Add transgender pride flag

  • MissBakeneko
    Castaway

    Pretty self explanatory, I think the transgender pride flag should be a customisation option in the flag box.

    Though there is already the rainbow flag which is meant to represent the LGBTQ community as a whole, transgender people such as myself are a particularly venerable and underrepresented group at the moment. As a trans woman I am subject to frequent harassment whenever I use voice chat, not just in sea of thieves but in any online game because to some my voice doesn't sound feminine enough. This is a common issue for trans women like myself and leads to us being harassed and accused of "pretending to be a girl for attention". It is a common practise for trans women who don't feel that their voice passes to make sure that the trans flag or just the colors are visible somewhere on their stuff in games so that people have no excuse to misgender or mock their voice. This is why it is so important that there is a way that transgender people such as myself have representation, so that we can make a statement that we are here and that we are valid.

    In conclusion while being such a small addition it would have a major impact for the trans player base as it would be Rare making the statement that transgender people are valid and that transphobia is not tolerated on the sea of thieves.

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  • Hefty Henri
    Marauder

    Nothing wrong with adding such a flag, but Rare doesn't need to make such a statement nor should you need a measly flag in a video game to feel ''valid''. Just do your thing and have fun, no need for everything to ''validate'' you as such. In my opinion a trans person would get respect and validation quicker by just going about their lives rather than asking for validation and representation at every turn.

  • ScurvyWoof
    Captain

    You do not need a virtual flag to feel valid, you just be you, regardless of what others think. That being said, Rare does need to crack down on things such as homophobes that openly attack others. But this should be done correctly and not banning people for things that aren’t transphobic/ homophobic at all…

    cough

  • Cogswallop
    Seafarer

    I feel like adding flags is such a simple thing in comparison with other requests in this game - why not have other pride flags? And why not have some nationality flags, too? In universe none of the players are technically 'native' to the Sea of Thieves so if they wanted to fly their country's flag, why not?

    Of course, given how often I am attacked even with nothing aboard and no emissary flag with the only common factor being that I fly the Pride flag, I worry that people target these flags. Maybe Rare doesn't want to deal with the possible implications there, i.e. one player just wants PvP and attacks a player with a Pride flag up - not BECAUSE of the pride flag but simply because they were there - and the other player assumes they were attacked for their flag since they were not of value otherwise (different story when carrying loot and/or an emissary flag). Not a great reason not to include them, but a possible one.

  • GoldsMen
    Captain
    Insider

    I can get behind the idea, but i worry that such a flag would either have some trolls who actively attack any with the flag only because they are using the flag, or do what some do now and put the gay pride flag on their ship and seek to troll others. Its sad, but that is very possible.

  • MissBakeneko
    Castaway

    @hefty-henri I think you have completely misunderstood the point I was trying to make. It isn't to make trans people feel valid but to affirm to the people who don't understand and accept us that we are here, and they have no ground to invalidate us.

  • Guyrza
    Master
    Insider

    @missbakeneko if people dont accept trans people thats on them, adding a trans flag will change absolutely nothing and will mainly be used by memers. You want people to change - go talk to them on this topic, but a virtual flag on your ship will have 0 effect.

  • Hefty Henri
    Marauder

    @missbakeneko Flying a flag to change other peoples minds is not going to work. If anything you are going to get ganked more just for flying it.

  • MissBakeneko
    Castaway

    @hefty-henri I don't why you dislike the idea so much, I want it and I know several other people who would too. It doesn't take anything away from anyone else's experiences in the game and it's a very easy thing to add.

  • Arch iDeall
    Marauder

    I don't mind the idea of additional flags, but be prepared that it's gonna be another toxic pvp flag like the rainbow is.

  • Musicmee
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Moderator
    Founder
    Deckhand

    Ahoy maties!

    Just dropping by to say let's keep things positive and friendly here!
    I see this has been the case already but just reaffirming I would like to keep this open as long as possible.

    If you have nothing positive to add to the discussion please find another thread where you can add something positive.

    On a personal note, I love how inclusive and welcoming this community can be! Lets not lose sight of that x

    Happy sailing!

  • SweetSandMan
    Lord
    Insider

    As long as they don't call it a "trans flag" I don't see any harm in adding it. For example...the rainbow flag isn't called or referred to as a pride flag. It's just a rainbow flag. We don't have country-oriented flags in the game for a reason.

