Alright we have an issue in our hands!

  • trik68
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    I want to try to explain this so people do not get heated in here and I will try to do the same because I just want this game fixed. I have been losing friends and players I know because of the bugs and server issues to this game. With hardly anything coming out with the new C and P of an event I kind of expected some fixes. (yes I am talking about the dumb presents you have to give to players) (Dont talk about x cancel being fixed because I viewed that has a feature not an exploit but I am not posting for that because I gave up on balancing this game out). Now I am fighting for a game to function properly.

    I will be listing bugs after my proposal, so if you do not agree with me at least I can point out the issues with this game so you can "hate the game too" lol (joke sorta).

    Proposal: I believe we need to remove stuff from the game so we can have better servers. Things that need to be worked on is fire primarily. Not only is it not balanced but it bugs the servers out (I'll explain in my bug list). If we take out both Forts that will help too. Fleets also lag up the server because boats affect the game the most. They could remove this too. Half the spawn rate of items on beaches and animals. Make the waves slightly smaller to decrease lag also. Write your opinion what you can give up in order to have better servers down below. Trying to find a group consensus!

    Would I miss these things yes because this is content but the servers are actually broken. Why do I think they should remove things instead of upgrading servers? It is because I believe they do not care or too lazy to upgrade their servers. Which literally you flick dollars to server companies so they can flip a switch (ahem cough cough Microsoft which they are owned by).

    Bug List:

    Server lag: Players who rubber band on your screen but not on theirs. Players can either cause this because of advance movement (fast movement) or just because the internet at players houses is bad so it looks like they are doing advanced movement. So is it players fault? Not really because if you play on your own coast then you get 60 ping or more which is outrageous (60 ping on a good server). This can cause players who live next to the servers to have an advantage. I jokingly say that they are pay to win because they paid or rent a living space that lets them have 30 ping or less. Their blundis are op and they will win 50/50 sword fight scenarios every time. I may have clips if I haven't purged them already

    Hitreg: This is caused by server lag or bad servers. For example, someone running from the left side of your screen to the right. Say you hit your shot with a sniper and you get a hit marker. Then you do it again after reloading and you get a hit marker. You do this all without them healing. You think they would die since two sniper shots will kill someone right? Nope, one or both shots didn't register even if you get a hit marker. These things can happen with a sword where you get sound ques but it doesn't actually hit.
    How can you bypass this? You essentially have to aim behind them by a certain amount based on their ping which can be literally a body gap or less/more. How do I know this? Because I tdm and I play with people in the same call. We ask each other questions on if the shot hit. Or even whats their ping and collectively we figured out that the hitbox follows the player model. The servers are not made to have two or three galleys on one island having players attack each other. (hmmmm wonder how arena is a thing). It is hard, on the servers because of the physics of characters, bullets, and boats. This is insanely frustrating because you waste bullets because you actually have good aim and you hit someone. Go test it you will get the same results. I have clips

    Server invincibility: also hitreg but became a new category since fire came out. Before it took three or more galleys to be rubbing on each other to happen. Fire can cause this too with only two ships fighting. This causes players to not be able to do damage across the server so no one can die (the only damage you take is fire). This causes players to troll enemy teams by grabbing the wheel or grabbing anchor and keeping it down (smartest play since anything else you do doesn't matter). In the end people could start dropping like flies or randomly people start taking damage. This can last a minute or three at a time. People have called me hacker because of this although they are too uhhhh... unintelligent to know that I am shooting them more than they are me. ALSO EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING BUG. I have clips

    ADS bug: worse than any other. This is caused by certain inputs I believe but it is hard to recreate without recording my inputs (too lazy to do because I doubt they will fix it). This causes the player to not shoot when they scope in. This can be crucial in PvP every millisecond counts in fights. I could lose a jump on someone. The only way to shoot again is to unaim and either hipfire or reaim and shoot. BTW the ads bug can happen multiple times in a row soo GG. I have clips

