@ogron2358 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
I have the curse. I did put in a lot of hours, but its only been a couple of weeks.
(Maybe slightly off topic but Idk)
How many sinks did it take you, and what was your longest streak/ strategy for allegiance gain? Just asking for my personal curiosity
180-190 sinks for me, tried to get to 105 though. And no i didn't have fun. The allegiance gain, even as a champion, is abysmal. Opponents that either use aim hacks or exploits were thankfully not the majority. However, we either faced poor guys who didn't know what to do or opponents that were boss level. Buying supplies again after every sink, spawning in an area where you either have a thick fog, storm or several kegs floating around, enemies that are in an alliance or random ships thinking they have to join the fight for some reason, bugs, unbalanced matchmaking and queue times and the miniscule allegiance gain are the factors that make this mode not enjoyable. The allegiance gain however is one of the most important issues for me. A win before Guardian status should atleast give half of a level while as a Guardian you get 1 level per win. At the moment there's no high risk high reward, more like high risk low reward.
@shenlongkazama said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
180-190 sinks for me, tried to get to 105 though. And no i didn't have fun. The allegiance gain, even as a champion, is abysmal. Opponents that either use aim hacks or exploits were thankfully not the majority. However, we either faced poor guys who didn't know what to do or opponents that were boss level. Buying supplies again after every sink, spawning in an area where you either have a thick fog, storm or several kegs floating around, enemies that are in an alliance or random ships thinking they have to join the fight for some reason, bugs, unbalanced matchmaking and queue times and the miniscule allegiance gain are the factors that make this mode not enjoyable. The allegiance gain however is one of the most important issues for me. A win before Guardian status should atleast give half of a level while as a Guardian you get 1 level per win. At the moment there's no high risk high reward, more like high risk low reward.
I totally agree. Look, I don't have much time in my hands, seriously, I can barely play sometimes. I can't dedicate hours each day in hopes to unlock something in the next months. I can't stay inside the game for too long. The allegiance gain is so small that it doesn't feel rewarding.
The responses I get are: "Earn the curse" "Grind it" "It's meant to be a trophy" "It's a long term goal" "It's supposed to be hard". I get it, I shouldn't unlock it by just logging in, but the grind shouldn't be this hard for an average player who has limited time each week. Also, why is it supposed to be a grind? Why choose the ghost and skeleton curse to be grind? Why did the developers decided to choose those for this? Why is this grind the only way to obtain them?
I bet some players will come and tell me "It's supposed to be a trophy earned behind the PvP". Ok, why? Why eaxctly those? And why PvP exclusive? What is the reason? What is the motive? Seriously, why? And will players keep using this mode after they reach 1000? How many do it because they enjoy this PvP mechanic, and how many do it just because they want the reward?
You know what else is hard? Life. What's also time-limited? You. So why can't a game, that's meant to be entertainment and enjoyable, just be fun. If you are in the ground your ''achievements'' in a video game don't matter. People wanna have fun, not get stressed out. The people at Rare who work on the game, go through mean and toxic posts and still have fun and have a life outside and continue. THAT'S an achievement. Sorry for the ''philosophical'' text.
@shenlongkazama You're totally right. And in fact a philosophical text is exactly what I needed today. You see, I decided to go into the PvP grind once more, and farm losses, because multiple quick losses can give more xp than a single win after a long and hard battle. Doesn't matter if you sunk in the first 30 seconds, or your ship survived 2 hours before losing, the xp gain seems to be the same. Yeah, it's a shame that the system has so many flaws, and yet some players defend it. Sea of Thieves is already a game where a game session can take a long time. The time of an individual is limited, and the matchmaking definately not helps. Then a battle gives very little xp. I can't believe that it takes so much time, and be fully invested in the game in order to achieve that goal.
Again, I ask, why must the curses be trophies? Why can't they just be simple cosmetics that people use because it looks cool? Why must it have a deeper meaning? Why can't Athena and Flameheart give the same reward for a different task but it also helps their cause? Why must it be PvP exclusive? What's wrong with someone else having the same cosmetic? Why for some people is not enough to have something, others should not have it? If people would get the Hungering One figurehead, or the Drum, I wouldn't mind, in fact I would be glad that other can see for themselves and use these cool cosmetics now. I really wouldn't be bothered, and I don't need a compensation, I would already had my reward which was early access to it. For me it is just a megalodon figurehead, and a drum with bones, I don't find deeper meaning in them.
190ish sinks. I started by trying for 4 streaks, but I would lose them, so I switched to 2 streaks. I play on central and west coast servers, but west coast seemed to always have long queue times. Strategy was just to play as many as possible and not get stuck in long fights. I would only supply up if I got a streak, but most of the time I would just go with the base supplies on my boat. If I ran out of supplies, I would try for a board play and either get lucky and end the match or sink to end the match. I played all ship types depending on which friends where on, but more than half of it was solo sloop. I was able to get a 10 streak once on brig, when we were on west coast and the same few boats were matching with us over and over that were not very good. We found that on brig/galley, there isn't a huge pool of players, so if you started getting really sweaty people, you could try having another member in a different time zone start the ship up to see who is queuing in that time zone. In general, we found west coast to be long queue times, but easy fights. Central seemed to be faster queue times, but all skill levels (dont hate on me, just an observation, maybe it was because of when we played). I lost a lot, said ggs a lot, got frustrated with people occasionally. Hopefully that helps.
