They should be able to do whatever they want gameplay wise
Why rob improved pirates of glory? When people improve their skillset mentally and performance wise they get out of these situations more. Pirates need to feel the bitter sting of defeat so they can appreciate the sweet feeling of victory that effort brings to battles
No interference just a food chain
one that everyone can move up on from where they started
@draco-khan5531 You know that the fight is not won until the enemy spawn point, the ship, is removed, right? So if your ship was damaged, the enemy crew boards and kills you they'll wait until the ship sinks of course and spawnkilling you is necessary to complete that objective unless they want to risk a comeback of you.
If your ship didn't receive much hull damage, that process will take a while of course. In that scenario you can't blame them. They're not doing that because it grants kills and makes for a nice K/D ratio but because they want to make sure that your ship sinks.
If those players are not even trying to sink that ship and are just there to spawnkill for the fun of it however, either try again until they make a mistake or just scuttle.
Becoming an immortal pirate able to clear their deck after a death to swing the course of combat isn't the solution. You might not believe 5 seconds of immortality would be enough for that, but an experienced pirate can simply do that.
Dying within the blackscreen on return is frustrating, I get it I have been there. Yet it doesn't warrant a shift in the outcome of battle to this degree. In the end being camped is in the hands of the defeated, it might not be the turn of battle you seek... but if you are done trying to battle yourself out of the situation? Then scuttle the ship, admit defeat and move on.
Tip: Spam jumping to the sides and inputting a direction when loading back in can cause you to dodge the first shot, it isn't a fail safe approach... but it will work at times.
Tip: Wait on the ferry for your crew if they also died, spawn in together will increase the chances to one of you will be able to battle with full health. This works quite reliably.
@draco-khan5531 said in Spawn camping + trolling:
Spawn camping shouldn't be a thing after 3+ years of development.
There need to be 5s of invulnerability after spawn and the more spawn camping happens the longer the invulnerability phase.Such a mechanic would pretty much stop spawn camping in a heartbeat.
Unfair though because stopping boarding is very easy if you practice a bit. #BeMoreAware
The developers have admitted that the spawn camp loop is a problem so stop pretending it isn't or or that it's a feature. Invulnerability is not the solution to that problem. Combat in Sea of Thieves is fast and I have watched a single player wipe a galleon crew in under three seconds. Other possible solutions include reducing the time you are spawned in before you can take action, increasing base player health, adding a capture feature (which honestly would just cause a different problem), or as I suggested in another thread, a pulse upon respawn that throws players to close away and briefly stuns them, giving a brief opening for the respawning player to act after the black.
I don't see camping a ship as an issue to anyone but new players. I am of course not talking about actual spawn camping their respawn points to one blunder them.
Seasoned players know very well there is a scuttle option. They are just too stubborn or think they might take back their ship so they don't bother using it. Players should have the option to continue to take back their ship as many times as they want while it is still afloat.
For new players, they may not know the scuttle exists. Perhaps their ship should auto-scuttle after 3 respawns within a certain time limit? Like add up each respawn from time of death to time going through the door and add 20 seconds per life in there (basically adding 1 full minute to whatever the timer is on the ferry for 3 visits)
The other thing that might help is a notification about scuttle option the first time another crew kills you? Like the rest of the new player pop-ups about ship interactions.
@swgsomekid said in Spawn camping + trolling:
The developers have admitted that the spawn camp loop is a problem so stop pretending it isn't or or that it's a feature. Invulnerability is not the solution to that problem. Combat in Sea of Thieves is fast and I have watched a single player wipe a galleon crew in under three seconds.
Only way this is possible is with kegs or the galleon crew was clumping up and got multiple blunder bombs thrown at them/sword spammed in a clump. Either way, that is a tactical player error and not a game issue.
Other possible solutions include reducing the time you are spawned in before you can take action
The game can't vary based on lower grade hardware per player. How can the game reduce load time on someone with a 5,400rpm HDD? You also need to be physically in the game space before the game can try and load that part of the world visually.
OP may not know this, but his idea and several iterations, were tested in the Insiders Programme.
It granted limited invulnerability for the hapless crew getting boarded and was called Vengeance.
Rare toyed and tested with length of effect and other variables for several weeks before scrapping the entire effort.
So the devs have looked into your suggestion already, tested and rejected it.
Regarding the whole blast on respawn: Brief opening by throwing players off the ship and stunning them from moving to be able to board? #1 that is more like a 20 second opening which is huge. #2 This just turns it into a "die once and ladder guard" simulator. This method has to be by far the most one sided method I have heard in the last 2 years of people complaining about being crew wiped and camped.