    Skelle bug: Another fan fav. This cause your aim to not be accurate to where the bullet goes. This also causes items your holding in your hand to be somewhere else on your screen (which causes like a sniper to be covering your screen way more than before). How is this caused? It is because the servers cannot load in your player model to your game. How do you know if it is happening? You will not have hands in fp mode and when you emote you are a green skelle. Maps cannot be read if this bug happens to you. So do the players who look like green skelles have the same issue? No its the servers that could not load their model to you on your end. So can someone have this issue without you knowing on the other team? yes. Is this caused by your hardware? no, its servers trust me RTX 2080 ti graphics cards have this issue. I have a clip I believe for sword and sniper with this happening. I would have to dig for it.

    Sword bugs: Sword hitreg one. Sword lunge hitreg two (doesn't happen often). I have done it enough to realize it is an actual bug not hitreg tho most of the time. This happens on max range sword lunge. (I mean block jump lunge/ and I mean MAX range). At the very end, you get the sound que that you hit and a spark on wood if it's next to a player that you think you hit. Since I got both you would think I hit them right? Nope. It happens way more often after the sword range nerf. So I believe it is a coding issue. So tone back the sound ques and spark animations so it matches what the game actually does should be an easy fix (not many people know about this so hopefully I can bring it to spotlight). So the person does not get knocked back or damaged but since you whizzed by and the moved away you think you hit them most of the time. I have multiple clips on YT I know for sure I can link with a timestamp if you wanna see this bug. This also causes lunge cooldown bugs.
    Cooldown bugs after: So the bug happens in different ways. Sometimes you can look around, switch weapons, and attack when in this cooldown faze. It's like a half sword lunge cooldown. Other times I can move around but cannot turn or attack. Sometimes I can attack and move but not turn. This happened before they removed the sword lunge cooldown cancel but now it is more noticeable since I am not able to do these movements. So in a way, they passively buffed a bug in the game. When these cooldown bugs happen tho sometimes I can hop out of it because of muscle memory of me freaking out going wt*f is happening right now. (what I mean by hop out is the lunge cooldown cancel). These cooldown bugs tho, I am unsure if I have a clip but will do it when it happens again.

    Health bar bug: Two parts to this. One is caused by server lag and hitreg. Your health depletes randomly causing death/kill delays. First shot finally registering once you get hit by second bullet when someone DG. May have clip will do it again if it happens during tdm.
    The second issue is food glitch. This happens when you spam m1 while trying to heal when freaking out because I do not want to die. I believe it happens because m1 spam may cancel it at certain frames near the end of the eating animation. Very noticeable in tdms. The food stays in inventory but you go through the whole eating anim for it to not work.

    I am sure I am missing many others but this can be one long post if so.

    If you made it this far thanks for going through and educating yourself on why this game needs to be fixed. I will try to provide clips if people ask. Some are hard to prove because people will say I hit x or something to cancel certain things. My clips will not show a virtual keyboard and mouse input so you can only see from my POV.

    So lets try to do the easy fix remove things from the game so hitreg can get better then work on those bugs. Put your opinion down below what you are willing to lose as content in order to fix the game.

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  • EGGamer13
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    If they start removing content just for the servers to work, we will end up with the launch day of the game, and the people that were left playing this game are going to leave it. That is not the solution. The solution to fix servers is not going to be done soon, because it needs time. In order to fix servers they need a couple of things:

    1. Upgrade their servers: This is not feasible right now, because servers cost a lot. But now that we have the emporium, they're starting to get more revenue, so maybe they can upgrade servers in the future.
    2. Optimize their code: They need to start revising old code and rewriting it in order to optimize it. I'm sure they have a lot of spaghetti code there, that makes the game run less smooth. It would also be recomendable to upgrade their Unreal Engine to a more recent version. Right now they are stuck in Unreal Engine 4.10, which is an old version of unreal (of 2015). Upgrading unreal woul give them more tools, but, it would break a lot of their systems, as they have customized the editor a lot. Upgrading unreal will be something that would require a lot of time, but I think it would be good at the end.

