"I don't really kill players."

  • Dumpington9903
    Seafarer

    So, let me set the scene here:

    I log into a brig open crew to see the ship full of holes but otherwise in good repair, and my two shipmates standing on the bow, taking sniper shots at some rando in the water at max range. Eventually, we leap in and kill him, and discover about 45k worth of loot floating around a detached rowboat. Apparently, a solo sloop had decided to attack the brig while it was offloading, and they sank him. He also - very obviously - wasn't happy.

    We sold the new trove of loot, both those guys logged, I'm left alone, and the sloop returns. I let him sink the now-empty brig since it's no secret that he needs to let off some steam, and after a few minutes I take the mermaid to the new brig. Two new crewmates join.

    I quickly inform them that the sloop is very, very hostile and probably still going to be gunning for us, and they seem to understand (well, one of them does - the other is one of those people who doesn't have a mic and doesn't type). Sure enough, about 10 minutes later, the sloop shows up and we sink it pretty handily. In the aftermath, one of my crewmates says:

    "You know, I like digging up treasure, I like killing skeletons, and I like diving wrecks, but this is a little much. Normally, I don't really kill players."

    There's a distinct note of condemnation in his voice, but I don't really pay it much mind initially. The third player disconnects, and a little while thereafter I spot the salty sloop again on the horizon. He's coming in fast, we align ourselves to give battle, turn to present broadside and... the pacifist logs.

    Now, obviously, I cannot know what happened. Maybe a werewolf just kicked in his front door; maybe his fridge just exploded; maybe his internet connection dropped out. But... I have a distinct feeling that this was timed to assure that he didn't have to fight off our antagonist (and perhaps also, that I would be taught some kind of lesson in the process). Do I know for sure? Nope. But that was my gut reaction.

    And that leads me to my question: if you aren't playing SoT for the player interactions - the majority of which are hostile in nature - why are you playing?

    This isn't the only pirate game out there. Not only are there buccaneer-themed platforms that offer far more PvE immersion, but they're solo-oriented experiences where there's absolutely nothing of consequence (if, I guess, ego is of consequence to you; if the risk of being beaten by another player makes you uncomfortable) on the line.

    But SoT really isn't that game. Once you've figured it out... once you've seen all the islands, looted thousands of treasure chests, grabbed all the various sails and hull paint schemes and costumes you could ever want... the experience pretty much boils down to encounters with players. That's it - that's the only element of the game that remains dynamic and unpredictable. Everything else is pretty shallow and repetitive.

    Moreover, hostile engagements with players are unavoidable. If you log in, you're (eventually) going to get attacked. I guess you can scuttle, or sail into the shroud, or dump all your cargo overboard during the chase. But being aggressed-upon is just going to happen... predictably. So there's very little room in the game for someone who doesn't get something out of that experience. Because all your PvE efforts are not only pretty monotonous, but they're pretty much setting you up to get attacked (an experience that you don't really like).

    ... and thus, I am left scratching my head as to what the draw is here. It's one thing to log in and not instantly throw up the Reaper flag (the majority of players), and another to hate PvP through-and-through. So if your reaction to being attacked is to just tuck and run (and perhaps passive-aggressively judge your crewmates who aren't quite so peace-loving as you skedaddle off-stage), what does SoT do for you?

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  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @bjornthecold i doubt a PvE only player will answer, but i want to tell you that to me the playerinteractions are important, but not the core of my gameplay - this said i'm talking about player interactions outside of my crew of couse.

    when i join SoT i immmerse to some degree and start a "pirate living", sometimes solo, mostly with mates i made along my journeys.
    We do PvE and the events and what is acutally happening in SoT, i normylly dont fish, yesterday we had the mission to fish at mermaids hideway a sloop parked there - hidden exactly at the spot we were asked to fish.
    when the slooper came back he found his Sloop parked where it was untouched with a Galleone just beside, cannons loaded, but 4 pirates fishing.
    He did not shoot, he was concerned and baffled i'd say :D
    15 minutes later another sloop, a duo parked at Snake Island, we passed by doing nothing, but one of us want to get some supplys so took she took the cannon and shot herself over telling them we dont do anything.
    She got shot and one mumbled something that sounded not that friendly.
    Sunk in no time while crying and slightly insulting us.
    I mean if they would have our piratess left alone grab some planks, fruit and cannonballs from the island, they would have continouds their journey in peace.

    what i wanted to say is PvP around is all fine, i mostly welcome PvP and when there is the need to PvP or the want to PvP, what also happens occasionally then i/ we PvP.

