Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback

  • @galactic-geek said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @theblackbellamy said:

    I too feel that hitreg is the root cause of a lot of problems. But if hitreg is going to remain an issue, with no solutions in the foreseeable future, then maybe it's time to treat the symptoms.

    Oh ye of little faith.

    Hitreg will not remain a issue, because solutions have been made and will continue to be made, to address it. Treating symptoms may reduce stress, but does not a cure make.

    The issue of hit reg can never be completely fixed. Even games like Call of Duty, CSGO, Halo, Apex Legends, Fortnite, etc. had/have these issues. It’s not so noticeable in those however because people tend to run automatic guns, and the optimization on those are far beyond what SoT can do due to hardware/network limitations. Sea of Thieves guns are a one-shot per chamber type of gun. There is no perfect solution for hit registration, there will always be some. At this point in time, decreasing the range would need to, like you said, be the baseline, and then tweaked based on feedback from the community.

  • @galactic-geek said:

    Oh ye of little faith.

    Zero.

  • I have been meaning to make and share this for the past few days. It suffers from the same issues I have espoused from any other video posted before, but I can consistently recreate this distance accurately time and time again, provided hit-reg and other online issues don't interfere, which is what leads me to believe that this is the true range of the sword.

    https://twitter.com/GalacticGeek/status/1441903867797594112?s=19


    @jibrran said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    The issue of hit reg can never be completely fixed. Even games like Call of Duty, CSGO, Halo, Apex Legends, Fortnite, etc. had/have these issues. It’s not so noticeable in those however because people tend to run automatic guns, and the optimization on those are far beyond what SoT can do due to hardware/network limitations. Sea of Thieves guns are a one-shot per chamber type of gun. There is no perfect solution for hit registration, there will always be some. At this point in time, decreasing the range would need to, like you said, be the baseline, and then tweaked based on feedback from the community.

    @jibrran I think you're starting to mix terms. For example, SoT suffers from hit-reg, but CoD suffers from lag compensation - those are 2 entirely different things, but they both still fall under the wider umbrella of networking issues with online play. It may be true that these issues may never go away (I'm personally still holding out hope that a breakthrough in quantum physics/computing will fix that), but I have no doubt that it can and will eventually be reduced to such a degree so as to be imperceptible to the human eye.

  • @galactic-geek said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    I have been meaning to make and share this for the past few days. It suffers from the same issues I have espoused from any other video posted before, but I can consistently recreate this distance accurately time and time again, provided hit-reg and other online issues don't interfere, which is what leads me to believe that this is the true range of the sword.

    https://twitter.com/GalacticGeek/status/1441903867797594112?s=19


    @jibrran said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    The issue of hit reg can never be completely fixed. Even games like Call of Duty, CSGO, Halo, Apex Legends, Fortnite, etc. had/have these issues. It’s not so noticeable in those however because people tend to run automatic guns, and the optimization on those are far beyond what SoT can do due to hardware/network limitations. Sea of Thieves guns are a one-shot per chamber type of gun. There is no perfect solution for hit registration, there will always be some. At this point in time, decreasing the range would need to, like you said, be the baseline, and then tweaked based on feedback from the community.

    @jibrran I think you're starting to mix terms. For example, SoT suffers from hit-reg, but CoD suffers from lag compensation - those are 2 entirely different things, but they both still fall under the wider umbrella of networking issues with online play. It may be true that these issues may never go away (I'm personally still holding out hope that a breakthrough in quantum physics/computing will fix that), but I have no doubt that it can and will eventually be reduced to such a degree so as to be imperceptible to the human eye.

    COD was just one example. There’s a lot of other games that experience the same thing, but harder to notice due to automatic weapons vs single shot (and optimization). As far as that video, it’s like we’ve said before, test it on players. There’s no instance where I’m going to be taking damage from a mast. Not to mention if we follow your principle of “don’t trust your eyes” that very first slash may actually be hitting the mast, but just may not be showing the effect for it. That’s why testing on a player is better, cause they’ll be able to tell you if your hit landed.

