Hit Registration/Hitmarkers

  • TLDR; Hitmarkers should be server-side for a number of reasons so long as hit registration remains an issue.

    Hit registration in this game has been absolutely godawful for months and shows no signs of improving (even when they supposedly improve it). I've just come to accept that a game with fast moving ships, buoyancy, and projectile physics running on ~34 tick rate cloud-based servers will probably never have good hit reg (though it would be nice if they used some of the money dumped into the emporium to make the move to better servers). That being said, the way hitmarkers currently work only exacerbates the issue. There are times where I shoot someone with EoR and/or flintlock 3-6 times in a row, with hitmarkers for every shot and no food eaten by the enemy, and they still don't die. At times hitmarkers/the flinch animation accompanying a shot seem to be totally meaningless, all because they are entirely client-side.

    Here's what I propose; make hitmarkers server-side. That is to say, don't give the client a hitmarker until there has been communication between the server and the client confirming that damage has actually been dealt. This wouldn't differ significantly from the damage log system in place in many other games. It would perhaps lead to a slight delay in receiving a hitmarker after dealing damage (particularly when playing on higher ping), but that is not a considerable enough downside to outweigh the benefits. I would rather have a delayed, guaranteed indication of damage than the constant, meaningless false positives we currently deal with.

    I can only think of 3 reasons hitmarkers have remained client side all of this time in spite of atrocious hit reg:

    • The devs don't see bad hit reg/false hitmarkers as an issue. If that's the case then they're naive.
    • The devs can't be bothered to make the change. Frankly that would be laziness.
    • Perhaps the most likely; the devs don't want the game's notoriously bad hit reg to be even more obvious than it already is. Currently you generally only get a hitmarker if your shot hits the enemy on your end, regardless of whether it actually does damage to them, which for the sake of appearances seems to make sense. With server side hitmarkers you could miss the enemy on your screen and still deal damage/receive a hitmarker so long as the server accepted the miss as a hit (known as a backtrack, which is very common but currently doesn't give hitmarkers). This would make the hit reg issue more apparent but less frustrating.

    To me it is more important that the player knows whether or not they've actually damaged their opponent than for hitmarkers to always correspond to hits on the client's screen. Ideally hit reg wouldn't be an issue in the first place and client side hitmarkers would be reflective of actual damage, but clearly that isn't and likely never will be the case. In the very least this change would make it apparent when you're getting "hit regged" or "Rared" while in combat, allowing you to adjust your shots and plays accordingly rather than trying to decipher a string of potentially meaningless hitmarkers. Client-side hitmarkers are generally fine in games with working hit registration—SoT is certainly not one of those games.

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  • It also sucks how some people have worse hitreg than others. People I play with tell me i usually die from 2 shots but it might take 3. It almost never takes 4 shots to kill me. But some people I play with literally have to be shot 9 times for them to die and it’s absolutely horrible

  • @sherpa725 Yeah, such variance is incredibly annoying at times. I assume it just has to do with each respective server and each player's connection to said server. Some servers are worse than others; I can usually tell when I'm tanking damage. Generally speaking you tend to have to back track people that have high ping, particularly when they're moving perpendicular to you (the faster they're going the further back you have to shoot). Sorta sucks all around—nothing is worse than seeing someone completely miss a blunder shot on your screen but still getting 1 tapped. All very frustrating and annoying, only made worse by worthless hitmarkers.

  • Hitreg has been awful since Shrouded Spoils, Sniper/Pistol are in such a bad place due to the shots being a 50/50 chance to deal any damage at all.

  • @dont-x-speak I definitely think the hit reg issues themselves are just based in the complexity of the game (ship physics, water physics, ballistics, etc.) and the unfortunately subpar servers the game has been hosted on since shrouded spoils. The issue wasn't nearly as bad before they moved the game to the Microsoft Azure servers its now on. In that regard hit reg isn't entirely the dev team's fault by any means. However, I really wish they would make hitmarkers server-side given how bad hit reg is—leaving hitmarkers to be purely client-side is there fault, unless there is something stopping them from changing it that I'm unaware of.

  • @itz-majman Yeah, I really wish they had never made that move to Microsoft Azure servers for Shrouded Spoils. I could be wrong, but if memory serves hit reg issues were very rare before that change. I wasn't nearly as good at combat back then, so maybe I just didn't notice, but there is no doubt that the issues have gotten steadily worse since then.

  • @sword-noodler said in Hit Registration/Hitmarkers:

    @itz-majman Yeah, I really wish they had never made that move to Microsoft Azure servers for Shrouded Spoils. I could be wrong, but if memory serves hit reg issues were very rare before that change. I wasn't nearly as good at combat back then, so maybe I just didn't notice, but there is no doubt that the issues have gotten steadily worse since then.

