Alliance system doesnt work

  • I feel the Alliance system is pointless. Every alliance I've ever entered into has resulted in me helping someone gather loot, beat a skeleton fort etc. just to be betrayed and sunk before we turn in.

    There are many reasons for this happening but whatever the reasons they are all unnecessary, because it just should not be possible to cause pvp damage to your own team let alone sink their ship... its just dumb. turn off PVP for alliances and put a cooldown on cancelling / opting out of them for god sake.
    If you cant trust your team mates, whats the point in calling it a team at all.

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  • @radres1stant alliances are meant to be unstable and unreliable. Consider it a lesson learned.

    PvP belongs in the game, this should never ever change.

  • @radres1stant they are not your team. It is a group of pirates that HOPE the other ship wont backstab them. But Pirates backstab and steal, welcome to the sea of thieves.

  • PVP would still be there, nothing would change.
    However it would ensure that during an alliance, should new people join your crew, the new players dont instinctively attack the friendly ship, ruining the whole alliance for everybody just because they couldnt tell they were teaming up.

    Also why dont alliances automatically cancel when friendly ships / crews attack eachother?

  • @radres1stant because alliances are meant to be unstable. This was designed on purpose.

  • Alliances work out or they don't.

    Maybe it was something that you said? Or maybe they were just jerks? But the problem isn't the Alliance System. It's people.

    If people are being cool then be cool back. If people are being jerks then be a jerk back. Apparently that simple concept is too difficult for some people to grasp?

  • @captain-coel But the problem is they are SO unstable, they are pointless. It makes no logical sense.

    Its almost a pointless mechanic because all it does it share profits. you may as well just verbally agree to help eachother and not bother with the alliance system.

    Its essentially broken. you can betray your alliance, go off on your own and do something else while everything you turn in shares gold with the crew on the other side of the map that you are practically mortal enimies with. it just seems illogical, why not have it cancel automatically when damage is taken?

    Also "consider it a lesson learned" - I have learned that the sea of thieves community is made up of trolls and griefers. also that the alliance system doesnt work haha

    ah well it is what it is i suppose, if people like it the way it is then thats that

  • @viperishemu2992 thats fair but totally missing the point.

    The point is an alliance isnt worth the notice that appears on screen about it because it means nothing beyond the fact that 2 ships are sharing the same flag.

    It serves very well as a tool for people to trick trusting players for not much gain other than a laugh. thats about it. I understand the idea behind it being intentionally unstable, but because there are no changes to player interactions at all, it doesnt mean any thing

  • @radres1stant said in Alliance system doesnt work:

    @viperishemu2992 thats fair but totally missing the point.

    The point is an alliance isnt worth the notice that appears on screen about it because it means nothing beyond the fact that 2 ships are sharing the same flag.

    It serves very well as a tool for people to trick trusting players for not much gain other than a laugh. thats about it. I understand the idea behind it being intentionally unstable, but because there are no changes to player interactions at all, it doesnt mean any thing

    Maybe an increase of Loot loot value would encourage more people not to break alliances as often? But the fact is that a lot of people are jerks and think it's funny and clever to "dis" you. So unless breaking an alliance became impossible (or very hard) then the kind of thing that you are talking about will always continue to happen.

  • @radres1stant

    I agree with you. Funny how the people aren’t actually trying to share their opinions with you but immediately shut you down and say deal with it. I guess your just another complainer to them. There is something wrong with the Alliance system and your pointing this out. Just as why is there an Arena for PVP but PVP is still allowed in adventure mode. Why is cross play optional for Arena but not for Adventure? Why isn’t there an option to be defensive and only deal with NPC enemies and play the adventure part of the game for those that aren’t good at PVP/griefers. People’s only argument for this is, it’s a pirate game. But even ROCKSTAR red dead has eventually come out with something that helps the players that wanted to focus primarily on the story of the game for online. Sorry got off topic there. It’s sad how you can only have a fighting chance on this game when you play with people you actually know and can’t even trust people you meet.

  • @viperishemu2992

    The fact you feel the need to insult him without giving a valid statement shows the toxicity in this game even more.

  • @xx-rose-goid-xx Thanks for the support :) I understand peoples opinions, after all I totally get that flat out adding some kind of defensive mode or passive mode could ruin the nature of the game and SOT is alot of fun the way it is but, same as you, I feel Rare could be doing more to cater to solo players and players who prefer co-op WITHOUT sacrificing the core of the game.

