Combat Fix: Sword + One Gun = Perfect Combat

  • Salerio
    Captain
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    I've been playing since launch, I wiped decks during the hay-days of double-tap double gunning days.

    I had my fun with Blunder/Pistol at launch. I've enjoyed the Blunder/Sniper following that.

    The most fun I've had in PvP in this game is when I've had a single gun equipped and a sword.

    The most fun I've had in playing against another player is when they have a single gun equipped and a sword.

    It feels natural, it feels piratical...It is the way.

    Double-Gunning makes combat feel punishing and unforgiving for many.

    SUGGESTION: Only allow one gun to be equipped. Force Sword as always equipped. Bring back the legendary pirate battles.
    This isn't Call of Duty.

    Thank you, lads and lasses. Safe travels to you all.

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  • OtherFanboy
    Legend
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    @salerio tools not rules …..also I run sword and gun myself it does great

  • Nawvillus
    Commander
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    Founder

    I don't disagree but after 4 years of Rare not doing that I don't think we are going to see a restriction to one gun system anytime soon plus that would remove a play style in the game. I would rather them balance the guns so none of them have one shot kill potential cough blunderbuss cough or on the extreme side make the guns share the same ammo pool so when you fire one gun you have one less shot for the other.

  • Salerio
    Captain
    Insider

    I think they should add a delay before you can fire with the Eye of Reach to prevent quick-scoping. Quick-scoping doesn't belong in this game.
    I consider myself a 9/10 when it comes to quick-scoping, I'm very good at it...but this isn't the game for it. There should be a 1 second delay before being able to fire after scoping with the eye of reach.

  • Nawvillus
    Commander
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    @salerio I would see that as being possibly annoying if they don't time it right and you end up needing to shoot as soon as you're zoomed in but can't cause the game makes you wait, they could widen the cone when not fully zoomed in to make hip-firing and quick scoping less effective though

  • Salerio
    Captain
    Insider

    @navillicious Yeah...I don't know. It would be nice if they could figure something out. They were really working on combat for awhile there...and now it's been like a year since they've touched it, and it's far from perfect. I just think the game rewards CoD playstyle way too much for what the game is designed to be. You could be the best swordsman on the sea, but if you're going up one of "those" players...you're not surviving that fight, you'll be double-tapped in seconds. It's very punishing for many players. I've been on both sides of it.

  • Hijack Hayes
    Commander
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    I've ran Sword/Blunder for a long time. I don't care about the 'sword lord' accusations, I enjoy using that combo. Probably as part of running helm in arena for so long.

  • Nawvillus
    Commander
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    Founder

    @hijack-hayes Personally I feel like running a sword should be considered standard in a pirate game but I guess that goes to show how effective double gunning is if you get called names for running a sword... in a pirate game lol

  • Hijack Hayes
    Commander
    Insider

    @navillicious yep, anyone who ran sword in Arena, was a sweat and a sword lord. I don't care, I rock my 'swashbuckling sea dog' title a lot.

  • Nawvillus
    Commander
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    @hijack-hayes It's funny cause it's the opposite in adventure at least at this point haha if you're running double gun you're likely also running dark adventurer sails and dark clothing and are an omega-sweat

  • Hijack Hayes
    Commander
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    @navillicious I swear I saw a solo sloop running DA get sank by a kraken yesterday night. It was amazing.

  • Salerio
    Captain
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    @navillicious This. Been seeing a lot of this lately. And honestly...their gameplay sometimes is...well, "questionable" I guess I'll say. Landing 100% of your shots while you're running/jumping at a running/jumping enemy just seems suspicious to me.
    But I digress, sword/pistol feels very piratey. Sword/Blunder feels very piratey. Sword/eye of reach feels...somewhat piratey? Double-gun feels like you're not even playing a pirate game.

