Limited-Time Cosmetics

  • There's been a lot of general talk about limited-time stuff lately. Here's what I think, in general:

    The Greed
    There is greed both ways (I'm generalizing here, everyone's different)

    The player who owns the item has greed to keep those items as exclusive as possible.

    The player who doesn't own the item is greedy to get those items, and they can justify their entitlement to getting those items in all sorts of ways.

    It's just greed vs. greed, and the difference is that the player who owns the item has actually done the work/was there at the right time.
    It's funny that the people that want to keep their exclusive items exclusive get painted in a negative light, when the desire to get access to those items comes from the same place of greed.
    So, arguments like "it's just pixels, why not give it up" or "You shouldn't be worried about what other players have, you got it your way and that's all that matters" are just hollow. Because the greed works both ways, those arguments work both ways. "It's just pixels, why do you need it so much?" or "You shouldn't be worried about what other players have, just have your experiences and get what you can, that's all that matters."
    In my mind, it's pointless to talk about how shallow others are for wanting to keep something exclusive. And just as pointless to call out someone's greed in wanting a long-gone item. I mean, it's a good thing to say in some scenarios, but that kind of thing was never the point of time-limited items.


    The Memories
    Rare has made it clear that time-limited cosmetics are made to represent a memory, and so when you put all your cosmetics together, it represents your personal experience on the Sea of Thieves. When I see my Hungering Deep Tattoo, I think of the Hungering Deep update. It's not just about keeping promises (which is a big factor in it, yes), it's also about making sure that only those who have a memory attached to those cosmetics are allowed to have it.

    To those who say "I have the cosmetic, and I don't care if others get it." Well, I applaud you, you fantastical non-greedy person. Most likely, you don't attach your sense of accomplishment/memories to your items as much as others. And that's fine. But try to understand those that do tie their items to accomplishments and memories. Just because you don't care doesn't mean that others shouldn't.

    One of the best moments when meeting someone new is seeing what you have in common at a glance. The silhouette of the Bone Crusher hat is quite iconic! And, when you see that hat, you think of the good times that you had trying to perfectly cannon up to that darned spot on Plunder Outpost. It's been almost 4 years since those skeleton thrones, and yet you can still connect with someone else through a shared player experience.
    If that hat and the jacket/dress were to be given out to anyone that wanted it, not only would it disrespect the time you put in to earn them back in the day, but it also means that you can no longer identify those that participated in skeleton thrones. What is happening is the connection between the memory and the item is severed for some and devalued for others. Now you can't connect through a shared experience. And, as much as I disagree, I can see how even recolors can devalue a set for some people.

    Players who want access to time-limited items are just greedy to get them. Whether or not they notice, they are also trying to erase the significance of playing Sea of Thieves in the past and making memories.


    Why it's good right now
    I like how time-limited stuff is working now, we get an Adventure every month and a Memento to go along with it. The wording they use in this description of Adventure rewards tells me that they are trying to get ahead of people complaining about their time-limited nature.
    I like the idea of giving us things to remember events by rather than full sets of items (though full sets of time limited items is really cool, it's not the best for new players, I'll admit). Then we can have things to remember the lore happenings by without putting it in the face of others as much.


    Time-limited is necessary
    Sea of Thieves is an online game. It needs constant player engagement to stay running. So, just like any other continuous online game, it needs constant incentives to push players into the game. This usually results in time-limited items. And this is sort of a reward for Y1 players, they played the game when it was objectively the worst (I loved it though, Hungering Deep, Cursed Sails, and Forsaken Shores were the best and I have always wished for PvP like the original forts).
    To summarize that, time limited items incentivize play into a game and then reward that player with something for keeping the game running in that time. This is why items like the Launch Crew Eye of Reach and the 1000 Days Golden Eyepatch feel so good to own... they are a reward for supporting the game when no reward was expected.


    Of course, most of the time-limited speak recently is about the Arena. My thoughts can be applied directly to the Arena, and I'll let you do the thinking on that matter. For instance, my last paragraph about "a reward for supporting the game when no reward was expected" should be applied directly to the 6 ships of Arena: An extra reward for playing Arena when no extra reward was expected.