    Adding a flag isn't going to stop the toxicity you experience, though. If anything, you're inviting more of it.

    Express yourself by being the pirate you want to be.

    You being transgender doesn't define who you are.

  • MaximusArael020
    Captain
    Insider

    I think some here are misinterpreting what @missbakeneko is saying. She's not saying trans people need a flag to feel valid. She's saying that Rare, as a corporation, adding a trans-flag, would be making a statement that trans people are valid. I think people saying that it is unnecessary for Rare to make this kind of statement are not aware of the climate towards trans individuals. Remember, silence is complicity. So if they come out and do something like adding the trans flag, they would be making a stand, saying "We believe trans people exist and all rhetoric dismissing them as having a 'mental illness' (a common argument on the anti-trans side) is wrong."

    This isn't about changing induvial people's minds. However seeing more and more gaming companies making it known that they support LGBTQ+ individuals, and currently especially trans rights, will help to normalize that thinking throughout society. Part of why we have come so far in the realm of LGBTQ+ rights is that over the past 70 years or so representation for that group has been allowed to increase, in media, in games, in government, in areas of public support. Without people willing to stand up and "normalize" the idea of LGBTQ+ we would still be as backwards-thinking as we were in the 1950's. People who already have their minds made up probably won't change, however younger players who haven't been poisoned by anti-trans rhetoric may see the trans flag available in the flag box and then later when people are trying to say "they don't exist" or whatever might think, even subconsciously, "Well Rare believes this is real, so maybe the other side isn't steeped in facts." It's not about changing people's minds now, but also creating an environment where such things are normal/common place to make the anti-trans side the fringe, baseless side.

    And @missbakeneko if anything I've said is incorrect or off the mark, please feel free to correct me.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    This is one of the topics I go back and forth with myself in my head the most. I've been in similar threads, supported the value within escapism for all. Opposing companies capitalizing on serious issues only when they become safe to do so. Trying to find the balance between escapism and expression, togetherness and individuality.

    As we have gained more opportunity for immersion and expression and individuality on the seas I feel the way to approach this is by creating a feature and allowing customized flag design.

    Allowing people to express themselves as individuals while those with the power of design focus on serving escapism.

    Escapism is a form of social shelter for some within all groups/types of people that face cruelty and mistreatment.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    I have no objections, but I do share some concerns raised over it being targeted. It's an unfortunate reality that bigots can be a really loud and obnoxious vocal minority.

    It would be a far bigger statement from Rare to do a charity drive in support of Trans (and other LGBTQIA+) causes. We're long overdue some new charity sails, and I think it would be an opportunity for the community to give to a cause whilst signaling that we are inclusive.

    Much love and happy sailing.

  • HeyltsMeTC
    Legend
    Insider

    @realstyli This, i feel, is the MUCH more tasteful and all around supportive idea. One flag that distasteful individuals can sully the name of (much like the current rainbow flag) sounds more unproductive than a set of charity sails depicting something maybe in the colours of the pride flag (or especially the trans flag, beautiful palette). This way, people who buy them ARE supporting the cause, and if someone bought them even with the intent of memeing or smearing, they have still given money in support of these causes, in an egg on their face kinda way.
    I subscribe to the idea that SoT itself is a non-judgemental environment, where everyone is simply free to be who they are. You aren't locked to wearing clothes or effects specific to your gender, you can be any kind of pirate you want, IPG permitting, and there is no explicit display of any identity or nationality. We are all united as one on the Seas. You will get bigots and unpleasant rhetorics but the game itself does nothing to give power to those individuals, and TOS guarantees these individuals caught in the act get punished.

  • GoldsMen
    Captain
    Insider

    @realstyli said in Add transgender pride flag:

    I have no objections, but I do share some concerns raised over it being targeted. It's an unfortunate reality that bigots can be a really loud and obnoxious vocal minority.

    It would be a far bigger statement from Rare to do a charity drive in support of Trans (and other LGBTQIA+) causes. We're long overdue some new charity sails, and I think it would be an opportunity for the community to give to a cause whilst signaling that we are inclusive.

    Much love and happy sailing.