  • @jibrran said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @galactic-geek said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    I have been meaning to make and share this for the past few days. It suffers from the same issues I have espoused from any other video posted before, but I can consistently recreate this distance accurately time and time again, provided hit-reg and other online issues don't interfere, which is what leads me to believe that this is the true range of the sword.

    https://twitter.com/GalacticGeek/status/1441903867797594112?s=19


    @jibrran said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    The issue of hit reg can never be completely fixed. Even games like Call of Duty, CSGO, Halo, Apex Legends, Fortnite, etc. had/have these issues. It’s not so noticeable in those however because people tend to run automatic guns, and the optimization on those are far beyond what SoT can do due to hardware/network limitations. Sea of Thieves guns are a one-shot per chamber type of gun. There is no perfect solution for hit registration, there will always be some. At this point in time, decreasing the range would need to, like you said, be the baseline, and then tweaked based on feedback from the community.

    @jibrran I think you're starting to mix terms. For example, SoT suffers from hit-reg, but CoD suffers from lag compensation - those are 2 entirely different things, but they both still fall under the wider umbrella of networking issues with online play. It may be true that these issues may never go away (I'm personally still holding out hope that a breakthrough in quantum physics/computing will fix that), but I have no doubt that it can and will eventually be reduced to such a degree so as to be imperceptible to the human eye.

    COD was just one example. There’s a lot of other games that experience the same thing, but harder to notice due to automatic weapons vs single shot (and optimization). As far as that video, it’s like we’ve said before, test it on players. There’s no instance where I’m going to be taking damage from a mast. Not to mention if we follow your principle of “don’t trust your eyes” that very first slash may actually be hitting the mast, but just may not be showing the effect for it. That’s why testing on a player is better, cause they’ll be able to tell you if your hit landed.

    I would love to test it with another pirate, but to do that, it would require an alliance with another crew, and convincing them that I'm still friendly after attacking them? Yeah, that's the hard part.

    Also, the reason the mast test works is specifically because it is 1-sided. With it, it's just calculating me and the server. With another pirate, it would have to calculate myself, the server, AND the other pirate - which means hit-reg or other online issues are more likely to occur, which I don't want to have happen. Remember, I'm testing the range of the sword, not how broken the sword, or online play, is...

  • @galactic-geek Reread what I said in my previous reply.
    ”Not to mention if we follow your principle of “don’t trust your eyes” that very first slash may actually be hitting the mast, but just may not be showing the effect for it. That’s why testing on a player is better, cause they’ll be able to tell you if your hit landed.”

  • Also, the reason the mast test works is specifically because it is 1-sided. With it, it's just calculating me and the server. With another pirate, it would have to calculate myself, the server, AND the other pirate - which means hit-reg or other online issues are more likely to occur, which I don't want to have happen. Remember, I'm testing the range of the sword, not how broken the sword, or online play, is...

    You can't be sure that hitting a mast is not 100% client side, since you have no way to verify that what you are hitting is even registering. It's possible that hitting a mast is a 100% client side visual feedback, just like the hit markers which are notoriously inaccurate.

    This is why everyone is telling you that you need another person to verify the range. I'd probably also get a 3rd person as an external observer, because I wouldn't trust that using the emotes to gauge distance is accurate either.

  • @jibrran said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @galactic-geek Reread what I said in my previous reply.
    ”Not to mention if we follow your principle of “don’t trust your eyes” that very first slash may actually be hitting the mast, but just may not be showing the effect for it. That’s why testing on a player is better, cause they’ll be able to tell you if your hit landed.”

    I didn't mention that because I agreed with it - or at least the portion of having a 2nd set of eyes. The problem is that that 2nd set of eyes (or 3rd, like @d3adst1ck mentioned) has to be in an offline environment, like a LAN, along with you, in order to eliminate any potential online issues like hit-registration from the equation - and only Rare themselves are capable of doing that.

  • @galactic-geek said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @jibrran said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @galactic-geek Reread what I said in my previous reply.
    ”Not to mention if we follow your principle of “don’t trust your eyes” that very first slash may actually be hitting the mast, but just may not be showing the effect for it. That’s why testing on a player is better, cause they’ll be able to tell you if your hit landed.”

