Legacy achievement removal if never unlocked in order to accurately reflect completion.

@work-2tap
Yeah having them there is a little annoying. Maybe add a tab for legacy achievements.

I think a better way is to just hide the achievement if it was never unlocked like how steam does it
I don't know if that would work on Xbox tho

There are already several threads on this topic. It would be disrespectful for those who put the time in arena, and beyond that, everyone had 6? weeks to complete arena. If Rare shut down arena with little or no notice I'd agree though!

"What happens to any Xbox achievements that could only be earned in The Arena?

After thorough investigation, we were unable to find a fair and elegant way to repurpose the Arena-centric achievements for use in Sea of Thieves’ sandbox Adventure mode. We were unwilling to compromise in a way that would disrespect the efforts of players who fully met the original criteria, so alongside retiring The Arena as a game mode, we will also be retiring the accompanying achievements. These will be marked as Legacy Achievements on Xbox, and will no longer be visible or earnable on the Steam platform after March 10th."

You didn't complete 100% of the achievements, so you don't get 100%.

If we are asking for favors, I only get to play like 2-4 hours per week, and that is probably 30% of what a good chunk of the community plays per week, so can I get my progress percentage boosted by a proportionate amount? No? Huh.

@super87ghost
Wait, why is it unfair? How long was Arena in SoT? Like 2 years? If you didn't get the achievements for Arena, that's on you the player. If you started after Arena already shut down and wanted to 100% the game, then you should have looked into that ahead of time that it was possible. It's a live-service game, so that's something you would want to double-check.

Is it unfair I don't get the Pirate Legend Curse from Season 1 because I completed all the necessary objectives to get it, only 2 years too late? No, it's not. I missed it because I missed it. That's all there is to it.

@super87ghost
What are Achievements but cosmetics for your gamer profile? None of these are "real" things, so in essence it doesn't matter.

There are rules for achievements, and actually here's one:

"Modifying Active Achievements (XR-060)
After an achievement has been published to users, it cannot be removed, nor can its unlock rules or rewards be changed. Achievement text strings (name, description) or art (icons/background) can be modified."

So I guess the answer to the OP is assuredly no.

@super87ghost uh…no…
The unlock rules are still THERE
There’s just no way to unlock it…since arena is gone…
So nothing about the unlock rules for the achievement changed…the game changed so you can no longer fulfil that unlock rule.

@magus104 said in Legacy achievement removal if never unlocked in order to accurately reflect completion.:

its ironic that the progress we have gained is still shown despite never being able to complete them now... Like they are respecting how much of the grind we did do so we can still see how far we had gone... Yet captaincy invalidated thousands of hours of our PvE progress by making us have to regrind stuff. [...]

That comparison doesn't make any sense, I can still see what I did (achievements, commendations) before the Captaincy of S7. Nothing invalidated at all.

@super87ghost said in Legacy achievement removal if never unlocked in order to accurately reflect completion.:

@realwebber69 They did break the rule.

Within rule XR-060 that Maximus cited you argue that the rules for completing it changed, since you can't complete it anymore (and in the Xbox base-rules it says that it should be achievable, so that rule clearly changed...). You could also argue that because you can't complete it anymore it is removed (nowhere does it say that the removal is only from the list and not effectively from the game).

But the more obvious one is the base-rule XR-055 that says "A single achievement cannot exceed 200 gamerscore and all achievements in the title must be achievable."
It's clearly not achievable anymore, so it breaks that rule. Microsoft's Xbox-rules around achievements are made so that everybody can theoretically 100% the game, no matter when they started playing.

LOL, "all achievements in the title must be achievable" does in no way translate to all achievements MUST REMAIN achievable from here to eternity. Case in point the many games that have had any sort of server shut-down that removed features were attached to an achievement - if it meant your illogical interpretation then that means no game could ever shut down servers attached to multiplayer or other enhancements/features that had achievements attached to the feature. Obviously this is not the case, thus your "interpretation" is merely your own fantasy and has no basis in reality.

@super87ghost

Ah, but see you missed part of the point, and you said it yourself. "It's clearly not available anymore". But it was available, as some people have 100%-ed the game! The clause that you are misinterpreting is stating that the achievement must be able to be achieved in the game, and not impossible. Such as an Achievement in Sea of Thieves being "Romance Liara 1 time". Well you can't do that in Sea of Thieves, because there are no romance options, and no Liara. The Arena achievements in question were achievable and thus satisfy the rules. Some people have achieved all the achievements, thus all achievements are achievable, even if some people cannot currently achieve them.

What's funny is you purposely misinterpret the rule XR-055, but ignore the rule I quoted XR-060. Rule XR-060 states that the achievements cannot be removed or unlock rules or rewards changed. So there's really no path forward then, eh? You can argue about your interpretation for XR-055, but XR-060 is very clear.

@super87ghost

You are adding words and definitions to the actual rules in question. It merely states it must be Achievable. Have people achieved it? Yes. Then it means it is achievable. It never states it must remain achievable. You are adding words and context. They have fulfilled the rules of XR-055 and cannot change or eliminate the achievements because of XR-060. It's really that simple.

@super87ghost said in Legacy achievement removal if never unlocked in order to accurately reflect completion.:

@dlchief58 If a game shuts the servers down, the game isn't being sold anymore (often the server shut down months or years after they stopped selling the game). So there won't be new players then. The game is then technically dead. That is already a completely different situation, because then all players where able to get the achievements.
On top of that: games that shut down their servers also don't use the Xbox live services anymore then. If you don't use those Xbox services anymore, the rules obviously don't apply anymore, because those are tied to use of those services.

If you can't see how that is completely different then SoT that is still being sold, still using the Xbox services and still getting new players, that is on you.