    Bro this has absolute nothing todo which cloud server platform they one. It's a software issue they need to fix. Starting with server hit markers instead of client side. But Azure is not the problem.

  • @sword-noodler

    I completely agree with your post besides the part where you suggest that devs may be lazy or naive.
    Yeah, hit-marker should be server-side.
    I want the information to be reliable. It would make combat much much more enjoyable.

  • Here's what I propose; make hitmarkers server-side. That is to say, don't give the client a hitmarker until there has been communication between the server and the client confirming that damage has actually been dealt.

    Surely, this is effectively what happens now. We are dealing with moving assailants firing at moving targets, often on a moving platform (the ship) on a rolling sea. Of course all hit confirmation has to happen at a server, to determine whether the ball (or in the case of a blunderbuss, something like ten balls) flying at a finite speed (not instantaneously) hits its target. Only when a hit is confirmed, at the server, is damage dealt.

    Delaying "hit registration" markers until the server confirms the hit (and communicates that back to the firer) wont actually improve any player's experience of how many shots they have to fire to kill their target. Right now, we have what might be called "optimistic hit registration" determined by the client, which is subject to confirmation at the server. As an Aussie, I frequently play on US or EU servers, with a 300ms ping. Without "optimistic hit registration", I might have to wait half a second, or more, for a server-side confirmed hit marker to appear. Client-side "optimistic hit registration" gives me more instant feedback, which very often is proved correct.

    It would perhaps lead to a slight delay in receiving a hitmarker after dealing damage (particularly when playing on higher ping), but that is not a considerable enough downside to outweigh the benefits. I would rather have a delayed, guaranteed indication of damage than the constant, meaningless false positives we currently deal with.

    This is exactly right. If we were to switch to server-side ("pessimistic") hit-registration, our gunnery would not suddenly improve. However, from people who do not understand the issue as well as @Sword-Noodler, I think we would start to get complaints of "I am sure that I was aiming straight at my target, when I fired, but did not get a hit registration marker at all!"

  • I have noticed as well the hit registration only seems to get worse with each update. It's not just a PvP element anymore, we were unable to hit the meg when she charges at the boat, the cannonballs seem to phase through. Hitting players is also very wonky and has seem to have gotten worse in water combat again. They seem eager to close the servers down for maintenance to heavily nerf the new content but not so keen to rectify the ongoing issue, but it may be that there's a bigger picture to it that we can't see behind closed doors.

  • @sword-noodler the servers have always been on microsofts azure game fabric servers, they never moved them...

  • Hitreg has been for broken more than year now, often getting more broken after every patch. Haven't bothered logging in at all anymore regardless of the new content they've added. Not even gonna bother mentioning all the other old bugs that are still around lol.

    I'm sure you'll see an announcement in the upcoming months where they'll promise to fix all the bugs soon™. Think I heard that one ten times by now.

    Game as a service or paid early access, just a different description at this point sadly.

  • @papy-pitch Yeah, it's not like me to take stabs at the devs usually...it's just frustrating when such a huge issue is left all but unaddressed for so long.

  • @surveyorpete You're correct, I'm not trying to say it would in any way improve the hit reg issue itself. I suppose it becomes a matter of personal preference/situation to an extent, something which I had not necessarily thought of. I could see how rather delayed hitmarkers when playing on particularly high ping, as in your case, would potentially be an annoyance (though I still think I would take guaranteed accurate info with a delay over potentially false info). I could also see how server-side markers would potentially confuse players that are unfamiliar with how...temperamental...SoT hit registration can be. My issue is that client-side markers being "very often proved correct" is not good enough, especially since "very often" seems to be a stretch in my experience. If I hit someone coming at me I want to know for sure I've dealt damage, as my next play is entirely dependent on that knowledge. It also leads to annoying/misleading callouts so often; "I shot so and so, hopefully it actually regged and he's 1 hit".

    Perhaps ideally it would be an option that one could toggle in the settings, with the default being optimistic so as not to confuse newer players. This would of course make it far more complicated I imagine (I'm no expert, for all I know such a thing being an individual player setting may not even be feasible). I still think overall pessimistic registration is favorable given how often client-side markers are wrong/the nature of hit reg at the moment, but that's just me.

  • @callmebackdraft Maybe I'm misremembering, but I could've sworn they moved the servers in some way with the release of shrouded spoils...perhaps they were always on Azure but not hosted by PlayFab until that point? Maybe it is unrelated and I am misremembering—regardless hit reg has gotten steadily worse since roughly that time.