@valor-omega no now there is 5 "you just followed a guide get gud" curses in the game, no one is going to think they are in anyway good or special, might as well call them loser curses for how impressive they are
@ogron2358 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
but what I was saying is that in general, people do care. If they just gave you all the cosmetics when you signed in day 1, no one would play this game.
I will start with this chunk first, no one, I swear to god no one in these forums let alone this thread asked to unlock anything regarding the new curses at level 1, if you've read the title of this thread it says "Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels" and that in no way concludes that the BASE CURSES are suggested to be unlocked at level 1, because all the pro grind folks that I have bumped into in these forums always jump into this conclusion whenever anyone suggests to make things respect the player's time more,
I am not sure what other games you are familiar with, but in all other games that I can think of, rare + cool = desired. If they want their pvp mode to be successful, they need to entice people to keep playing it, including me. I will grind it because these curses are rare and cool.
What you're saying is true, but the base curses shouldn't be rare to begin with, they should be accessible to players after a while of progression ofcorse, but surly not after 200hrs+ of grind for each base curse (I will write my numbers for you at the bottom of this post), a couple of examples for PvP games that I have played (CoD MW 1 and 2, Dead by daylight and Hunt Showdown) and all of these games reward their players for their contributions in their matches regardless of they win or lose, did any of these games lose their players base because these games respect their player's time? the answer is NO, on the contrary, players still play them more to this day.
If you take the rewards out and give them out just for some easy participation, then a good chunk of the players stop doing the mode which will hurt it.
The word "Make it EASIER" doesn't necessarily mean make it EASY, because the current difficulty of getting to level 100 is obnoxiously difficult for the average active player that wins 50% of their matches, so there is a HUGE SPECTRUM OF DIFFICULTY that Rare can mingle through between OBNOXIOUSLY DIFFICULT and EASY, it can be medium or hard, I wouldn't mind that and that wouldn't stop players from doing the current pvp mode, another note for you the current difficulty is already hurting the pvp mode, because more and more people are realising that its not worth their time and less people will queue for it, resulting in longer queue times for anyone that uses it, eventually spiralling to its demise.
I understand that there are different playstyles. I am just saying that they need to cater to multiple playstyles to make the game more active. They need some pvp grinds with really cool rewards (arena legendary weapons, then the curses), they need pve grinds for the people that grind hard (gold curse, ancient vault sails, ancient cutlass), they need easy stuff for people that don't have a ton of time but still want some cool rewards (season pass, ashen curse). The list goes on. What I was trying to establish is that your playstyle is not the ONLY playstyle, and this is something that is good for the game.
Fair argument, there is only one flaw to it, locking something that EVERY ONE wants behind HARD GRINDING ONE PLAYSTYLE is not acceptable, if the base curses would take about 50 hrs of pvp time for each that would be ok, and you can leave the prestigious gold ghost and golden skeleton curses for 1000 hrs and no one would care.
You don't have to participate in all the playstyles if you don't want to, or you can try, and eventually you will get better and get it.
Honestly, I am capable of sinking brigs and galleons while solo slooping, and I can go toe to toe with the sweats of this game, however long naval battles reward you with the same amount of Allegiance rep as short battles, heck if you sink a new player it will give you the same rep as you sunk a sweatlord, the game doesn't reward your skill or time put into it at all.
Or you can try to do it the PVE way by turning in flags you find (there is a PVE way to do it, but it shouldn't be very fast).
I am a fulltime reaper, I hope this gives you a hint on how fast I can level my allegiance by selling PVE flags.
What they should not do is add ways for you to get it by bucketing, shooting, etc. because it will flood the queues with people that are not playing. This is what ruins the game, this really hurt arena as well.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement, I will give you an easy example, in CoD, you are rewarded more XP for getting headshots, killing some one at a long distance, defending a place, attacking a place regardless of you win or lose, how you contributed to the match is reflected on your progression and that is rewarding and that doesn't hurt the game at all, more will play it because they feel like their time put in it is rewarded. (easy equivallent of those is, more rep for hitting cannon shots, breaking the mast, killing enemy player, fixing your ship ... etc)
Also what I was saying is that if they are the two most requested cosmetics, there are 'B' versions available. There is a skeleton from the shop, and they heard people complaining that they missed the athena ghost curse from season 1, so they added it in the store in the legends hideout.
The good thing about the skeleton curse, is that you can customize it, the one in the store you can't because its a costume which is kinda lame, and as for the legendary curse in the store in the legends hideout, you need to get to Allegiance with athena 105, so you still have to grind to 100 to get it.
I also understand that you really want these, and you do not feel like they are in your reach. I am trying to voice my opinion because I don't want Rare to change it, also I want to explain that there are ways for you to do it, mostly just trying. I lose all the time, I have the curse. I did put in a lot of hours, but its only been a couple of weeks. I am not an insane sweat. I don't know how to weapon switch effectively, I miss shots all the time, etc. I am trying to tell you that you can do it. Just stop giving up when you lose, keep trying, keep looking for improvement, keep practicing, and you will start wining a certain percentage of your matches and it will begin to feel obtainable. If everyone that thinks like you would hop in queues and try, you would have lots of people at your skill level and have good matches. The problem is that there is a huge player base in SOT that just gives up, that doesn't fight for their treasure, that doesn't try to push and become a more skilled player. If that is the case, I don't think those players deserve to rock the curse, sorry.
well as you've said it, alot of players give up, why? because its too grindy, and I will share my numbers with you now, since the start of this update I have played the new pvp game mode for about 130 hours, I am at level 69 servants of the flame, I sunk 107 ships and I got sunk 190 times (I was loss farming for a while because long battles are very boring and not worth my time), basically if a battle takes more than 5-10 mins I just let them sink me and go look for another player thats interested in a fight rather than running around or hoarding infinite supplies.