  • Red0Demon0
    Commander
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    I have to disagree, sometimes I look to play with a gun and sword, sometimes I like to play with 2 guns. Weapons and combat is already very limited, if anything, this game needs more weapons and combat tools. Restricting weapons , makes it so that players don't have a choice, and just because you find it annoying, doesn't mean others will. What you suggest is already too extreme of a change, removing player choice/ freedom, and weapon selection possibilities. It's a pirate fantasy game, nothing natural about using a flintlock with such speed, frequency, and precision.

  • ScurvyWoof
    Captain

    Ah yes, the lame, old and unoriginal, “This isn’t CoD”. It’s as boring as the “It’s a Pirate Game” argument.
    I’ve said this before. What CoD game has muskets and flintlocks? What CoD game has wooden pirate ship vs wooden pirate ship? What CoD game has a gun system that requires more aim and compensation than most CoD games? ‘Cause it ain’t CoD.

    SoT has the most unique and interesting a combat system I have ever seen and that’s what makes it so fun (and sometimes not cough hit reg). Why in the world would I want to use a sword that is god awful to play with on these servers, for Oceania anyway. The blocks are inconsistent, people hit through your combos and the reach is (with servers) insane.

    Double gunning is not OP.

  • dlCHIEF58
    Champion
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    @salerio said in Combat Fix: Sword + One Gun = Perfect Combat:

    @navillicious This. Been seeing a lot of this lately. And honestly...their gameplay sometimes is...well, "questionable" I guess I'll say. Landing 100% of your shots while you're running/jumping at a running/jumping enemy just seems suspicious to me.
    But I digress, sword/pistol feels very piratey. Sword/Blunder feels very piratey. Sword/eye of reach feels...somewhat piratey? Double-gun feels like you're not even playing a pirate game.

    Someone would like a word with you on that subject.

    That is Edward Teach, AKA Blackbeard. Note the number of guns he has strapped to his chest...and tell him that HE is not "piratey".

  • Nawvillus
    Commander
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    @scurvywoof said in Combat Fix: Sword + One Gun = Perfect Combat:

    Ah yes, the lame, old and unoriginal, “This isn’t CoD”. It’s as boring as the “It’s a Pirate Game” argument.
    I’ve said this before. What CoD game has muskets and flintlocks? What CoD game has wooden pirate ship vs wooden pirate ship? What CoD game has a gun system that requires more aim and compensation than most CoD games? ‘Cause it ain’t CoD.

    SoT has the most unique and interesting a combat system I have ever seen and that’s what makes it so fun (and sometimes not cough hit reg). Why in the world would I want to use a sword that is god awful to play with on these servers, for Oceania anyway. The blocks are inconsistent, people hit through your combos and the reach is (with servers) insane.

    Double gunning is not OP.

    I don't agree with the argument that because the sword is bad double gunning is not OP, that would make it more OP than using a sword and gun if the sword is as inconsistent as you're saying (which I agree, blocking and hit reg are terrible even in the US), sounds like we need to buff sword and fix hitreg no?

  • ScurvyWoof
    Captain

    @navillicious Where the hell did you get ‘buff the sword’ from? It took years for majority of the PvP community to shut up about the damage increase and the stun. Hit reg, well… many attempts have been made.

    Double gun is a class cannon. You have all the damage output, but what do you have to defend against swords that got to close? Maybe a loaded gun.
    They both counter each other, whether people want to believe it or not.

    My main argument was not meant to come off as that, I meant that because the sword is so clunky, I prefer to double gun.

  • Salerio
    Captain
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    @dlchief58 Blackbeard also had a sword at his hip and each gun fired a single shot. Black beard wasn't running around a ship with a musket with a scope attached to it with a clip of five rounds and a blunderbuss with 5 rounds.
    All pirates relied on their sword. The guns were backup, self-defense, last resort weapons for extreme circumstances.

  • Nawvillus
    Commander
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    Founder

    @scurvywoof said in Combat Fix: Sword + One Gun = Perfect Combat:

    @navillicious Where the hell did you get ‘buff the sword’ from? It took years for majority of the PvP community to shut up about the damage increase and the stun. Hit reg, well… many attempts have been made.