    A sad fact is that playerinteractions are reduced to beeing hostile.
    The situation with the sloop at Mermaids was chill and funny, we played some music etc.
    A sloop, also not a duo is 99% not a threat to a galleone with some experience, so why steamroll?
    If they are hostile, sure no mercy.

    SoT wanted and once was about a social experience and the unpredicatibilty about the other players.
    Streamers who advertise this game are all too PvP focussed or avoid it entirely.
    There is nothing in between.
    Where are the popular streamers gifting stuff or doing stuff socializing with others, beeing nice and just beeing funny.
    Yeah lame maybe, all fine, i get it, but people could Roleplay and parlay and fight anyway, but in a more socializing way and more relaxed, about fun and immersion.

    people are to black and white and too much into PvP or PvE only and not balanced regarding this.
    Playerinteractions are barely unpredicatable, its 99% PvP and this is a sad fact, also because there is things like Festival of Giving or commendations that want you to trade or gift booty with/ to others.

    But these all get cheesed with serverhopping and doing premade alliances.
    too many pirates are too much into extremes, when a more relaxed and balanced aproach would enrich the SoT experience.

    But streamers and PvPers having fun to steamroll, spawnkill and show others off drives everyone else away and make every encounter uneccessarily agressive.

    The SoT lost a lot of its organic feel regarding PvP and player interactions in general and that is because some streamers made playstyles popular that are basicly toxic and tons of immature, exagerating gamers that follow them copy it.

    PvP is all fine, they way it is done with so much eagerness, exploits and trashtalk let me only laugh and maybe logg off and grant them their weird and cringe sort of fun beeing online jerks.
    Too old for this kind of "gameplay".

    yea bit out of context i know, i want to add, i dont see why someone needs to be a pacifist in SoT, but i also dont see one need to be a murder hobo.
    extremes like i said and we all would profit from a more balanced and relaxed aproach, expecially for PvP and player interactions in general.

  • Jeroenix
    Marauder

    @bjornthecold It's odd really.. when I got Sea of Thieves, I first had read some reviews about it, and I knew full well that this game's gameboard is free for all, without any safe zones of any kind. I started playing, and I learned that it's the 'full package': there's adventure, digging up treasure, bounties, all sorts of PvE activity; all of those under the threat of constant danger (other players, kraken, sharks, megs, skelly ships) whatever you do, wherever you go. It would be a boring world without it.

    It's odd that some players persist in choosing to avoid this one single thing: dealing with other ships.

    But this is reminder: with Open Crew, all bets are off in getting a decent crew. I usually play one open game every few days, leaving all my expectations at the door. About 10% of all games started result in a decent crew. The rest is just spent observing people harpooning the sky, firing the cannon randomly and dropping the anchor in open sea.

  • Kenneth Mcgrew
    Marauder
    Insider

    people are all individuals aren't they, me as a player i dont tend to fight anyone, unless they start it.

    ill gift out chests and join alliances where i can, i just like sailing about and collecting stuff with the risk of getting caught!

    if someone comes over and starts shooting the ship they will get sunk, but next time i see them its like a new day for me, up to them if they want to open fire again.

    equally if im bested and lose all the loot so be it, ill wave at them and they can keep it.

    i do hate spawn campers and people who kill for no reason though. (like those destroy your ship when you don't attack them and clearly have nothing on board) along with other toxic gameplay syles.

    also dont forget some people turn off peoples Mics so chances are this pirate never heard why you were killing this sloop over and over again and thought... no thanks, equally maybe they just wanted to go dig some stuff up rather than waste their time with a sloop hell bent on revenge... theres better things to do in SoT that be hell bent on revenge.

    as for avoiding other ships, well they're just a distraction arnt they, sometimes i've got an hour and need to get stuff done and sold before the hours up. messing with PVP will turn that 1hr into 2hr pretty quickly.

    same i expect with 100s of other pirates out their who want to make progress with the factions.

    point is were all human, we're all different.

  • IllBushido305
    Lord
    Insider

    Things like this always blow my mind. Makes no sense to me that someone is going to play this game and just be strictly against combat. I joined a open crew one time and these guy were sailing towards a brig so I boarded it and kill the whole crew. For whatever reason, this made my open crew upset and they brigged me. They were rambling about me being a noob pirate legend for attacking them(mind you, the other ship had loot). They said we were apparently supposed to be friendly to everyone and only attack if they started it. Logically when they said this my brain was melting. I had never heard something more ridiculous. Why should I be forced to be everyone’s friend by them because they think it’s sea of friends? Some people call pvp toxic or say that you don’t pvp. This makes zeros sense, for starters it’s a pirate game, second why would there be full on combat mechanics if it was toxic to do it? Now, the open crew guys were very new and were arguing that they were better than me somehow. I really think Rare should some how make it clear to newer players that this is a pirate game. You’re supposed to attack other ships and sink them. Your supposed to steal hence the games literal name.

