Bittersweet experience

  • KillaKelso
    Castaway

    Just starting playing SoT a couple weeks ago and wanted to share the experience with my son. We loaded up the sloop and started a gold hoarders voyage. We spent a few hours sailing to different islands and collecting map pieces and finally got a vault key. All our work was finally going to pay off. We make it to Krakens fall and before we can get off the ship we get blown up and a reaper ship steals all our loot along with the vault key...

    This is not another pvpve thread. This is a my son and I will never play this game again thread and its a shame. You tell us this is just how it is and work at it and get good. We'll good luck getting better at pvp when there is nowhere to learn, you just get bodied by players who have been doing this for years. The bottom line is this is not a fun experience for new players and your game is going suffer in the long run. Cheers

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  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    I've played a long time, have enjoyed much of the experience
    but I understand

    it's not for everyone, it's a tough loss for some
    you aren't wrong for that
    it's just an incompatible experience

    hopefully one day you and your son sail again
    until then I hope you both find something that delivers what you are looking for

  • twodozenrats
    Master

    @killakelso
    What are you suggesting be changed?

  • Red0Demon0
    Commander
    Insider

    Well there are other games out there where you and your son can play together. I wish you luck in your endeavors to find them and play them together. The game won't suffer, it's been 4 years now since the game released, it's still managing well for a reason. The same way I doubt people such as yourself will suffer if they stopped playing this game (Unless they count the money already spent on it), No worries though, to each their own.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @red0demon0 said in Bittersweet experience:

    Well there are other games out there where you and your son can play together. I wish you luck in your endeavors to find them and play them together. The game won't suffer, it's been 4 years now since the game released, it's still managing well for a reason. The same way I doubt people such as yourself will suffer if they stopped playing this game (Unless they count the money already spent on it), No worries though, to each their own.

    Retention struggles are a real issue with this game

    this game does fine at bringing people in to play a few sessions and buying a pet and a shipset, it struggles beyond that with activity that is necessary for strong organic gameplay on servers,

    consistent strong organic play not being a reality in this game from a risk/reward perspective which is why hopping is such a major part of what people do.

    The newest update being a full court press for seeking longevity because those involved in these decisions know it's necessary to pursue. It's very much focused on trying to hook NEW players.

    The game keeping the lights on doesn't mean that everything is fine, with a 10 year plan and only on year 4 with noticeable retention struggles and risk activity struggles at higher levels it's always something to keep an eye on and to try to work on.

    We need everyone we can get that is willing to play within the rules of the game.

  • Tenriak
    Marauder
    Insider

    Why didn't you just sail away?

  • Metal Ravage
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    I see where you come from, and yes is hard to deal with loss even in a game. Still that is what life is about, face uncertainty, deal with defeat and triumph, learn from experience.

    I think the best way to win is learn from defeat. Your son just completed the tutorial: Welcome to SOT!

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @mr-whaletoes said in Bittersweet experience:

    @killakelso
    What are you suggesting be changed?

    Nothing; this was a feedback thread, not a suggestion one.

  • iPr0jectPat
    Marauder

    @metal-ravage

    This isn't real life. It's a video game, for escapism.

  • Chympa8785
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @killakelso said in Bittersweet experience:

    Just starting playing SoT a couple weeks ago and wanted to share the experience with my son. We loaded up the sloop and started a gold hoarders voyage. We spent a few hours sailing to different islands and collecting map pieces and finally got a vault key. All our work was finally going to pay off. We make it to Krakens fall and before we can get off the ship we get blown up and a reaper ship steals all our loot along with the vault key...

    I mean, just because you play with your son should everyone just go around you? Should everyone give you free loot? You think I don't spend some time doing something and then for ex. sinking to someone? Hell yea I do. Do I go complain on forum? nope.

    The bottom line is this is not a fun experience for new players and your game is going suffer in the long run. Cheers

    I'm actually proud of Rare, I've been reading this type of comments from angry parents since 2018, so many people have been saying your game will diiiiiiiie, but guess what, it's only better. like an aged wine xd

  • Chympa8785
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @fretfulfiber809 said in Bittersweet experience:

    @zexyony They don't have any actual competition in the genre. There's no other first person co-op pirate game. Plenty of PvP ones, but no PvE ones.

    Not sure where you going with this, who's problem is that they have no competition? SOT is such a great game, especially seeing it develop from the beginning, if you compare the game when it was released to what it is right now, oh my.

  • Metal Ravage
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @ipr0jectpat said in Bittersweet experience:

    @metal-ravage

    This isn't real life. It's a video game, for escapism.

    In this case the video game imitated life it seems.

  • Chympa8785
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @fretfulfiber809 said in Bittersweet experience:

    @zexyony said in Bittersweet experience:

    @fretfulfiber809 said in Bittersweet experience:

    @zexyony They don't have any actual competition in the genre. There's no other first person co-op pirate game. Plenty of PvP ones, but no PvE ones.