Everyone needs to go back through the door together if you are having trouble getting killed quickly upon respawn. They can't get you all that quickly and it gives a chance to outnumber the 1-2 boarders that were sent over. This alone gives the best advantage when having to respawn on boarders. If you get crew wiped, it could of been lucky/guy was fighting you all 1v1 and with this strat that will get reversed. If that doesnt work then chances are you are up against a better crew and would benefit more from scuttling and getting back to trying to finish your voyage or swapping servers and getting more loot again.
*Have to do weird edits due to forum issues, sorry
Increasing health just equates to lowering weapon damage which would be a much better way of going about it but honestly the TTK is fine in this game. You would mostly be just cushioning PvE interactions which are already the easiest out of any game I have seen over the last 30 years.
What's the problem with a capture feature?
@swgsomekid said in Spawn camping + trolling:
The developers have admitted that the spawn camp loop is a problem so stop pretending it isn't or or that it's a feature.
I don't recall the developers ever admitting this.
I remember scuttling was implemented because sailors kept complaining about the negative game loop.
Then I remember Rare put that note on the ferry to inform dead noobs that they can scuttle.
Then they tested and rejected Vengeance.
@kommodoreyenser said in Spawn camping + trolling:
What's the problem with a capture feature?
I remember the developers saying they got inspiration for SoT by playing DayZ.
I thought this absolutely hilarious because in DayZ you could get knocked out and wake up in restraints.
Your captors could then force rotten food down your gullet until you vomit.
Your a victim for other players abuse.
It makes a lousy play session.
Sure, you could just logout, but DayZ features permadeath, SoT does not.
Players cry that the game is already toxic enough.
But the real problem is that pirates that abduct victims are regarded as slavers, eh.
@joe-krakatoa said in Spawn camping + trolling:
@kommodoreyenser said in Spawn camping + trolling:
What's the problem with a capture feature?
I remember the developers saying they got inspiration for SoT by playing DayZ.
I thought this absolutely hilarious because in DayZ you could get knocked out and wake up in restraints.
Your captors could then force rotten food down your gullet until you vomit.Sure, you could just logout, but DayZ features permadeath. SoT does not.
But the real problem is that pirates that abduct victims are regarded as slavers, eh.
I meant more of ship capture not players. Not necessarily that it is now also your ship with respawn capability and inviting more of your friends. More on the lines of a timer so you can transfer loot/supplies until it sinks and the enemy is done respawning on it.
@swgsomekid Why isn't invulnerability the solution?
It was deemed an advantage. One of Sea of Thieves Core Principles was an even playing field, giving powers to the home crew was breaking that. A lot of the game is based on skill and strategy, not god mode. One doesn't just magically get spawn-camped. There is a step by step process to even be in that position to start, call it a strategy if you will. Getting in that spawn-camped position is a failure on their part, giving them magic powers to get out of it just gives them an unfair advantage while punishing the other crew for pressing their advantage that they rightfully gained.
In before players throw out the whole sloop vs. Galleon example. This game goes beyond large ships bullying little ships. Plenty of this game deals with equal match-ups or even smaller crews one up-ing the big guys.
@great0grind said in Spawn camping + trolling:
Spawn camping is bannable since Rare’s too lazy to fix it. Don’t believe me? Raise a ticket and see.
Depends on the spawn camp. Just reporting for spawn camping isn't going to get you anywhere, you need proof that they are camping you simply for the purpose of camping.
I've camped players for 10 to 15 mins to grab all their supplies. I've camped others for other reasons as well. Still do it. Been reported plenty of times and I'm still playing the game, albeit maybe not for much longer because of all the freaking bugs in this game.
Why isn't invulnerability the solution? 5 seconds would be way too long, agreed.
They did the whole invuln thing for 3 seconds before. It didn't work out too well. Players were coming back to life and holding their anchor when it gets dropped telling their teammates to kill the invader, or coming back and killing the boarder because they are allowed to chase the enemy down without getting hurt. It made it impossible to hold down a ship especially for smaller sizes versus bigger ones.
You want to create a way where sloops have absolutely no chance against bigger ships, well that would be one of them.
@vareg1986 @draco-khan5531 @swgsomekid
Spawn camping isn't the horrible bannable evil tactic in every game. It depends on the game. Some games even have spawn camping completely acceptable as part of the strategy of the game.
It comes down to whether or not there is a way to "concede" and move on. Games like planetside 2 have spawn points that can be camped by armada's but its completely allowed, reason being that the players can spawn in a different point.
Same concept here. The enemy doesn't decide if you are spawn camped or not. You do. You are the only one who has the power to choose whether or not you are spawn camped.
There are 2 types of players when it comes to spawn camping. Those that deal. They just scuttle and move on. Then there are the other ones who get hung up on it because of personal emotions. Emotions, which is usually pride, ego, vanity, or shame.