  • Alymon
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    I'll chime in, though not strictly a PvE player. To start, I am not against combat. I am not anti-PvP. Everyone plays their own ways and that's fine.

    I typically avoid combat with other players about 99% of the time. I very much will engage other players if they attack me first, but most times, I'm not there to fight and generally evade combat or flee when attacked.

    I enjoy co-op games. I enjoy working with friends to adventure. I enjoy the scenary in SoT. I enjoy the tenseness that comes when stumbling across other crews and trying to determine if they are going to be chill or open fire.

    I enjoy cheeky, fun shenanigans with hiding on ships and playing music or whatever.

    I enjoy helping other crews. That's big for me. I've played many MMOs over the years and I always enjoy assisting others with their quests and goals.

    I completely understand someone leaving because they don't want to engage in PvP. Other players can be toxic (they aren't always). I don't need someone yelling into a mic that I suck just because they killed me when they took me by surprise.

    I've had positive encounters with hostile players. Heck the other day a sloop came up on me while I was working on a tall tale. We chatted a bit back and forth as he pursued me, but it was clear he wasn't going to let me be. I had no loot, no emissary. I raised sails, let him come aboard, he challenged me to a sword duel. We dueled, I lost. He went about his way peacefully.

    I love the community, I love the randomness of encounters with others. I just don't get all excited by the idea of going after other players with hostile intent (most times).

    So, in short... I don't expect everyone to be friendly. I expect everyone to have their own ideas and motivations. I respect that. Attack me, sink me, steal my loot, it's all part of the game. I generally play to help others, but that's just my thing. As long as people are respectful in how they interact, I have no quarrel with PVPers or PVEers.

  • Vaca Hombre
    Champion
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @bjornthecold

    Sea of Thieves is a PvPvE game that gives you the tools and then let's you play how you want. Some people use those tools to prioritize loot and plunder, some for exploration and discovery. Both approaches are perfectly valid.

    I've been playing SoT since alpha and have killed one pirate only because he asked me to. I just don't enjoy combat. It makes me jittery and uncomfortable. I run when I can and die if I can't. No hard feelings to the attacking crew, they're playing the game their way.

    There is a lot to enjoy about Sea of Thieves, and if some choose to abstain from PvP, then that is their preference.

    After all, the guy helped you sink the sloop once; clearly something he'd rather not do. And it sounds like he would've been fine with that. But you already told him that this sloop was super hostile and already gunning for you. So when it showed up again, he probably assumed that this was going to drag out for most of the session and bailed.

    Personally, I would have stayed to help with the second fight before apologizing and bidding you farewell, but that's me. But I get his desire to leave when it looked like the sloop's aggression was going to be an ongoing issue.

    Heck, look through many of the threads on this site and you'll see that he did just what most PvP players tell PvE players to do. "If someone won't leave you alone, log out and switch servers".

    Like I said, I would've recommended he at least help out with the newest battle before leaving, but other than that, I don't see anything wrong with his actions. Random crews give you random crewmates who might have different preferences to you.

  • IllBushido305
    Lord
    Insider

    @kenneth-mcgrew said in "I don't really kill players.":

    people are all individuals aren't they, me as a player i dont tend to fight anyone, unless they start it.

    ill gift out chests and join alliances where i can, i just like sailing about and collecting stuff with the risk of getting caught!

    if someone comes over and starts shooting the ship they will get sunk, but next time i see them its like a new day for me, up to them if they want to open fire again.

    equally if im bested and lose all the loot so be it, ill wave at them and they can keep it.

    i do hate spawn campers and people who kill for no reason though. (like those destroy your ship when you don't attack them and clearly have nothing on board) along with other toxic gameplay syles.

    also dont forget some people turn off peoples Mics so chances are this pirate never heard why you were killing this sloop over and over again and thought... no thanks, equally maybe they just wanted to go dig some stuff up rather than waste their time with a sloop hell bent on revenge... theres better things to do in SoT that be hell bent on revenge.

    as for avoiding other ships, well they're just a distraction arnt they, sometimes i've got an hour and need to get stuff done and sold before the hours up. messing with PVP will turn that 1hr into 2hr pretty quickly.

    same i expect with 100s of other pirates out their who want to make progress with the factions.

    point is were all human, we're all different.

    A lot of the time if you don’t have loot and you’re getting spawn camped, there are three main factors that become the reason for this occurrence.