1 sink gives me about 25% of the current level (this is how it behaves from 60 to 100) So I need to sink 4 ships per level, multiply 4 by 31 = 124 which is more than double the time that I have already put, so an average player needs 124+107= 231 ship sinks to get to 100?! (HitboTC, a content creator, his skill is a bit above the average player and he did it at 195 sinks), and that is what is driving people away from the new game mode, is that they are required to put in 200+ hrs of only one game mode to unlock just 1 base curse and that is TOO MUCH TO ASK your average player to do.
Man the more I read this the more it seems like you got burnt out by the game.
Why complaining about the mode if you got stressed by the time you had to spend to get a reward as soon as possible while you could just have taken your time and get the same reward in a little bit more time while having fun doing it?
I’m level 30 as now with almost 50 battles completed. The mode is going to stay so why rushing it? I just fight when I enjoy it and when I’ve got enough mental strength and will to do so (work can strain you out…).
Everyone is complaining about the new game mode which is what this game needed to end the endless chases and leave PVE players doing their stuff alone and not disturbed most of the time.
Guys, for real, you’re attitude is negative towards the game and I hope it’s not the same towards life in general.
Just take a breath and enjoy….
@mewds-d-jolly said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@ogron2358 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
but what I was saying is that in general, people do care. If they just gave you all the cosmetics when you signed in day 1, no one would play this game.
I will start with this chunk first, no one, I swear to god no one in these forums let alone this thread asked to unlock anything regarding the new curses at level 1, if you've read the title of this thread it says "Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels" and that in no way concludes that the BASE CURSES are suggested to be unlocked at level 1, because all the pro grind folks that I have bumped into in these forums always jump into this conclusion whenever anyone suggests to make things respect the player's time more,
I am not sure what other games you are familiar with, but in all other games that I can think of, rare + cool = desired. If they want their pvp mode to be successful, they need to entice people to keep playing it, including me. I will grind it because these curses are rare and cool.
What you're saying is true, but the base curses shouldn't be rare to begin with, they should be accessible to players after a while of progression ofcorse, but surly not after 200hrs+ of grind for each base curse (I will write my numbers for you at the bottom of this post), a couple of examples for PvP games that I have played (CoD MW 1 and 2, Dead by daylight and Hunt Showdown) and all of these games reward their players for their contributions in their matches regardless of they win or lose, did any of these games lose their players base because these games respect their player's time? the answer is NO, on the contrary, players still play them more to this day.
If you take the rewards out and give them out just for some easy participation, then a good chunk of the players stop doing the mode which will hurt it.
The word "Make it EASIER" doesn't necessarily mean make it EASY, because the current difficulty of getting to level 100 is obnoxiously difficult for the average active player that wins 50% of their matches, so there is a HUGE SPECTRUM OF DIFFICULTY that Rare can mingle through between OBNOXIOUSLY DIFFICULT and EASY, it can be medium or hard, I wouldn't mind that and that wouldn't stop players from doing the current pvp mode, another note for you the current difficulty is already hurting the pvp mode, because more and more people are realising that its not worth their time and less people will queue for it, resulting in longer queue times for anyone that uses it, eventually spiralling to its demise.
I understand that there are different playstyles. I am just saying that they need to cater to multiple playstyles to make the game more active. They need some pvp grinds with really cool rewards (arena legendary weapons, then the curses), they need pve grinds for the people that grind hard (gold curse, ancient vault sails, ancient cutlass), they need easy stuff for people that don't have a ton of time but still want some cool rewards (season pass, ashen curse). The list goes on. What I was trying to establish is that your playstyle is not the ONLY playstyle, and this is something that is good for the game.
Fair argument, there is only one flaw to it, locking something that EVERY ONE wants behind HARD GRINDING ONE PLAYSTYLE is not acceptable, if the base curses would take about 50 hrs of pvp time for each that would be ok, and you can leave the prestigious gold ghost and golden skeleton curses for 1000 hrs and no one would care.
You don't have to participate in all the playstyles if you don't want to, or you can try, and eventually you will get better and get it.
Honestly, I am capable of sinking brigs and galleons while solo slooping, and I can go toe to toe with the sweats of this game, however long naval battles reward you with the same amount of Allegiance rep as short battles, heck if you sink a new player it will give you the same rep as you sunk a sweatlord, the game doesn't reward your skill or time put into it at all.
Or you can try to do it the PVE way by turning in flags you find (there is a PVE way to do it, but it shouldn't be very fast).
I am a fulltime reaper, I hope this gives you a hint on how fast I can level my allegiance by selling PVE flags.
What they should not do is add ways for you to get it by bucketing, shooting, etc. because it will flood the queues with people that are not playing. This is what ruins the game, this really hurt arena as well.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement, I will give you an easy example, in CoD, you are rewarded more XP for getting headshots, killing some one at a long distance, defending a place, attacking a place regardless of you win or lose, how you contributed to the match is reflected on your progression and that is rewarding and that doesn't hurt the game at all, more will play it because they feel like their time put in it is rewarded. (easy equivallent of those is, more rep for hitting cannon shots, breaking the mast, killing enemy player, fixing your ship ... etc)
Also what I was saying is that if they are the two most requested cosmetics, there are 'B' versions available. There is a skeleton from the shop, and they heard people complaining that they missed the athena ghost curse from season 1, so they added it in the store in the legends hideout.
