PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI)

@robrechtve said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@bloodybil said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

We don't want to split players, we don't want to split player types, the whole identity of sea of thieves is a shared world and the different kind of motivations within it.

And yet The Arena exists and splits off the 'Only combat, no open world!' player type from the rest of the players.

And people who mostly play The Arena don't participate in the shared world either.

So...

Your comparison is invalid, you compare a mode that represent a tiny and limited portion of what the game is. Arena is in no way a replacement to the Adventure mode.

@rowge-gaming said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@kaijoi "Most video games don't run by a majority rules policy" I would agree that some video game companies don't, but most do. It's called market demand. Big game companies have to turn a profit. The way you do that is by appealing to the biggest audience.

And since Rare keeps adding more events to entice player interaction, a whole faction to add even more player interaction on top of it, as well as making clear that PVE is to remain in the shared world by adding checkpoint system to tall tales, doesn't it look like they are exactly doing that, appealing to the biggest audience?

At what point does it start to dawn on you that you might not be it? (Yet are still welcome to join that shared world you shun so much)

@robrechtve

If PvE only servers would kill the game because 'every PvE-er would flock to them', then The Arena would have killed the game because every PvP-er would have flocked to it.

PVPers and PVErs are completely different player bases, you can't compare them together. The reason why adventure mode didn't die for the PVPers when they added arena, was because there was incentive to still play adventure mode as a PVPer,

Arena was made for people who ONLY want to PVP, no tuccing, no stealing 50,000+ gold, it was made for ship v ship and PVP combat. If you are a PVPer, you can play both adventure and arena, because you have incentive to play both.

You have incentive to play adventure because you are able to tucc on someone's ship, explode them with kegs, and steal their hard earned loot they spent hours trying to get. You have a REASON to play adventure.

With a PVE only mode, the only people who would play that are PVErs who don't want any fighting. Which means that specifically for PVErs there is no incentive to play a game mode where you can lose all your loot. You would much rather play a mode where it is peaceful, and you can do your voyages in peace, rather than play a mode where you are in constant fear that you could die.

It also goes against the core of the game to have a mode for players who don't want to sail across the open world, but just want a quick, action-packed session of looting and shooting where they're guaranteed to have lots of combat with other Crews without any Forts, Skelly Ships, Karen, Meg, TTs or Journeys getting in the way of pure PvP combat...

But that exists. And it didn't 'destroy the game'.

Again, what I said above, there is no incentive for PVErs to play a mode where they are terrified of being killed, when they could just play a mode where they are safe and sound. The reason why this is bad is because PVPers rely on PVErs to provide the loot.

If PVErs are removed from the game, PVPers will leave, and the hundreds of streamers who only steal loot will leave the game, SOT will lose popularity from people like Pace and Summit, so they will lose a MASSIVE amount of their player base. SOT will not die by keeping adventure mode to 1 mode, so there is no reason to change it.

If you genuinely believe that adding a PvE Only option would ruin the game, let me assure you:

Ultima Online got a PvE Only option and it didn't die because of it, it got more popular and better, including the PvPvE part. (It died years later because of age and an ill-advised attempt to 'update' the game by adding really ugly 3D).

World of Warcraft got PvE servers when the beta proved that 'always on faction PvP', originally a selling point of the game, really sucked for low level/skill players and it didn't get worse (well, not because of that, any way) and still isn't dead. (Why? Why won't you die, WoW? Go into the light!)

Out of all of the WoW clones, only the ones that had PvE Only options survived, because while a lot of players in the WoW community during beta claimed that 'always on' PvP was awesome, the games that actually listened to that soon discovered that past a certain point retention of new players dies off once there's enough greedy players with experience and skill who like to give new players a 'lesson' (spoilers: not an actual lesson) that even if each one of them individually only attacked one player per day, there were enough of them that new players were getting constantly destroyed.

Again, those games don't have massive communities built around stealing other player's loot. Like I said above, Pvpers rely on PVErs to get them their loot, so if you take out the PVErs and give them a private server, PVPers will completely leave the game and the game will be changed forever.

At the end of the day, it's up to the developers to decide what they want to do. The developers have said many times that they want people to be together, the PVPers, PVErs, and RPers. That's their vision for the game, and that vision won't be compromised because there aren't enough people leaving SOT since there's no PVE only mode.

The only way a PVE mode would be added is if they had an absolutely massive amount of players leave their game for that reason, if that doesn't happen, it will never get added.

@rowge-gaming

There will always be people who want to play adventure because they like it.

Of course there will always be people who will play adventure, but there is no incentive for a PVE only player to go into adventure where they could be killed, when there is a mode for a private server. And since a a huge chunk of the players fall into the PVE only category, that will put a huge dent in the multiplayer adventure mode player base if a PVE only mode was added.

Like I said before, the developers will never add a PVE only mode. The only way that would happen is if almost everyone said, "I WANT PVE ONLY," And that won't happen anytime soon.

@rowge-gaming

These posts are people that want to enjoy themselves playing this game, and they just want to play by themselves or with friends. I am truly baffled at why this is so difficult to comprehend.

I understand why people would want a PVE only mode, you don't like the PVP aspect of the game and you would rather the game be more like single player Minecraft, where it's an open world against the game, rather than an open world against other players. If you don't like the PVP part of the game, it makes sense that you would want it to be removed, or at the very least have it so you can choose whether you want to have PVP or not.

There is no evidence to support the claim that adding an option for players to progress without the the threat of PvP will "kill the game" or "split the community", etc.

Of course there is no evidence because this has never happened in SOT, they have never added a mode for solely PVE.

It will split the community for the reason because of the post I said a while ago:

If you add PVE only, PVErs would leave the multiplayer servers, which would make the PVPers leave, which would make the streamers leave, which would kill the games popularity from streaming, and that would remove an entire chunk of their player base.