    I didn't mention that because I agreed with it - or at least the portion of having a 2nd set of eyes. The problem is that that 2nd set of eyes (or 3rd, like @d3adst1ck mentioned) has to be in an offline environment, like a LAN, along with you, in order to eliminate any potential online issues like hit-registration from the equation - and only Rare themselves are capable of doing that.

    Yes, but as I've iterated before and I'll reiterate it again, just because something works offline/in a completely controlled environment, doesn't mean it's going to work the same online BECAUSE of all the different factors that come into play. You test it in live play with all the factors included, and tweak it based on that. It may be so that offline, the range may seem fine to Rare (even though offline it could also be too much), but again, you tweak it based on community feedback. This range / client-server inconsistencies / sword as a whole has been an issue since Stow/Unstow got patched, but hopefully with this thread, and providing in-depth feedback, Rare will have a better idea on how to approach the sword (especially since they just released new content and can shift their focus onto things such as combat).

  • @jibrran You base it off of community feedback?

    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • @galactic-geek said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @jibrran You base it off of community feedback?

    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    His exact words were, "you tweak it based off community feedback," only after he suggested, "you test in live play."

    Not sure why that's hilarious to you. Kind of the point of this place, isn't it? They tweak mechanics and features based off feedback here and in the insider forums all the time.

  • @theblackbellamy I laugh because most of the time the community feedback is ignorant and
    /or just plain bad. Thank God Rare has the foresight to consider quality assurance.

  • @galactic-geek said:

    Thank God Rare has the foresight to consider quality assurance.

    My turn to laugh.

  • @theblackbellamy said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @galactic-geek said:

    Thank God Rare has the foresight to consider quality assurance.

    My turn to laugh.

    Touché.

  • @jibrran

    Hit registration is a huge issue because we switched from dedicated servers to a cloud service. Dynamically cloud services are good because they can scale for use very easily but these are virtual servers being set up and as such subject to issues that come from virtual machines.

    Dedicated servers - Cost more money and if you need to scale up it costs a lot more money. If you need to scale down well you spent a ton of money on unused servers. However, when it comes to reliability its the best.

    Cloud servers - Hella cheaper and completely scalable. Creates virtual servers as needed. Service will be spotty unless you live right next to a data center and even then you could have issues because those servers are also being used to create other services.

    Biggest issue is that because its a virtual machine, companies will designate what they "believe" they need. To get faster and more reliable service you have to pay for it.

    This is the biggest difference between cloud and dedicated. Dedicated you are forced to create reliable powerful servers because upgrading or downgrading is a pain and cost a lot more money to do.

    Cloud services, the company can designate what they want or need. "hey we really don't need THIS, we can downgrade this and upgrade this"

    Aka - Lets go ahead and lower response time on the servers because who cares, but lets increase memory size so that we can push out more updates.

    Its not noticeable in games like Fortnite, Cod, and what not because the tick rating in those games I think is double or triple what Sea of Thieves has. Probably because they are using automatic weapons.

    Hence why Sea of Thieves says "You may notice more problems in highly combative moments" - Why require higher tick rating servers when you don't have automatic weapons??

    I firmly believe that whats going on with Sea of Thieves it 3 things.

    1. The game was released for the Xbox One Original. Which means servers and coding has to make sure that the game runs optimally one that out dated machine. Game only really started to get really bad when they started to add more content and when they moved the memory files of the game from client to server side.

    2. The size of the game is just too much now. Too much content that was never really optimized before release. The size of the waves even out of the storm are crazy high, volcanoes are exploding in the distance whether you are there or not. You leave a rowboat with a ton of loot somewhere, that rowboat will still be there hours later. There is just TOO much in the game. They should decrease loot amount and instead increase loot tiers or a way to consolidate loot amounts.

    When the game first came out, having something like 25 chests on a ship was an exciting moment. It was very uncommon and you felt the heat on your neck because that took some time to come by.

    Now you can finish a freaking Flameheart in like 30mins and he drops about 100 pieces of loot all tier 4. I know because I did one Flameheart and finished that commendations of handing loot to another player.

    There is just too much in the game, they need to figure out a way to consolidate it all.

