How to stop the grieving and toxicity

  • Oneuglymugly

    Hello all,
    I am a someone who used to play SoT when it first came out. I loved it, but then as my friends stopped playing I did too. I absolutely love the atmosphere and play style of this game. When I first started I had 4 friends who played with me and we usually had 2 or more out of the 5 of us in a group. This made for good playing, riding around in a Galleon and tearing through the seas... but we got tired of it due to the lack of content and slowly my friends fell off. I, however, am perfectly content just sailing my little Sloop across the open ocean while playing my hurdy-gurdy, and so I kept playing. Then I continuously ran into a problem- grieving, toxic players ruthlessly massacring me over and over and over and over until... I stopped playing. That was many months ago, and just two weeks ago I started playing again. I watched a few videos about the new changes to the game and I was SO EXCITED to get back into it. I talked a few new friends into getting it and a few old friends into reinstalling it. And after two weeks of playing I have this to say:

    This game is entirely tailored to large groups.

    If you have a single person in a Sloop you stand almost no chance of amassing any loot and successfully selling it at an outpost. If a Brigantine or Galleon sees a Sloop on the water- that's free loot! You die. And you die. and you die. Contrarily if you are in a Galleon with 3 of your friends you are a force to be reckoned with. It is insanely easy to complete 5-10 quests and turn in the loot. In two weeks of playing quite often, when my friends joined me on the Galleon, we were only raided 3 times. Let me repeat that: THREE TIMES. This is because when a Brigantine sees a Galleon, they leave it alone. When a Sloop sees a Galleon, they drop all their loot into the ocean and run like hell! When two Galleons meet, you wave to each other and laugh as you both go to turn in your $15,000 spoils of war, happy and content to leave the other alone. Oh, but when I play by myself in my little Sloop, I get destroyed and robbed every single time.

    My point is simple, the game is called Sea of THIEVES and stealing, cheating, and finagling your way into someone else's hard earned loot is just part of the game. That does not mean, however, that a group of 4 people gets to rein supreme and anyone below them must forfeit all their loot, it's just pathetic. There is no way to get better gear or weapons. There is no way to make your ship stronger. There are no safe zones (I know this was by design, and I agree- keep reading). Unless you are a double-gun wielding madman psychopath with the fastest scroll wheel in the west you lose any conflict in which you are outnumbered. So what can be done to fix this? I think its simple.

    We are PIRATES right? We say "To hell with the rules!" and follow our own code! But... wait... what rules are we saying "to hell with" exactly? This game has no structure behind it. There is no government, world order, established law, or even rival gang of pirates to speak of. I understand that this was intentional, but I think it was wrong to do so. Let me persuade you:

    You are a two man team on a Sloop. You and your friend have just spent an hour and a half getting loot, completing missions, and pillaging all the bounty the seas had to offer. In your travels you ran into a Galleon, but you are smarter than the average bear and you turned to sail against the wind and outran her. You fought with a Brigantine and fended well, using special cannonballs to slow them, and drop their anchor. Again, you outran them. Now you have spent 20 minutes going far out of the way to an outpost you know nobody is at. You are ready to turn that loot in. As you pull into the dock you see a mast appear behind a rock not far off in the distance. As the ship turns you see the single mast split into 3, and you know a Galleon has caught your scent. You and your friend try desperately to dock your row boat full of loot back onto the Sloop and high-tail it out of there, but they have the wind with them and are approaching too quickly.
    "D@mmit!" your friend yells, "run to the (Insert name of organization here) and buy protection from the captain!"
    You do as asked, and you run over to the building that looks a little more organized than the rest. There is a man there in a uniform only mildly dirty and you pay him $2,500 gold for his protection at this outpost. But he is a greedy man, and that only buys his protection for a short time.
    Running back to your ship, you can see the Galleon is upon you now, just reaching accurate cannon range. They freeze, and do not shoot. For they see a green symbol hanging above your ship, letting them know you are under the protection of the captain of (Insert organization name here). They know that if they shoot you, which they can, they will incur a bounty. They know that if they steal your loot- which is also marked with a green symbol- they will also incur a bounty (or some penalty, maybe they only get a portion of the loot and the original party gets the other portion). They decide the repercussions are not worth it for your measly few chests and skulls, and leave the outpost to find new prey.