    TL:DR, the solution is not to remove content, optimizing the content that we already have IS the solution.

  • ryannewbz
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    Just make a sea of thieves 2 but overwrite the exsisting game with the better engine and an upto date network code...The graphics and such are already there so no need to start another game from scratch. We just want more major content drops and fun things to do/interact with.

    The more content we see and knowing you're actually putting the emporium money to actually making New content (not prelaunch cut content thats being drip fed to this day) then we will gladly support you. only if we see actual improvements! I love this game but lately it's becoming obvious nothings actually moving forward.

  • Joe Krakatoa
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    OP could just upgrade his hardware to improve his SoT experience.

    Likely Rare has already optimized the game as much as possible, especially on low end hardware.

  • ScallywagMango
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    @barnabas-seadog The hit-reg is still an issue regarding sword and guns. I have a low-end pc that meets the minimum requirements and play with someone who has a higher-end PC. We get hit-reg issues that make the game taxing, especially when you know you hit your shots. Rare could optimize the game further as this issue still persists.

  • Sicrobite
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    @barnabas-seadog Please stop trolling we already told you its not how it works.

    @trik68
    Now i believe RARE can get a lot of memory out if they review their game core system ( Shipping and water/wind simulation ). They even said themselves that it is what is costing a HUGE amount of memory on their servers which does not allow them to add many more stuff in.

    For example, they could remove all the occuring variables that help simulating "realistic" shipping, starting with removing the waves ability to move your ship, just let the ship go in straight line if the wheel is straight, its not realistic yes but who cares its a video game and other parts of the gameplay are way more important than this (like combat).

    Now there is many other stuff they can try in insider like reducing Z axis level on calm water or maybe try to rework how sailing in the wind work and stuff like that.

    Sadly i strongly believe the devs dont care anymore, i've posted something saying that they should prioritize optimisation instead of spamming trash content every month and a Rare employee locked it because trolls "insult" themselves in comments .. ( or maybe they just dont want to bother with real issues and keep making money out of childrens playing their game ? )

  • UrihamRayne
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    @sicrobite

    i've posted something and a Rare employee locked it

    I'm glad you're upset about that.

  • D3ADST1CK
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    You think bigger waves cause lag? Haha

  • Sicrobite
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    @d3adst1ck Not directly, bigger waves mean that the ship and its entire functionning is moving in Z axis and their poor servers cant handle accurate fighting when people are fighting on it.

    It is one of the cause why hit registration is awful.

    @UrihamRayne I'm not upset, i'm not even surprised at Rare's poor response at this point. If trolling people makes you happy then keep on going pal .. it seems the game does not have that much time before it reaches the end

  • D3ADST1CK
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    @sicrobite said in Alright we have an issue in our hands!:

    @d3adst1ck Not directly, bigger waves mean that the ship and its entire functionning is moving in Z axis and their poor servers cant handle it when people are fighting on it.

    It is one of the cause why hit registration is awful.

    That has nothing to do with lag. It's a number in a math formula. Changing the number doesn't magically create lag.

  • Sicrobite
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    @d3adst1ck

    When the server is awful, too much math is too much. Its part of the hitreg issue, it does not sync with the client

  • UrihamRayne
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    [Mod edit - keep things non-personal, please!]

  • D3ADST1CK
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    @sicrobite said in Alright we have an issue in our hands!:

    @d3adst1ck

    When the server is awful, too much math is too much.

    Hahahaha.

  • StillVill
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    does anyone here know the engine capabilities, worked on programming of the game, knowledge of how the servers are running the content?

    We can guess what’s going on, but we really don’t know how the servers are running, we can only see how it’s going on client side.

    Rare is aware of how their servers and code work (or in many cases doesn’t).

    Yes, it’s super frustrating on our ends, and we all can’t see into how they are running.

    But suggesting to rare how they should run their server infrastructure with only seeing 50% of the problem, doesn’t really help.