    I hope that Rare continues to give us reasonable time-limited items in the future that do not alienate our new players. Whether we like it or not, they are key to giving us reasons to keep playing through new events. I can't wait to see what's in store for the future and I hope everyone does well!

    I don't feel like making a TL;DR this time... good luck.

    Oh, and if you're replying to this post, if it's not too much trouble, please @ me so I can see it as soon as possible. I often forget to check these things.

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  • @grumpyw01f You summed it up very well about the double standard greed thing. I never really thought of it that way, so thank you for giving me your perspective mate!

  • This sums it up well Rare just made the error since the start of Seasons for some reason to stop making any good time limited cosmetics so as a result when the bring back all old PL rewards players will have nothing to show for the time.

    They should be consistent with the time limited rewards so that players can always have items to be fond of!

  • @grumpyw01f said in Limited-Time Cosmetics:

    To those who say "I have the cosmetic, and I don't care if others get it." Well, I applaud you, you fantastical non-greedy person. Most likely, you don't attach your sense of accomplishment/memories to your items as much as others. And that's fine. But try to understand those that do tie their items to accomplishments and memories. Just because you don't care doesn't mean that others shouldn't.

    It isn't that I don't understand the concept, I do. I don't really even disagree with it to an extent. I guess I usually err on the side of making cosmetics available to all because when it comes down to a choice between inclusion and exclusion, I tend to lean towards inclusion as a rule.

    I've always had a very self-contained point of view, so as you said, what other people have doesn't bother me. I love my launch crew EoR because it fits my pirate's style of a patchwork sea-hobo. And if Rare were to make it available to everyone, that wouldn't change.

    Cosmetics can be a collection of memories about your journey, but I still can't quite understand why others having them effects your memories. From my perspective, that implies that the memories aren't enough. You also need the knowledge that others envy you for it to mean anything. And personally, that makes me feel weird.

    "So you don't want ANY time-limited cosmetics?"

    No, I don't want to get rid of all time-limited cosmetics. Just because I feel they're unnecessary doesn't mean I don't recognize that many people DO enjoy them. And I want them to be satisfied too. Basically, for me, it's all about moderation. Time-limited cosmetics are fine, but reasonably implemented.

    Funnily enough, despite my seudo rebuttal to your post, I'm pretty satisfied with time-limited cosmetics at the moment as well. The season rewards are free to unlock (or at a heavy discount if they require the Plunder Pass) and become available in the emporium later on. The adventure compass is time-limited, but the adventure is pretty easy to complete and there's only one.

    All that seems fair to me and I trust Rare to keep a good balance between inclusion and exclusivity. You can see it in the Tall Tales. The "repeat five times" goals from the Shores of Gold are mostly gone and the cosmetic rewards are often the second to the last reward with the 100% completion one being taken over by titles.

    The Arena thing, I don't know. I'll leave that to Rare as well.

    So yeah, I'm pretty satisfied at the moment. It's not that I don't think there shouldn't be exclusive cosmetics, either time-limited or super expensive. I just always want to be the voice of caution. Seeing how other games have taken cosmetics and turned them into some kind of elitist tier system, communities bullying each other in game over the skins they do or don't have, or players simply claiming superiority over others because of what cosmetics they've unlocked.

    I just don't want any of that to happen in SoT. This game has struck such a magical balance between competitive and casual; between exciting and relaxing that I'd hate to see it ruined.

    So I guess my overall point is, I agree that things are in a good place right now, but let's not get carried away. =)

  • @nitroxien
    I agree.
    New players see these time-limited cosmetics that Y1 players have, but they never got to earn their own. It kinda messes with the idea of everyone having something that marks times they played. Even though Seasons give new time-limited sets, they are extremely easy and don't directly tie in to the things players do at those times. The same can be said for the new Adventures, but the 3-week window helps.

  • @ [badword] hombre
    I'm going to clarify my position; I don't want to rebutt your viewpoint, which is completely valid.

    Cosmetics can be a collection of memories about your journey, but I still can't quite understand why others having them effects your memories. From my perspective, that implies that the memories aren't enough. You also need the knowledge that others envy you for it to mean anything. And personally, that makes me feel weird.