The good thing about the skeleton curse, is that you can customize it, the one in the store you can't because its a costume which is kinda lame, and as for the legendary curse in the store in the legends hideout, you need to get to Allegiance with athena 105, so you still have to grind to 100 to get it.
I also understand that you really want these, and you do not feel like they are in your reach. I am trying to voice my opinion because I don't want Rare to change it, also I want to explain that there are ways for you to do it, mostly just trying. I lose all the time, I have the curse. I did put in a lot of hours, but its only been a couple of weeks. I am not an insane sweat. I don't know how to weapon switch effectively, I miss shots all the time, etc. I am trying to tell you that you can do it. Just stop giving up when you lose, keep trying, keep looking for improvement, keep practicing, and you will start wining a certain percentage of your matches and it will begin to feel obtainable. If everyone that thinks like you would hop in queues and try, you would have lots of people at your skill level and have good matches. The problem is that there is a huge player base in SOT that just gives up, that doesn't fight for their treasure, that doesn't try to push and become a more skilled player. If that is the case, I don't think those players deserve to rock the curse, sorry.
well as you've said it, alot of players give up, why? because its too grindy, and I will share my numbers with you now, since the start of this update I have played the new pvp game mode for about 130 hours, I am at level 69 servants of the flame, I sunk 107 ships and I got sunk 190 times (I was loss farming for a while because long battles are very boring and not worth my time), basically if a battle takes more than 5-10 mins I just let them sink me and go look for another player thats interested in a fight rather than running around or hoarding infinite supplies.
1 sink gives me about 25% of the current level (this is how it behaves from 60 to 100) So I need to sink 4 ships per level, multiply 4 by 31 = 124 which is more than double the time that I have already put, so an average player needs 124+107= 231 ship sinks to get to 100?! (HitboTC, a content creator, his skill is a bit above the average player and he did it at 195 sinks), and that is what is driving people away from the new game mode, is that they are required to put in 200+ hrs of only one game mode to unlock just 1 base curse and that is TOO MUCH TO ASK your average player to do.
Me getting my skeleton curse at 80 hours while giving away 75% of that grind to other players. It's 30-40 hours if you are actually good and fight for the wins, as I'm at 85 with Guardians at 30 hours of actually fighting this time around.
The base curses are easy to get. The cosmetics are a fun thing to play casually for. The 1000 is for the long haul players as we have everything else pretty much unlocked.
The biggest problem is queue times still bugging out. That is what's extending things. Plus players getting rolled cause there isn't any match making really.
Exactly, that's it. I have nothing against PVP. But, when I see someone who can PVP use silent boarding just as an example, it screams glitch use and that should be punished just like teaming and red sea glitch! But no one wants to hear that and see how you might get a YellowBeard or Redbeard for multiple reporting. I can understand the hunger for PVP content, but then please with a reasonable MMR system and clear glitch punishment! To the point that it should be content that doesn't go through in a week, ok. Why is it that only the PVPers and Hardcore have the basic curses and are in some cases close to level 1000? So Season 7 was not really good, but sooner or later, if nothing is changed, Season 8 will join it. Since only 2-3% of the total players of SoT currently enjoy the content of Season 8! And that alone should make you think!
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
@mouse-n-keybord said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
Me getting my skeleton curse at 80 hours while giving away 75% of that grind to other players. It's 30-40 hours if you are actually good and fight for the wins, as I'm at 85 with Guardians at 30 hours of actually fighting this time around.
The base curses are easy to get. The cosmetics are a fun thing to play casually for. The 1000 is for the long haul players as we have everything else pretty much unlocked.
The biggest problem is queue times still bugging out. That is what's extending things. Plus players getting rolled cause there isn't any match making really.
I honestly don't know how you got past 100 by sinking your self 75% of the time, I kept trying to do so and its still time consuming, it takes about 5 minutes for me to sink and get back to another match, and right now I would get around 3% of a level per sink. this means that I need 34 sinks to get a level 34 x 5 = 170 minutes, which is approximately 3 hrs to get a level, your method is even more inefficient than mine I am sorry to say that, so again tbh I have no idea how did you get past level 100.
Edit: maybe you did GRIND losses A LOT I guess :D (but for someone with my schedule I still can't do what you did, I can only play for around 4hrs max a day only)
oh and one more thing, loss farming is something me and you can do as hardcore fans of this game, but you can't ask normal and new players to do the same, and if you're going to reply with disregard those players then this game mode is going to end up with even longer queue times, because those players could have filled in the gaps in the queue.
I would just add that caring how making on demand pvp more rewarding (thous making it easier to get base curse) will end with folks cheesing is dead end thinking.
Like how much % will farm only looses? 5%? And how much folks will or allready drop the mode or game from frustation? I dont know but i would bet 5 dubloons it's circa 40% of folks that started it. Do your math - what will affect more mode. Small % of cheddar fans or no players?
Everybody who enjoy pvp in that mode should be considering first healthy playerbase or else we all end with dead mode and empty seas.
Make it 1 sink = 1 lvl up to 100.
Lose = 1/4 of lvl.
Make it 2 sinks = 1 lvl up to 200m
Lose = 1/4 of lvl still.
And whaterver you want above.
This mode should reward folks that joining the fight.
Spending as adult 30 min fight (with resupply and que its 45 min like 1/3 of my playtime in good day) to get nothing or near nothing is making me and other folks leave.
Talking about geting it in months is laughable couse in that state pvp will be dead in months.