@robrechtve said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@bloodybil said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

Your comparison is invalid, you compare a mode that represent a tiny and limited portion of what the game is. Arena is in no way a replacement to the Adventure mode.

Doesn't matter. Carebear Mode would also in no way be a replacement for the full experience of Adventure mode.

If you can achieve everything in your carebear mode than you could in regular mode, yes it becomes a replacement. It's a carbon copy minus the risk of players. You must be in quite a state of denial to not understand this.

Sure, it's a less limited portion, but that actually really just makes that original statement by the executive producer even worse to base your assumptions on.

They said they weren't going to mess with the core premise of SoT... And then they cut out pretty much all the PvE and nearly all of the open world stuff just to create a mode specifically for the people who want (near) instant PvP action without having to hunt or chase their opponents or even be particularly alert in scanning the horizon because all the opposing ships are permanently displayed on the map.

And arena messes in no way with the main mode of the game, it's an addition to it without being close to replace it, all the while providing a different experience.

It would be like having a separate mode for tall tales only, with only the tale's islands available in their respective scenario without being able to explore the rest of the map. Would this be a replacement to adventure mode. Don't think so.

@robrechtve

You didn't do a counter argument to my post, you chose one thing to argue and that's it. I gave you answers for your questions in my original post too.

You:

But if Hardcore PvP-ers get a mode all to themselves that's specifically designed to cut out all the stuff they're not interested in, even if that stuff (such as sailing long distances in the open world and encountering Karen, Skelly ships and Meg) includes main selling points of the game, then Hardcore PvE-ers deserve the same consideration.

Me:

If PVErs are removed from the game, PVPers will leave, and the hundreds of streamers who only steal loot will leave the game, SOT will lose popularity from people like Pace and Summit, so they will lose a MASSIVE amount of their player base. SOT will not die by keeping adventure mode to 1 mode, so there is no reason to change it.

Arena didn't remove all the stuff PVPers didn't like about the game, it enhanced the part they did like (PVP, Ship vs Ship) But like I said above, PVPers still had a reason to play adventure mode:

You have incentive to play adventure because you are able to tucc on someone's ship, explode them with kegs, and steal their hard earned loot they spent hours trying to get. You have a REASON to play adventure.

@rowge-gaming
There are PVP-PVPers, that's the category I fall into.

Even Summit grinds forts and journeys once in a while

Summit doesn't grind forts, he only did tall tales to get the curse, if there was an option to steal tall tales he would've definitely done that. As for forts, I never saw him decide to sail to a fort and do it just for fun, maybe in an open crew, but I don't remember him just doing PVE for the fun of it.

Elite Dangerous is the perfect example because it is almost exactly the same situation where players have the option to progress and grind privately and take their gains into the open world and compete against other players. Players have the option in that game to take a breather and just enjoy themselves for a bit if they get overwhelmed in the shared world, and then return when they are ready. Having a private option didn't make PVPers leave, it didn't make the streamers leave, and it didn't "kill the game."

I've never played Elite Dangerous, does it have a massive community (like SOT) that it's entire existence is based on grinding to the top by stealing other player's loot? Not just a couple hundred people, but thousands of players who ONLY steal loot and never PVE?

@robrechtve

At which point I can only say that PvE-ers paid for the game. They paid to enjoy the game, they did not pay so they could work for the enjoyment of others.

The game is advertised as a pirate game, it's also in the name, "Sea of Thieves." And while they are working for the enjoyment of others, that's their choice, they could easily start PVPing if they want to. That's the risk that comes with playing SOT, just because it sucks that you lost your loot, you have to expect that because that's exactly what you signed up for.

If you don't want any danger then go play AC4, that's a pirate game with no other players that will attempt to kill you while you're driving around doing the missions.

@bloodybil said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@rowge-gaming said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@kaijoi "Most video games don't run by a majority rules policy" I would agree that some video game companies don't, but most do. It's called market demand. Big game companies have to turn a profit. The way you do that is by appealing to the biggest audience.

And since Rare keeps adding more events to entice player interaction, a whole faction to add even more player interaction on top of it, as well as making clear that PVE is to remain in the shared world by adding checkpoint system to tall tales, doesn't it look like they are exactly doing that, appealing to the biggest audience?

At what point does it start to dawn on you that you might not be it? (Yet are still welcome to join that shared world you shun so much)

Sometimes I wonder where people get their degrees in video game marketing from.

@robban009 They are talking of Private servers for events with no progression, like last month's Athena's Trial event a bunch of streamers did.
In the stream with Peeve a few months ago, Jon (one of the developers) straight up said No to PvE servers. And it is not the first time the devs have said they are not looking to make PvE servers. The game is and always will be a PvPvE game.

@orchideelamm921 pretty funny seeing as this game is not just on the Microsoft store.

@robrechtve said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@bloodybil said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

And arena messes in no way with the main mode of the game, it's an addition to it without being close to replace it, all the while providing a different experience.

It would be like having a separate mode for tall tales only, with only the tale's islands available in their respective scenario without being able to explore the rest of the map. Would this be a replacement to adventure mode. Don't think so.

It's not my fault that Rare designed SoT with a lot more PvE than PvP content so that if you strip out the PvP and leave in only the PvE you end up with an experience closer to Adventure than if you strip out the PvE and leave only the PvP, take that up with them.

And it's not their fault either if you simply made a poor choice in buying a game not suited for you. I have nothing to take up with them, since I knew what I bought and agreed fully to what the game promise and is delivering, PVE and PVP fused together. Again, your buyer's remorse is nobody's problem but yours. Take that up to customer support, ask for a refund or whatever, and learn your lesson in consumerism.