    When someone wants an exact time-limited cosmetic, I just see the greed for wanting it and I don't want that to be catered to (which is my greed, of course). If a time-limited cosmetic is re-released, it doesn't devalue memories, but it does cheapen the connection between the memories and the item in question.
    I think the biggest problem with re-releasing limited time cosmetics is from my original post:

    One of the best moments when meeting someone new is seeing what you have in common at a glance. The silhouette of the Bone Crusher hat is quite iconic! And, when you see that hat, you think of the good times that you had trying to perfectly cannon up to that darned spot on Plunder Outpost. It's been almost 4 years since those skeleton thrones, and yet you can still connect with someone else through a shared player experience.
    If that hat and the jacket/dress were to be given out to anyone that wanted it, not only would it disrespect the time you put in to earn them back in the day, but it also means that you can no longer identify those that participated in skeleton thrones. Now you can't connect through a shared experience. And, as much as I disagree, I can see how even recolors can devalue a set for some people.

    I like looking at the clothes of pirates I meet and see where they've been and what we've both done in the past. I know who has done the experience in question. If the item gets re-released, there's no way for me to tell these things.
    This is why recolors are perfect on inclusion vs. exclusivity in my book. With a quick glance, you can tell if something is a recolor or the original look, so you can see people who were part of the event in question and who just like the look of it.

  • @grumpyw01f said in Limited-Time Cosmetics:

    I like looking at the clothes of pirates I meet and see where they've been and what we've both done in the past.

    Yeah, since I'm always solo and my reaction to most incoming ships is to make myself scarce, I rarely get close and/or calm enough to pick out what they're wearing.

    But my playstyle is a bit atypical, so that's really just on me. =P

    This is why recolors are perfect on inclusion vs. exclusivity in my book.

    I am 100% with you on this. Honestly, I thought recolors where a great solution for the exclusive item debate. I didn't even mention them in my original post because in my experience, those who are really into time-limited stuff are usually also against recolors.

    I'm pleased to find that's not the case. Bravo, sir.

    alt text

  • I absolutely love recolors! Not only for inclusive vs exclusive, but also the chance to see more colors on the seas!
    Just because something is exclusive doesn't mean that the set should be lost to us. While our mementos of times long gone should stay only in our hands, that doesn't mean we have the right to keep anything in that likeness gone forever.

  • I agree with what you’ve written here and think you explained yourself very well. I like the time limited cosmetics & the idea of them being the memories of our adventures now.

    I’m mostly a new player; I did play for a couple weeks when the game first launched but I missed the items from that time. I’m not upset about it, I simply wasn’t as engaged as others at the time. I think it’s cool that there’s a whole history of stuff from before I returned to the game.

    I’m looking forward to what this year brings to the SOT

  • Time limited cosmetics are good in the form of mementos we seem to be getting from Adventures because it’s one item with meaning. The problem however was when it was sets such as Bone Crusher, Forsaken Ashes, Wailing Barnacle, and the Mercenary set. These all have about half of their set available in the shops regularly but the other half of the set were exclusive to an event and are unattainable. While I have these, it doesn’t make much sense if a new player or someone who maybe didn’t play then likes one of these sets but couldn’t ever actually get all of its parts to finish it. This is why the memento system works better because it’s its own one of thing that is meaningful to the adventure and doesn’t alter the completion of any set. This is at least the way I feel it would work best for everyone so I hope it continues.

  • Agreed 100%.

    I just simply see time limited cosmetics like this:

    Cosmetics are a large way in which we tell our own individual stories and adventures that we've been on throughout the game's life. Seeing old cosmetics such as the Bonecrusher Ship, Hungering One Figurehead, etc, is visual proof of someone's dedication to the game in its earliest days. It shows that the player sporting said cosmetic was dedicated enough to not only take part in the event during its live time, but also saved up their hard-earned doubloons (let's remember how hard it was to obtain doubloons originally with a set amount being added each update, forcing the player to choose what cosmetics they want) to get the cosmetics they wanted.

    Those cosmetics are unique to the event they were a part of, and keeping those sacred to those who participated only makes sense. There's nothing wrong with recolors (save maybe for the Ferryman set, that should 1000% stay unique to those who got the controller) that players can obtain at any new point, as it allows for people to have something similar, but not OG.