Its mostly the shame because someone FORCED you to accept defeat. If they sink you then you are okay with it because you lost. If you scuttle then its like they forced you to accept defeat, like you had to bend the knee and say "I lost".
The same mentality could be seen in old time boxing matches. Competitors would die because even though they are getting beaten to all hell, they are refuses to stay down. They aren't going to win the fight, no one is forcing them to stand back up, but they keep going and they keep getting beat and they ended up dying. Which is why the rounds are 11 or 12 instead of the 15.
"I can't scuttle because then they win!!" - They already won. You aren't getting your ship back, you are choosing to spawn back every single time. No one is forcing you to respawn. You have full control over the situation, don't want to be spawned camped?? Scuttle. Stop looking at scuttling as some shameful act that will disgrace your family name. PvP'ers scuttle all the time because we look at the game tactically.
Same mentality in Arena matches. A ship gets disabled and keeps trying to survive while the attacking ship free farms. The disabled ship keeps trying to bucket and repair, but they just keep getting hammered. Why would you keep trying to survive in those situations?? You kept your boat alive thats great, you still gave the enemy like 3k to 5k worth of points because you refused to let your boat sink or you refused to scuttle. Now instead of them getting maybe 500points off of your ship and you being down 1k, they have 3k points off of your ship AND you are down 1k.
I've seen ships try to survive when they only had 300 points. They fed another ship thousands of points because they didn't want to lose the 300 they had. HOW DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE!!!??!?!?!?
"I can't scuttle because thats what they want, I'm not giving them the satisfaction!!!" - This is the biggest load of garbage. PvP'ers DO NOT WANT YOU TO SCUTTLE!!! Its freaking reverse psycology and players fall for it ALL THE TIME.
When a PvP says "Scuttle your boat noob" they are trying to make you angry so you keep coming back. They don't want you to scuttle. The longer you are forcing yourself to suffer the happier they get. The fact that you are torturing yourselves even though you could just leave makes PvP'ers all the happier.
If you really want to screw a PvP'er?? Red sea your boat or scuttle and just keep attacking them over and over. They actually start to get annoyed if you keep coming back after like the 2nd time. Show up, hit them with some cannonballs and all the good jazz, the second you realize they got you sunk (mast is down and they are on board) scuttle, and then come right back.
The fact that you are scuttling and then coming back will make them frustrated because one they aren't getting the satisfaction from sinking you, and secondly because you keep coming back instead of just leaving will start to trigger them slightly. "GOD why won't the noobs just take the hint and GO AWAY"
The hang up on spawn camping is purely emotional. Thats it. Players don't like the way scuttling makes them feel. I think players just need to learn how to grow up and accept defeat and move on. Emotional hang ups to not scuttle is a personal problem.
@xultanis-dragon no matter the reason, had a friend of mine who recently bought the game spawn camp a ship. Wasn’t toxic, but they were. They edited clips probably and got him suspended for a week for spawn camping. Nice to know a feature is bannable!
@burnbacon Yesterday I saw Boxy spawn-camping a ship and that person ended up leaving the game, but doing so in the way that keeps the ship around for 5-10 minutes.
IMO that's now even better than scuttling, because that way it wastes the spawn-campers time while they're waiting for you to come back 🤣
@great0grind said in Spawn camping + trolling:
@xultanis-dragon no matter the reason, had a friend of mine who recently bought the game spawn camp a ship. Wasn’t toxic, but they were. They edited clips probably and got him suspended for a week for spawn camping. Nice to know a feature is bannable!
Your friend got caught. You saying your friend wasn't toxic when the ship in question were lets me know that he let probably something slip on the mic or text chat.
This has been a tactic by PvE'ers or by petty players since the dawn of time. Its the last laugh.
What they do is get on mic and say all kinds of stuff while recording.
"YOU (expletive), I (expletive) your mom, (slur slur slur)"
You reply in kind. You might not go as far but you drop a few words on the no no list. You don't even think its that bad compared to what they said.
What happens is they report and send in a clip. The clip shows NOTHING of what they said, ONLY what you said.
You get banned.
Have to be careful. I've been on rando crews where they systematically TRIED to trigger the PvP'ers JUST to get them on video saying something just to get them banned because they are mad they are losing.
Guess what. If you can get banned for it....it's a problem. I can scuttle? Yay, cool. It doesn't take away the fact that I effectively cannot defend myself in the encounter because i am not being given the chance. While also losing any loot or supplies i may have had on board and having to start over. Oh and possibly spawning back in within close proximity of where i last was so it can happen again. For the victim it can become a very frustrating loop.
