No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game

Understandable that you would be frustrated during this process.

They are in the position where they need to make sure they are enforcing based on accurate evidence and not anything that has been manipulated or anything that isn't accurate.

We can't examine the evidence here so I can't say anything about specifics but what I can say about people that communicate in that way is that it's typically not an isolated incident and they are likely to get multiple reports with more evidence which will make it likely that they will be held accountable in the end.

@realstyli said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

Sadly, it's becoming less and less common to have wholesome encounters with other crews. So I don't blame folk for muting other crews. I just find it very sad that it's the reality now. Personally, I just keep that setting on a hotkey but keep it active by default.

I wouldn't say there is less wholesomeness to be found I would say that more situations are more often contrived and more people are in their cliques and bubbles within the community.

This is a game where there are still a lot of truly interesting and kind people randomly floating around out there outside of the social parts of the community. With more and more people creating content for this game in one way or another or being a part of other people's content this has lead to more interactions that are about the content and not about the connection. People keeping to their bubbles and their cliques. There are more people that talk to other people like they are content pawns rather than unique adventurers.

Outside of that and outside of the hopping around to sink stacked boats there still exists a lot of opportunity for organic wholesomeness with gentlepirates.

There will always be people that sling insults at random people out of anger or when just looking to upset people.

@realstyli said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

@wolfmanbush

... there still exists a lot of opportunity for organic wholesomeness with gentlepirates

I wish it were more common than it is. I feel that as the game has grown outside its niche and appeal to smaller group of dedicated players, it has brought a lot of disinterest in the social side.

I shouldn't complain, it's just a side effect of its growth in popularity. And the more casual audience is less-inclined to be so community-focused.

This pirate will continue to be the one shouting "ahoy hoy" at every passing player though, in the hopes of sprouting some good memories.

what's community focused? posting on the forums? tweeting? being a part of some twitch chat? volunteer marketing?

that's got nothing to do with adventure and it's not required to be community focused. Casual players meet friends and crews on the game just like anyone else. They figure out their journey just like any of us that have been here a long time did.

the old days of this game were bare bones content that turned into wrecking each other over a fort. The only things that have really worsened are performance of the game and balance within the risk/reward environment. The people are still mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, young people, adventurers, pirates. That part hasn't really changed.

@hijack-hayes said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

I just wondered how they knew?

they likely did not know

people that intend to harm or are looking to see themselves as edgy just throw things out there and anything that upsets someone is enough for them.

If they think they detect something specific they will try what they think will specifically harm.

I have a deep voice so people will go down that lane of insults.

When I sail with a lady pirate the people that communicate like that will go down that lane of insults if they think they hear a female's voice.

In a game like this specifics are largely perceptions of voices and cosmetic choices.

How I personally handle these situations is I withdraw my presence from the situation if I am solo. I practice my life motto of me not being a preacher or a teacher and I deescalate by taking myself somewhere else. Engaging prolongs it and more people might be subjected to it the longer it draws out. I don't talk to them at all, it can stop there.

If I am with someone I ask them to get us another server and I will join them after anyone that is with me leaves. The importance imo in a crew scenario is to get everyone out of the situation without escalation and without feeding those that harshly insult with reactions.

Reporting is what it is, people can approach that however they wish but imo the first priority is removing crew and self from the situation with as little back and forth as possible. Then making sure self and crew are alright so that negativity can be left at sea and everyone can move forward.

@mackdi said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

They would have to ban like half the player base and then they wouldn't make any more for the Microsoft share holders so no they will not ban people for bad behavior. They will let these conservative rude people run their mouths. They will let them do things to you to annoy you til you quit the game. Griefing is the order of the day. Hate is all the rage in society now.

I hear slurs and personal attacks that go beyond mild salt maybe a couple of times a month and I play a lot with a lot of interactions/encounters.

I see stuff like this where people act like they are morally superior and better than large chunks of the population far more often.

there isn't any half or majority of toxicity here. It's random people that occasionally beef and most of the time co-exist just fine.

@like-500-ninjas said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

Facts.
I hate how the majority of solutions for toxicity in this game are "mute them, leave the server, ignore it, don't read messages, etc." Basically if you want to play, you just have to accept this hatred and vitriol as part of your experience OR inconvenience yourself with work arounds that would not be necessary if enforcement were done as it should be.

IF there was a screenshot of said wording and IF it was submitted and found to be not enough proof to enforce action, then there is a huge problem.