  • @valor-omega speaking of recolors, in that old google drive data mine from 2018 I believe there is in fact a recolor of the Ferryman jacket. The difference is that it doesn’t have the ferryman insignia on it. It’s just a plain version. In game however we have the ferryman boots recolor that came in as part of the general pirate clothing addition to the shops. This jacket could be put in just like that.

  • @illbushido305 I'd be fine with that! I'm more meaning if the actual ferryman set is re-released or given away.

  • @valor-omega they’ve said that won’t be returning so you can rest assured.

  • @illbushido305 That's good, at least. I would definitely be interested to see if they will release the jacket variant, as I'd love it in another color! What is color is the datamined one?

  • @grumpyw01f said in Limited-Time Cosmetics:

    There's been a lot of general talk about limited-time stuff lately. Here's what I think, in general:

    The Greed
    There is greed both ways (I'm generalizing here, everyone's different)

    The player who owns the item has greed to keep those items as exclusive as possible.

    The player who doesn't own the item is greedy to get those items, and they can justify their entitlement to getting those items in all sorts of ways.

    It's just greed vs. greed, and the difference is that the player who owns the item has actually done the work/was there at the right time.
    It's funny that the people that want to keep their exclusive items exclusive get painted in a negative light, while the desire to get access to those items comes from the same place of greed.
    So, arguments like "it's just pixels, why not give it up" or "You shouldn't be worried about what other players have, you got it your way and that's all that matters" are just hollow. Because the greed works both ways, those arguments work both ways. "It's just pixels, why do you need it so much?" or "You shouldn't be worried about what other players have, just have your experiences and get what you can, that's all that matters."
    In my mind, it's pointless to talk about how shallow others are for wanting to keep something exclusive. And just as pointless to call out someone's greed in wanting a long-gone item. I mean, it's a good thing to say in some scenarios, but that kind of thing was never the point of time-limited items.


    The Memories
    Rare has made it clear that time-limited cosmetics are made to represent a memory, and so when you put all your cosmetics together, it represents your personal experience on the Sea of Thieves. When I see my Hungering Deep Tattoo, I think of the Hungering Deep update. It's not just about keeping promises (which is a big factor in it, yes), it's also about making sure that only those who have a memory attached to those cosmetics are allowed to have it.

    To those who say "I have the cosmetic, and I don't care if others get it." Well, I applaud you, you fantastical non-greedy person. Most likely, you don't attach your sense of accomplishment/memories to your items as much as others. And that's fine. But try to understand those that do tie their items to accomplishments and memories. Just because you don't care doesn't mean that others shouldn't.

    One of the best moments when meeting someone new is seeing what you have in common at a glance. The silhouette of the Bone Crusher hat is quite iconic! And, when you see that hat, you think of the good times that you had trying to perfectly cannon up to that darned spot on Plunder Outpost. It's been almost 4 years since those skeleton thrones, and yet you can still connect with someone else through a shared player experience.
    If that hat and the jacket/dress were to be given out to anyone that wanted it, not only would it disrespect the time you put in to earn them back in the day, but it also means that you can no longer identify those that participated in skeleton thrones. What is happening is the connection between the memory and the item is severed for some and devalued for others. Now you can't connect through a shared experience. And, as much as I disagree, I can see how even recolors can devalue a set for some people.

    Players who want access to time-limited items are just greedy to get them. Whether or not they notice, they are also trying to erase the significance of playing Sea of Thieves in the past and making memories.


    Why it's good right now
    I like how time-limited stuff is working now, we get an Adventure every month and a Memento to go along with it. The wording they use in this description of Adventure rewards tells me that they are trying to get ahead of people complaining about their time-limited nature.
    I like the idea of giving us things to remember events by rather than full sets of items (though full sets of time limited items is really cool, it's not the best for new players, I'll admit). Then we can have things to remember the lore happenings by without putting it in the face of others as much.