    Are you convinced yet? Oh, well, let me expound a little. This organization, whatever it may be will provide protection at outposts, for a cost. One can talk to this captain fellow and purchase his protection for a short time, or perhaps curry favor with him (as another faction in the game) and instead of a monetary reward receive protection in any outpost in which this organization has a foothold. Some outposts are known for their ruthlessness, and the organization does not go there. Or maybe it is the opposite, and this bloody organization of cutthroat pirates are so deadly that no one dares stand against them on the few outposts they inhabit. Whatever it may be- PROTECTION UPON ARRIVAL. I know that it is important for the games play-value to make it so that getting your precious loot to an outpost is terrifying and intense, and this system preserves that entirely, only allowing players to become "safe" once they have both docked their boat at the outpost and purchased protection. This organization could add A TON of new content to the game as well:
    --It would be interesting to be able to purchase an 'escort' of sorts. Imagine purchasing ships (probably only Sloops) from this organization which travel with you and fight with you, but they only lend their services to those they know cannot betray them once on the open waters and so Galleons cannot purchase an escort. For example, a Galleon sees a Sloop on the coast of an island in passing, they turn to fight them and notice a second Sloop marked with the colors of the organization. They do not care; they rein down cannon fire on the both of them, getting loot from the players and something from the hired Sloop as well.
    --A player has made it their mission to kill ships under the protection of the organization and as a result has incurred a huge bounty. The organization sends ships after them (Brigantines and Galleons) to try and stop this notorious Pirate. Now you, as the player, have to worry about random ship encounters, and if you are good enough you can profit off of them.
    --This organization was hired to ship materials from one outpost to another, and so now you can occasionally find anywhere from one to three Galleons under control of the organization transporting cargo across the seas. You can take these ships down if you are skilled enough, and if you are masterful enough to leave no one alive they'll never know it was you and cannot put a bounty on your head! In the rarest of occasions you can see the organization battling the new Skeleton Ships too!

    This stuff writes itself Rare, I mean honestly... To end my rant and get back to the heart of the problem- this game is almost unplayable without a group. You need to do something about it. I have put a lot of thought into this solution, and after reading over 50 of the other "Feedback + Suggestions" posts I think this not only solves my problem, but almost everyone's problems. You would have: better support for single and duo parties, a new faction with which players can curry favor and earn rewards, protection from grieving @sshats that is not free but earned, the ability to add content and drama into the world, a structure in place which can be used as a reference point to determine who the absolute best pirate is. This last point is especially unique because right now there is nothing for us to be evil against! In a sea where there are no rules, being a lawless pirate means nothing. Give us something to judge ourselves off of. Whether it be a notorious gang of swashbuckling pirates, a trading company attempting to establish a monopoly, a government stretched too thin attempting to maintain order- whatever! Something that can show us who the real b@dass pirates in the game actually are, while simultaneously helping out the little guy.

    Thanks for reading, it means a lot
    -A dirty pirate

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  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @oneuglymugly quite a funny idea, though I don't think it is needed. The maneuverability of the sloop is all you need.

    Be aware and just sail circles around the larger crews or guide them to a new target.

    My advice:

    1. Never be caught with the anchor down. The times that dropping the sails and taking off saved my ship is insane.
    2. Try to avoid being boarded, guard those ladders.
    3. Shallow and rocky waters are your friend
    4. Your ship is more sturdy than you might believe.
    5. Enjoy your trip
  • HobbyGG4017
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    By the skill of the average player, i can assure you that solo killing a whole galleon, or especially as a duo sloop, is realatively easy. I think you just need to improve your sailing/decisionmaking/PvP skills.
    Most Galleons dont chase sloops for to long, since the chase against a good sloop is nearly endless and way to time-consuming when u want to get booty. Additionally, the loot you get from sloops is at best mediocre since most players are smart enough to sell regularly and dont hoard to much loot.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder
    1. Use cursed cannonballs
    2. Turn in loot frequently
    3. Sail behind opposing ships laterally (where they can't shoot or ram you)

    The sloop may not be the fastest or most powerful, or have a large crew, but it's:
    A) the easiest to use;
    B) the most manueverable;
    C) the slowest to sink.