    Red dead is a great example. And I do unfortunately think there is a lot of toxicity in the community for some reason. its a shame cus the games pretty epic

  • @radres1stant sagte in Alliance system doesnt work:

    I feel the Alliance system is pointless. Every alliance I've ever entered into has resulted in me helping someone gather loot, beat a skeleton fort etc. just to be betrayed and sunk before we turn in.

    +1

    There are many reasons for this happening but whatever the reasons they are all unnecessary, because it just should not be possible to cause pvp damage to your own team let alone sink their ship... its just dumb. turn off PVP for alliances and put a cooldown on cancelling / opting out of them for god sake.
    If you cant trust your team mates, whats the point in calling it a team at all.

    Alliance members are not crew members. Eventhough I dislike the "alliances are meant to be unreliable" argument, I have to say that the option should be there to betray your alliance.

    I feel like SoT lacks consequence for this sort of action which is why nobody trusts alliance members or anybody outside of their crew.

  • @belyaevfox I can agree with that. Im not a sea of thieves passivist, the PVP is an important part of the game but it'd be nice if there was a little more to encourage co-op play too

  • The alliance mechanic is perfect, IMO, because it does exactly what it's intended to do - it facilitates social interactions - both good and bad. Like was said, it's people that are the issue, but even then they're still playing the game how they want, and perfectly within the rules of the game.

    A stable alliance provides huge long-term gains for both parties, but due to how easy it is to trick and betray (not to mention how much more fun it can seem to many a pirate), it lures greedy, short-sighted pirates into a get-rich-quick scheme with immediate short-term gains. Perhaps they don't have time to wait (or don't want to) for you to get more, so they figure that stealing from you is a good way to maximize their profit margins?

    Betrayal is not without risks though - it's a high-risk, high-reward scenario; you essentially get double, or nothing. That's why they'll pretend to be your friend and stab you in the back. Once they do though, that's it - no more potential gain for them.

    A good rule of thumb is this: trust NOBODY fully except for your own crew.

    Always have your head on a swivel. If you're in an alliance and about to turn in, check to see if other allies are nearby - if they are, don't turn in. If they are true allies, they'll respect your space. Use your map table to spy on them, as they are surely already doing with you, since the alliance mechanics allows for it. If something seems fishy or too good to be true, it probably is.

    Learn your allies names too - doing so will help prevent 3rd party infiltrators from destabilizing a perfectly good alliance, if you have 1.

    I hate to say it, but your ignorance caused your own defeat, not the mechanics of the game, so don't ask a game to change what it is at its core to accommodate your shortcomings and inability to play the game effectively. You sink or swim; you got sunk - now start swimming.

  • @radres1stant They aren't that unstable in my experiences, I will share how I make stable alliances that don't backstab me. 1) kill everyone on sight pretty much. (or ignore everyone and don't bother with alliances, if you don't want to pvp I wouldn't mess with alliances and instead just avoid others) 2). If you best someone that is fairly new to the game or that isn't that good at pvp and didn't stand a chance and you feel bad about it, spare them and make an alliance. I am never backstabbed by these people. I also don't really interact with the alliances, to me they are literally just a ship that I cant attack and that makes me money . I think the reason I am not backstabbed is because they realize that they stand literally no chance if they were to backstab me, and when the most we really do is just help eachother if we see eachother being attacked its hard to betray me since im always on the lookout.

  • @jofjjay Great power maneuver, en? I like it. Subtle subjugation at its finest! 😈

  • @galactic-geek so what your saying is:
    Not in an alliance = Dont trust
    In an alliance = Dont trust

    @radres1stant said in Alliance system doesnt work:

    @belyaevfox I can agree with that. Im not a sea of thieves passivist, the PVP is an important part of the game but it'd be nice if there was a little more to encourage co-op play too

    @radres1stant said in Alliance system doesnt work:

    @xx-rose-goid-xx Thanks for the support :) I understand peoples opinions, after all I totally get that flat out adding some kind of defensive mode or passive mode could ruin the nature of the game and SOT is alot of fun the way it is but, same as you, I feel Rare could be doing more to cater to solo players and players who prefer co-op WITHOUT sacrificing the core of the game.

    Red dead is a great example. And I do unfortunately think there is a lot of toxicity in the community for some reason. its a shame cus the games pretty epic

    Not asking the game to change its core mechanics btw

  • System's fine as it is.