WOW! Oh my, how wrong you are! I can list MANY games that have discontinued servers with achievements, yet those games are STILL available to sell. Your rationalizations are not grounded in reality. There are literally HUNDREDS of games that would fall into this category, so that rationalization is debunked. Also a LOTR game and a WWE game each had servers shut down in less than a year, how does that fit into your interpretation?

The rule you are twisting the meaning to suit your purpose is referring to when a game RELEASES, not later in its life cycle. Nothing remotely suggests that a game has to have every achievement available for all time as you suggest. I've already showed why that is an absurd interpretation, and a lot of publishers would not go along with such restrictions.

I'll give you a recent example that has exactly the same circumstances regarding the Arena achievements being discontinued/made Legacy. World of Tanks used to have a War Stories mode which was a mini campaign, they discontinued it last year (or maybe the previous year) and with that several achievements were no longer achievable due to that. That game is still very much alive (not "dead" as you like to justify other games being exempted....show me the rule where this is specified!) so it also has that in common with the current situation being discussed. They could not repurpose them to be fair as this was a PVE mode whereas the rest of the game is PVP so were discontinued (sound familiar?). And the mode was added later via a title update, just as Arena was added as the Year 2 title update. So if World of Tanks is not "breaking" these supposed rules, then Rare is not either. But I'm sure you'll find some way to hand wave it away because it destroys your narrative.

You also make the claim that achievements cannot be based on limited time events - again that is blatantly false! Full House Poker had time limited achievements only available during certain seasons - once the season finished they were not achievable. Overwatch also has limited time events with achievements attached - try getting those before the game shuts down.

Then there is the whole situation about broken achievements.

I've used the logic with examples to show you how absurd your interpretation is, you play mental gymnastics to justify your position yet provide no proof or examples to back up your claims. Your interpretation is not proof, only your biased view (which is all so wrong!).

Being "achievable" does not mean it has to be so forever, and (as you like to say) "It doesn't say it".

This is going to be locked probably since this was already discussed in depth though I agree making the game impossible to complete is one of the worst decision Rare ever made and this is coming from someone with the achievements. Best course of action was to remove the achievements and just add new limited time cosmetic rewards for completing those achievements (which it is technically not to late to do)

And before anyone says that there were already plenty of limited time cosmetics tied to arena.

1. Removing an achievement would be the equivalent of getting rid of something limited time so should be compensated with another the reward for playing arena was the commendations, achievements, and cosmetics.

2. The arena achievements were not all directly linked to a commendation or in game cosmetic so some people would lose the achievements having won nothing in return

In short should just remove or change the achievements and give everyone who completed them a cosmetic in game for having done so (one for each)

I think they should do another round of Overachiever (Or similar) Sails for those who got them all, and then remove them from the list, I have them thankfully, but I understand the struggle for people who don’t have em. That sucks.

@nitroxien

You must not have read through the thread. We already discussed this portion. Microsoft has rules about Achievements.

"Modifying Active Achievements (XR-060)
After an achievement has been published to users, it cannot be removed, nor can its unlock rules or rewards be changed. Achievement text strings (name, description) or art (icons/background) can be modified."

So they can't do that.

@maximusarael020 That rule you state has changed somewhat since the launch of the Xbox One and its achievement system. While achievements cannot be removed (nor should they be in order to reflect a true completion), they now can be altered or changed. Rare has already done this a few times - from reducing the voyages, fruit crates (formerly banana crates in the achievement description BTW), and gunpowder barrels necessary to unlock those associated achievements to amending the unlock requirements and description for many of the Arena achievements when they went from 1.0 to 2.0 since the change in the game mode made a couple unobtainable.

So while they cannot (and should not) be removed, they can be altered after released when it makes sense. Rare made the correct decision in discontinuing those Arena ones instead of repurposing as there was no good way to do it that was fair to those already having them nor any comparable tasks to change them to.

Wow, it seems I started a good post. At the end of the day, it should be equal across platforms, if on steam you can 100% without arena achievements…then on Xbox you should be able to. If a new player buys the game today, they should be able to 100% their game that they lay money for. Bottom line.

I also think the zero value remedy would be the perfect solution if it was the only way.

@work-2tap except platforms are not the same, and don't have the same rules, so I wouldn't automatically expect that things will be that way. Nice when it is, but not always going to be the case. Case and point, Sea of Thieves.

@work-2tap sounds fair but the problem is, the achievement was already added, wasn't it? It can't be removed, and if it's changed, it wouldn't really be fair on those who achieved it, would it?
I mean, imagine grinding out wins in the arena for an achievement, only for it to be replaced by something like "eat 100 bananas"....

@schwammlgott said in Legacy achievement removal if never unlocked in order to accurately reflect completion.:

@work-2tap sagte in Legacy achievement removal if never unlocked in order to accurately reflect completion.:

I also think the zero value remedy would be the perfect solution if it was the only way.

Take away Gamerscore from my list? No, thank you!

One more thing I have to correct about your headline "...in order to accurately reflect completion"
You mean "in order to show a lie"

or "to satisfy my ego" would also be appropriate.

@work-2tap said in Legacy achievement removal if never unlocked in order to accurately reflect completion.:

Wow, it seems I started a good post. At the end of the day, it should be equal across platforms, if on steam you can 100% without arena achievements…then on Xbox you should be able to. If a new player buys the game today, they should be able to 100% their game that they lay money for. Bottom line.

No, if anything Steam should change the way they do it as it is dishonest and does NOT reflect a true completion. Also Microsoft had achievements first, why should they copy someone who came afterwards?

Microsoft's way does reflect true completions, Steam's does not as removing them would give those who did get them before removed a percentage above 100% if they complete all achievements. That is not an accurate reflection of achievement completion ratios.