    IMO, @Oneuglymugly, you just need to learn how to be a better pirate. Being on a sloop is harder, but not impossible, as your post would wrongfully suggest.

  • KattTruewalker
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @oneuglymugly

    I can see that you've given a great deal of thought to your idea and one thing strikes me, that it would be a fun thing for players to do, to offer protection to ships docking at an outpost - I'm sure there are probably crews who've done this, I know we've sailed to the rescue of smaller crews on occasion.

    Sailing duo or solo is a challenge, but there are a great many pirates who prefer this mode, myself included. The sloop is my favourite ship and a duo my preferred size of crew. Why might this be, you ask, with the risk of being chased, sunk and looted? Because of the challenge, I reply, not only the challenge but the sheer joy of sailing a ship with great maneuverability and the intimacy of the whole experience.

    I could regale you with tales of how we've used Thieves Haven to outwit galleon/brig crews chasing us @eredhar ;) or how we fled across the seas the other night, from a galleon bearing a Reaper's Mark and determined to see us at the bottom of the ocean and yes, we outwitted them too. The sloop will outrun them going into a headwind, it will slip through shallow waters in between islands, it can hide and maneuver successfully around obstacles.

    Choosing this way to play requires added attention, frequent turn ins, selecting where and how you place your ship when going ashore, knowing it's strengths and weaknesses, but the adventures you have are priceless in comparison.

    In fact you could sum up Sea of Thieves by saying it's the freedom of the game which is it's true strength, that you're reliant on your own skill and choices rather than the game imposing artificial 'rules' or mechanics or giving you skill levels, it's us vs the seas and our choices alone that often make the difference. And yes, I've been sunk, looted, murdered too.

  • x5h3ar3rx
    Master
    Insider

    @oneuglymugly I 100% disagree with you.. I have played solo sloop since launch and I can assure you it's not difficult at all!! It is only more time consuming which is perfectly fine as I choose to play on hardmode "solo sloop" My biggest weapon is my sailing, I can out sail galleons and brigs with ease.. my biggest fear is actually a duo sloop, deadliest ship in the game IMO!

    It's honestly a case of get gud! Learn to be always 1 step ahead of your opponents!

    I'm reading post after post about solo play is impossible or blah blah If you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen.. there is open crews and discord and apps to meet like minded people!

    I hope you take time to grow and continue to solo sloop as people who solo sloop are my sloop brothers/sisters 😁 When you play solo just remember EVERYTHING is going to take longer and everything needs planning.. be safe out there!!

  • Joe Krakatoa
    Commander
    Insider

    Consider sailing solo in a brigantine instead of a sloop.
    Traverse the entire map faster. Less tedium sailing upwind. Outrun anything.

    Other solo sloopers are more likely to avoid a brigantine.

  • ENF0RCER
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @oneuglymugly Well i must say you have a long and detialed post there. I just wanted to give you a different view about some of assumption. Some things i would like to address about your arguments to get you think about and change your point of veiw.

    Frist off This game initially designed as a Co-Op game they added the sloop after feedback from the player base who wanted to play solo.

    Second of course a Larger Crew is going to have an advantage in a Stright fight agianst 1 player. They have the Numbers advantage. Now imagine we also had stats. Then that means it only requires 1 player with higher stats then you to beat you. If they had 4 players thats 4 chance of at least 1 player having higher stats the you let alone the rest of the crew.