  • EGGamer13
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    @vill9222 For their servers and services they use Microsoft Azure Playfab servers. And while I don't know the configuration that the servers have, they're very powerful, even tho we could see that they aren't. If we stop a bit and start thinking about what the servers handle, we can see that they handle TONS and TONS of stuff. They're powerful, for other games, these servers would be overkill, but, are these servers powerful enough for this game? Yes, Rare could scale them to make them more powerful, but until now, they didn't have too much revenue, but now we have the emporium, so let's cross our fingers so that Rare upgrades their servers this year, or at least starts improving their code in order to run more smoothly.

    Aside from the servers, they use Unreal Engine 4.10. While Unreal is very powerful, in my opinion, that version of the engine is somewhat old. And because they customized a lot the engine, they can't upgrade, because otherwise, things would break. But, I think that they should upgrade. Yes, it will cost some time to upgrade and fix and upgrade all the necessary code, but I think it will be better for us, and most importantly, for them. In their talks, they've said several times that as they are stuck in that version, they're losing some key features that would help them. They work around and get a fix for that, but it would be much much better if they could upgrade.

    As you said @Vill9222, we only know 50% of how the game and Rare runs. I can suggest them to upgrade servers, to upgrade the engine, to optimize their code. But I don't know their actual income, I don't know how much they're paying for the servers, I don't know how stressed the servers go, I don't know how much it would break if they upgrade the engine. All of this would take a lot of time and money for them, but, I think if they start working on it now, even if it takes for the 6 months to get it right, we don't mind if the game runs a lot smoother.

  • DrizKillz
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    @trik68 You'd garner more traction & support if you post this in the regular forums and not insiders.

  • StillVill
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    @eggamer13 said in Alright we have an issue in our hands!:

    @vill9222 For their servers and services they use Microsoft Azure Playfab servers. And while I don't know the configuration that the servers have, they're very powerful, even tho we could see that they aren't. If we stop a bit and start thinking about what the servers handle, we can see that they handle TONS and TONS of stuff. They're powerful, for other games, these servers would be overkill, but, are these servers powerful enough for this game? Yes, Rare could scale them to make them more powerful, but until now, they didn't have too much revenue, but now we have the emporium, so let's cross our fingers so that Rare upgrades their servers this year, or at least starts improving their code in order to run more smoothly.

    we know what servers they use

    Aside from the servers, they use Unreal Engine 4.10. While Unreal is very powerful, in my opinion, that version of the engine is somewhat old. And because they customized a lot the engine, they can't upgrade, because otherwise, things would break. But, I think that they should upgrade. Yes, it will cost some time to upgrade and fix and upgrade all the necessary code, but I think it will be better for us, and most importantly, for them. In their talks, they've said several times that as they are stuck in that version, they're losing some key features that would help them. They work around and get a fix for that, but it would be much much better if they could upgrade.

    we know what engine they use

    As you said @Vill9222, we only know 50% of how the game and Rare runs. I can suggest them to upgrade servers, to upgrade the engine, to optimize their code. But I don't know their actual income, I don't know how much they're paying for the servers, I don't know how stressed the servers go, I don't know how much it would break if they upgrade the engine. All of this would take a lot of time and money for them, but, I think if they start working on it now, even if it takes for the 6 months to get it right, we don't mind if the game runs a lot smoother.

    and we don't know on how anything outside of that unfortunately.

    i can guarantee you, they are already working on stability improvements, private servers, and optimizing the game for everyone. They have their jobs, they are doing it, (sometimes well, sometimes they forget portable ammo crates)

    besides us having concern, there's not much of a reason for the entire post, let alone it being in insiders.

  • trik68
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    @eggamer13 Ok I agree with you one hundred percent that I rather have things and have servers fixed but I have been begging for better servers even before launch. I know for sure they are making a ton of money from whales/collectors.

    I believe rare is not willing to upgrade servers that is why I say remove stuff. After tho they continue adding new things or rotate old stuff.