    Time-limited is necessary
    Sea of Thieves is an online game. It needs constant player engagement to stay running. So, just like any other continuous online game, it needs constant incentives to push players into the game. This usually results in time-limited items. And this is sort of a reward for Y1 players, they played the game when it was objectively the worst (I loved it though, Hungering Deep, Cursed Sails, and Forsaken Shores were the best and I have always wished for PvP like the original forts).
    To summarize that, time limited items incentivize play into a game and then reward that player with something for keeping the game running in that time. This is why items like the Launch Crew Eye of Reach and the 1000 Days Golden Eyepatch feel so good to own... they are a reward for supporting the game when no reward was expected.


    Of course, most of the time-limited speak recently is about the Arena. My thoughts can be applied directly to the Arena, and I'll let you do the thinking on that matter. For instance, my last paragraph about "a reward for supporting the game when no reward was expected" should be applied directly to the 6 ships of Arena: An extra reward for playing Arena when no extra reward was expected.

    I hope that Rare continues to give us reasonable time-limited items in the future that do not alienate our new players. Whether we like it or not, they are key to giving us reasons to keep playing through new events. I can't wait to see what's in store for the future and I hope everyone does well!

    I don't feel like making a TL;DR this time... good luck.

    Oh, and if you're replying to this post, if it's not too much trouble, please @ me so I can see it as soon as possible. I often forget to check these things.

    @GrumpyW01f Great argument!

    But you seem to forget about the greediest pirates themselves - Rare. They make these cosmetics specifically to lure in new hopefuls to the Sea, abusing the greed of all others, all the while making more ancient coins than anyone else out there as a result...

    Gasp!

    Are they the Grand Meritime Union, making bank behind the scenes?

    Nah... That would be silly! 😅

    Also, you can reward incentives without removing them later on. That way, newer pirates can have more incentive to continue sailing later on. For example, how many pirates have you known to actively go after all of the skeleton thrones after the event ended? There's no longer any real incentive - you don't get a cosmetic, or dubloons for doing so. At best, you get 1 or 2 commendations, but the pirates who care about those are in a true minority.

  • @grumpyw01f

    its not the in game time limited items you have to earn by playing the game I hate, its the twitch exclusive locked items, they simply should not be a thing. Its a shill way of forcing players onto 3rd party platforms to forcefully give views to those that didn't earn the view.

    All twitch drops should be obtainable in game, and optionally obtainable for free by watching streamers, not unique items with unique looks, thats stupid and I find it beyond annoying.

    whats even more sad is ship sets that match these items are paid cosmetics.

    its just wrong.

  • all the time limited stuff ,the live events for cosmetics and the new shrouded isle adventures made me stopp play sea of thieves,it annoys me since months

  • @galactic-geek the point you made about the thrones and such I actually hadn’t thought about. You might be right about that honestly. Nobody does them anymore because you no longer get a cosmetic (or anything at all for that matter) for doing so.

  • @illbushido305 said in Limited-Time Cosmetics:

    @galactic-geek the point you made about the thrones and such I actually hadn’t thought about. You might be right about that honestly. Nobody does them anymore because you no longer get a cosmetic (or anything at all for that matter) for doing so.

    You can still get the titles for doing it, but that's not much for anyone nowadays (like Galactic Geek said). It would be nice if there was a new reason for doing them... say, make them a trial in a season and earn a lot of renown. It's not much, but it's a start. I'd say add the doubloons back, but then they'd have to retroactively reward them to those that got them after the event. Of course, they could do it, but it's more work than you'd initially expect.

  • @grumpyw01f said in Limited-Time Cosmetics:

    @illbushido305 said in Limited-Time Cosmetics:

    @galactic-geek the point you made about the thrones and such I actually hadn’t thought about. You might be right about that honestly. Nobody does them anymore because you no longer get a cosmetic (or anything at all for that matter) for doing so.

    You can still get the titles for doing it, but that's not much for anyone nowadays (like Galactic Geek said). It would be nice if there was a new reason for doing them... say, make them a trial in a season and earn a lot of renown. It's not much, but it's a start. I'd say add the doubloons back, but then they'd have to retroactively reward them to those that got them after the event. Of course, they could do it, but it's more work than you'd initially expect.

    They had the Master of Thrones trial.