@gaezoso dijo en Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
Man the more I read this the more it seems like you got burnt out by the game.
Why complaining about the mode if you got stressed by the time you had to spend to get a reward as soon as possible while you could just have taken your time and get the same reward in a little bit more time while having fun doing it?
I’m level 30 as now with almost 50 battles completed. The mode is going to stay so why rushing it? I just fight when I enjoy it and when I’ve got enough mental strength and will to do so (work can strain you out…).
Everyone is complaining about the new game mode which is what this game needed to end the endless chases and leave PVE players doing their stuff alone and not disturbed most of the time.
Guys, for real, you’re attitude is negative towards the game and I hope it’s not the same towards life in general.
Just take a breath and enjoy….
Because I am not having fun doing it. I am not enjoying the journey. And I'm quite sure others will say "Then don't do it" and I indeed stopped doing it and I keep voicing my opinion about this system that has this as the only method of obtaining the curses.
I am aware that the mode is here to stay, and as I said I don't ask to have the reward just by login in at day 1, what I would like is to have achieved my objective within a reasonable time, but it seems it will take a long time for someone like me who can't stay invested in the game constantly every day.
The game mode will stay as a permanent addition, but how do I know that queue times will not become extremely long in the future? The game mode may not be erased, but unlike buried treasures I require an adversary to progress. On the bright side the game mode is easily found because every ship has an hourglass in the same place everyone asks for voyages, so hopefully you are right and the game mode will stay active for months and years to come.
I apologize if any of what I said sounded rude, because text can be easily midunderstood due to the lack of voice sounds and the intention of my words may be interpreted in yhe worst way possible. I, like any other player here, am simply voicing my opinion in hopes that the developers consider a solution that cam make everyone happy.
@dragotech123 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@gaezoso dijo en Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
Man the more I read this the more it seems like you got burnt out by the game.
Why complaining about the mode if you got stressed by the time you had to spend to get a reward as soon as possible while you could just have taken your time and get the same reward in a little bit more time while having fun doing it?
I’m level 30 as now with almost 50 battles completed. The mode is going to stay so why rushing it? I just fight when I enjoy it and when I’ve got enough mental strength and will to do so (work can strain you out…).
Everyone is complaining about the new game mode which is what this game needed to end the endless chases and leave PVE players doing their stuff alone and not disturbed most of the time.
Guys, for real, you’re attitude is negative towards the game and I hope it’s not the same towards life in general.
Just take a breath and enjoy….
Because I am not having fun doing it. I am not enjoying the journey. And I'm quite sure others will say "Then don't do it" and I indeed stopped doing it and I keep voicing my opinion about this system that has this as the only method of obtaining the curses.
I am aware that the mode is here to stay, and as I said I don't ask to have the reward just by login in at day 1, what I would like is to have achieved my objective within a reasonable time, but it seems it will take a long time for someone like me who can't stay invested in the game constantly every day.
The game mode will stay as a permanent addition, but how do I know that queue times will not become extremely long in the future? The game mode may not be erased, but unlike buried treasures I require an adversary to progress. On the bright side the game mode is easily found because every ship has an hourglass in the same place everyone asks for voyages, so hopefully you are right and the game mode will stay active for months and years to come.
I apologize if any of what I said sounded rude, because text can be easily midunderstood due to the lack of voice sounds and the intention of my words may be interpreted in yhe worst way possible. I, like any other player here, am simply voicing my opinion in hopes that the developers consider a solution that cam make everyone happy.
No worries man. you did nothing wrong, we're all frustrated by the current situation, and honestly he (gaezoso) was kind of offensive, I am assuming that's why Jolaton (the moderator) dropped his reminder.
@dragotech123
That's an accurate point. Because all PvP games absolutely require a population count, PvP games cannot exist if they are underpopulated. If there's only a system and there's no user, it's creating the same situation as the previous arena once again. What I'm explaining now is not that the arena is good or bad, but that the same thing happens once more because it has the same problems and conditions. Previously, I saw a person here saying that even if only PvP-loving users enjoy PvP on demand, there will be no problem with matchmaking, and this will be different from Arena, and that it will go well until next year. I still didn't agree with that opinion. It's because there's already a problem with matchmaking time. Eventually, hardcore streamer MixelPlx also admitted there was a problem with matchmaking time.
@grumpyw01f said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
If someone dislikes PvP, by all means, they can be bored by this update. But they shouldn't complain and say that level 100 needs to be easier. After all, this update wasn't made for them. Or, at least, it was made to turn them into a player that enjoys PvP.
There are two things regarding this comment, this is a thread made in the feedback and suggestions section of the forums, if you don't like what you read don't assume that its complaints, this is our feedback and you should respect it as we do respect others opinions on the matter, you have no right to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't complain or give feedback on, and secondly again, if you don't care about the rest of the player base which is 98% of the players YOU ARE GOING TO ENJOY HELLA QUEUE TIMES, because your so called update turned the players AWAY from PvP rather than towards it, and eventually you're going to kiss your beloved game mode goodbye.
If I ever manage to get the curses I am not going to show it off. I will keep playing as I always do, avoiding other ships and go on my business. I want to look good for myself, and I don't care what others think about the cosmetics I wear. I use the Ashen curse for that reason, it's cool, it glows, a ribcage shown by the heart of fire. I don't care how easy it is to get, I think it is cool.
Even the base curse is hard to get for casuals, the base one. Why the base curse is also a trophy? Isn't having the golden one enough to be a trophy?