    If stats were applied to the ship instead of the players this would have little effect on for you as all they would have to do is board you and spwan kill you till they etheir strip your ship clean or force you to scuttle. Where as it would be far more difficult for you to sink there ship if your weapon stat was lower then ther hull stat. Also it wouldn't matter how high your weapon stat is if they can simply stop you from firing.

    As a solo player you simply can't use the same tatics and stratergies as if you you were on a Galleon Crew. You need to develop a whole new set of skillz.

    You stated that you understand that this is a game about stealing from other players and you except that. Then i ask you why not as a solo player would you not go out and find a Gally pack full of loot and steal from them? Have you ever even attempted this? I'll give you a tip, you don't require the use of sloop at all.

    It may take you a bit to learn and you will fail alot at frist, but i assure you the frist time you pull it off it feels amazing.

    Lastly you call for a type of bounty system. One that is regulated and excuted buy the game itself. Many players have ask for one form of bounty system or another and i genuinely support these idea's but a bounty system were the AI is sent to take out the players i find unfeasable as the current state of A.I. in the game is very simple. So a bounty could easily be averted.

  • MarsMayflower
    Captain
    Insider

    I make tons of cash on my solo sloop. and I also sink sometimes. I consider myself a decent player but by no means the best. am I just lucky or do I play way too much?

  • Wajuwanmekill
    Marauder
    Insider

    There can only be one king of pirates

  • WDW1011971
    Marauder
    Insider

    Why even allow solo or say it's for 1 to x amount of players if it's designed to be co-op? If it was designed for co-op it should be advertised as 2 to x players instead of saying its also designed for 1 player.

  • Captain Pyrite
    Marauder

    I read like the first sentence in your post but I solo play all the time and it's one of my most favorite things to do even if playing with friends can be fun as well. I am an A10 PL, yes it was a challenge but wasn't impossible. This game caters to all players, the solo experience can just be a little hardcore. This is a sandbox game with so many different tools at our disposal to dispatch all the threats laid out before us. If your having issues, practice, take more risks, don't blame the game because the solo sloop experience is amazing.

  • RTCoaster1
    Marauder
    Insider

    Umm...I been solo slooping for a while now and I've been only taken out (with loot) a few times and I have never came across a problem with being chase down by a Galleon only wanting my loot almost every time they spot a sloop. Most of the time I play (from experience) other ships will mind their own business, even when doing the fort, I've seen bigger ships out in the distance just having no care in the world. Also too, most of the servers are VERY quite. So you may have a couple of bad experiences (from what I'm reading and want to fix this), but that doesn't mean requesting to put in a protection for you to turn in something that you can obtain again and again and again. Having this "organization" will make the SOT more like Sea of Witness Protection. But if you or a crew-mate in a sloop does see a ship coming, you either run or you use all the might you can to stop them, or cover more ground to get them off of you. Sea of Thieves is somewhat about grieving and pirates will do anything to get loot, regardless of how big or small your crew is.

  • RTCoaster1
    Marauder
    Insider

    @wdw1011971 I'm going to counter argument this, some people would rather just go out their alone in the high seas and take on what is there to offer (whether NPC or actual player pirates). Because some players (besides you) would just hop off and leave.

  • ProngHorn134

    @oneuglymugly I like your idea. I run a lot of solo as well. It is not fun to run from a brigantine for an hour, from one side of the map and back (Yes some players are very persistent). As for the few who have posted you need to get "gud" or be a better pirate, you are salty and toxic to the forum.

  • EVA1977
    Captain
    Insider

    The problem here is half of t he people have that problem and half do not.

    I would say it has happened to me about 50% of the time and it is pointless to waste an hour on a fort solo because if you do defeat it there is a high chance some big ship will see your sloop and know it is easy pray in most cases.

    Even if a ton of players manage to defeat forts while solo and turn in the loot every time there are other which are not so lucky and is a big deterrent from returning to the game.

    But I guess there is no proper way to please everyone.

  • Genuine Heather
    Captain
    Insider

    Grieving: Mourning a profound loss, such as the death of a loved one.

    Griefing: Intentionally disrupting another player's game for no other reason than to cause them personal distress, often exploiting/abusing the mechanics of the game to do so.