  • @lem0n-curry
    Yeah... I forgot about that... I completed it myself once lol

  • @grumpyw01f said in Limited-Time Cosmetics:

    Time-limited is necessary
    Sea of Thieves is an online game. It needs constant player engagement to stay running. So, just like any other continuous online game, it needs constant incentives to push players into the game. This usually results in time-limited items. And this is sort of a reward for Y1 players, they played the game when it was objectively the worst (I loved it though, Hungering Deep, Cursed Sails, and Forsaken Shores were the best and I have always wished for PvP like the original forts).

    when it became clear to me that 'time limited' no longer meant 'exclusive', it pretty much killed any desire for me to continue to collect cosmetics. why hit it hard to collect something if its just going to be given away to everyone later? because of that, there was no longer any imperative to regularly log in, or check in to see what new cosmetics were coming up. why bother when i can just catch it next time, possibly for as little effort as watching a twitch stream in a background tab?
    i suspect this is not the result rare were looking for, but in my case it was certainly the result they got.

  • @amyzing-girl I respectfully disagree. Twitch drops have allowed smaller twitch channels to grow and thrive due to the attention they get. You can't know if someone's content is any good if you don't watch it, so allowing smaller channels to enable drops help bring attention to a potentially awesome streamer.

    I do agree that twitch drop items should be available in game, in some way, though.

  • @da-german420 If you don't play the events during their duration, you don't get the cosmetic, plain and simple lol.

    No reason to reward players who didn't participate the same items as those that did.

  • Pfft, I love listening to the pleas and begging of those who missed out on time limited cosmetics. It's a Sympony to my sun burned ears

  • @tehstepford said in Limited-Time Cosmetics:

    @grumpyw01f said in Limited-Time Cosmetics:

    Time-limited is necessary
    Sea of Thieves is an online game. It needs constant player engagement to stay running. So, just like any other continuous online game, it needs constant incentives to push players into the game. This usually results in time-limited items. And this is sort of a reward for Y1 players, they played the game when it was objectively the worst (I loved it though, Hungering Deep, Cursed Sails, and Forsaken Shores were the best and I have always wished for PvP like the original forts).

    when it became clear to me that 'time limited' no longer meant 'exclusive', it pretty much killed any desire for me to continue to collect cosmetics. why hit it hard to collect something if its just going to be given away to everyone later? because of that, there was no longer any imperative to regularly log in, or check in to see what new cosmetics were coming up. why bother when i can just catch it next time, possibly for as little effort as watching a twitch stream in a background tab?
    i suspect this is not the result rare were looking for, but in my case it was certainly the result they got.

    This is why I eventually stopped doing the mini events, like the Order of Souls weapons. Doing the even was easy, but when the rewards were given out right afterwards, I would already have the commendation required to buy... So I would only be saving myself a small amount of gold by doing the event.

    But, that's just me. I like that they're released afterward, it's something to do for newer players. For the PL equipment, you have to do commendations. The other companies now have some equivalence with the new items.

  • I feel like the only feasible solution to this is a solution that's not fair to the devs and/or the artists that create these amazing cosmetics in the first place

    Increase the distribution of unique, non-recoloured cosmetics purchasable at the outpost alongside any drops, emporium refreshes, etc.

    I dislike the lack of variety or "coolness" that comes with the cosmetics, it feels like there aren't a lot of interesting cosmetics that can make a pirate feel unique, and that's taking away the discrepancies of what cosmetics sets you can wear (ex: Ashen Dragon, Kraken, Ocean Crawler, etc.). It would be nice for something really cool to be something earn-able not with real world currency or just "being there" but because it actually looks sick and unique compared to all of the other sets.

  • @grumpyw01f still waiting for the deepsea blue/green wailing barnacle (moonlit barnacle) i don't care if its a season 3 item i'll die by a cannon on this hill that we'll eventually see a full set.

  • @grumpyw01f I agree new player that see some cool time-limited cosmetics like the Forsaken Ashes set or the Omen set but because its time-limited they will never be able to get it.

  • Everyone does not need to have every thing.

    I want the Founder stuff, but im not a founder (early access player) so im not supposed to have those cosmetics. And that is how it is supposed to be.

    The things/cosmetics we have tell of our history, who and what kind of pirate we are.

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