    Not sure where you going with this, who's problem is that they have no competition? SOT is such a great game, especially seeing it develop from the beginning, if you compare the game when it was released to what it is right now, oh my.

    The game can't really die if there's no competition.

    You're wrong. There is bunch of examples on internet of dead games.

    People like me and my friends deal with the toxic and otherwise annoying forced PvP because there isn't another choice to go to. If there were, we'd be playing that instead.

    I don't agree with you at all, there is no such thing as "forced PVP". You're expected to die and lose your loot and that's fine, game literally named Sea of THIEVES. If you think you will log in, get all the loot and no one will touch you, what's the point of the game? Where's the fun? It's the beauty of the game where you get krakened, some gally get's on you tail, you run, you fight, this is fun. Everyone needs to earn their loot. If you say it's "forcing" you, why even play then? Or just go play on allience server where no one will touch you, have fun.

  • Chympa8785
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @fretfulfiber809 said in Bittersweet experience:

    @zexyony The point of the game is to experience the content that's in it? What is it with you guys and not understanding people can enjoy THE GAME and not the people who play it? I enjoy the exploration and riddles and treasure hunting, especially with my friends. I don't enjoy other people I don't invite.

    I have nothing against people exploring, doing riddles, treasure hunting, I do that all as well, but PVP is part of the game and no one will ask you if they’re invited to your party or not 😂

  • Chympa8785
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @fretfulfiber809 said in Bittersweet experience:

    @zexyony said in Bittersweet experience:

    @fretfulfiber809 said in Bittersweet experience:

    @zexyony The point of the game is to experience the content that's in it? What is it with you guys and not understanding people can enjoy THE GAME and not the people who play it? I enjoy the exploration and riddles and treasure hunting, especially with my friends. I don't enjoy other people I don't invite.

    I have nothing against people exploring, doing riddles, treasure hunting, I do that all as well, but PVP is part of the game and no one will ask you if they’re invited to your party or not 😂

    Congrats, that's why people like the OP and several others think you guys suck.

    I mean, you’re out of this world if you think you will play multiplayer game with millions of players and they will not attack you just because you didn’t “invite” them where PVP is the part of the game 😂 this is by far one the funniest things I heard in sot xd

    And who is toxic here, you said I suck, believe it or not, I never ever in game called someone suck or something in this form.

  • Grog Minto
    Master
    Insider

    @fretfulfiber809 said in Bittersweet experience:

    What is it with you guys and not understanding people can enjoy THE GAME and not the people who play it?

    Honestly I think that's because our perspective is really far removed from yours. Personally I find that the people who play SoT are the core element of the game. I wouldn't play SoT if it wasn't a Shared World experience.

    When I think back about the game, I don't think about the riddles I solved or the vault I emptied, I think about the time where I've been sunk by a Galleon but still managed to negociate their loot in exchange of my sloop so they could have some buddy join them (I had maybe 100k on board and logged off making more than a million). Or the time where I was solo'ing an Ashen lord and some Galleon faked an Alliance until it was defeated and I ended up fighting them and made them run from me (they had to put their loot in a Rowboat and lure me away in order to sell). Or the time when my crew and I bamboozled a 2 ships alliance in order to take the FotD. You get the gist.

    So yeah, to me the game and the people who play it are the same thing. I assume it's the case for many and for us making the distinction feels weird I guess.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @fretfulfiber809 said in Bittersweet experience:

    @zexyony The point of the game is to experience the content that's in it? What is it with you guys and not understanding people can enjoy THE GAME and not the people who play it? I enjoy the exploration and riddles and treasure hunting, especially with my friends. I don't enjoy other people I don't invite.

    You go in with the understanding that it is a shared open-world experience. If you think it's just you and your crew? Oof.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @grog-minto said in Bittersweet experience:

    @fretfulfiber809 said in Bittersweet experience:

    What is it with you guys and not understanding people can enjoy THE GAME and not the people who play it?

    Honestly I think that's because our perspective is really far removed from yours. Personally I find that the people who play SoT are the core element of the game. I wouldn't play SoT if it wasn't a Shared World experience.

    When I think back about the game, I don't think about the riddles I solved or the vault I emptied, I think about the time where I've been sunk by a Galleon but still managed to negociate their loot in exchange of my sloop so they could have some buddy join them (I had maybe 100k on board and logged off making more than a million). Or the time where I was solo'ing an Ashen lord and some Galleon faked an Alliance until it was defeated and I ended up fighting them and made them run from me (they had to put their loot in a Rowboat and lure me away in order to sell). Or the time when my crew and I bamboozled a 2 ships alliance in order to take the FotD. You get the gist.

    So yeah, to me the game and the people who play it are the same thing. I assume it's the case for many and for us making the distinction feels weird I guess.

