Hitreg Has Entered its 3rd form

  • zxyoki
    Rogue
    Insider

    So, I see hitreg as this all covering word to describe when your bullets register in weird and unusual ways.
    I have seen the 3rd form of hitreg
    Form one is standard hitreg (shots not registering)
    Form two is backtracking (bullets missing but still doing damage)
    And the 3rd form is the Phantom/Ghost shot

    The phantom shot is when the bullet phases through someone, sometimes it does damage, sometimes it does not, you do not get a hitmarker for phantom shots.)

    https://streamable.com/2onh2s

    In this clip you can clearly see the bullet "phases" directly through his right arm, it still did damage though.

    The same occurred in this clip
    https://streamable.com/dwa216

    In both instances the player took damage

    This has been around for awhile, but thought I'd inform those who dont already know here on the forum.

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  • JadeScissors32
    Castaway

    Seen all 3 they all seems to be related to the fact that what you see on the screen (frame ) is dis-joined from game analytics.

  • RTL Saint
    Sailor

    @turkaspy Nah it seems that you're just moving so fast. no phasing bullets.

  • zxyoki
    Rogue
    Insider

    @rtl-saint https://streamable.com/kbw9fa its a little more clear in this clip.

  • RTL Saint
    Sailor

    @turkaspy nah it goes to the right to much.

  • Gundy the Shark
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @jadescissors32 that’s pretty much inevitable in multiplayer games though, due to the non-zero amount of time it takes to coordinate between client and server. Most games use some form of heuristic to approximate it with a fairly high degree of accuracy, though with a game like this it’s extremely difficult to find such a heuristic due to physics-in-motion (eg. Shooting a moving ship/player from a moving ship or shooting a moving player while flying through the air). It can probably be done, but it’s not an exact science which means constant revision.

    A good example of this is the map markers for ships flying a reaper’s bones emissary or reaper’s mark flag, or even the reaper chests/bounties. The markers don’t move smoothly on the map because they don’t use approximation heuristics. Instead it simply polls the current position recorded on the server.

    Give it time.

  • Amendelwyr
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @gundy-the-shark said in Hitreg Has Entered its 3rd form:

    @jadescissors32 that’s pretty much inevitable in multiplayer games though, due to the non-zero amount of time it takes to coordinate between client and server. Most games use some form of heuristic to approximate it with a fairly high degree of accuracy, though with a game like this it’s extremely difficult to find such a heuristic due to physics-in-motion (eg. Shooting a moving ship/player from a moving ship or shooting a moving player while flying through the air). It can probably be done, but it’s not an exact science which means constant revision.

    A good example of this is the map markers for ships flying a reaper’s bones emissary or reaper’s mark flag, or even the reaper chests/bounties. The markers don’t move smoothly on the map because they don’t use approximation heuristics. Instead it simply polls the current position recorded on the server.

    Give it time.

    Waits for another 5 years.
    "Hey, guys want to play Sea of Thieves?"
    Friend: "No."
    "They just fixed Hit-Reg."
    Friend: "Man, it's been waaaay too long for that... C'mon, let's play with our AR-sets and shoot some Covenant."

    But to contribute to the discussion; waiting has been done for a long time by the community. We're here, giving our feedback, that we're sick of it.

  • Gundy the Shark
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @amendelwyr I’m not saying they shouldn’t fix it. Im sure they’ll continue to refine it and (hopefully) make it better. I’m just saying something like this is not easy to fix and will take time. It may never be perfect for all we know.

  • mferr11
    Vanguard
    Insider

    I wonder how people would feel if they made gun shots hitscan instead of projectile based? It would definitely remove some of that piratey feel, but I'm certain it would make hitreg much more stable.

  • zxyoki
    Rogue
    Insider

    @amendelwyr Agreed, this should have development on a level similar to that they have on the pirate emporium.