    It's meant to allow for a peaceful alternative, if you are so inclined. The alliances were designed to be unreliable, and people like it that way. If you don't like alliances, don't make alliances. You have the choice to do whatever you want in this game when it comes to stealing, killing, and backstabbing.

    Remember, a pirate is free. Don't like it? Join the GMU.

  • @xx-rose-goid-xx if you want opinions here.

    Alliances are perfect the way they are. I've had some awesome experiences and terrible experiences with alliances.

    Mostly I use it to track the other boats on a server. If you aren't cashing out I'm gonna come see how much loot you have.

    Another opinion. If alliances are failing for you because you are getting betrayed, you need to get better. Its the hard truth.

    Sincerely,
    That alliance member sinking you.

  • @radres1stant
    Hello Sir , this game is a Tool that allows to make Adventures with many outcomes , so do Alliances . Many Alliances do end in betrayal and slaughter but i can tell you about many Alliances i have formed during and long before The Fortress of the Damned update …

    i always approach Pirates in the way i am, i offer an Alliance ,promise them to play loyal and prove that by apoligizing if i harm them in the sometimes chaotic melee fights that can occur...i also keep my ears and eyes open to skeletons that shoot one or two cannonballs..When that happen i go to my Alliance Friends ship and repair it , and i let them know...This way you enhance the trust between both crews ...When we finally get the vault open we ask what they want and we tell them what we want , mostly a comprimise is quickly found and we both load up our ship …

    Mostly that Alliance stays on untill one crew turns towards their hammock… Really , we are Pirates but also people , i can sense distrust in almost every Pirate i come across . But i try to take it away by talking , and proving i'm loyal to those words...In this game i also have a benefit , a curse for every other Multiplayer game but in this game a true trait namely : an accent.

    i don't speak English in a perfect way , far from it and that too helps into gaining trust from people…

    If you want an Alliance to work then prove that you stick out yer hand first and that your words have a meaning to yourself...i can almost immedaitly hear if a Pirate means it with the Alliance or pretends to be honest. In the beginning , i can feel they will never keep their word but then my Crew's Personality and mine can turn an opinion during a Skeleton fortress fight…

    And yes , we do get doublecrossed sometimes ...And that's fair , after all ,you make an Alliance with persons that want to be Pirates and act like Pirates ...If they don't utter words that cut your Heart then you must see it as a part of the game and nothing personal...

  • @radres1stant said in Alliance system doesnt work:

    I feel the Alliance system is pointless. Every alliance I've ever entered into has resulted in me helping someone gather loot, beat a skeleton fort etc. just to be betrayed and sunk before we turn in.

    There are many reasons for this happening but whatever the reasons they are all unnecessary, because it just should not be possible to cause pvp damage to your own team let alone sink their ship... its just dumb. turn off PVP for alliances and put a cooldown on cancelling / opting out of them for god sake.
    If you cant trust your team mates, whats the point in calling it a team at all.

    Alliances work fine in their current form. For example; I've met another player on an island, we had some good comms and built up camaraderie and decide to form an alliance to share loot. This worked perfectly and we both had a rare old time!

    No-one forces us into an alliance, we choose based on our own ability to make a decision on whether we trust the other party enough to form said alliance. If we have any doubts, the answer is simple, don't alliance. Just because alliances may not be working for you, this doesn't mean they are pointless or should be removed, as there's probably just as many examples of them working for other people.

    With all that said, even in any circumstances, whether allianced or not, I'd still remain aware at all times!

  • That is all correctly how it suppose to work.
    Even among pirates, just because you 'Helped" doesnt mean all isnt gonna come crashing down unless you build some deep respect.

    They even said it in there videos about forming alliances but "watch out"

  • Many betray you because they feel that alliances are OP. For those who feel alliances are a mistake in the game, breaking them is the only thing that makes them bearable. They are essentially magically increasing loot value in order to encourage you to hold hands with every possible crew on the server. Lets not make it worse by forcing them. Tools not rules.

  • @omnipotence13

    lol I'm trying to imagine being mad about players making more money by working together than brainlessly aggroing everything they see.

  • Its a major reason Legendary status is a joke

  • @omnipotence13 said in Alliance system doesnt work:

    Its a major reason Legendary status is a joke

    Have you considered that Pirate Legend only means that they've got 50 faction with 3 companies?

  • @radres1stant usually I assert myself as the dominant player by killing them first

  • @radres1stant
    We are not going to agree on this, since I think the alliances are working as intended and working well. Not to mention only a small percentage of the alliances I have been in have ended in betrayal.

