse in the game. I wont budge. I am happy they are decently hard to achieve.
@fretfulelk45403 said in Servants of the Flame and Guardians of Fortune leveling need to be significantly increased:
No, it is not given. Some achivments and commendations are designed to be a long term goal.
If you already got the level 100 and we are only at the start of the season I think it is not unfair to assume that if anything, the curse was rather easy to get.
Especially considering that you have rather low winratio.I get that people are scared and they are rushing everything as fast as possible, but rare has already made a post on how they are going to matchmaking times and that in theory should also help with SBMM.
You made a decision to put your health at risk so you could get it asap and ulitimately that is your body and your decision. But let's be honest here. Would it have changed alot for you if you got the curse few weeks later without stressing yourself out?
@papatankers2041 I think one of the biggest problems is the allegiance rewards for streaks. I think to many skilled players just lose on purpose a couple of times, so their SBMM is lower and they then can get a streak going since they match lower skilled players. This leaves average and below players very often facing very skilled players and therefore never being able to get a streak and often even lose. That also makes it so they hardly get any allegiance and therefore it will take an insane amount of time to get to level 100, since losing gives you almost no allegiance. Because of these issues it wouldn't surprise me lower skilled players would have about the same amount of grind to get to level 100 then the very skilled players who cheese allegiance this way have to getting to 1000.
You can wander why L-L-L-W-W-W would grant you way more allegiance then W-L-W-L-W-L, especially when that creates problem with cheesing and lower to average players to keep being put against way more skilled players because of that. I think they need to rethink that.
@super87ghost said in Servants of the Flame and Guardians of Fortune leveling need to be significantly increased:
This is partly true. Firstly I have no problem with your statement. I dont think streaks have place in sbmm.
But for someone like me who has not cheesed by loosing on purpose I quite often still have to battle very new players, leading me to believe that the sbmm is not giving fair matches due to cheese, but due to the fact that it was designed wrong in the first place. Im getting matches like that in the most active region in peak hours.
Im not sure how sot "modified elo" works, but I can say that basing elo mostly off of winratio is very bad design. There are more very vital factors to elo system. Maybe these factors are included, maybe not, I cannot say for sure.
@papatankers2041 a dit dans Servants of the Flame and Guardians of Fortune leveling need to be significantly increased :
If you already got the level 100 and we are only at the start of the season I think it is not unfair to assume that if anything, the curse was rather easy to get. Especially considering that you have rather low winratio.
It depends of the number of hours played and ship type. One month of gameplay don't mean much when you have some players sailing for 5 hours a day and others sailing for less than 10 hours a week. Not much to take from it either when queue times vary greatly between ship type. One hour of duo slooping will mean way more fights than on a Galleon.
Ultimately, it should depend on how much of the playerbase should realistically get to the curse and how fast. If we assume that a casual player (less than 10 hours of gameplay a week) with a 50% winrate would get to lvl 100 in 2 months (as it seems to be the moment), then it means that it takes 80h of dedicated grind without winstreak to get it while winning 50% of the time. That wouldn't strike me has rather easy to get for them.
Sure to people playing the game 5h a day, it would only take them only 16 days, to people with outlier winrates it would take even less.Imo the question we need to answer is : to how many players should it be really difficult to do and to how many should it be impossible in a reasonable time frame ?
@grog-minto said in Servants of the Flame and Guardians of Fortune leveling need to be significantly increased:
Fair assesment.
What in your opinion would be a reaosnable timeframe? I think multiple months for the most impressive curses in the game is perfectly reaonable considering some of the pve commendations.@papatankers2041 For the grade 1000 curses ? I honestly believe that this shouldn't be obtainable by casual players before veeeery long. Either you obtain it through amazing winrate or by playing an insane amount of time. Rare should definitely give something to the most dedicated part of its audience. I won't personally attempt this grind as I don't want to ignore the next year+ of content. I will still play with the hourglass when the general adventure feels stale tho (granting that the mode doesn't die out) but that won't be for the rewards.
The base curse at grade 100 ? I'd say that around 50 hours of gameplay (50% winrate, queue times included) each sounds about right (a bit more than 1 month of dedicated grind by curse for the most active casuals), it would still take more time to grind than the gold curse and is realistic for most dedicated casuals with a 50% winrate. It also offers the possibility for pvp novices to get better at it knowing that the grind after they catch up is manageable.
Honestly when people bring up how the curses shouldn’t be at 100, or that it should be easier to get to 100, etc… it makes me think of the Gold Guns of Overwatch.