    I mean seriously though, when it seems like more focus is on pushing microtransactions out than fixing the countless bugs in the game, that's a problem

  • JadeScissors32
    Castaway

    I think problem with fixing hitreg may be due to uniqueness of Sea Of Thieves. Its Cross platform, Unreal Tournament meets Zelda. Since its Unreal engine collision registration is done through frames, and if you have game that suppose to run on NTSC XBOX (25 frames) and on PC connected to 144 Hz Monitor pushing out 144 frames its easy to see its a challenge.

  • TaterToot132
    Marauder
    Insider

    People would notice bullets going through people a lot more if they increase bullet speed which would also be a big step in the right direction

  • TaterToot132
    Marauder
    Insider

    @gundy-the-shark no you do realize that their hit reg fixes have without fail made hit reg worse and introduced new problems like bullets going through people, they need to completely overhaul their combat system and get good players to test it out

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @mferr11 said in Hitreg Has Entered its 3rd form:

    I wonder how people would feel if they made gun shots hitscan instead of projectile based? It would definitely remove some of that piratey feel, but I'm certain it would make hitreg much more stable.

    It would probably make some weapons, like the EoR, overpowered because travel time would be eliminated.

    You can see the result when this happens by accident due to a bug with some guns in Warzone a few months ago:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erCDnXZ4y98

  • zxyoki
    Rogue
    Insider

    @tatertoot132 I agree tbh, they should a TON of development resources into identifying what causes it (if that means sitting on an island for an hour counting which shots regged and which didnt with exactly the same circumstances, so be it.

    Once they identify the issue, completely redoing bullet physics making it so they are not viable to hitreg.

  • JadeScissors32
    Castaway

    Not that I want to defend Rare but I think its not easy to fix their hitreg issue due to Cross platform play and them using Unreal engine.
    Increasing speed of bullet is not really going to help and it could make things worse. I will speculate they are using line trace collision detection and it happens in between frames, the reason why I am saying this is that Hitreg issue seems to happen more often as frame rate goes higher because time for system to draw a line and display bullet before next frame, at low end has to be rendered at 25 FPS (XBOX connected to NTSC TV) frames are generated every 40 ms (1000 ms /25 = 40) However on 144 Hz screen doing 144 FPS its less than 7 ms. Since its cross play I am assuming Rare did not want to do this on clients itself so line is drawn and positions are sent to server alongside all objects with collision mesh in view. So now Server figures out what that line crossed with, and since it has position of opponents and their collision objects it should be easy to mesh.
    So if you reduce FPS/ and offload some tasks to video card itself instead of game libraries (Override app settings) suddenly hitreg is non existing.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @jadescissors32 Hit registration should have nothing to do with your personal FPS or refresh rate. The server computes all of this because it already has the information it needs; player position and player rotation (where they are looking).

    The issue is somewhere in between the server tick rate, player to server latency, server to player latency and server performance (server fps fluctuation) causing incorrect hit calculations.

  • One Eyed Curly
    Master

    The problem here is about the lack of a hit marker? Because aside from that the players do die after two shots as you would normally expect from players at full health. The other thing here is the projectile based bullets, which require you to lead your target, even when shooting from the deck of a slow moving ship, let alone while being fired from a cannon, and of course latency factors throughout the system that can never be fully elliminated. I would be curious to hear what the developers make of such clips, because I'm sorry, but to me it looks like nit picking.

  • JadeScissors32
    Castaway

    @d3adst1ck Maybe it should not have anythign to do with FPS, but I used my Radeon Adrenaline to override game inefficiencies and I am Hitreg issue free for some time. If exists I don't see it anymore and suddenly despite of being absolutely mediocre PVP player, I win a lot of encounters. I had been using Double gun for long time and hitreg was driving me crazy, now I am like Jack Sparrow mutated from Agent 47. I had not solved issue itself but seems few adjustments helped game to work through its limitations. All points to be Unreal Engine collision detection in cross platform play. I could be wrong and I just got very lucky. I take it either way.

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