    1. Supplies: It happens very often and even I do it. We bring a storage crate if we have one, and take every singe piece of recourses on your ship down to the last banana. It’s a quick way to stock up on supplies.

    2. Practice: some people find this as a way to practice combat.

    3. Forcing Server Merge: Sometimes

  • Alymon
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    Like I said, I would've recommended he at least help out with the newest battle before leaving, but other than that, I don't see anything wrong with his actions. Random crews give you random crewmates who might have different preferences to you.

    This. I agree he should've stayed and fought and left after it was safe, or he should've left before the second encounter.

  • PithyRumble
    Castaway
    Insider

    PvE here.

    I don't like pvp.
    I'm not going to do something I don't like.
    It's very simple.

    I have 70 something sinks somehow though? 🤷🏽‍♀️🧜🏽‍♀️

  • JeroenXP1
    Ship Mate

    I think the whole problem is open crew itself, because if you have a certain mindset how you want to play then open crew is one of the worse ways to play the game. Since open crew = expect everything and not with a mind set of everyone will be ok doing only PvP or only PvE etc.

    Really if you don't have friends playing this game, go find discord communities. Or ask people on the forums with a same mindset of playing SoT a certain way. Instead of going open crew and be surprised that someone will kill players or some one only want to PvE or just shoot cannons randomly.

    Myself find it that its not just this game that people want to change its core mechanics into their liking. Since the last few years ( correct me if i am wrong ) the younger generation is all about rainbows and happiness and we aint allowed to make certain jokes because someone might be offended. And you can see this kind of behavior in multiplayer open world games (as in change everything to THEIR liking and attacking me = that player is evil and toxic....).

    Sea of thieves lets you know by just its name that this open world game is not about making friends with every player you see and don't take their loot. Yet the core mechanic is PvPvE interaction which every one with a brain can see is NOT about being friendly with everyone. People don't watch videos or ask for information. They just buy the game and its not what they expected and then they demand PvE servers when the game clearly states that the PvP interaction is also one of its core mechanics.

    As a player who is mostly not into pure PvP based games because like for Overwatch as an example i have a mindset of play to win even in quick play games and not be toxic to other players. But I can't expect people behave the same way as i want, so I stop playing instead of keeping demanding changing its core mechanic. Ofcourse actually toxic behavior like insulting other players should never go unpunished. But people thinking by just destroying their ships is toxic behavior clearly don't know what actually toxic means.

    TLDR version:

    People should not use open crew if they have only a single mindset of playing SoT. And people should stop try to change a core game mechanic and actually look for another game. It's not like in this year your are limited to a handful of games, you know search something else if you hate the possibility for PvP interaction in a game where it will happen.

  • Skritsarn
    Lord
    Insider

    It's quite simple. Some people enjoy the PvE so much that they are willing to play only for that. Which is the reason some ask for PvE servers and it only means Rare made a good game.

    Myself, i would be very bored with the game if there wasn't PvP.

  • Vaca Hombre
    Champion
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @jeroenxp1 said in "I don't really kill players.":

    Yet the core mechanic is PvPvE interaction which every one with a brain can see is NOT about being friendly with everyone.

    And this is what I believe is wrong with not only SoT, but many multiplayer games in general. This idea that, "we're supposed to and/or are allowed to attack each other which means we can't be friendly".

    I'm friendly with everyone. Whether they wave at me peacefully or lay waste to my ship and snatch me booty. Because this is a game and everything should be in good fun. Even killing each other.

    I've had some great times with my murderers. One duo sloop team ambushed me on Sailor's Bounty. I met their charge up the beach with a bucket of water. We spent the next couple minutes having a splash fight before they needed to be on their way and blundered me to death.

    Another crew took control of my sloop while I was hiding in the crow's nest and proceeded to ram it into the nearest island. I dropped down and started frantically fixing holes while loudly insisting that every leak was "just a nick" and would "buff right out". They all had a chuckle and one even sent me a friend request.

    The idea that just because a game is competitive means that friendship is antithetical to it's very nature is ridiculous in my opinion. Games should always be about making friends. You just have to have the right attitude.

  • JeroenXP1
    Ship Mate

    I think you misunderstood me, what i mean with friendly is that everyone will not fight you and help each other out. I don't meant it with being a toxic person and throw insults at each others.

    What most people want who do 0 research on this game and then demand that no one should attack them ( aka being friendly ) because they are on a tall tale quest or something. So people should not complain when they get attacked, but ofcourse toxic behavior as in insults should never be tolerated in any game.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder
  • Vaca Hombre
    Champion
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @jeroenxp1

    Naw, I got what you mean. Sorry, I shoulda clarified. My concern is about the overall societal labeling of "being friendly" in a game to one narrow set of behaviors. Whereas anyone who's sat around and played deathmatches with their friends can tell you that isn't true at all.