If you’re familiar with the game you’ll know what I’m talking about, but basically to get Gold Guns you have to have 3000 comp points, then you can buy it. To get comp points you have to play comp, it’s the only way. If you’re bad at the game it will take you a LOT of matches to earn 3000 points for that Gold Gun, if you’re good at the game you can earn multiple Gold Guns in one season.
I find a lot of parallels of the Gold Gun in Overwatch as to the Base Curse in SoT, but people are complaining about the Base Curse because it doesn’t feel like it should be the equivalent of a “Gold Gun” and that it should be more like a “legendary skin” you can grind in quick play mode.
When I look at it from this perspective, I don’t think any changes to the system should be made. Base Curse should unlock after you’ve put in enough combat hours, less hours are needed if you are good at the game. It’s unfortunate for people who aren’t good at the game and for whatever reason can’t improve much, but it is the way the economy of PVP games work.
That said, I do think they should have given better rewards for the levels before 100. The titles and “upgradable figureheads” feel absolutely worthless. If they had given some low value, but unique cosmetics I think it would feel more rewarding… but the big issue is that the first meaningful reward is at level 100, which is meant to basically be a season’s worth of grinding. Not a session’s worth, not a weekend, not a week, not even a month.
The Base Curse was meant to take most of the season to get and then the Gold Curse was meant to take multiple seasons to get… and without meaningful rewards that are achievable after a few days of hard work… it feels defeating and impossible and unfair.
That’s not to mention the issues with the mode itself, which I know they are trying to fix ASAP. Grinding levels wouldn’t feel as impossible if queue times weren’t so long, if fights weren’t so long, if people didn’t run when they signed up to PvP! But I think they mentioned in the write up recently they are working on a way to get matches faster and make fights faster. Unfortunately we had the holidays comes along and that always slows down production. If not for that I feel like instead of saying they were making changes, they would have already made them… but that’s the nature of holidays and work schedules, so we need to be just a little bit patient.
@abjectarity If we are comparing SoT to Overwatch, then the golden guns have about the same value as the 1000 golden curses. How many players actually care about the golden guns? I do not. The guns also don't unlock additional content like the new part of Legend Hideout or Reaper basement. While we are comparing the games, how come that dedicated pvp game like overwatch is fun and rewards steady progression even to absolutely bad pvp players with no aim, while pvp in funny pirate PvPvE game called Sea of Thieves is anti-fun full of animation cancelling oneshot double-gunners, and rewards almost worthless progression (if you even get any), unless you are mlg pro-gamer with large streaks - and even for the best of players it takes large amount of played hours which doesn't leave much time doing other content - and that in the game where pvp is supposed to be almost side activity. The on demand pvp mode should be mainly fun to play and chill to progress in with no stakes, but instead its large time-eating swamp that has neither entertaining gameplay nor player-friendly progression.
@strawbrrygrl989 I agree, I would be ok if they made the post level 100 rewards more grindy to obtain but made the base curse and new area access easier for more casual players.
@arch-ideall there’s a reason I don’t enjoy PvP in SoT and avoid it for the most part(defense only). As much as they want it to be a PvP game, it’s not a very good one. If I feel like battling people, I do it in one of the multitude of decent PvP games…
But, I don’t care about ship v ship combat. It isn’t why I play this game, I like the visuals and I like the environment. It’s really unfortunate that SoT is one of the very few naval battle games that exists right now. So the people who just want to sink ships are sadly limited to mostly bad experiences.
@xxxmolzxxx Everything else in this game is possible to earn if you aren't good at it. This is something that would take a year, maybe more, at the current rate. It's something oriented towards streamers, despite being some of the most desired cosmetic options in the game. It should be oriented towards players, and it should actually feel rewarding and possible to get these if you just occasionally hop into pvp to break stuff up, because it seems like the point of the mode was to be something you could just quickly go into, have a bit of fun, and leave it. The rewards should be oriented towards that playstyle. Thinking otherwise is, quite frankly, a bit elitist here. Not only extremely skilled streamers should be able to get the cosmetics
@strawbrrygrl989 said in Servants of the Flame and Guardians of Fortune leveling need to be significantly increased:
Everything else in this game is possible to earn if you aren't good at it. This is something that would take a year, maybe more, at the current rate.
There's a guy on these forums who has been going into every match and intentionally losing and he was one of the first to get the skeleton curse. So no, it does not take more than a year even if you're bad at PvP.