  • @mentimjojo This is absolutely an issue related to their server platform. Perhaps it's a software issue as well, but I seriously don't think this game will ever have consistently good hit reg on the servers it's currently hosted on. 34 tick servers are bad to begin with, throw in ballistics (rather than hit scan), fast moving ships, and buoyancy and of course registration is a mess. There is way too much info being processed way too fast for a 34 tick rate server to reliably keep up.

  • @sword-noodler said in Hit Registration/Hitmarkers:

    @mentimjojo This is absolutely an issue related to their server platform. Perhaps it's a software issue as well, but I seriously don't think this game will ever have consistently good hit reg on the servers it's currently hosted on. 34 tick servers are bad to begin with, throw in ballistics (rather than hit scan), fast moving ships, and buoyancy and of course registration is a mess. There is way too much info being processed way too fast for a 34 tick rate server to reliably keep up.

    Everything you just mentioned is a software related, not server related. Software determinations how often per second (tick) it gathers date. 34 ticks per second means the software updated its own info 34 times per second, and also gathers that info from game clients. You really need to learn how software/hardware works mate.

    Who said SoT is running on 34 ticks btw? They never said something public about it.

  • @mentimjojo Alright, you know more than me on the software side of things but I'm not here for semantics, I'm here for gameplay issues. This is where I'm getting the 34 tick rate from; could be outdated, but I kind of doubt it. If they can solve hit reg itself, the root of the issue, that would of course be the ideal—I just don't see that happening anytime soon (or ever) given how long they've supposedly been working on the matter. Maybe I'm wrong—maybe next month's bug fix update will bring flawless reg, one can only hope. I really doubt it though.

  • @sword-noodler said in Hit Registration/Hitmarkers:

    @mentimjojo Alright, you know more than me on the software side of things but I'm not here for semantics, I'm here for gameplay issues. This is where I'm getting the 34 tick rate from; could be outdated, but I kind of doubt it. If they can solve hit reg itself, the root of the issue, that would of course be the ideal—I just don't see that happening anytime soon (or ever) given how long they've supposedly been working on the matter. Maybe I'm wrong—maybe next month's bug fix update will bring flawless reg, one can only hope. I really doubt it though.

    I understand your here for the game issues, and I agree with it ;), I'm only saying its not Azure's fault. If they would run SoT on Google cloud, or Amazon cloud it would still have the same issues!

    Call of duty Warzone runs on 20 tick rate and has way better hit reg, so it's definitely just something in code causing hitreg to fail. Hitreg was good for a while but got bad again so they can do it. Also hitmarkers need to be triggered server side, because now we think we hit someone while that is not the case. Could take a lot of confusion away with server triggered hitmarkers.

    Lets just hope they can/will fix it in the upcoming months.

  • @mentimjojo Hmm, you probably are right then. I always assumed games like COD could get away with lower tick rates because of hit scan and relatively small/static maps, but Warzone goes against that theory and functions fine, as you point out. There are still more factors going into hit reg in SoT than most games which probably makes it a complicated issue, but I'm sure you're right that it could at least be improved quite a bit even with the current tick rate. We'll just have to wait and see I guess. Definitely still think we need server side markers in the meantime in the very least, glad we're in agreement on that.

  • How about just FIX HITREG IN GENERAL. Like seriously it has been a huge issue for over a year now and seems to only be getting worse with each update.

  • @frx-odyssey That'll be the day huh. No excuse for them not to at least improve it in next month's QoL update, but I doubt it'll get any better. Probably worse as always.

  • @mentimjojo said in Hit Registration/Hitmarkers:

    I understand your here for the game issues, and I agree with it ;), I'm only saying its not Azure's fault. If they would run SoT on Google cloud, or Amazon cloud it would still have the same issues!

    Call of duty Warzone runs on 20 tick rate and has way better hit reg, so it's definitely just something in code causing hitreg to fail. Hitreg was good for a while but got bad again so they can do it. Also hitmarkers need to be triggered server side, because now we think we hit someone while that is not the case. Could take a lot of confusion away with server triggered hitmarkers.

    Lets just hope they can/will fix it in the upcoming months.

    I've thought this same thing as well. It annoys me when people blindly blame 'cloud servers' as the issue. Warzone has over 6 times the maximum players as SoT, helicopters that fly 10x as fast as the boats in Sea of Thieves, it's got projectiles, and no hit reg issues, at least nowhere near SoT. I have to believe this is just a software issue with Sea of Thieves as you say.

    In regard to the server side hit markers, I think it's a good idea but maybe it should be locked behind an opt-in settings option, just so it doesn't confuse new players when they don't get hit markers, or get delayed hit markers.

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