    Double gun is a class cannon. You have all the damage output, but what do you have to defend against swords that got to close? Maybe a loaded gun.
    They both counter each other, whether people want to believe it or not.

    My main argument was not meant to come off as that, I meant that because the sword is so clunky, I prefer to double gun.

    I got "buff the sword" from you saying the sword is "god awful" but after re-reading I see you meant in terms of hitreg which, agreed, hitreg is awful regardless of your location in the world. My point still stands though if a growing playerbase prefers to lean into one playstyle over the other because of the effectiveness of that playstyle it turns into a meta and metas are usually perceived as OP at least comparing to what other options there are.

    Personally all I would say in terms of balancing right now would be to remove one shot kill potential from all guns and at the most extreme maybe make the guns use the same ammo pool. Oh and fix hitreg and blocking for swords!

  • dlCHIEF58
    Champion
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    @salerio said in Combat Fix: Sword + One Gun = Perfect Combat:

    @dlchief58 Blackbeard also had a sword at his hip and each gun fired a single shot. Black beard wasn't running around a ship with a musket with a scope attached to it with a clip of five rounds and a blunderbuss with 5 rounds.
    All pirates relied on their sword. The guns were backup, self-defense, last resort weapons for extreme circumstances.

    He wore 6 guns so he didn't have to wait to reload them....like a double gunner would. And not "all" pirates depended upon a sword - time and place you know.

    But at the same time, this game is NOT based on historical pirates so your argument using them as justification for your premise is bunk. This is a pirate FANTASY game, not a historical simulation thus those arguments hold no water here. I used my example to show you that even then you were WRONG.

  • Salerio
    Captain
    Insider

    @navillicious I'd say that's a good starting point. I still think there needs to be a longer delay between shots of both weapons. Quick swap double-tapping is just a really lazy system that they could easily make work better without entirely nerfing double-gunning(if they keep it, which I'm sure they will unfortunately).
    Double-gunning is the current meta, sword does not counter it. Double-gunners don't want their meta-play nerfed and they will argue that the sword counters it. Yes, when you get caught in the sword, you die...but any double-gunner worth half his salt knows how to keep himself at a distance to not get stuck in a sword-tornado. Then the enemy falls back on their single pistol/blunder/eye of reach shot, meanwhile the double-gunner has already landed two shots on them, every time. It's punishing to play against.
    I spent 3 years double-gunning, and still go to it sometimes when I need to, but I prefer not to because I just love the feeling of using the sword in a pirate game, it's rewarding to win a sword fight. Winning a fight with two guns doesn't feel rewarding to me, it feels cheesy&easy.

  • Salerio
    Captain
    Insider

    @dlchief58 No need to be disrespectful, sir. I'm having a valid conversation and I 100% disagree with you, no need to get upset with me and tell me I'm "WRONG".

  • ScurvyWoof
    Captain

    @salerio Let me make something clear. The quick swap argument is invalid as there is a hard lock on the gun pull out time. Sure, you can skip the animation, but you still have to wait for the animation to finish, sort of. It was patched not long after the sword buff, and yet no one seems to realise this.
    If double gunning feels easy/ cheesy, that’s fine, that’s how I feel with the sword. It’s sort of a personal opinion and it’s most definitely a preference. The only way I would accept a one gun, one sword load out is if Rare actually fixed server issues and made the sword less buggy.
    For now, I’ll stick with clunky hit reg.
    @NaviLlicious
    I don’t agree with the nerfing one shot capabilities of the blunderbuss. The whole point of the blunderbuss is to kill your opponents quickly. It’s not hard to dodge, especially with a sword. A shared ammo pool? I mean, if it was 7 shots, maybe… but the blunder uses pellets and the EoR and flintlock are completely different calibres.
    That was very rushed, I’ll try and do better when I get home later.