Thinking otherwise is, quite frankly, a bit elitist here. Not only extremely skilled streamers should be able to get the cosmetics
You don't need to be an extremely skilled streamer to get these cosmetics, it's a time investment, not a skill investment. Skill just makes it a bit quicker.
The normal factions (Gold Hoarders, Reapers, Order of Souls, Merchant Alliance) they feel an actual progress because the levels are faster, and multiple levels can be achieved in one voyage. Do a lost shipments with an emmisary and you can get multiple levels of the faction, it start getting harder past level 40, but until then it feels the progress is rewarding. On top of that, they offer stuff like shovels, compass, watches, lanterns, and the whole ship set every 5 levels.
The allegiance sub factions are much slower from the start, and the things that give extra xp are lost after a single loss.
The allegiance sub factions also have a title every 10 levels and a figurehead every 20, and the figure heads are very similar one from the other. (Yes, Reapers have the same thing with the figure head, but at least they also offer cannons, and the rest of the ship set, and it goes every 5 levels like the other factions). Athena is one of the best when it feels the rewards, the ghost set is always 1 per level, so it feels like "just one more" and makes people exited to see what is next.@abjectarity
In fact, this game is much more suitable for PvE in the visual section. The graphic design itself is more casual, and the PvP system is very sloppy. There is a huge difference from a well-made PvP game. The PvP implemented by Sea of Thieves is not reasonable and is a stressor. I feel that the PvP system of Sea of Thieves is very sloppy because PvP is an additional system like Dark Soul. The cycle of the game itself is not fast. PvP itself is not fun. This is very true. In fact, there's only one case where PvP is fun in this game. It's fun when you step on a noob user who's not as good as me and repeat Spawn kill constantly. In fact, it's not fun when noob users are so exhausted that they sink the ship themselves, or when they don't come back from the ferryman's ship. In fact, it's not fun when noob users are so exhausted that they sink the ship themselves, or when they don't come back from the ferryman ship.@mferr11
As a matter of fact, the user does not continue to deliberately lose. By identifying a winning opponent, you have achieved 180 wins and over 70% of your total experience with PvP kills. He just finds an opponent he can beat and goes into matchmaking endlessly. It took a total of 80 hours@fretfulelk45403 said in Servants of the Flame and Guardians of Fortune leveling need to be significantly increased:
@abjectarity
In fact, this game is much more suitable for PvE in the visual section. The graphic design itself is more casual, and the PvP system is very sloppy. There is a huge difference from a well-made PvP game. The PvP implemented by Sea of Thieves is not reasonable and is a stressor. I feel that the PvP system of Sea of Thieves is very sloppy because PvP is an additional system like Dark Soul. The cycle of the game itself is not fast. PvP itself is not fun. This is very true. In fact, there's only one case where PvP is fun in this game. It's fun when you step on a noob user who's not as good as me and repeat Spawn kill constantly. In fact, it's not fun when noob users are so exhausted that they sink the ship themselves, or when they don't come back from the ferryman's ship. In fact, it's not fun when noob users are so exhausted that they sink the ship themselves, or when they don't come back from the ferryman ship.But that’s just your opinion of the PvP. I enjoy the PvP side of the game, even though I’m dog at it. In fact I don’t even consider myself a PvP player, yet I still enjoy it. To say PvP is sloppy is not correct in my opinion. I find it good.
@mferr11
As a matter of fact, the user does not continue to deliberately lose. By identifying a winning opponent, He have achieved 180 wins and over 70% of His total experience with PvP kills. He just finds an opponent he can beat and goes into matchmaking endlessly. It took a total of 80 hours@arch-ideall
That's actually why I'm saying Sea of Thieves' PvP is sloppy. Most of what we do is we use a lot of animation cancellations and bugs. And new users or noob users don't know about this. There are dozens of reasons to say that turning with anchors, dragging harpoon boats onto land, hit reg problems, matchmaking time and MMR are not working properly and are sloppy. The question of whether or not this will be fixed later is not a measure for the present. Discussing the current system, there was no official statement to fix it later.@fretfulelk45403 not sure why everyone keeps blaming Rare for matchmaking times when people are queuing at 2am and people are sleeping. Also it’s the fact that the sweaty pvpers are playing and people are just not playing hourglass right now. You are complaining about cancellations like what? I have never had a problem anchor turning my ship, harpoon rowboats are not designed to be on islands lol, and yes sbmm is messed up, but give it time for the data to collect and put people where they belong based off w/l ratio.