    This just gave me an idea! It would still be targeted im sure, but keep people from using the flag while trolling, it could be a special purchase for those who donate during a charity event. Its not a perfect solution, but it could at the very least make it so trolls wouldnt want to use it because they would first have to support it.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @goldsmen said in Add transgender pride flag:

    This just gave me an idea! It would still be targeted im sure, but keep people from using the flag while trolling, it could be a special purchase for those who donate during a charity event. Its not a perfect solution, but it could at the very least make it so trolls wouldnt want to use it because they would first have to support it.

    If it's going to exist in the game it shouldn't be locked behind payment or require supporting a charity

    It should be free for all and most importantly accessible to all that it is in support of.

  • GoldsMen
    Captain
    Insider

    @wolfmanbush said in Add transgender pride flag:

    @goldsmen said in Add transgender pride flag:

    This just gave me an idea! It would still be targeted im sure, but keep people from using the flag while trolling, it could be a special purchase for those who donate during a charity event. Its not a perfect solution, but it could at the very least make it so trolls wouldnt want to use it because they would first have to support it.

    If it's going to exist in the game it shouldn't be locked behind payment or require supporting a charity

    It should be free for all and most importantly accessible to all that it is in support of.

    Its just 1 idea as a way to at least keep it out of the hands of trolls who would use it while doing nothing but causing issues and grief. As well as just being a reward for those who supported a decent cause. I did think of it being a bit problematic since those who it represent may not have access to it because of financial reasons, which could be a downer for some, but having it come from financially supporting it could be a very good cause.

  • MaximusArael020
    Captain
    Insider

    Heck, why not have both? Have a trans flag that can be equipped by anyone, and if people are going to troll with it they will but honestly that just leads them to getting banned faster. I fly the pride flag because I support the LGBTQ+ community and also to bait those who WOULD be toxic to any LGBTQ+ people into attacking me and hopefully using some bannable language. I personally am not part of the LGBTQ+ community, just an ally, so their words aren't harmful to my mental health and only serve as evidence to get them punished. Then also have a Trans charity stream with a trans-themed sail set gifted to those who donate! Make it so those who donate can claim their sails or gift them to someone else, making it so if you know someone in the community who would identify with the sails but cannot donate you can gift the sails to them.

  • GoldsMen
    Captain
    Insider

    @maximusarael020 said in Add transgender pride flag:

    Heck, why not have both? Have a trans flag that can be equipped by anyone, and if people are going to troll with it they will but honestly that just leads them to getting banned faster. I fly the pride flag because I support the LGBTQ+ community and also to bait those who WOULD be toxic to any LGBTQ+ people into attacking me and hopefully using some bannable language. I personally am not part of the LGBTQ+ community, just an ally, so their words aren't harmful to my mental health and only serve as evidence to get them punished. Then also have a Trans charity stream with a trans-themed sail set gifted to those who donate! Make it so those who donate can claim their sails or gift them to someone else, making it so if you know someone in the community who would identify with the sails but cannot donate you can gift the sails to them.

    Technically i am part of the lgbtq community, but i just dont care for the pride aspect personally, just because i dont feel a need to be proud of how im born, i just see it as, "i am who i am, and thats good enough for me", but theres no shame in pride if it makes some one happy! people can feel how they like if it makes them happy.

    As long as some one is happy, and are kind about what makes them happy, then theres nothing wrong with how they feel! Im always for peoples rights to be happy.

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    Just gonna point this out.

    If they add this. The nasty players are gonna pick on/harass those who raise the flag. Mark my words, it’s a given. Similar to reapers hunting emissary but x10. I don’t want to see complaints over another flag because of a group.

    Frankly I rather keep flags related to pirates themed. But that all I got. Be safe sailing

  • CaptHitreg
    Castaway

    I personally don't think they should add it, as if you need to be validated, everyone else would seek said validation as well. I think in the current state of Sea of Thieves, they should focus their energy on stuff other than validating flags.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @capthitreg said in Add transgender pride flag:

    I personally don't think they should add it, as if you need to be validated, everyone else would seek said validation as well. I think in the current state of Sea of Thieves, they should focus their energy on stuff other than validating flags.

    at the core of the suggestion is an attempt to cut down on cruel treatment during a common scenario.

    I think the flag will have very minimal (if any) positive impact on this specific scenario

    but imo it opens up for a discussion about adding pronouns to open mic chatting in this game. This will not cut down significantly on intentional cruel treatment but it will assist people that want to be more considerate in communication as well as cut down on a lot of the conversations that one or both sides might not want to have until they are more comfortable with a person.

