TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM

  • @icecube1940

    How am I attacking exactly? By discussing with them respectfully on a discussion forum?

  • @count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @scurvywoof Well sir in case you were uanaware to me your flippant retort came off as rude and unhelpful. Everyone else here has posted in good faith with the effort to educate or at least to have a civil discussion on a topic that is causing many players to feel as if the game is not accessible and thusly to leave. The new players wont stick around long while the Sweats use thier skills to ruin their fun. But so long as one more random sloop gets sunk for pocket change its all good. Im sure you could start your own post on the toxicity of the PVE players if you were so inclined. Im sure youd have a riveting tale on how those toxic PVEers just hound you to ruin their hard work and take their loot. Perhaps if more PVPers had looked to fight a real challenge and not punch down the Arena would still be open . Then you could have all the PVP you wanted and those of us that dont measure up to your ideals would have a more focused way to acquire the skills needed to get gud and rise to a level where those who share your perspectives wouldnt find us so loathsome and toxic... or perhaps you prefer the thrill of ransacking the unskilled or the unprepared as going face to face with your equally skilled compatriots in the Arena might have been somewhat daunting. HOWEVER you might only target Reaper Emissaries or those bearing the Reapers Mark and if that is the case please say so and I will gladly apologize for any ill assumptions or disparaging thought I might have internally entertained about your character and lineage .

    Dude, exactly that is what @ScurvyWoof meant about toxic PvE. Also, the Arena was closed because of how little people played it. There was hardly any gatekeeping at all, no spawncamping newbies, it was just that hardly anyone wanted to play in a gamemode that was centered around PvP.

    Edit: Maybe he didn't mean it that way...

  • @animeowl0807 If so little PVPers played an exclusivly PVP mode that says something. Its almost as if they didnt want a real fight...

  • @count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @animeowl0807 If so little PVPers played an exclusivly PVP mode that says something. Its almost as if they didnt want a real fight...

    Or maybe they didn't want to limit themselves to play a mode that only gave them access to a fraction of what the game has to offer?

  • @bloodybil They could do both but if PVPers are looking for a fight theyd go where the fighters are or are meant to be ... yet trolls (not legit PVPers looking for consensual challenging combat) dont want to fight... they want to bully. They want to assert their dominance on virtual non combatants. It strikes me as a bit cowardly

  • @count-drogos It is cowardly for a skilled player to wipe out a brand new player. But it's not "toxic" aka ban-worthy. And the whole "pvp consent" thing has been talked about for years and notice, it hasn't changed. When you log in, you give consent to be attacked at any time. If that aspect were to change, it would have happened long long ago. All due respect you're not bringing anything new.

  • @unleet1 Ban worthy ... No. I think that would be too extreame and perhaps its not toxic as defined by the ToS but toxic as a general concept none the less. Accepting Risks and consenting to combat are two different things thus so many just run . That doesnt mean that those forced encounters are not detrimental to the moral and the overal health of the game. PVP should be preserved but there is an imbalance that should be addressed if only to promote more PVP in a manner where more equitable outcomes are normalized. Again I suggest deadlier weapons as many are able to land hits but never seem to score the kill. Respectfully I dont have to bring anything NEW to continue to bring attention to an issue that harms newcomers and the overall health of the game.

  • @unleet1
    The point is that PVP is a problem when it stops being about risk-reward or a challenge or just becomes about griefing.

    My own group has a problem with a murderhobo who always wants to attack sloops that we all just watched sell everything, then 2 more crew members go along with wanting to sink them anyway.

    I'd rather occupy them with actual targets.

  • Hey I hate to poke my bowstrit I to this but "toxic" pvp is more about butthurt and being a jerk than actual issues. Yes. That pvp bro slinging slurs as fast as cannonballs? Problematic. That G5 reaper that Portaled in and ganked your G5 Athena? Not so much. Both suck, but decorum, amirite?