Something like a push away mechanic would have to have a very limited range to be fair and if you were effected or thrown off the ship by it, that's on you. What I'm reading here however is a bunch of people admitting they are spawn campers and trying to make excuses about why that's okay. Frankly it's not. The developers outright said as much in their most recent podcast. Spawn camping kills the fun of most pvp encounters for the person/people being camped. All they really want is a chance, however slim, to fight back. It might make the fights harder than blunder sword sword but you'll live. Tactics change. Just because it's been in the game for three years doesn't mean the mechanic is right. I mean hit reg is proof of that.
@trial0n They didn't attack the ship, they literally had 4 guys 2 on deck 2 guys in water just shooting players as they spawned. They knock the player into the water and guys in water killed the guy and did this non stop for 10 minutes.
So no 5s invulnerability is not just justified should be the default. Why? Because the enemy players have a choice to attack the ship which isn't invulnerable only the player.
It is the perfect solution to stop spawn camping and force people to attack the ship.
@xultanis-dragon sagte in Spawn camping + trolling:
@great0grind said in Spawn camping + trolling:
@xultanis-dragon no matter the reason, had a friend of mine who recently bought the game spawn camp a ship. Wasn’t toxic, but they were. They edited clips probably and got him suspended for a week for spawn camping. Nice to know a feature is bannable!
Your friend got caught. You saying your friend wasn't toxic when the ship in question were lets me know that he let probably something slip on the mic or text chat.
This has been a tactic by PvE'ers or by petty players since the dawn of time. Its the last laugh.
What they do is get on mic and say all kinds of stuff while recording.
"YOU (expletive), I (expletive) your mom, (slur slur slur)"
You reply in kind. You might not go as far but you drop a few words on the no no list. You don't even think its that bad compared to what they said.
What happens is they report and send in a clip. The clip shows NOTHING of what they said, ONLY what you said.
You get banned.
Have to be careful. I've been on rando crews where they systematically TRIED to trigger the PvP'ers JUST to get them on video saying something just to get them banned because they are mad they are losing.
This is exactly why I clearly prefer e.g. EA's approach to only regard information of their anti-cheat softwares and not any player reports. Anything else is up to whether a private server admin wants you to stay on his server or not.
Even though the anti-cheat of their newest title is admittedly horrible, I prefer having more cheaters and toxic players overall than needing to fear the banhammer just for having a bad day or being provoked/deceived.
It's beyond me how Rare still follows this policy, it's not like people aren't creative and keen enough to eventually exploit it.
In order for everyone to be safe one needs either to deactivate his mic or constantly record his sessions like people do when driving in Russia.
@great0grind So was his ban reason really spawncamping or swearing?
@draco-khan5531 As me and others said, no one forces you to endure this if you can scuttle the ship instead. Also someone else above has pointed out that the devs had tested this feature with varying invulnerability timers in the insider build of this game and the results proved to be poor, apparently.
Imagine the 5 secs invulnerability if people really just want to wait out until your ship sinks. Those few seconds will be a long and frustrating time window for the attackers and make sloop crews kinda op because they can flail at everyone in that time as their ship is very small and it doesn't take much time to cover ground there.
@swgsomekid said in Spawn camping + trolling:
I can scuttle? Yay, cool. It doesn't take away the fact that I effectively cannot defend myself in the encounter because i am not being given the chance.
At this point you have failed to notice a ship approaching, failed to prevent an unwanted boarding, and failed to kill intruders.
How many more chances do you need to fail?
Your 0-3 and counting.
Scuttling was implemented exactly for pirates in your position.
This is why you keep a weather eye on the horizon.
Don't be easy meat.
@swgsomekid said in Spawn camping + trolling:
I suggested in another thread, a pulse upon respawn that throws players to close away and briefly stuns them, giving a brief opening for the respawning player to act after the black.
This makes no sense because your asking for the devs to give you the person who's being spawn camped a hand at defending yourself.
It's as if I start complaining on how the devs should give me a pulse that throws you away/stun you when I board your ship so that I have a chance to drop the anchor.
If you failed at being defensive that's your fault, scuttle.
@swgsomekid said in Spawn camping + trolling:
It doesn't take away the fact that I effectively cannot defend myself in the encounter because i am not being given the chance.
You lost your chance when they successfully boarded your ship.
@great0grind Lol if spawn camping is bannable I should have been banned long time ago, with a slew of my friend. In fact we spawn camped total of 8 ships two nights ago.
Until Rare posts something against it, people will be getting spawn camped.
Now my mic is always on push to talk, and we communicate to each other over the party, so PVE'rs can't hear us but we can hear their salty comments. The more salty you are the more likely you will be spawn camped. Its that simple.
All spawn camps are also recorded just in case.
If you don't want to get spawn camped then scuttle, if you not scuttling we assume you like it.
@jadescissors32 You can get banned for it and people have. The issue is that nobody knows it's bannable and most people do not bother recording it. In fact, the entire reason someone worked with CheaterSoT to DDoS the website and servers is because he was mad he got banned for spawncamping.