In 2018 I used to play a lot, and wanted to get to pirate legend, eventually I left and moves to other games because I saw I was doing the same things over and over and I still wasn't there. This year, in May, I decided to come back to see how much the game changed, and that made the journey more enjoyable, emmisaries that can boost things a lot, more ways to gather loot than the skeleton forts, new mechanics that make things easier to achieve your goal or do creative plays. So, yeah, I am not enjoying it now, but perhaps I will in the future if the system has add-ons to make it more enjoyable.
@grumpyw01f The game mode not being rewarding is the main issue. It's grind because it takes many hours even for players who like PvP and are good at PvP, while taking whole eternity for players who dislike PvP and are bad at PvP. SoT has one of the worst character combat systems of online games. It's hard to enjoy something that depends on macros, animation cancelling and poor hit registration. Playing the game mode normaly is not possible when the only difference your effort makes is losing in 30 minutes instead of 3 minutes. Even worse, trying to do battles increases the risk of being sailed out of bounds and getting nothing. PvE players want the curses so that they can use them while doing PvE content which means avoiding other crews - showing off is weird PvP player urge. The mode is more likely to make even players who do not mind PvP being disgusted by PvP. I've seen plenty people who sink others regularly falling into despair when they face how much the progression is bad during loss streaks. Forcing anyone to do something they dislike is just gonna decrease the numbers of active players which is never good idea. You can enjoy the golden skeleton curse. Most people are not gonna bother playing the mode after or if they get the lvl 100-200 rewards so you can be unique plenty.
@grumpyw01f
I got my on 2019 and im playing for long time.
Pleace consider that for leveling up each faction was allways other kind of activity - it made it more intresting that siting underwater whole time.
I think that 100 sinks for base curse is enough learnig curve in pvp to be meaningfull.
@ghutar
Now most users have fallen to death because the curve is too steep, and it's taking a long time to match the on-demand PvP because it doesn't come into the game
@fretfulelk45403
Im on solo sloop so matchmaking for today EU it was circa 5 minutes.
But i think with that reward rate that solo world will die off too.
I think that asking for 100 wins or 400 losses to base curse is fair price - as long the mode will retain healthyplayer base and matchmaking give you chance to get like 10 battles per gaming day (2-3h of playing).
But to achive that we need bigger playerbase i don't know what other than better rewards would bring folks back.
@ghutar
Europe and North America are getting caught pretty fast. However, the problem is that it is being delayed in other countries. I think there are a number of ways to bring people in. Making the existing level 100 easy may not be the answer. In this case, it is because it makes the people who have tried in the past useless. I respect them. I think it would be good if you could support not only figurehead but also ships cosmatic before level 100.
@fretfulelk45403 i can't agree with that argumentation, making whole experience more rewarding is needed couse spending half hour of fight only for almost nothing is just bad expirience.
For folks who allready goten their curse i remeber how much boring grind was geting PL in 2018-2019 and im happy that other can experience they way up to PL better. I think for them it's good to have some proper playerbase in matchmaking pool if they are going for 200 and 1000 lvl.
@fretfulelk45403 I have got an idea to fill in the gaps for arena why not just add an mpc's they're pretty much the same as the cheetahs Just increase the Difficulty level So it wouldn't make a difference Then people aren't waiting for too long for battles And everyone gets levels everybody wins And it's not too Hard And also the MP c's don't run away so it doesn't take long And before you say anything I know it's APVE thing but it's to make it better So you don't have to wait for too long And it'll still be hard Plus sooner or later there's gonna be less and less people and it's gonna get harder and harder To find People This could be the only option To fill in the gaps
@mewds-d-jolly said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@mouse-n-keybord said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
Me getting my skeleton curse at 80 hours while giving away 75% of that grind to other players. It's 30-40 hours if you are actually good and fight for the wins, as I'm at 85 with Guardians at 30 hours of actually fighting this time around.
The base curses are easy to get. The cosmetics are a fun thing to play casually for. The 1000 is for the long haul players as we have everything else pretty much unlocked.
The biggest problem is queue times still bugging out. That is what's extending things. Plus players getting rolled cause there isn't any match making really.
I honestly don't know how you got past 100 by sinking your self 75% of the time, I kept trying to do so and its still time consuming, it takes about 5 minutes for me to sink and get back to another match, and right now I would get around 3% of a level per sink. this means that I need 34 sinks to get a level 34 x 5 = 170 minutes, which is approximately 3 hrs to get a level, your method is even more inefficient than mine I am sorry to say that, so again tbh I have no idea how did you get past level 100.
Edit: maybe you did GRIND losses A LOT I guess :D (but for someone with my schedule I still can't do what you did, I can only play for around 4hrs max a day only)
oh and one more thing, loss farming is something me and you can do as hardcore fans of this game, but you can't ask normal and new players to do the same, and if you're going to reply with disregard those players then this game mode is going to end up with even longer queue times, because those players could have filled in the gaps in the queue.
I think of me as a top tier player but also did a method on one side that isn't optimal. Both sides of the coin basically.
Try hards can get it in 24 to 40 hours depending on certain things. Those who can't pvp who lose can get it in 80 to 100 hours. Queue times and region permitting.
That's exactly how long it would take to get TSD/LSD I belive at about 100 hours.
It's a PvP update. But you are correct it's going to age like Arena and die off but at least gold and really amazing cosmetics are the goal this time.
Only made it half way to LSD and stopped playing arena, went back to adventure or stopped playing for a bit. The grind is tough but doubt they will make it easier for casuals and the sweats are going to run them off.