    I quoted your post just cause it happened to use some of the terms I have issue with.

  • Clumsy George
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @herlucideyes

    The way you write and describe your adventure makes out you were on an open crew with randoms. When you play with randoms than you have the chance to meet every kind of personality.

    You indeed , have met a rare person , a person that knows that every action may lead to a counter reaction...i will try to explain: i am part of a crew that sails peacefully untill attacked upon. We will always defend ourselves but rather in shipbattles than in Pvp battles...

    In many shipbattles we win , and mostly the attacker leaves it by this one charge that they lost. But if we would go sailing to purely destroy Pirates , they would retaliate to us , and chase us for the rest of the evening...

    i'm okay with that since we were the firestarters but ... the rest of the evening is filled with fighting , gathering resources and ...fight again... We rather sail around , make Alliances possible to whoever wants to join and have a chat and a goof with them , if, they use a microphone...

    i am a gamer of this game but i find it my responsibility to offer the " enemy" a fair game , Friendly or hostile it does not matter ... If a person would become angry , frustrated , and even leave the game because of what i've said or done , spawncampwise which i never do , i would feel bad . i would feel bad because i want to keep as much Pirates as possible playing this game ... An empty Sea is tranquil , but there is not much unpredictable interactions then... Humans make or break this game...

    Now to come back to your game , i know there was hardly time to explain him because you were in a fight , but next time when you play random , tell them how you want to play and ask how they want to play and then try to find a compromise or ask them politely to leave as you can't find a mutual agreement...

    Your " Pacifist" Pirate doesn't need to be " belittled " as this person left after the fight ,which gave you the oppertunity to invite a Friend or see how the next random would behave...He did nothing wrong and if this was his/her playstyle then you simply have to accept that. You can't say that he stole or wasted your evening as he /she left quickly.

    And some " Pacifists " have a lot more courage running in their veins that one would expect at first sight . Have you ever read " Conscientious Objector"? ...

    Nah, this is a game where everybody can play the way he / she wants to play ... calling this a PvP game where the Pve elements get bored quickly is your opinion while mine differs to that... Back in the day , when people used microphones , we could mould crews where every person was fine with. We opened our arms and made a mutual decision how we would spend the evening , and mostly we ended up with wet hankerchiefs from laughing , nomatter how many times we sank...

    Humans are Great , it just needs a perfect balance of give and take to get the best out of a random situation ...

    Don't see him or her as a lesser Pirate because in my eyes , this is one of the very few Gems one can find in this game...

    There are people in this Sea that just want to sail , discover and enjoy the world . They roam around like open flowers where raindrops like Great Graphics , Music , skies are feeding their pedals and make them the persons they simply are...

    You met a true gem and you sadly didn't realize it ... Maybe next time you will have or take time to get to know the background of his /her mentality and that will drop a different light unto your opinion.

  • KlutchxKing518
    Lord
    Insider

    @herlucideyes Oh my pirate lord... That first section of the post had me laughing a lot harder than I am willing to admit... It's funny how well I can imagine your situation in my head.

    On the serious note, aye, this game is at it's best with player interaction and a good fixin' of PvP here and there, or everywhere if that's your style.

  • IllBushido305
    Lord
    Insider

    said in "I don't really kill players.":

    @bjornthecold

    I've been playing SoT since alpha and have killed one pirate only because he asked me to. I just don't enjoy combat. It makes me jittery and uncomfortable. I run when I can and die if I can't. No hard feelings to the attacking crew, they're playing the game their way.

    Dude I find it insanely difficult to believe that you’ve only killed ONE player since the alpha. Do you not shoot people off your ladder at least if you get boarded? I hope you don’t just let them on because you don’t like combat. Also, the jittery uncomfortable feeling you get, I know the feeling because I get it sometimes. It happens when I’ve got treasure on board and trying to defend it from on coming attacks or just when I fight someone if I haven’t played in a bit. This usually goes away after getting into a few battles. FYI I’m not trashing you or anyone about having killed one person. I’m just genuinely very surprised that this is the case.

    EDIT: can’t tag the author of the comment due to words in his name being restricted for some reason. It’s not even anything bad.

  • ClosingHare208
    Marauder
    Insider

    @illbushido305 said in "I don't really kill players.":

    said in "I don't really kill players.":

    @bjornthecold

    I've been playing SoT since alpha and have killed one pirate only because he asked me to. I just don't enjoy combat. It makes me jittery and uncomfortable. I run when I can and die if I can't. No hard feelings to the attacking crew, they're playing the game their way.