    💯

  • Chympa8785
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @fretfulfiber809 said in [Bittersweet experience]the distinction feels weird I guess.

    I can have all that fun with my friends against Skeletons or Krakens or Megs. I know that because we've played 2000 hours of GTAO private sessions and 1000 hours of Payday 2 together. I'm sorry you guys don't have someone you can enjoy a game together with.

    I’m speechless. 😂
    You know what, next time I will take your advice, and when someone will attack me I will say I didn’t invite you to my party, go away. 🎉

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @fretfulfiber809 said:

    I'm sorry you guys don't have someone you can enjoy a game together with.

    We have a wolf in sheep's clothing here, me thinks - passive aggressive to the extreme.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @fretfulfiber809 said in Bittersweet experience:

    @galactic-geek said in Bittersweet experience:

    @fretfulfiber809 said:

    I'm sorry you guys don't have someone you can enjoy a game together with.

    We have a wolf in sheep's clothing here, me thinks - passive aggressive to the extreme.

    Nah I'm pretty aggressive when people anger me. I'm just not allowed to express it since apparently teenagers can't know naughty words.

    Rule of thumb: if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. This forum does have a code of conduct. I suggest following it, or there may potentially be consequences.

  • Grog Minto
    Master
    Insider

    @fretfulfiber809 a dit dans Bittersweet experience :

    I'm sorry you guys don't have someone you can enjoy a game together with.

    You seem to always view the people you disagree with from the worst possible angle.

  • KillaKelso
    Castaway

    I think my main issue is they decided to create an entire faction who's sole purpose is to sink other players. This rewards toxic behavior and encourages people to seek enjoyment in a game by ruining someone else's session. I am not saying pvp is inherently bad I do believe it can make the game exciting. I am saying with no way to opt out of it there is no way to learn the game and enjoy any other play styles.

    If pvp was so great and those players just wanted to pvp and not be toxic then arena would still be a thing but it's not.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @killakelso said in Bittersweet experience:

    I think my main issue is they decided to create an entire faction who's sole purpose is to sink other players. This rewards toxic behavior and encourages people to seek enjoyment in a game by ruining someone else's session. I am not saying pvp is inherently bad I do believe it can make the game exciting. I am saying with no way to opt out of it there is no way to learn the game and enjoy any other play styles.

    If pvp was so great and those players just wanted to pvp and not be toxic then arena would still be a thing but it's not.

    Reapers being a pvp faction is more of an assumption and a desire for some than a fact

    Reapers is simply high risk high reward with an opt in flag system, a flag system that people cheese regularly without needing to pvp, finding flags/trading flags/being gifted flags/ etc

    Reapers is far more of a longevity booster for experienced pirates that have done everything and appreciate some extra risk/reward than a pvp faction.

    That has been shown over time as it's much more common to find reapers engaging in pve a majority of the session than attempting to pvp.

    Is there some incentive to encounter players? for some but player fighting/pvping is never as efficient over time as pve in the organic experience.

  • E3pos
    Master
    Insider

    @killakelso said in Bittersweet experience:

    I think my main issue is they decided to create an entire faction who's sole purpose is to sink other players. This rewards toxic behavior and encourages people to seek enjoyment in a game by ruining someone else's session. I am not saying pvp is inherently bad I do believe it can make the game exciting. I am saying with no way to opt out of it there is no way to learn the game and enjoy any other play styles.

    If pvp was so great and those players just wanted to pvp and not be toxic then arena would still be a thing but it's not.

    If there was an option to opt out of it, how many pve crews do you think would opt in to have a risk? I personally think that it would change the whole dynamic of the game. There would be no more treasure to steal and the game would become sea of murder instead of sea of thieves.
    Also I think you might not have complete view on why arena failed.
    Yes, there was a lot of toxicity, granted. But also take into consideration that 2 lobbies of arena could make up twice as many players that people would see over the course of 2 weeks of playing. Negligence coming from rare in the form of no updates to arena, exclusion from seasonal progression system, ranked, numerous bugs.

    Anyway, coming back to your original post. My 6 year old wanted to play sot with me, so I bought him the game. I am mostly pvp player and he likes killing skeletons more.
    Before I got it for him I did explain to him troughly that there is danger of other pirates, our treasure being stolen. Us stealing other people treasure. Explaining him between differences of toxicity and just playing the game the way you like. It's about going in with right expectations. While I do agree that rare should do a little better job in their trailers to make known that pvp is a core aspect of the game and people can loose hours of work, I also think that some responsibility also lies with the customer. Especially when they want to play with their kid/kids.

    I hope you and your son can look past that incident and give sot another shot. There are numerous ways to reduce the risk of pvp encounter if that isn't what you are into and many here would be willing to help with that.