Arena 2.0 in the making...
@mouse-n-keybord said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
Arena 2.0 in the making...
Ok, but everyone here understands this is what Rare wants, right? Think of what it accomplishes:
Even if the code is only used 2-5% of the time, this is a screaming success from Rare's perspective. Once players return for the next season (oooo, new and shiny!) and forget about how terrible hourglass was, this will all be but a fuzzy memory of a nightmare from years past. Then, maybe next season or the season after that, we'll get another way to get alligience/those curses. The PVP try-hards will complain in the forums again, but it will mostly fall on deaf ears as players come back to finally get the curses they want.
Long term vision people.
Why are we still here? Just to suffer? Every night I can feel my leg (peg leg) and my arm (hook) even my fingers. The matches I've lost, the supplies I've lost, it won't stop hurting, it's like they are still there. You can feel it too, don't you?
Ok, memes aside. It feels grindy. Maybe hard is not the correct word, but tedious, because it is the repetition of an activity that some players don't enjoy. Hopefully they will add some other route to gain allegiance without going into PvP. After all, Season 7 had a lot of threads and people requesting PvP aligments and milestones. I discussed that it would be better not to add them directly, but to add a system like it only counts with Reaper's Mark flag equipped against players with Reaper's Mark too. Well, here in Season 8 we have 2 new milestone groups that are PvP focused, and it works with a similar system of what I suggested. I wanted to suggest a PvP aligment that would require both sides to go on their own will instead of looking for defenseless targets, and it is here now. There is hope that someday the developers will add a new way to get allegiance points.
For now, I look forward for the Gold and Glory weekend and see how far I can go with the increased boost.
@lordqulex said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@mouse-n-keybord said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
Arena 2.0 in the making...
Ok, but everyone here understands this is what Rare wants, right? Think of what it accomplishes:
- PVPers have a little sandbox that can pit invader against invader in the upper left or lower right part of the map, increasing player base.
- PVEers will have the hyper-aggressive players off their tushies because they were given their own little sandbox to play in, reducing PVE complaints and bringing back players.
- No dedicated servers to an arena, the arena is in adventure mode, cutting FOEX costs.
- No (less) dedicated code to maintain for instanced arenas, cutting FOEX costs.
- Fewer assets (graphics, audio, 3d objects...) in the client lowering download/update times and reducing FOEX costs.
Even if the code is only used 2-5% of the time, this is a screaming success from Rare's perspective. Once players return for the next season (oooo, new and shiny!) and forget about how terrible hourglass was, this will all be but a fuzzy memory of a nightmare from years past. Then, maybe next season or the season after that, we'll get another way to get those curses. The PVP try-hards will complain in the forums again, but it will mostly fall on deaf ears as players come back to finally get the curses they want.
Long term vision people.
Some would say that it's changed the world for the worse. 2 Ships having to be zoned into a server with 2 open slots or eventually someone can invade with a slot open. Killing off the crew that gets invaded more then likely has them log off especially if they lost loot. Meanwhile if the crew doesn't need loot they let it sink and keep it rolling.
I think if the match making was more transparent with how its working and improve the times it will be a better experience. That's coming from someone who enjoys PvP more then the PvE and the event is still boring with how long we just sit under water.
I agree that it's great they included this in Adventure and you can get TONs of gold from it but that takes wins. PvEers stuck between a rock and hard place cause they want the gold and cosmetics but not endlessly die to 2,000+ hour players. While the PvPers want real fights and not a crew they roll over 10+ times in a row.
We wont see the QoL update till March or April of next year because they are behind schedule. They took this long to make a buggy underwater queue system that might take little resources but clearly isn't working right. The try hards are not going to stop playing the mode or make it easy on those that casually play but its a numbers game, they just want a working queue system but will get worse the less players in the pool. If anything at the end of Arena looked exactly like Battle for the Sea of Thieves with 30 minutes waiting on a match to start, getting bad RNG spawns or making the entire arena just a boring grind of chasing after a chest that can't be caught.
@mouse-n-keybord said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@mewds-d-jolly said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@ogron2358 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
but what I was saying is that in general, people do care. If they just gave you all the cosmetics when you signed in day 1, no one would play this game.
I will start with this chunk first, no one, I swear to god no one in these forums let alone this thread asked to unlock anything regarding the new curses at level 1, if you've read the title of this thread it says "Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels" and that in no way concludes that the BASE CURSES are suggested to be unlocked at level 1, because all the pro grind folks that I have bumped into in these forums always jump into this conclusion whenever anyone suggests to make things respect the player's time more,
I am not sure what other games you are familiar with, but in all other games that I can think of, rare + cool = desired. If they want their pvp mode to be successful, they need to entice people to keep playing it, including me. I will grind it because these curses are rare and cool.
What you're saying is true, but the base curses shouldn't be rare to begin with, they should be accessible to players after a while of progression ofcorse, but surly not after 200hrs+ of grind for each base curse (I will write my numbers for you at the bottom of this post), a couple of examples for PvP games that I have played (CoD MW 1 and 2, Dead by daylight and Hunt Showdown) and all of these games reward their players for their contributions in their matches regardless of they win or lose, did any of these games lose their players base because these games respect their player's time? the answer is NO, on the contrary, players still play them more to this day.
If you take the rewards out and give them out just for some easy participation, then a good chunk of the players stop doing the mode which will hurt it.