    1. Biggest reason is network communication between client and server. Tick response time and probably how the network passes and receives packets. I think I heard at one point the game uses UDP packets for communicating hits. I have no idea how true this is but it would seem reasonable given that UDP response time would be faster but there is no reliability. I haven't been able to test that out but given if it was that type of issue, it would be very easy to test and confirm.

    They used to be very open about why things aren't working and what they did to fix it. They stopped being open with the community for a very long time. It takes months or years for them to answer or commit to an answer to a question.

    Someone said in here that they are ignoring it to push out PvP'ers and honestly I had that same thought for a while now.

    I don't want to say they want to push out PvP'ers completely, but everything they have done has in a sense been to put a leash on PvP. They'll let us out on walks for they want to be able to crate us thats for sure.

    I come to this conclusion because of all the commendations and changes they made to the game over the years.

    Commendations that are more focused on the PvE aspect of the game by forcing PvE onto the player if they wanted to get it done. Like having to complete a quest X amount of times instead of just saying turn in loot X amount of times. If there is a turn in loot X amount of times, then right next to it is a complete quest X amount of times.

    Probably just paranoia but it just doesn't make sense how they go about with this game. Their way of trying to entice PvP is "steal this loot from another crew".

    They haven't really don't anything to the events to make them more worth fighting over. They introduced the FoF but the failure there was allowing the Key to be visible through the map. FoF would have been so much better if the Key wasn't visible. PvE'ers would at least believe they have a chance and would have forced PvP'ers to fight for the kill on the boss instead of just sitting there waiting.

    What have they done REALLY for us PvP'ers content wise?? We have to server hop and portal hop just to find anything to do.

    Sorry about the wall of text, just really went on a tangent and couldn't stop. Sorry I didn't mean to derail the thread if it does.

  • @galactic-geek said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @jibrran You base it off of community feedback?

    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Your low comprehension skills are showing.

    @galactic-geek said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @theblackbellamy I laugh because most of the time the community feedback is ignorant and
    /or just plain bad. Thank God Rare has the foresight to consider quality assurance.

    That's the entire point of insiders, to offer feedback on any tweaks they make with stuff in this game. There's a lot of things that had been tested but didn't get pushed through to live play due to the negative feedback it received (obviously can't leak that information cause of insider NDA).

    @xultanis-dragon

    There's a clear difference between dedicated servers and cloud servers, and you scale based on the amount of resources that will be needed. You're not wrong there. I'm pretty sure games like COD use dedicated servers because they know exactly the resources that will be used, and how much memory/hardware is needed in order to support those resources.

    The problem with the current cloud servers Rare uses (Microsoft Azure) is that compared to AWS, it lags behind in terms of capabilities. On top of that, I feel like the TPS is somewhere around 30 (this is just an assumption not based on anything but a guess, Minecraft runs on 20). I'm not sure what the TPS would be, but we know it's not high.

    Like you've stated, ever since more and more content has been pushed out, it's caused more things to be in the game. One thing they can do in order for the issue you addressed about entities staying (loot staying on a rowboat for example), is deal with mob entities. You've probably noticed that skeletons will be on small islands even though there's no one there. I think if Rare can implement a check for if no one has been on an island (excluding forts possibly) for a certain period of time, then all the mobs on that island will despawn. Only when a ship comes near the island, or when a player touches the island, is when skeletons/snakes could start spawning. Another exception that could be made is for mobs such as pigs, chickens, etc. who won't get despawned if a player has a merchant quest on that island.

    It'll be a little tricky in terms of entity clearing, especially because when it comes to loot, some wandering crew may want to come in, in order to grab that loot. I think they could make it work within the water however, for any random sharks that aren't near players for example, should get despawned. Another problem with all the content they've pushed is that there are way more mobs and entities in the world now. Megaladons, Skeleton ships, Flameheart ghost ships, Sirens, Ocean crawlers, etc.

    There's a lot of factors, as I've mentioned, that come into play. In terms of the sword, fixing hit reg completely is going to be a very long process, but we do not want the sword to be in a bad state until hit reg is completely fixed, or fixed enough to a point where we can't notice it. It's why I suggested reducing the range of the sword currently, and then tweaking it based on the feedback received from the community on insiders (and that too mainly from the PvPers since they'll be able to gauge the range more accurately, considering all they do is PvP). The reason why I imply to take it with a grain of salt from PvEers, is due to them not getting involved in sword duels or high-intensity fights often. Any time I get an opportunity to sword duel against friends in adventure or arena, or even against randoms, I take that chance every time.