    I will say there are some rules to a safe alliance. The safest alliance is one where you both go your own ways and just get a portion of each others loot. If you must work as a squadron, than no member of the alliance gets on the other's ship. When working at an island, make sure to anchor on the opposite side from the other ship. Constantly have someone check to make sure a member of the other crew is not stowing away on your ship, or hiding explosives nearby. And for the love of.god....do not keep explosives on your ship when you are working the same island as another crew.

    Beyond that there is a balance reason alliances can not be chamges as you want. In am alliance, two crews have a major advantage over a single crew. The only offset to this advantage is that if the single crew can create chaos, the members of alliance end up damaging each others ships or killing each other. If you give the alliance members invulnerability to each other, or even an easy way to tell who is in their alliance, it takes away to only advantage the single crew has.

  • @radres1stant

    I feel the Alliance system is pointless.

    Then don't use it.

    because it just should not be possible to cause pvp damage to your own team let alone sink their ship... its just dumb.

    This game is a fantasy pirate experience... betrayal is part of that fantasy... so it's not dumb.

    But it does hurt. ;_;

    Btw, turning off PvP in this game is not an option... Rare have personally shot this idea, this very concept down, multiple times... A sentiment i fully agree with, PvP is essential to the fantasy pirate experience, after all. :3

    It's a waste of time to pursue that train of thought, though, keep that in mind for future posts. ;)

  • oh god
    you make my brain hurt

  • @radres1stant you are right. The alliances don't work THE WAY YOU WANT.

  • @radres1stant

    @radres1stant said in Alliance system doesnt work:

    @galactic-geek so what your saying is:
    Not in an alliance = Dont trust
    In an alliance = Dont trust

    I mean that pretty much summarizes it. Don't trust anyone unless you know them irl/have a actual reason to trust them (some fancy flag in the crow's nest is not a good reason to trust people btw) I would advise getting good at the game (no idea if you are good, im assuming you aren't, sorry if you are actually good at the game [I mean actually good, not just "Athena 10", like legitimately good, not good at just the PVE side of the game]) and work towards making it so that your alliances either a) feel that attacking you would end in their demise (Works the best in my experiences) or b) feel that attacking you and betraying you will actually hurt how much money and the like they gain. I would personally not make an alliance and then find out if the person is fairly trustworthy (you can tell, new players tend to be fairly trustworthy in my experiences) but instead find if someone is trustworthy (or harmless) and then make an alliance. And really just never let your guard down, even if you trust them a lot, have played with them a lot, you should be able to trust them but don't let your guard down, its not just them you have to worry about, but also that PL Athena 10 Legendary Sea Dog galleon on the horizon. Hopefully this will help you, Good Luck!

  • @radres1stant Oh, you can choose to trust, and even take steps to strengthen that bond - just understand that it's never without risk.

  • I agree insofar that I would welcome harsher consequences for betraying alliances since people like to indulge in griefing and "being a pirate" (at least what meaning they make up for it). After some time, this seems the only purpose left in this game and that could be taken as pointing to some more problems elsewhere, but I am not getting paid for solutions, so: "ce la vie".

    @jofjjay said in Alliance system doesnt work:

    @radres1stant

    @radres1stant said in Alliance system doesnt work:

    @galactic-geek so what your saying is:
    Not in an alliance = Dont trust
    In an alliance = Dont trust

    I mean that pretty much summarizes it. Don't trust anyone unless you know them irl/have a actual reason to trust them (some fancy flag in the crow's nest is not a good reason to trust people btw) I would advise getting good at the game (no idea if you are good, im assuming you aren't, sorry if you are actually good at the game [I mean actually good, not just "Athena 10", like legitimately good, not good at just the PVE side of the game]) and work towards making it so that your alliances either a) feel that attacking you would end in their demise (Works the best in my experiences) or b) feel that attacking you and betraying you will actually hurt how much money and the like they gain. I would personally not make an alliance and then find out if the person is fairly trustworthy (you can tell, new players tend to be fairly trustworthy in my experiences) but instead find if someone is trustworthy (or harmless) and then make an alliance. And really just never let your guard down, even if you trust them a lot, have played with them a lot, you should be able to trust them but don't let your guard down, its not just them you have to worry about, but also that PL Athena 10 Legendary Sea Dog galleon on the horizon. Hopefully this will help you, Good Luck!

    This is one of the few answers that give me hope. All too often people simply repeat phrases of certain streamers brainlessly. Yes, I look at all you wonderful privateers 😉 .

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