  • @pithyrumble Theres definately a certain balance that should be preserved. Sure an Athena G5 is a valid target but should you chase down a vessel obviously willing to sail into the red vs engage in combat? Whats the gain? Theres no loot... theres no challenge... theres no fight.... Just a waste of everyones time with the only victory being depriving a team that worked for their hard earned reward. Wouldnt the PVPer rather go after someone that WANTS to engage and will provide a challenge? Additionally a cost to PVP would help balance the issue such as a multipler on the cost to repair any ship damaged while running a reaper flag. That way everyone has skin in the game. Perhaps a gold multiplier for loot earned from reaper on reaper combat? If loots the goal go to forts or run your own Athena. And again Im not talking about an ambush that puts the onus on the defenders to be aware but rather a pursuit that borders on obsession just to impose your will on others that want none of it.

  • @count-drogos
    Again on the topic of being attacked by an empty ship while empty-

    If I lose, I lose all of my supplies because I was sunk
    If I win, I still lose all of my supplies because I spent them fighting
    Enemy ship has nothing to gain or lose as well, it's just an ever-present annoyance because there's no purpose behind it and you want nothing to do with it.

  • @count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @pithyrumble Theres definately a certain balance that should be preserved. Sure an Athena G5 is a valid target but should you chase down a vessel obviously willing to sail into the red vs engage in combat? Whats the gain? Theres no loot... theres no challenge... theres no fight.... Just a waste of everyones time with the only victory being depriving a team that worked for their hard earned reward. Wouldnt the PVPer rather go after someone that WANTS to engage and will provide a challenge? Additionally a cost to PVP would help balance the issue such as a multipler on the cost to repair any ship damaged while running a reaper flag. That way everyone has skin in the game. Perhaps a gold multiplier for loot earned from reaper on reaper combat? If loots the goal go to forts or run your own Athena. And again Im not talking about an ambush that puts the onus on the defenders to be aware but rather a pursuit that borders on obsession just to impose your will on others that want none of it.

    First of all, how do you know there is no loot? You assume that everybody are always aware of your intentions and you seem to pretend to be always aware of other's. To me the more a ship flees, the more they have to lose. I've chased ships trying to give them loot for achievements or trying to engage in conversation to coordinate events. I've chased to practice my sailing skills too, soloing brigs for fun to be a better helmsman when my crewmates aren't on board. It's an open game where people can do what they want for whatever reason they want (as long as they aren't being rude or really toxic, it's a shame this buzzword got so watered-down), loot doesn't need to be involved.

  • @bloodybil Still all about you .... If theyre running they dont care what your intentions are... they want nothing to do with you . As far as loot generally speaking theres a glow... but even if you cant tell you certainly can tell when theyre headed into the Red ... when theyre willing to choose the proverbial death before dishonor. But it again seems to come to imposing your desire on people willing to cross the map to avoid you. They dont want the combat.. they dont want to be part of your game...they want to play their own game. Sure you have the ability to do as you choose and the right within the confines of the game to play as you choose but choosing to force real people whove spent real time into such a position when they have no interest in playing with you is again prioritizing your fun over theirs instead of finding a willing participant where you both have fun. To me that seems toxic as a general course even if its not toxic as defined in the ToS

  • @bloodybil said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @pithyrumble Theres definately a certain balance that should be preserved. Sure an Athena G5 is a valid target but should you chase down a vessel obviously willing to sail into the red vs engage in combat? Whats the gain? Theres no loot... theres no challenge... theres no fight.... Just a waste of everyones time with the only victory being depriving a team that worked for their hard earned reward. Wouldnt the PVPer rather go after someone that WANTS to engage and will provide a challenge? Additionally a cost to PVP would help balance the issue such as a multipler on the cost to repair any ship damaged while running a reaper flag. That way everyone has skin in the game. Perhaps a gold multiplier for loot earned from reaper on reaper combat? If loots the goal go to forts or run your own Athena. And again Im not talking about an ambush that puts the onus on the defenders to be aware but rather a pursuit that borders on obsession just to impose your will on others that want none of it.