    Hit-reg will be an ongoing process, and there's no cure for this disease itself, but it's better to treat the symptoms for now, until a cure can be found.

  • @jibrran Feedback is appreciated, but not when it's a waste of time, like when pirates consistently ask for things that clearly go against #bemorepirate. Besides, it's the bug reports and testing that Rare really wants from Insider. So many pirates blame Rare for the bugs when most of them probably aren't even pulling their own weight on Insiders.

    As for my comprehension skills, I often post late in the day, after a long day's work - you know, when I'm tired. Because I'm human.

  • @galactic-geek said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @jibrran Feedback is appreciated, but not when it's a waste of time, like when pirates consistently ask for things that clearly go against #bemorepirate. Besides, it's the bug reports and testing that Rare really wants from Insider. So many pirates blame Rare for the bugs when most of them probably aren't even pulling their own weight on Insiders.

    As for my comprehension skills, I often post late in the day, after a long day's work - you know, when I'm tired. Because I'm human.

    But the point of the insiders is for them to react and give feedback on changes that MIGHT make it to live play. They’re not for completely new separate suggestions, that’s exactly why we have the section in which this thread is posted in for; to give feedback on current Game content and suggest new content.

  • I just swing the sharp pointy bit at my target and don't think much about it. Seems like it works pretty well to me. 🤷‍♂

  • @jibrran

    I think pretty much every game that is multiplayer is using Cloud services right now. Either AWS or Azure. There are no more dedicated servers. Everything is virtual.

    Which is again why CoD, Fortnite, and the like are getting hit registrations when there used to be none.

    From past tests within the community it has been discovered that the tick rating for SoT is around 28. Most FPS games have it around 64 or 68 I think. Some games have 120.

    So increasing tick rating would definitely fix A LOT of problems but that would cost more money per server. I would pay a monthly subscription for this game to play with no bugs.

    About sword.

    Reducing range on the sword isn't going to help the hit registration problem. The range on the sword is not that long at all. Its actually really short. The reason why it feels long is because of 2 reasons, latency and back tracking.

    Back tracking has become a real issue as of late but the latency issue has always been there. Latency differences between players and region cause the ghost range on the sword.

    Anyone who plays on 120 or 240 ping will understand this perfectly. This is the same issue with majority of the blocking problems. The latency is allowing players to hit within the character model which is technically "behind" the block and the back tracking of the hit box itself is causing it to be hit at weird angles while blocking.

    They could definitely mitigate the issues by reducing the speed of combat. Which is why I've been pushing for them to change sword combat BACK to what it was during launch and make sword mandatory to get rid of double gunning.

    Sword combat was slower but more fluid and responsive during launch. Granted the stun on the sword was massive and the range was definitely longer, but that was again by design because of how the sword worked mechanically in the game.

    It might sound BAD but trust me it wasn't. The stun gave you the ability to actually attack multiple targets without having them hit you through your combo. The range was because of the massive speed debuff you got when swinging the sword.

    If you played during launch you know what I'm talking about. If you didn't, then look for any videos of Sea of Theives back during launch or before the first double gunning changes. Sword combat was so much better.

  • @galactic-geek said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @jibrran Feedback is appreciated, but not when it's a waste of time, like when pirates consistently ask for things that clearly go against #bemorepirate. Besides, it's the bug reports and testing that Rare really wants from Insider. So many pirates blame Rare for the bugs when most of them probably aren't even pulling their own weight on Insiders.

    As for my comprehension skills, I often post late in the day, after a long day's work - you know, when I'm tired. Because I'm human.

    Possibly.

    Then the issue with that might just be method of reporting.

    I've seen threads and posts about bugs in the insiders that people have complained about for months only to see that exact bug come out in the game. Players have talked about a ton of the bugs before the release of the update to no avail, but it could be because they are posting it in the forums and not creating a report.