    Dude I find it insanely difficult to believe that you’ve only killed ONE player since the alpha. Do you not shoot people off your ladder at least if you get boarded? I hope you don’t just let them on because you don’t like combat. Also, the jittery uncomfortable feeling you get, I know the feeling because I get it sometimes. It happens when I’ve got treasure on board and trying to defend it from on coming attacks or just when I fight someone if I haven’t played in a bit. This usually goes away after getting into a few battles. FYI I’m not trashing you or anyone about having killed one person. I’m just genuinely very surprised that this is the case.

    EDIT: can’t tag the author of the comment due to words in his name being restricted for some reason. It’s not even anything bad.

    who v-hombre?

  • IllBushido305
    Lord
    Insider

    @closinghare208 yes. The “v” word literally is the word cow in Spanish. His name translates to “Cow Man”. I really don’t see the issue. A lot of Spanish words in game and forum are restricted regardless of meaning nothing bad for some reason.

  • ClosingHare208
    Marauder
    Insider

    @illbushido305 said in "I don't really kill players.":

    @closinghare208 yes. The “v” word literally is the word cow in Spanish. His name translates to “Cow Man”. I really don’t see the issue. A lot of Spanish words in game and forum are restricted regardless of meaning nothing bad for some reason.

    i guess it sounds or look like to the algorithm like the word for a part of female anatomy

  • IllBushido305
    Lord
    Insider

    @closinghare208 honestly they should actually look at what is restricted because if someone wanted to bring up cows for whatever reason they can’t because it looks like something offensive to the algorithm.

  • ClosingHare208
    Marauder
    Insider

    @illbushido305 said in "I don't really kill players.":

    @closinghare208 honestly they should actually look at what is restricted because if someone wanted to bring up cows for whatever reason they can’t because it looks like something offensive to the algorithm.

    true

  • karmajay13
    Castaway

    @herlucideyes said in "I don't really kill players.":
    Once you've figured it out... once you've seen all the islands, looted thousands of treasure chests, grabbed all the various sails and hull paint schemes and costumes you could ever want... the experience pretty much boils down to encounters with players. That's it - that's the only element of the game that remains dynamic and unpredictable. Everything else is pretty shallow and repetitive.

    New player here - actually I played for a week at launch then dropped off. Just started playing again last night with some friends. Today I decided to play solo to just get better at the sailing mechanics and discover some of the content. I like the mechanics of the game and the visuals. There is a lot of content I missed I wanted to catch up on. I don't mind the PvP that can occur on the high seas. At least you have a chance to run away. BUT - today I had a legendary player spawn camp my ship at an outpost and kill me 7 times before blowing up my ship. The treasure I had? 2 chickens I wanted to turn in for a quest.

    The reason I quoted the above is how can the game build up its player base if stuff like that can happen? Like someone else posted - if you only had the 100% pvp killers/griefers or people that are bored of the PvE content the server numbers would be much lower and that would make the game worse.

    Also, there have been PvEvP games in the past where there is some system when players become dishonorable killers. I wish this game had something like that along with non PvP zones around sanctuaries/outposts. I mean, wouldn't someone become unpopular if they kept killing all the merchant's customers as soon as they stepped on the outpost?

    Again, I'm NOT complaining about ship type battles. At least there solo people have a chance. I'm talking about solo people or new people having to have not fun times a lot just so bored people can constantly gank or grief them.

  • Ninja Naranja
    Legend
    Insider

    I don’t PvP often. I’m not that knowledgeable about it but I’ll defend my ship if It gets attacked. I play this game because I absolutely love nature, and this game gives me a feeling of that. I love exploring the islands, digging up treasures and slaying creatures from the deep. I love the lore, I love finding clues and discovering secrets. I love working on commendations, and getting more ship cosmetics.

    But above all, I absolutely love being at the helm and navigating these great seas with my friends.

    If I want to fight someone, I’ll play one of my FPSs. This Sea of Thieves is like a home away from home. And the only game that can suck me in completely.

  • JuniperWinds
    Seafarer
    Insider

    This isn't the only pirate game out there. Not only are there buccaneer-themed platforms that offer far more PvE immersion, but they're solo-oriented experiences where there's absolutely nothing of consequence (if, I guess, ego is of consequence to you; if the risk of being beaten by another player makes you uncomfortable) on the line.

    I don't think this is true at all. There really aren't many pirate games out there, and none really at SoT's level of quality.