  • Nawvillus
    Commander
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    Founder

    @scurvywoof If we were going to base balance off "realism" like calibers we wouldn't be able to bunny hop so I don't agree with that being a reason to prevent balancing, if we are going to allow one shot capabilities for one weapon we should allow them for the others as well if a blunderbuss can one shot at close range why can't a sniper one shot headshot? Or the flintlock do more damage on a headshot? The fact that a blunderbuss can one shot kill and provides knockback makes it a better choice than the flintlock. I disagree with giving one weapon a OSK capability and not giving other weapons that same capability especially if the only reason is the point of the gun is to kill people quickly, that's the point of all the guns is to kill someone as fast as possible, I'm okay with the blunderbuss bringing someone down to one shot status if they were at full health like the sniper but outright killing from full health is gonna be a no from me from a balancing perspective.

  • lafrules
    Commander
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    So basically what you are saying is that you had your fun with double gunning and now you prefer a sword and a gun and want the entire world to be forced to follow you because you feel like it? Only one answer to that. Tools not rules.

  • PithyRumble
    Rogue
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    Better idea:

    3 weapons
    Sword required
    Same ammo limits.

    Double Gun and using a Sword!

  • Salerio
    Captain
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    @lafrules Not at all. I still double gun now and then, I just don't think it flows well with the pace of the game and the pace of combat. After four years of constant pvp, and doing a heavy dose of every possible combination, I just think the game is better off without it, or with more fixes/changes made to it.

  • Nawvillus
    Commander
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    @pithyrumble Well that would certainly make it feel like you have a tool for every job without needing to swap out weapons lol

  • lafrules
    Commander
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    @pithyrumble said in Combat Fix: Sword + One Gun = Perfect Combat:

    Better idea:

    3 weapons
    Sword required
    Same ammo limits.

    Double Gun and using a Sword!

    Sure. I’m down for that. Or how about we introduce nuclear weapons and whenever someone has a beef with the game he can just grill us all and we lose everything. I think it would be fair.

  • Nawvillus
    Commander
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    @lafrules I think fallout 76 tried that not sure how well that went

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
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    @navillicious said:

    I would rather them balance the guns so none of them have one shot kill potential cough blunderbuss cough

    There are 30+ ways to avoid being 1-shot by the blunderbuss. If you're dying to it, then that means you have 30+ things that you still have to learn. 😅

  • Nawvillus
    Commander
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    @galactic-geek Yes because me saying I would rather them balance the guns to keep them all in line with each other == me being salty over being killed by a blunderbuss smile.

  • Foxdodge
    Champion
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    Boatswain
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    @lafrules said in Combat Fix: Sword + One Gun = Perfect Combat:

    @pithyrumble said in Combat Fix: Sword + One Gun = Perfect Combat:

    Better idea:

    3 weapons
    Sword required
    Same ammo limits.

    Double Gun and using a Sword!

    Sure. I’m down for that. Or how about we introduce nuclear weapons and whenever someone has a beef with the game he can just grill us all and we lose everything. I think it would be fair.

    Bit of an overreaction to 2 guns and a sword, lol.

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
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    The most fun I've had in playing against another player is when they have a single gun equipped and a sword.

    It feels natural, it feels piratical...It is the way.

    Yup but most people will argue about why they prefer double gun or how having a sword isn’t healthy or it just as broken.

    Sadly. People prefer to win than have fun. Or they have fun DG. Idk
    Heck people rather sink a ship that won’t fight back and call it pvp.

  • SweetSandMan
    Lord
    Insider

    I'd be in support of the gun+sword requirement IF sword wasn't such a spam festival that feels unrewarding to those that actually try to be skillful with the sword.

    Blocking is extremely inconsistent. Sword lunge still has freezing/lockout bugs. The lunge cancel exploit still exists. The range is hysterical at times.

    As server problems have gotten worse, so has sword play.

    The sword used to be really fun...but I don't want to be forced to use it again unless server performance and some other things are addressed first.

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