Enforcement by its very design is consequences after the fact if there is sufficient evidence to secure accurate accountability.

Nobody can prevent it from randomly happening in a random environment and that's why it's so important that people find ways to handle it so they can carry on in a positive way.

Resentment, anger, carrying the negativity, these are things that will never solve or prevent anything. It only contributes to more negativity. It creates and feeds exaggerated narratives.

@like-500-ninjas said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

@mackdi said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

They would have to ban like half the player base and then they wouldn't make any more for the Microsoft share holders so no they will not ban people for bad behavior. They will let these conservative rude people run their mouths. They will let them do things to you to annoy you til you quit the game. Griefing is the order of the day. Hate is all the rage in society now.

Facts.

Sadly, but facts.

Opinions

what's interesting about that post that you consider to be facts is that it says "let people run their mouths" "let them do things to annoy you"

That's not a battle against toxicity that is a desire for control over others based on personal preferences while using accusatory exaggerations as justification.

Thank goodness people have the opportunity to be different and play a game how they wish. It's largely lead to it succeeding and offering a community to many people looking for one, and an experience that improves their day.

The large majority within this game don't condone slurs. They want nothing to do with that sort of thing. Rare has zero interest in allowing it. Random people enjoying an adventure game are largely not doing anything wrong and it's an injustice to act as if they are to push negative narratives.

@like-500-ninjas said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

@wolfmanbush said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

@like-500-ninjas said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

@mackdi said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

They would have to ban like half the player base and then they wouldn't make any more for the Microsoft share holders so no they will not ban people for bad behavior. They will let these conservative rude people run their mouths. They will let them do things to you to annoy you til you quit the game. Griefing is the order of the day. Hate is all the rage in society now.

Facts.

Sadly, but facts.

Opinions

what's interesting about that post that you consider to be facts is that it says "let people run their mouths" "let them do things to annoy you"

That's not a battle against toxicity that is a desire for control over others based on personal preferences while using accusatory exaggerations as justification.

Thank goodness people have the opportunity to be different and play a game how they wish. It's largely lead to it succeeding and offering a community to many people looking for one, and an experience that improves their day.

The large majority within this game don't condone slurs. They want nothing to do with that sort of thing. Rare has zero interest in allowing it. Random people enjoying an adventure game are largely not doing anything wrong and it's an injustice to act as if they are to push negative narratives.

How much do you get paid as a defense attorney for Rare?

Seriously. Have let some of my friends/coworkers read your post and they are curious as, according to you, the game is perfect, the company is perfect, and if a player has a negative experience, well...their fault.

None of this is a fair or accurate interpretation of the consistency that I put effort to with my opinions and my responses in threads. I disagree with decisions on a regular basis that are made within the game. I disagree with people's opinions daily. I type lengthy posts to make it clear what my actual views are.

I'm curious, when you go around showing people my posts are you showing them to approach the opinions in an objective way or are you showing them so your friends validate the opinion you have of them and are trying to push about them?

I do not believe that most people or half of people are bad, toxic, problematic, apply negative accusation here. I don't believe flaws and mistakes are permanent brandings or indicators of being a bad person or a toxic person.

I do not believe that differences need to lead enemies. I think exaggerations and escalations lead to inaccuracy and destruction. That is consistent messaging that I respond with here. I take objectivity very seriously and popularity isn't something I view as a valuable resource for myself so y'all in that friend/work group can enjoy whatever it is that you are snickering about in my posts.

A large majority of this community including those that work on the product don't want anything to do with slurs or hateful treatment of others. That's not what people are here for and it's not anything people want to see more of.

@like-500-ninjas said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

I don't seek validation from anyone, yourself included, about anything. People form their own opinions.

If they happen to align with mine, it is what it is. I don't see how you can say most people aren't toxic when you can only speak for yourself.

But I digress.

Serious accusations aren't meant to be weapons against people we disagree with or don't like.

People's existences aren't defined by negative opinions of others.

They aren't bad until they prove themselves worthy to those that sling accusations loosely.

They aren't racist until someone determines that they aren't when they have nothing to do hateful communication.

They aren't anything negative by default just because some want to use them as a pawn in a social battle that they have nothing to do with just because they play a pirate game.

That's not how a healthy community operates.

People are individuals, unique, not controlled or defined by the power of opinion that some want to use against them as if giant groups of people are guilty of something because one individual did something or multiple individuals did something in unrelated incidents.