    Just wanted to clear that up. :)

  • TheMacmurdock
    Master

    Thank you for this story.

    I would like to appologise to everyone that sailed the seas in a sloop,brigantine or galleon that got in our way.

    We are very sorry that we sunk your ship.
    Sorry for all the Trashtalk(we use this to get you off your A-game)
    But most of all,we are very sorry for all the people that are going to be on a sloop,brigantine or galleon in the upcoming months. :)

    Stay safe,Happy Newyear

    Sincerely Yours Capt.TheMacmurdock A10PL

    P.S. Thank you for all the treasure

  • Oneuglymugly

    Hello everyone,
    I appreciate your responses. While of some of you (like the guy who only read the first line) clearly just come here to brag on yourselves or put down others, many of you had some very good points. @ENF0RCER @Barnabas-Seadog @KattTruewalker @CotU42 @Galactic-Geek (@Genuine-Heather you dirty dog) I thank you for your time and consideration to this post. I decided to watch videos of other solo-sloopers to see how they do it right and I've learned a few things. I would say my argument has changed in some ways, but at the core is still the same. I would agree with many of you now that solo play is a viable method, but it is not the same style of play as co-op. If you are a good pirate you can out maneuver larger ships and I have watched several videos of a two man sloop taking out a Galleon with ease. However, the problem still remains of- what if I'm a one man and I want to clear a skele fort? It takes me an hour or more, and any ship that passes in the meantime can kill me, so this is not a viable method. In short, the game IS playable solo, you just have to play it differently. This makes sense, but I wish they made a little easier on the solo guy.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @oneuglymugly I for one love the hardships of solo play and as it is viable, but more time consuming, risky and punishing - the perfect learning grounds to perfect your play. If I want to have it easier I open up my crew for another member to join.

  • DISLEX fx
    Captain
    Insider

    Why not join a crew? Solo is hard and SoT wants to get people communicating. As you have stated, soloing can be done, but it's also considered the game's "hard mode". If you want to play the game with a bit more of ease, check out the Find a Crew sections and see which group you think you would fit into.

    I'm not saying give up on soloing, but you can add what feels like a whole new game when you find yourself a group you get to know and play with often.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @themacmurdock said in How to stop the grieving and toxicity:

    Sorry for all the Trashtalk (we use this to get you off your A-game)

    Let your actions speak louder than your words, and I assure that that will be more than enough.

  • Muzackmann
    Marauder
    Insider

    @oneuglymugly Like Katt mentioned earlier it's all about attention and checking for people. When you are doing a fort solo, you need to take your time and make sure no one is coming for you by checking constantly. If I haven't repeated myself enough times yet lets do one more. Check constantly. The good part of when your already at the fort are two things:

    1. The skelly's re pop when someone approaches the fort, often setting off the cannon towers which can give you a heads up.
    2. You can grab those cannon towers yourself and make good use of them. Its literally a stronghold meant to hold off people and even if your by yourself it gives you good high ground. (and a hell of a lot of gunpowder barrels)

    For escaping its just about knowing what to do when certain ships attack. I know if I have an angry galleon behind me, then their turning is not working in their favor, so i'll often sword lunge to get on their boat and anchor them. I'm never looking to topple them, just slow them down.

    I'm in the boat with the people not in favor of making slooping easier because quite honestly one of the worst things I deal with are a two man sloop.

  • ENF0RCER
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @oneuglymugly said in How to stop the grieving and toxicity:

    Hello everyone,
    I appreciate your responses. While of some of you (like the guy who only read the first line) clearly just come here to brag on yourselves or put down others, many of you had some very good points. @ENF0RCER @Barnabas-Seadog @KattTruewalker @CotU42 @Galactic-Geek (@Genuine-Heather you dirty dog) I thank you for your time and consideration to this post. I decided to watch videos of other solo-sloopers to see how they do it right and I've learned a few things. I would say my argument has changed in some ways, but at the core is still the same. I would agree with many of you now that solo play is a viable method, but it is not the same style of play as co-op. If you are a good pirate you can out maneuver larger ships and I have watched several videos of a two man sloop taking out a Galleon with ease. However, the problem still remains of- what if I'm a one man and I want to clear a skele fort? It takes me an hour or more, and any ship that passes in the meantime can kill me, so this is not a viable method. In short, the game IS playable solo, you just have to play it differently. This makes sense, but I wish they made a little easier on the solo guy.