    If players are suppose to raise support tickets instead of posting it in the forums then Rare is going to have to stream line that system for bug reporting.

  • @xultanis-dragon said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @jibrran

    I think pretty much every game that is multiplayer is using Cloud services right now. Either AWS or Azure. There are no more dedicated servers. Everything is virtual.

    Which is again why CoD, Fortnite, and the like are getting hit registrations when there used to be none.

    From past tests within the community it has been discovered that the tick rating for SoT is around 28. Most FPS games have it around 64 or 68 I think. Some games have 120.

    So increasing tick rating would definitely fix A LOT of problems but that would cost more money per server. I would pay a monthly subscription for this game to play with no bugs.

    About sword.

    Reducing range on the sword isn't going to help the hit registration problem. The range on the sword is not that long at all. Its actually really short. The reason why it feels long is because of 2 reasons, latency and back tracking.

    Back tracking has become a real issue as of late but the latency issue has always been there. Latency differences between players and region cause the ghost range on the sword.

    Anyone who plays on 120 or 240 ping will understand this perfectly. This is the same issue with majority of the blocking problems. The latency is allowing players to hit within the character model which is technically "behind" the block and the back tracking of the hit box itself is causing it to be hit at weird angles while blocking.

    They could definitely mitigate the issues by reducing the speed of combat. Which is why I've been pushing for them to change sword combat BACK to what it was during launch and make sword mandatory to get rid of double gunning.

    Sword combat was slower but more fluid and responsive during launch. Granted the stun on the sword was massive and the range was definitely longer, but that was again by design because of how the sword worked mechanically in the game.

    It might sound BAD but trust me it wasn't. The stun gave you the ability to actually attack multiple targets without having them hit you through your combo. The range was because of the massive speed debuff you got when swinging the sword.

    If you played during launch you know what I'm talking about. If you didn't, then look for any videos of Sea of Theives back during launch or before the first double gunning changes. Sword combat was so much better.

    On the contrary, the range is not as short as you think it is. Back tracking, latency, FPS, client side vs server side inconsistencies, host, server stability, all play a role in what we perceive. However, range on a sword (when tested on a player, not a mast or object) is insanely long. The same thing goes for lunging. When your lunge animation has ended, you shouldn’t be able to hit your lunge. It’s already done, and yet people still manage to land it.

    I agree with you that old sword was much more fluid and balanced. The stun time was good because of the slow combat, Stow/Unstow wasn’t a big issue back then (since slashes slowed you down), you could tell the skill gap between two players if they were to duel, and it was just more fun to use. I’m afraid however that if they revert to that state of the sword, with the current changes still there (such as the clunky unsheathing animation), it’ll feel even worse. The stun even now is fine, people just complain because of the 10 ft sword.

    All these issues that we’ve talked about that are affecting the state of sword, are inherited from hit reg. That is pretty much the underlying cause of everything that’s happening (not to mention networking issues that come from Azure). However, having the servers hosted outside of Microsoft services is pretty much impossible for Rare, since this is a Microsoft owned game. It’s why reducing the range to match the current state of hit reg, as well as the other factors that come into play, along with backtracking, is the best route to go (for now). I’m positive once hit reg is in a very good state, then the range can be changed back to what it was. However, as it stands, hit reg is at its worse and it’ll be a long time before we see exponential improvements from it.

  • @danbeardluff said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    I just swing the sharp pointy bit at my target and don't think much about it. Seems like it works pretty well to me. 🤷‍♂

    Same.

  • @xultanis-dragon I don't recall the sword being slow back in the day. To me, it was about the same. It was your movement that was slowed, and that was only during certain circumstances and was often ignored by exploitative cancelling or simply hitting any object during your movement (including the ground).

  • @xultanis-dragon I know I certainly don't report as much as I should because of how tedious it can be. They're thorough, and while that's a good thing, it's not exactly incentive to do it.

  • @galactic-geek

    Slower as in less Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo with the jumping and the constantly running and everything.

    Combat was the sword was definitely cleaner and more responsive, lot less frustration.

  • @xultanis-dragon said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @galactic-geek

    Slower as in less Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo with the jumping and the constantly running and everything.