@hawk2148 said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

Reported for not naming and shaming. Those who aren't named and shamed, know they can continue behaving as they do; especially if what OP says is true.

That violates the site rules, it adds more negativity to the environment, and people that enjoy getting people riled up don't mind having people getting riled up about them on a site.

@hawk2148 said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

@wolfmanbush said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

@hawk2148 said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

Reported for not naming and shaming. Those who aren't named and shamed, know they can continue behaving as they do; especially if what OP says is true.

That violates the site rules, it adds more negativity to the environment, and people that enjoy getting people riled up don't mind having people getting riled up about them on a site.

I'd love to see an example of this.

Otherwise, I would rather name and shame and call them out for their toxicity rather than hope that the devs might do something about them....maybe....one day

Sounds like you are far more interested in holding and exercising power than reasonably holding someone accountable based on possibly breaking rules in a game.

Someone violating rules of a product with verbal behavior doesn't justify doing whatever a person wants to them.

Removal of access to the product based on harsh breaking of the product's rules would be an appropriate consequence.

Power without accountability in the name of justice isn't justice it's just self serving revenge and a contributor to more harm.

@hawk2148 said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

@wolfmanbush said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

@hawk2148 said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

@wolfmanbush said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

@hawk2148 said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

Reported for not naming and shaming. Those who aren't named and shamed, know they can continue behaving as they do; especially if what OP says is true.

That violates the site rules, it adds more negativity to the environment, and people that enjoy getting people riled up don't mind having people getting riled up about them on a site.

I'd love to see an example of this.

Otherwise, I would rather name and shame and call them out for their toxicity rather than hope that the devs might do something about them....maybe....one day

Sounds like you are far more interested in holding and exercising power than reasonably holding someone accountable based on possibly breaking rules in a game.

Someone violating rules of a product with verbal behavior doesn't justify doing whatever a person wants to them.

Removal of access to the product based on harsh breaking of the product's rules would be an appropriate consequence.

Power without accountability in the name of justice isn't justice it's just self serving revenge and a contributor to more harm.

What are you getting at?

Calling them out would be bringing those into account. Maybe if these kinds of players have enough players who don't like being with them, they may just stop or curtail it. Especially if reporting them and showing proof of their toxic language or behavior that is also against the rules will do nothing. Look at OP's post.

idk, does anybody else have issues with the current report system? Does it even work? If so, how effective is it?

Where will the accountability be in the escalation you will be contributing to? Are you going to decide when enough harm has been done? You decide when justice has been served after you dish it out?

@hawk2148 said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

What harm?

"Hey guys, (player name here) has been (insert obviously against-the-rules toxic attitude/behavior that is obviously not to be tolerated or accepted as okay) and let us not interact with this player so they can play alone or something."

I have my doubts that this would stay where you claim it would.

Would you like to hang out with a racist even after you know what they do in their free time?

Depends on if someone is looking to change their approach to the environment and their views on existence or if they are looking to stay in the negativity that they are currently living in.

I wasn't always how I work consistently at being today. I spent a lot of time communicating and behaving in a negative way and a way that I find unacceptable for myself now. I've said hurtful things, I've been mean to people. I've been insensitive to the feelings of others. I've been unfair to others.

I believe in people's ability to change and I believe in a system that aims to support improvement, not just punishment based on revenge.

@hawk2148 said in No wonder there is a lot of toxicity in this game:

You apparently seem unaware that such people are more likely to become more entrenched into their bad behaviors if allowed to continue without repercussions.

How do you know if they are changing their ways if nobody tells them what they're doing is bad or unacceptable?

Also many people know what they're doing is bad and that's why they do it, trolls basically. What I mentioned is not to be interpreted as me wanting to start witch hunts. It is simply to say "Hey this guy is doing loathsome things and let's just not play with him so he can't bother us anymore as much as possible."

Often times people are operating without hope and direction. Shame digs the hole deeper, it causes people to adapt to avoid the consequence instead of trying to connect in a way that allows them to pursue change.

The best you can ever do for the journey of another is offer opportunity for them to find inspiration in the consistency of your decency and objectivity, within that, integrity. The more you value those around you and the more positivity you offer the more visible it becomes. The more potential that energy has to assist another in finding a more positive way to approach their life and others they meet along the way.

Leadership is always service. It's not punishment, it's not shame, it's not serving self it's self accountability for our own actions towards others. It's supporting where support is needed, it's building and growing, it's not tearing others down, that just creates more destruction.