    Very good for you. I'm glad me and others have helped change your views and our advice has made solo slooping a better experience for you. I hope you will continue to improve and find the rich and unique experiences this game has to offer.

    As for you point/question for Soloing forTs i will say thEy Are the most difficuLt challenges in The game and tHats not becuasE of the A.I. Treats. Take fRom somEone who hAs Soloed many forts. all i can say on this matter is U have to think moRe piratE. Ask yourself why do all the work when you can have some else do it. Pro tip you only need the key and you get the key from killing the captian. Please take very care consideration to to my words.

    #Be More Pirate

  • DragonWhir0
    Marauder
    Insider

    If your disagreeing with trash talk, it is perfectly fine. “ on nice sword lunge, but I’m over here. Nice miss nerd!” This is perfectly fine because we are merely mocking the player, which makes you hnset and throws off your game. If you are complaining that a sloop can not beat a galleon, then you are wrong. Yes a galleon has more players, so close encounter fights are a more challenging effort.

    If you are complaining that a better team beat you, then your just showing poor sportsmanship. Have I been sunk? Yes, my two man brig is very similar to your one man sloop. If we payed more attention then we woulda saw the approaching galleon, and prepared to engage in combat. Rather then blame the attacking ship, blame yourself for not being prepared to defend.

    You hint to make a safe guard in the world to prevent “griefing?” Sweet heart, sinking a ship is not griefing. Taking supplies from a ship is not griefing. Taking your loot is not, move on and sink another. The more you play Sea of Friends and alliance with everyone the more upset you will get when the open world wants to possibly pvp.

    As an example, i alliances wth another galleon at a fort. My buddy drove off with my ship and I loaded everything from the galleon onto their rowboat. When the galleon took off, I lowered the rowboat and floated into the sea. Morally it was probably wrong, but being a pirate doesn’t mean I can’t deceive another crew. BY THE WAY, that galleon was still in the alliance when I sold their stuff, so at least they got the gold.

    If you add a safe spot or zone in the world, kids are going to run and fleet to this spot. THEN trash talk you for not getting their stuff, while hiding behind the protection of “momma bear” people just need to learn to fight, rather then run. What happens when you become max level? Only reason your complaining as of right now, is possibly because you are not max level. Being max, all I have are voyages and ship battles. If I sell from another player I deserve the loot because I put played their TEAM. Yes solo sloop is a pin, which is why I prefer two man sloop. Basically maximize the crew size for your desired ship, anything else is lacking and will hurt you.

    About the double guns, I was about to write a post about t. Personally they should just allow 1 gun and. 1 sword. If I can put play a team with 5 bullets and a sword then I consider myself great. If I dominate a team because I can quickly switch between guns then it feels cheap. Those who want an easy kill use it because it’s over powered. Being killed in .5 seconds doesn’t show skill to me but rather how much of a “Wild West” sling shooter you are.

  • Look Behind You
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Moderator
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @enf0rcer don't always have to steal it, could always find it...dig it up

  • ENF0RCER
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @triheadedmonkey said in How to stop the grieving and toxicity:

    @enf0rcer don't always have to steal it, could always find it...dig it up

    How would you dig up skull fort Loot?

  • Garbhchu
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @dragonwhir0 I'm brand new to the game, so the blush of it is still on me, but I'd like to weigh in here.

    First, I think the idea of buying protection is a really cool idea! If done right it could make for some very interesting interactions, but it could potentially also be used against people. Game mechanics like that can sometimes become toxic, particularly if they force other players into a course of action.