    Combat was the sword was definitely cleaner and more responsive, lot less frustration.

    The constant jumping/movement was still a thing back then, it's like galactic said, the only difference was that your slashes actually slowed you down regardless if you missed, and that was it.

  • @jibrran

    You are getting bunny hopping for movement mixed up with bunny hopping while doing sword combat.

    There was no bunny hopping for sword combat during before combat changes. The sword swing would kill any directional moment you had.

    Could players bunny hop for running or just for regular moving around?? Yes.

    Could players do it while sword comboing or during sword combat. No.

    After the first swing you are jumping up and down in place with almost zero directional movement.

    SIDE NOTE - Bunny hopping originally meant as a means for players to keep their momentum and actual move faster by jumping while moving. There was no bunny hopping for sword combat because there was no directional movement. Unlike now where players are moving at full speed regardless.

  • @xultanis-dragon said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @jibrran

    You are getting bunny hopping for movement mixed up with bunny hopping while doing sword combat.

    There was no bunny hopping for sword combat during before combat changes. The sword swing would kill any directional moment you had.

    Could players bunny hop for running or just for regular moving around?? Yes.

    Could players do it while sword comboing or during sword combat. No.

    After the first swing you are jumping up and down in place with almost zero directional movement.

    SIDE NOTE - Bunny hopping originally meant as a means for players to keep their momentum and actual move faster by jumping while moving. There was no bunny hopping for sword combat because there was no directional movement. Unlike now where players are moving at full speed regardless.

    The way my movement is, I never got stun locked in place even if people got a slash on me so I guess I’m not a good example, but yes I get what you mean.

  • @xultanis-dragon said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @galactic-geek

    Combat was the sword was definitely cleaner and more responsive, lot less frustration.

    This aspect I do agree with.

  • @jibrran said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @xultanis-dragon said in Sword Combat Issues - (Somewhat) In Depth Review/Feedback:

    @galactic-geek

    Slower as in less Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo with the jumping and the constantly running and everything.

    Combat was the sword was definitely cleaner and more responsive, lot less frustration.

    The constant jumping/movement was still a thing back then, it's like galactic said, the only difference was that your slashes actually slowed you down regardless if you missed, and that was it.

    ...and that's why Rare sped up movement with the sword - to facilitate balance between it and the gunners that back then could so easily run away. Now that that's harder for them to do, there have been a lot more complaints from them about the so-called "sword spam" - a term that, interestingly enough, didn't really exist prior to said change.

  • @Jibrran

    My opinion on the Sword Meta

    I agree with everything you've said. I strongly believe that sword should be reverted to the stow/unstow meta, however the original sword/2018 sword would also be preferable compared to the sword's current state. Even if the stow/unstow meta is considered an "exploit" by some, people need to understand that just because it's not intended, it doesn't mean it makes the game worse (sometimes unintended features make the game better) or that these should be removed.

    How a better Sword would improve other areas of combat

    The sword being restored to "it's former glory" would also help to allow the return of quick double gun (how double gun was in the FOTD update) with an equally as strong alternative. This would allow sword and double gun to work well in tandem (both requiring a high level of skill and being effective in combat) as they once did in the FOTD update. For example, back in NAL Season 1-2 or possibly in between both seasons (I forget, correct me if I'm wrong) both sword and double gun were commonly and effectively used. Swords were used for 1v4 boarding, due to it's high mobility and it's ability to hit multiple targets. While, double gun (mostly Sniper Pistol) was utilized for island fighting (contesting the chests). Sniper Blunder was sometimes used for boat defense, as the blunder served as a good counter to the sword.

    There's so much I feel like I didn't mention, but there's the bulk of my opinion.

  • @sot-player30 I think just the biggest problem right now is backtracking, hit reg, breaking combos, and client-server inconsistencies. I don’t mind stow/unstow being removed, but if they can improve upon those issues i mentioned, then I think the clunky-ness won’t really be as noticeable. I do agree with you though, sword back then was much more fun.

  • @jibrran Yes, I agree, current sword wouldn’t be so bad if not for those constant issues you mentioned.

115
Posts
18.1k
Views
feedback3.0kcompetition321
96 out of 115