@isaktig a dit dans Servants of the Flame and Guardians of Fortune leveling need to be significantly increased :
and yes sbmm is messed up, but give it time for the data to collect and put people where they belong based off w/l ratio.
It takes a bit more than a hundred games for any Elo/glicko system to get you to a very low RD (starts a 350, after 130ish games you should be at 30-60).
The sbmm should already be working for the most part. The problem is low population (arguably due to stamps).
Did they state this? Elo usually starts at 1500. I've never heard of the glicko system, I've got to look it up.
@lordqulex the RD is the rating deviation. The higher it is, the less the system is sure about your true rating.
Take Chesscom for instance. You start at a given rating (1200) and a RD of 350, which mean that the system is reasonably sure that you should be rated between 1550 and 850 (and statistically it's generally the case since most of their playerbase is in that segment).
Can we all just sit back and take a puff on our inhalers? SBMM and other issues will be fixed… in time. If the mode is upsetting take a step back for a bit and go back to PVE a while or adventure shenanigans or whatever else you like.
I am a flaming dumpster fire of a pvper right now. I have played very little hourglass and I have already gotten to level 20 in each. (Mostly because I play with different people or solo and choose whichever faction accordingly.) I get murder hobo’d pretty consistently but I just play HG in chunks. When I get tired of it I do something else. No reason to try to blast your way through all the content immediately. The game mode will get better as updates roll in and it will get more and more enjoyable. Why grind so hard while it’s still in the beginning phases if you hate it so much?
I do not think it should be made easier whatsoever. PL grind was so extremely easy the title “Pirate Legend” means nothing anymore. Let the curses remain meaningful. If you absolutely must be a skeleton right this instant just buy the emporium costume. If your response is that the curse skeleton is cooler give it a week or two of wearing it and it won’t be that cool anymore either. If you actually earn it though I promise it’ll hold the “cool factor” longer.
All that being said I have noticed huge strides in my skill level in HG matches. That’s what makes it fun for me. I’m so glad Rare came up with this mode so we could get a chance to jump into the fray and get for experience doing PvP! Sure, it’s not perfect but I don’t expect it to be.
There is no doubt in my mind that one of two situations happens;
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Season 8 isn't improved enough to maintain a playerbase and rare abandons the mode similarly to how they entirely abandoned Season 5 and Arena.
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Season 8 isn't improved enough to maintain a playerbase and rare significantly lowers the difficulty of levelling so that people can unlock everything incredibly quick and stop complaining about it, in turn annoying everyone who grinded for it initially.
This to say that I think with how Season 8 released I don't see a positive outcome in the log run. The best possible outcome; which I believe to be practically impossible at this point is;
- Season 8 is improved quickly enough to maintain a playerbase before the seasonal structure playerbase drop-off occurs and destroys the mode.
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The question is if anyone even wants the Season 8 to be improved. You can easily just excuse it that players don't want to do pvp - which is kind of true. But there are also many players like me, who don't have issue as much with the pvp grind itself, as with the difference of progression when you are winning all the fights quickly, or losing all fights slowly. Technically it isn't even needed to make it easier, what's mainly needed is reworked progression that would reward time spent doing on demand pvp at similar pace for both bad and good pvp players alike. This one change alone would improve the experience significantly.
@arch-ideall said in Servants of the Flame and Guardians of Fortune leveling need to be significantly increased:
The question is if anyone even wants the Season 8 to be improved. You can easily just excuse it that players don't want to do pvp - which is kind of true. But there are also many players like me, who don't have issue as much with the pvp grind itself, as with the difference of progression when you are winning all the fights quickly, or losing all fights slowly. Technically it isn't even needed to make it easier, what's mainly needed is reworked progression that would reward time spent doing on demand pvp at similar pace for both bad and good pvp players alike. This one change alone would improve the experience significantly.
I want season 8 improved! I love the game and will happily take any improvement I can get. The challenge is everyone has a different definition of improvement. 🤣
I love your idea of reworking the progression to being time invested so everyone progresses at a decent minimum level, but I see nothing wrong with rewarding winning. The problem is they're rewarding winning exclusively so defending treasure isn't worth the time investment at all. Even something as simple as winning equals 2/3 a level and losing 1/4 of a level would be a vast improvement. Adding your faction treasury bonus to a loss would be the buttercream icing on the cake.
And as a joke, give us the current loss' allegiance reward every minute spent in the tunnels. 🤣
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