The word "Make it EASIER" doesn't necessarily mean make it EASY, because the current difficulty of getting to level 100 is obnoxiously difficult for the average active player that wins 50% of their matches, so there is a HUGE SPECTRUM OF DIFFICULTY that Rare can mingle through between OBNOXIOUSLY DIFFICULT and EASY, it can be medium or hard, I wouldn't mind that and that wouldn't stop players from doing the current pvp mode, another note for you the current difficulty is already hurting the pvp mode, because more and more people are realising that its not worth their time and less people will queue for it, resulting in longer queue times for anyone that uses it, eventually spiralling to its demise.
I understand that there are different playstyles. I am just saying that they need to cater to multiple playstyles to make the game more active. They need some pvp grinds with really cool rewards (arena legendary weapons, then the curses), they need pve grinds for the people that grind hard (gold curse, ancient vault sails, ancient cutlass), they need easy stuff for people that don't have a ton of time but still want some cool rewards (season pass, ashen curse). The list goes on. What I was trying to establish is that your playstyle is not the ONLY playstyle, and this is something that is good for the game.
Fair argument, there is only one flaw to it, locking something that EVERY ONE wants behind HARD GRINDING ONE PLAYSTYLE is not acceptable, if the base curses would take about 50 hrs of pvp time for each that would be ok, and you can leave the prestigious gold ghost and golden skeleton curses for 1000 hrs and no one would care.
You don't have to participate in all the playstyles if you don't want to, or you can try, and eventually you will get better and get it.
Honestly, I am capable of sinking brigs and galleons while solo slooping, and I can go toe to toe with the sweats of this game, however long naval battles reward you with the same amount of Allegiance rep as short battles, heck if you sink a new player it will give you the same rep as you sunk a sweatlord, the game doesn't reward your skill or time put into it at all.
Or you can try to do it the PVE way by turning in flags you find (there is a PVE way to do it, but it shouldn't be very fast).
I am a fulltime reaper, I hope this gives you a hint on how fast I can level my allegiance by selling PVE flags.
What they should not do is add ways for you to get it by bucketing, shooting, etc. because it will flood the queues with people that are not playing. This is what ruins the game, this really hurt arena as well.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement, I will give you an easy example, in CoD, you are rewarded more XP for getting headshots, killing some one at a long distance, defending a place, attacking a place regardless of you win or lose, how you contributed to the match is reflected on your progression and that is rewarding and that doesn't hurt the game at all, more will play it because they feel like their time put in it is rewarded. (easy equivallent of those is, more rep for hitting cannon shots, breaking the mast, killing enemy player, fixing your ship ... etc)
Also what I was saying is that if they are the two most requested cosmetics, there are 'B' versions available. There is a skeleton from the shop, and they heard people complaining that they missed the athena ghost curse from season 1, so they added it in the store in the legends hideout.
The good thing about the skeleton curse, is that you can customize it, the one in the store you can't because its a costume which is kinda lame, and as for the legendary curse in the store in the legends hideout, you need to get to Allegiance with athena 105, so you still have to grind to 100 to get it.
I also understand that you really want these, and you do not feel like they are in your reach. I am trying to voice my opinion because I don't want Rare to change it, also I want to explain that there are ways for you to do it, mostly just trying. I lose all the time, I have the curse. I did put in a lot of hours, but its only been a couple of weeks. I am not an insane sweat. I don't know how to weapon switch effectively, I miss shots all the time, etc. I am trying to tell you that you can do it. Just stop giving up when you lose, keep trying, keep looking for improvement, keep practicing, and you will start wining a certain percentage of your matches and it will begin to feel obtainable. If everyone that thinks like you would hop in queues and try, you would have lots of people at your skill level and have good matches. The problem is that there is a huge player base in SOT that just gives up, that doesn't fight for their treasure, that doesn't try to push and become a more skilled player. If that is the case, I don't think those players deserve to rock the curse, sorry.
well as you've said it, alot of players give up, why? because its too grindy, and I will share my numbers with you now, since the start of this update I have played the new pvp game mode for about 130 hours, I am at level 69 servants of the flame, I sunk 107 ships and I got sunk 190 times (I was loss farming for a while because long battles are very boring and not worth my time), basically if a battle takes more than 5-10 mins I just let them sink me and go look for another player thats interested in a fight rather than running around or hoarding infinite supplies.
1 sink gives me about 25% of the current level (this is how it behaves from 60 to 100) So I need to sink 4 ships per level, multiply 4 by 31 = 124 which is more than double the time that I have already put, so an average player needs 124+107= 231 ship sinks to get to 100?! (HitboTC, a content creator, his skill is a bit above the average player and he did it at 195 sinks), and that is what is driving people away from the new game mode, is that they are required to put in 200+ hrs of only one game mode to unlock just 1 base curse and that is TOO MUCH TO ASK your average player to do.
Me getting my skeleton curse at 80 hours while giving away 75% of that grind to other players. It's 30-40 hours if you are actually good and fight for the wins, as I'm at 85 with Guardians at 30 hours of actually fighting this time around.
The base curses are easy to get. The cosmetics are a fun thing to play casually for. The 1000 is for the long haul players as we have everything else pretty much unlocked.
The biggest problem is queue times still bugging out. That is what's extending things. Plus players getting rolled cause there isn't any match making really.
Only 80 hrs? I've got 100+ hrs on just pvp and got 20 wins so far... i'm only lvl 21. if it took only 100 hrs to get the base curse I don't think anyone would be complaining.
Yea I think there is a gross over-estimation in general regarding the "average" players... The "git gud" is strong here and your average player is, let's not kid ourselves, absolute trash at PvP.