  • Ninja Naranja
    Champion
    Insider

    I think Rare have said in the past that adding this kinds of flags would just lead to more harassment, and we definitely don’t need more of that.

    That being said, I’d love to see more charity sails, maybe one in the trans color scheme depicting something cool. Been awhile since the last charity sail that’s for sure.

  • OceanWanders
    Castaway

    @hefty-henri
    There is a great deal of wisdom in this response.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @oceanwanders said in Add transgender pride flag:

    @hefty-henri
    There is a great deal of wisdom in this response.

    I think something that is being missed within the reasonable responses is the specific scenario that was brought up.

    When it comes to voices during random interactions there are people that are subjected to significant amounts of negative and targeted focus entirely on how they sound. Not what they say, not who they are, not how they play, just their sound when they speak.

    I think that's something we should really be focusing on within the post because it's outside of "just be yourself and don't seek validation"

    Ultimately all we can do is offer tools for considerate people to work together in a higher quality of life kind of way and continue on with the report system for violations but I don't think this is a case of constantly seeking validation, I think it's a common case of people not wanting to constantly have negative focus on them for having a voice that doesn't line up with people's expectations.

  • ntraills
    Ship Mate

    What about adding preferred pronouns to pirate's name tags? I have certainly found that helpful in some discord forums.

  • MaximusArael020
    Captain
    Insider

    @ntraills
    That's a great idea! People can choose it if they want to or leave it blank if they don't care. Doesn't take away anything from anyone and allows me to be called by my preferred pronouns even when rocking my feminine-bodied pirate.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @ntraills said in Add transgender pride flag:

    What about adding preferred pronouns to pirate's name tags? I have certainly found that helpful in some the discord forums.

    I think it would be helpful for people looking to get along which is really all that can be done in random scenarios. Look to support those with tools that are looking to be considerate.

    There will be some pushback against it, to me I look at it like what already exists. I'm not gonna use it for myself but I think the opportunity for others to supports expression and individuality.

    If we are going to talk to random people during random encounters it is helpful to have that information for productive and considerate communication.

    I value being transparent about things and to be transparent I often have no idea who I am talking to. I don't know their life, their situation, their preferences, I can assume but I generally have no clue without more information to piece together. Any assumptions I make very well could be inaccurate and unintentionally hurtful. Especially coming from a Sir and Ma'am background like I do.

    Is it going to change people's views or approaches? not really

    Is it helpful for someone like me that is willing to take that information, implement it into convo and carry on with my day? Yeah

  • Kydonia
    Seafarer

    Adding the flag is something I'd support.

    I'm sure there would be people who target it, or would use it to suggest a false commonality to sneak up on someone, but that's not really much different to social media, where trans people endure a lot of abuse BUT one positive encounter with someone kind and affirming, I'm told, can make a huge difference. Especially with some people, companies and governments really trying to beat them down at the moment.

    Looking forward to the day I can sail up to someone with a pretty pastel flag, share a grog and a shanty and leave some treasure on their decks that will totally clash with the decor.

  • Guyrza
    Master
    Insider

    @kydonia sorry mate, doubt that'll happen. Even if Rare decides to add it in-game, I assure you, chance of u fulfilling ur dream is very low. Thats jus simply how the game community works. And even if you will, it wont be due to flag, but to the decency of people themselves. And if people are decent, why would u need the flag at all?

  • wsurftvveeds
    Master
    Insider

    According to a quick google search there are over 20 different pride flag variations representing different groups. Who's to say any one of those groups is any more valid/deserving of a flag ingame than any others?

    It'd get sort of overkill if all 20+ flags got added - that'd almost be the majority of flags ingame (ignoring limited time ones probably).

    I think the pride/rainbow shows that rare supports all of these communities simultaneously

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @wsurftvveeds said in Add transgender pride flag:

    According to a quick google search there are over 20 different pride flag variations representing different groups. Who's to say any one of those groups is any more valid/deserving of a flag ingame than any others?

    It'd get sort of overkill if all 20+ flags got added - that'd almost be the majority of flags ingame (ignoring limited time ones probably).

    I think the pride/rainbow shows that rare supports all of these communities simultaneously

    or do what I suggested and allow custom flag creation and people can do what they want as an individual

    even if it's not ultra fancy they can still offer shapes and colors for people to work with

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