    First of all, how do you know there is no loot? You assume that everybody are always aware of your intentions and you seem to pretend to be always aware of other's. To me the more a ship flees, the more they have to lose. I've chased ships trying to give them loot for achievements or trying to engage in conversation to coordinate events. I've chased to practice my sailing skills too, soloing brigs for fun to be a better helmsman when my crewmates aren't on board. It's an open game where people can do what they want for whatever reason they want (as long as they aren't being rude or really toxic, it's a shame this buzzword got so watered-down), loot doesn't need to be involved.

    I don't know about you but when I see a ship leave an outpost I assume they're empty.

  • @count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @bloodybil Still all about you .... If theyre running they dont care what your intentions are... they want nothing to do with you . As far as loot generally speaking theres a glow... but even if you cant tell you certainly can tell when theyre headed into the Red ... when theyre willing to choose the proverbial death before dishonor. But it again seems to come to imposing your desire on people willing to cross the map to avoid you.

    No that is stubbornness on their part at this point, it's neither about me or them. This a multiplayer game, you are not playing alone.

    They dont want the combat.. they dont want to be part of your game...they want to play their own game. Sure you have the ability to do as you choose and the right within the confines of the game to play as you choose but choosing to force real people whove spent real time into such a position when they have no interest in playing with you is again prioritizing your fun over theirs instead of finding a willing participant where you both have fun

    Well it's a shame they deliberately chose to play an open world game then, they made the decision to partake in the shared world. Nobody is forcing anybody in anything, decisions were made all around, it's a multiplayer world, stop playing victim, communicate.
    Nobody's time is more precious than anyone else's. It seems it's all about you in fact.

  • @count-drogos

    Oh I agree on the willingness, capabilities and quality of the fight. There are genuinely honorable pvp fighters out there. Some really do want a good fight.

    There are also shifty little sea goblins out there that are more trouble than the castaway chest I have. Like me. 😆🤣 I will draw out an engagement just to annoy and distract you.

    Am I good in a stand up fight? Pfft no.
    Am I a challenge...absolutely.

    As Zangeif once said, "Just because you are badguy doesn't mean you are a bad guy

  • @bloodybil Well then happy trolling. Congrats on taking pleasure in helping drive players out of the game. You obviously seem to prioritize yourself vs the whole. Personally Id like to everyone win and get what they want. But in general bullies seldom chose to to face those with an equal propensity for confrontation so it makes sense theyd target the unwilling. At least in the digital space theres no real threat and they can live out whatever power fantasies thrill them. To me that seems reprehensible.

  • @pithyrumble Its all about balance... If youre really not a PVP lord and you die as often as you succeed then the encounter seems fair enough and adds spice to the game. But if you know on average youre just about to mud stomp folks and hound them down to do it thats a little different.

  • @count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @bloodybil Well then happy trolling. Congrats on taking pleasure in helping drive players out of the game. You obviously seem to prioritize yourself vs the whole. Personally Id like to everyone win and get what they want. But in general bullies seldom chose to to face those with an equal propensity for confrontation so it makes sense theyd target the unwilling. At least in the digital space theres no real threat and they can live out whatever power fantasies thrill them. To me that seems reprehensible.

    Thanks, I'll keep driving players away from the game by chasing them to donate loot!
    Keep trying to look virtuous and assign malicious intents to everybody you encounter instead of communicating with them.

  • @count-drogos

    But see that's just it. I'm the one likely getting mudstomped.

    I learned how to avoid it mostly and be a sincere pain in the aft. It's fun in a sadistic spank me captain sorta way.

    There will always be those players. Try not to let them get to you and even turn it against them. I've gotten more hate mail about scuttling than spawn wall red seaing.