  • Chympa8785
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @killakelso said in Bittersweet experience:

    I think my main issue is they decided to create an entire faction who's sole purpose is to sink other players. This rewards toxic behavior and encourages people to seek enjoyment in a game by ruining someone else's session. I am not saying pvp is inherently bad I do believe it can make the game exciting. I am saying with no way to opt out of it there is no way to learn the game and enjoy any other play styles.

    See, in multiplayer games where you kill other players will always be some kind of trash talk and there is nothing you can do. The "toxicity" in this game is not even close to what some of the games have, you will be surprised.

  • LassiDaGreat
    Seafarer

    Imagine if it was impossible to turn off items or stage hazards in Super Smash Bros because the developers intended for it to be a party game and not a serious fighting game.

  • Hefty Henri
    Marauder

    There's hundreds of games you can play with your son without being ganked by other players. Lots of people still don't seem to understand the kind of game this is. The danger of being sunk by other players is what keeps the experience from being a repetitive slog.

    It's like playing DayZ and complaining you got shot by a player while you just tried to gather food. The other players being a danger around you (or sometimes a help if you run into the other type of people) is the whole point.

    You bought and installed the game knowing it's multiplayer. What made you think you were never going to run into player conflict?

  • Magus104
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @killakelso This is sadly why 30 million people have quit the game. The PvE grind is long and especially if youre new theres no balanced way to play and learn. Sounds like you should have stopped to sell if you spent a few hours playing. You dont want to hoard the loot. Its weird how different peoples mentalities are. I find that kids dont mind getting sunk as much as adults do. They dont view the game in the same was in terms of feeling the time spent was wasted as where the older you are the more i think people value their time so a game like this where the only progression is selling your loot which can easily be stolen is a huge down side

  • KillaKelso
    Castaway

    I will say I'm actually impressed at how the community and post has responded respectfully for the most part. I do believe there are some valid points there. Would I personally have a pve mode absolutely but I am not a game developer I just get salty sometimes.

    Anyway we gave it another shot; avoided world events, did not raise an emissary flag and kept an eye on the map. Cleared a vault and even beat a kraken.

  • Red0Demon0
    Commander
    Insider

    @killakelso said in Bittersweet experience:

    I think my main issue is they decided to create an entire faction who's sole purpose is to sink other players. This rewards toxic behavior and encourages people to seek enjoyment in a game by ruining someone else's session. I am not saying pvp is inherently bad I do believe it can make the game exciting. I am saying with no way to opt out of it there is no way to learn the game and enjoy any other play styles.

    If pvp was so great and those players just wanted to pvp and not be toxic then arena would still be a thing but it's not.

    Regardless of arena though, people will still do pvp in adventure mode, it's just the only mode that gives off that true pirate life experience. The game has always been like that, pvp, and yes reapers sucks if you are an emissary, but chances are that if a crew is into pvp, they will want to join the reapers faction already, and not the other way around. I believe thee main issue isn't with how reapers plays but on how the games mechanics are taken advantage of to get the better off of others (Or to escape others).

    That's not to say that this game is constantly filled with pvp players, you will find a huge time of the game is spent without seeing another ship throughout the server, and a times you will find a ship in every other moment possible. As for learning experiences, there's one in every single moment in the game. I 'm sure you can remember that same scenario that you had and figure out things that you could have done better. The entirety of Sea of Thieves is a learning experience, from different ship speeds, to how to maneuver situations, to even planning ahead for the worst possible outcome and being one step ahead from your adversaries. Learning through hardships is one of the many reasons that this game is loved and supported to this day.

  • Glacial Dragon
    Castaway

    @killakelso I hear you man, this game is harder for new players to get into. The typical pro player and by that I mean some one playing this specific title for years with the “well why didn’t you do this or that” or “you should have known” are lazy responses imo especially when you make it known you are new to the game, there’s no way you could have known but of course the pro leet players will beg to differ. I’m sorry you had a bad experience but bad experiences will eventually happen like with any thing where you have to interact with other humans. I’d expect this from GTA online I guess this game doesn’t present itself like that at all but it’s starting to seem like a cartoony pirate version of GTA where people will hop on just to kill you and take your stuff. Good luck

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @killakelso said in Bittersweet experience:

    I will say I'm actually impressed at how the community and post has responded respectfully for the most part. I do believe there are some valid points there. Would I personally have a pve mode absolutely but I am not a game developer I just get salty sometimes.

    Anyway we gave it another shot; avoided world events, did not raise an emissary flag and kept an eye on the map. Cleared a vault and even beat a kraken.

    that's how the game will always be for you

    sometimes you will sink and take tough losses and get frustrated with the game and with people

    and sometimes things will be enjoyable and interesting and exciting and will leave positive impact on your day

    It's always a roller coaster of emotions and outcomes

    The world is never against you, sometimes random hurts and sometimes it's wonderful but it's always random, never malicious

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