    I'm a new player, I like co-op, but have never been big on PVP. I have no problem doing it from time to time, but I think there's a big difference between spontaneous ship-to-ship fights and someone spawn camping or harassing you because they are bored. I actually stayed away from SoT for a year or so because, from forums/reddit, it seemed from the outside to feature a lot more of the latter.

    Having played for a week or two, I love just about everything about this game except the PVP. I like ship to ship battles sometimes (even getting sunk or losing treasure), but I don't always want to PVP. I've been harassed with an empty hold just trying to fish. That's fine, that's the game, but it's only ever fun for the other person.

  • L0KKEE
    Seafarer

    PvE player also here.

    To me this is a design flaw.
    I certainly do not expect every one to enjoy PvE only. And symmetrically, I cannot fathom that it is too much to ask from PvP players to understand that competitive/ adversarial gaming cannot be to anyone taste.
    Sea of Thieves is by no means branded, nor advertise as a PvP only title.

    Rare took the decision to force the merging of 3 very distinct types of gaming communities
    (Content-driven/Competitive/Creative)
    And hoping for unifying them onto the flag of a free for all brawler.

    Why not ? Say you
    Indeed, but in this case, why bothering with lore and narrative quests and activities unrelated whatsoever with PvP if not to deceive both Content-driven and Creative players into the notion that Sea of Thieves can also be an experience they can enjoy?

    Hence, most of the interactions you will get from forcing PvP out of players that do not want any of it, will be the dark side of the Force. I very much doubt you sustain a healthy community out of it.

  • dlCHIEF58
    Legend
    Insider

    @l0kkee said in "I don't really kill players.":

    PvE player also here.

    To me this is a design flaw.
    I certainly do not expect every one to enjoy PvE only. And symmetrically, I cannot fathom that it is too much to ask from PvP players to understand that competitive/ adversarial gaming cannot be to anyone taste.
    Sea of Thieves is by no means branded, nor advertise as a PvP only title.

    Rare took the decision to force the merging of 3 very distinct types of gaming communities
    (Content-driven/Competitive/Creative)
    And hoping for unifying them onto the flag of a free for all brawler.

    Why not ? Say you
    Indeed, but in this case, why bothering with lore and narrative quests and activities unrelated whatsoever with PvP if not to deceive both Content-driven and Creative players into the notion that Sea of Thieves can also be an experience they can enjoy?

    Hence, most of the interactions you will get from forcing PvP out of players that do not want any of it, will be the dark side of the Force. I very much doubt you sustain a healthy community out of it.

    Nor is it advertised as:

    1. single player game
    2. co-op only game
    3. PvE only type game
    4. threat free game

    but rather a SHARED WORLD where they intentions of others are unknown...may be friend, may be foe. This IS in the text of the game description.

    No one is forced into PvP, you have the tools to escape and watch in order to prevent this from happening, playing enough will develop the skills and strategies to get better at it. You choosing not to learn those skills/strategies or use those tools is all on you. You can have a session without any PvP, but you might have to put in a little effort yourself to make it happen (like watching the horizon, being prepared to flee at a moment's notice and attempting to communicate). Don't get mad because YOU didn't research the game in question properly before buying. There is no design flaw, you just fail to get the main gist of the game and are seeking to water it down to suit your own desires (instead of actually LEARNING the game).

  • L0KKEE
    Seafarer

    @dlchief58

    "no one is forced into PvP"
    This is simply not true.
    There IS a learning curve during which you will have to be either fighting either fleeing but in both case a victim.
    Then again advocating PvP is not stomping over any other style of gameplay does not hold water.
    Can you flee while exploring ? Being chased by Skeletons ship ? Kraken ?

    There seems to be a rigidity in your mindset that feels like" somehow the victim is the culprit" and until he learn to dress properly "he had it coming".

    I do not wish to be forced to play against players and I regret that Sea of Thieves does not leave room for the likes of me.
    So until I get fed up with the mind set of part of this community, let me tell you how we play
    -during poor attendances hours
    -while playing solo, disconnecting when I am facing persistent fellow humans.
    So pray tell me which gamer experience should you feel outraged about ?
    Until I get to play without those stratagems I don't really care.

  • dlCHIEF58
    Legend
    Insider

    @juniperwinds said in "I don't really kill players.":

    This isn't the only pirate game out there. Not only are there buccaneer-themed platforms that offer far more PvE immersion, but they're solo-oriented experiences where there's absolutely nothing of consequence (if, I guess, ego is of consequence to you; if the risk of being beaten by another player makes you uncomfortable) on the line.

    I don't think this is true at all. There really aren't many pirate games out there, and none really at SoT's level of quality.