  • trik68
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    @barnabas-seadog lol dude I have a m.2 ssd, gtx 1080, i7 8700k so literally I have friends who have the same issues with rtx 2080 ti's

  • trik68
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    @sicrobite yeah I was literally about to add the bugs to the forum you posted and I thought the same thing. The z axis should be adjusted first off and build from there

  • trik68
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    @d3adst1ck "That has nothing to do with lag. It's a number in a math formula. Changing the number doesn't magically create lag."

    Dude obviously you do not know how the engine works. The waves move the boat and depending on the size of the waves then the engine has to calculate more. The game is based on movement of physics. Sooooo if waves are bigger more textures have to be added to ripple and calculations to the next wave next to it. After that it has to read how it hits the boat. After that it has to read and tell how high to move a boat, etc, etc. As you can see it creates lag. Lag gets worse when two boats are rubbing like how I posted about other bugs in the game.

  • LucianSanchez82
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    @vill9222 said in Alright we have an issue in our hands!:

    does anyone here know the engine capabilities, worked on programming of the game, knowledge of how the servers are running the content?

    We can guess what’s going on, but we really don’t know how the servers are running, we can only see how it’s going on client side.

    Rare is aware of how their servers and code work (or in many cases doesn’t).

    Yes, it’s super frustrating on our ends, and we all can’t see into how they are running.

    But suggesting to rare how they should run their server infrastructure with only seeing 50% of the problem, doesn’t really help.

    This is the only sensible reply on this thread. We simply don't know enough about the inner workings of the game to judge how Rare should be managing it. Everyone's expereince of the game also varies a lot. I play on an OG Xbox One, and other than slower (though I think slightly improved with the last update) load times and respawns, I don't actually see half the issues that I see touted on these forums. Does that mean the issues and bugs aren't there? Of course not, but that's also not taking in to account the many other variables that affect online gaming.

    Bottom line is, no one but Rare is in a position to see what can be improved in terms of their code or infrastructure. Simply shouting for better servers or re-writing of code isn't actually answering anything.

  • Action Yojimbo
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    @trik68 I solo most of the time I don't experience these issues is it a group thing?

  • D3ADST1CK
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    @trik68 said in Alright we have an issue in our hands!:

    @d3adst1ck "That has nothing to do with lag. It's a number in a math formula. Changing the number doesn't magically create lag."

    Dude obviously you do not know how the engine works. The waves move the boat and depending on the size of the waves then the engine has to calculate more. The game is based on movement of physics. Sooooo if waves are bigger more textures have to be added to ripple and calculations to the next wave next to it. After that it has to read how it hits the boat. After that it has to read and tell how high to move a boat, etc, etc. As you can see it creates lag. Lag gets worse when two boats are rubbing like how I posted about other bugs in the game.

    That's not how it works. How small or big the waves are does not create more or less calculation. It should be linear. You can use 4 points of reference to figure out pitch and yaw of the boat on a wave. Also, textures are not "added" to the waves. This is done through shaders on your hardware, not on the server and has zero effect on lag.

    Player proximity, or as you call it "two ships rubbing together" has more effect on lag because the server needs to communicate position updates to every other player. The closer players are together, the more actions they are doing, the more updates need to be sent. Player movement, if they are on a ship, is relative to the ship (hence why players are weighted to the deck instead of flying all over) in order to simplify this movement somewhat. If ships collide, they are going to be changing position more frequently. A lot of this movement is smoothed out by your client in between receiving update data (which is why your ship can fly/sink if you get disconnected or intense lag - this is the local compensation moving your boat based on last known input). Lag is going to be more dependent on how much data is going in and out of the server, and how many actions are queued up on the server end, than a math formula for figuring out Z position of a wave.

  • trik68
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    @d3adst1ck "Lag is going to be more dependent on how much data is going in and out of the server, and how many actions are queued up on the server end, than a math formula for figuring out Z position of a wave."

    exactly

  • trik68
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    @action-yojimbo These issues happen mostly in arena. They can also happen in adventure but not as much. I play primarily galleys but I've seen it at least one of these bugs every match I play in. I can send the sword lunge bug if you wanna see it. I can also send clips of me missing or calulating the lag someone has.

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