  • @bloodybil Well Im communicating with you for example and currently all Ive seen as a reply are justifications for your own bloodlust. Some folks just want to watch the world burn right? At least you have the ability to acknowledge you knowingly are willing to drive people out of the game.

  • @pithyrumble Thanks for the input thats a great point

  • @count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @bloodybil Well Im communicating with you for example and currently all Ive seen as a reply are justifications for your own bloodlust. Some folks just want to watch the world burn right? At least you have the ability to acknowledge you knowingly are willing to drive people out of the game.

    Thanks, I'll keep driving players away from the game by chasing them to donate loot!

    My bloodthirsty charity shall consume the sea!
    Maybe you should lighten up and stop to chat with your chasers next time, you could be surprised to see they are not the monsters you believe they are!

  • @bloodybil Your name is bloodybil . Doesnt inspire the lets talk I wanna give you loot vibes

  • @count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @bloodybil Your name is bloodybil . Doesnt inspire the lets talk I wanna give you loot vibes

    Oh well, if you judge people by their names or ship liveries instead of talking to them, you will never know.

  • @bloodybil Expirience educates...too many encounters are sink first talk never to risk parley partic if youre not a PVP Lord who can fall back on superior combat if negotiations fail

  • @count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @bloodybil Expirience educates...too many encounters are sink first talk never to risk parley partic if youre not a PVP Lord who can fall back on superior combat if negotiations fail

    What does it cost you then if you have nothing on board and heading towards the red sea? ;)

  • @count-drogos I don't think talking to the guy is a worthwhile endeavor.

    Pretty sure I talked to him two years ago and he was as obnoxious as I (Assume) he is now. Kind of a shame he hasn't matured in those two years.

    I don't know exactly what he is saying, I can't see his messages, so judging by your interaction it's nothing wholesome.

  • @bloodybil Normally I have loot and I sail it to the red cause Id rather see it sink than go to a raider

  • @kalgert Thanks I apprecite that I think youre right

  • @kalgert said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @count-drogos I don't think talking to the guy is a worthwhile endeavor.

    Pretty sure I talked to him two years ago and he was as obnoxious as I (Assume) he is now. Kind of a shame he hasn't matured in those two years.

    I don't know exactly what he is saying, I can't see his messages, so judging by your interaction it's nothing wholesome.

    So this guy doesn't know what I write but disagrees, simply because we disagreed years ago on the PVE/PVP topic. Talk about maturity.

  • @bloodybil Weve simply said all there is to say and I dont think were going to see eye to eye or even empathize with each other so it seems like a waste of time when I could be sailing trying to Get Gud

  • @bloodybil said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @bloodybil Well then happy trolling. Congrats on taking pleasure in helping drive players out of the game. You obviously seem to prioritize yourself vs the whole. Personally Id like to everyone win and get what they want. But in general bullies seldom chose to to face those with an equal propensity for confrontation so it makes sense theyd target the unwilling. At least in the digital space theres no real threat and they can live out whatever power fantasies thrill them. To me that seems reprehensible.

    Thanks, I'll keep driving players away from the game by chasing them to donate loot!
    Keep trying to look virtuous and assign malicious intents to everybody you encounter instead of communicating with them.

    You gotta do a stealth trade and swap their loot for yours.
    Or have one crew member spawnkill them while you fill their barrels with supplies and dump treasure on their ship.

  • @scheneighnay See THAT would be COOL

  • @count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

    @bloodybil Weve simply said all there is to say and I dont think were going to see eye to eye or even empathize with each other so it seems like a waste of time when I could be sailing trying to Get Gud

    I guess not, I suppose my point is that there will be people with all kinds of intentions on the sea, best not take people's actions too personally nor judge books by their covers. You can get attacked and end up making friends with your opponents with a bit of good sportsmanship.

    The other one I've been keeping for the last few years (and which @kalgert vehemently disagreed with) is that PVE and PVP goes hand in hand, that's the core of the game and won't change. PVP is still not toxic.

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