    I'm a new player, I like co-op, but have never been big on PVP. I have no problem doing it from time to time, but I think there's a big difference between spontaneous ship-to-ship fights and someone spawn camping or harassing you because they are bored. I actually stayed away from SoT for a year or so because, from forums/reddit, it seemed from the outside to feature a lot more of the latter.

    Having played for a week or two, I love just about everything about this game except the PVP. I like ship to ship battles sometimes (even getting sunk or losing treasure), but I don't always want to PVP. I've been harassed with an empty hold just trying to fish. That's fine, that's the game, but it's only ever fun for the other person.

    Let's see there is:

    Games based on the Pirates of the Caribbean movies
    Pirates of the Caribbean (Bethesda, RPG using Morrowind engine on OG Xbox - no connection to movies)
    Under the Jolly Roger
    Sid Meier's Pirates
    Age of Booty
    Atlas
    AC Blag Flag
    AC Rouge
    Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
    Lego Pirates of the Caribbean
    Risen 2: Dark Waters
    Monkey Island Games
    Age of Sail
    Age of Pirates series
    Tropico 2: Pirate Cove
    Sea Dogs
    Blood & Gold: Caribbean!
    Sea Dogs
    Corsairs: Conquest at Sea
    Skies of Arcadia
    Blackwake
    Cutthroats: Terror on the High Seas
    Tortuga
    Windward

    Just to name a few, and the better ones at that. Seems to me there is quite a few pirate themed games available so stop trying to change this one into something its not.

  • shifty189
    Marauder

    @l0kkee said in "I don't really kill players.":

    @dlchief58
    I do not wish to be forced to play against players and I regret that Sea of Thieves does not leave room for the likes of me.

    I understand what you are saying, but i don't go to a rock concert and "i wish this music wasn't so loud and had all that screaming." My point is that the very thing your complaining about is the very thing that makes this game unique. With no disrespect, this might not be your kind of game.

  • dlCHIEF58
    Legend
    Insider

    @l0kkee said in "I don't really kill players.":

    @dlchief58

    I do not wish to be forced to play against players and I regret that Sea of Thieves does not leave room for the likes of me.

    Then perhaps you shouldn't be playing a game that quite specifically is tagged as having PvP (both Steam and Microsoft store both contain this tag) instead of campaigning to change the fundamental design of the game. No secret was ever made that there was PvP in the game, in fact the advertising quite clearly states you WILL encounter other players and their motives are unknown - can be friend or foe.

    Game has always been marketed as an online game and a shared world experience. I really don't know what a lot of you expected, can you not READ?

  • JuniperWinds
    Seafarer
    Insider

    Just to name a few, and the better ones at that. Seems to me there is quite a few pirate themed games available so stop trying to change this one into something its not.

    I was worried I’d get a reply like this. Yes, there are a lot of "pirate-themed" games, that’s not at all what I was saying.

    Monkey Island is one of my favorite series of all time, but it's incredibly disingenuous to suggest the gameplay is even remotely similar, or Tropico, or Skies of Arcadia also great (and Deadfire), but it's an RPG with some turn-based ship battles in it. Blackwake is a PVP only game, so I don’t know why you’d include that as an alternative.

    Also a number of these are a decade old (Pirates can't even run properly on modern monitors without some widescreen fixes).

    I’ve either played or taken a hard look at every one of these games before coming to SoT. I actually spent several weeks looking for some sort of alternative that was solely PVE, including trying to hop on PoTB Sea again. There’s a legitimate dearth of good, modern, exploration / ship piratey games out there. Skull and Bones is supposed to come out some time in the next year, but who knows what that’ll look like after its extended development. It's wonderful just sailing the high seas, but there's not a lot of modern games that do that.

    I'm not trying to change anything, I accepted what kind of game this is and I'm good with it (except spawn camping or endless harassing).

    My point was just that there's currently a big vacuum for the kind of piratey PVE gameplay this game offers, which draw a lot of people. Just as you fiercely are defending the PVP aspects of this game because it offers a very unique PVP experience, non-PVPers feel the same way about the PVE, but many feel like they can't opt out of the other part of the game.

    TLDR - There aren't a lot of good, modern ship sailin' exploration games right now. SoT does an excellent job at filling that niche, which is why there are a lot of PVE players drawn to it.

  • L0KKEE
    Seafarer

    @dlchief58
    "Then perhaps you shouldn't be playing a game that quite specifically is tagged as having PvP"
    So will Elder Scroll Online... your point being ???

    "can you not READ?"
    Yes I can
    As you can refrain from being aggressive here but it seems your gaming habits must be bleeding into other fields of interaction with your peers.

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