    I've been playing the game for only a few days now, but already I've had some very frustrating situations arise right along the lines you mention. I'm loathe to see much in the way of small team/ solo protection added, however, because the danger feels more real with the situation the way it is, and those moments when you manage to scrape away clean when the great hulks come your way are so much the sweeter for it!

    I'd also like to point out that what you're talking about is exactly why they included the alliance option. Just last night playing solo — which I've been doing to get a feel for the full mechanics — I decided to form an alliance with another sloop manned by two experienced players. Together we took down a skeletal galleon that came on us unawares.

    I guess my point is that playing solo or on a sloop is not just about playing SoT as if it were a single player or coop game but more like running a game on a higher difficulty setting. Adding an NPC-operated protection racket would conceivably reduce the amount of player interaction (which alliances now promote), and that seems contrary to the intent of the game.

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @oneuglymugly

    I like it a lot, although it has a few things I would like to suggest/mention:

    Buying protection for money
    This game has had a core rule (among a few others) since it began: everybody is on a level field. This is why the commonly suggested 'buying of materials' has never made it into the game, and why you can't upgrade your weapons or ships. Having something be limited to progression but give you an advantage is against the game's rules.

    I don't entirely know what to do for obtaining that protection, maybe having it just have a cooldown or be related to how many ships are there?

    What does it do to alliances?
    If those in an alliance decide to attack you, what do these protectors do about it? Do they ignore it, assuming two allies fighting must just be them having fun, or intervene in it, assuming that it is not?

    The difference between a solo galleon and a full one
    The thing about making it unavailable to galleons, is that people like myself, who prefer to solo one (and not entirely because of having less people attack you), will be unable to do anything about an attacker in that outpost (yes, I have won that fight before, but not every time). It should be based off of crew size in comparison to the ship, not just the ship size.

    I know that this was not meant for the game, but maybe a scaled down version of this could be better. Not too powerful, but still some help to you.

  • DragonWhir0
    Marauder
    Insider

    @ultmateragnarok

    The Moto that I sail by “never trust a pirate.” As above I mentioned alliancing with another crew and then stole it from them. I steal from other players, simply so that “stole: 500k” “ lost to another ship: -100k” I play like this so I never have to think about it. “Oh I lost this amount but I took a lot more from this other player” plus it gives a bit of a thrill behind it. “ oh boy! Look at all that loot in the water!!!” As well as, “ there is another ship! They want my stuff, prepare to defend!”

    Why should I alliance and get half the cut? When I can just take it all?

    The reason why they added the alliance is more so for the pve players. I still think it hurts the game to an extent because people are now more willing to accept help from other crews. It allows ships to almost park up against one another. “Yeah we are friendly, let’s alliance. BOOM haha!”

    Pvp player can force pvp on another crew, but pve can not force themselves onto a pvp player.

    I also dislike the idea of getting “free”(they sell) gold across the map, but that’s a personal opinion.

    I dislike that some of the commendation are forcing you to team up with another player. It’s an out right “ be nice” I am nicer to a younger crew, if they are around age ten. I typically just leave them be, but around sixteen, it’s free game.

    As for your guardian system, I am 50/50 on the solo sloop protection option. Since if you have a galleon chasing you, you sail against wind. If you have a rowboat start storing items on it. You can also out maneuver the galleon with quick turns.

    In my personal experience, there are more pve players then pvp. I typically run into pve, it’s also a thrill to get a ship that turns to engage me. I was in a duo sloop and the galleon in front of me, try’s to keg us. They missed and the guy calls out to us “ you don’t know what your getting yourself into!” Oh?! A challenge. They sunk five minutes later with out the help of cursed balls or gunpowder kegs. “Oh, you are right, we shouldn’t have messed with the big galleon!”

    Maybe unsportsmanlike but on a video game, doesn’t matter which game you play. People are going to gloat, about their accomplishments and rub it in.

    If they make a 1 man vessel, it should be harder to spot via spyglass. 1 Man a galleon? You are crazy, it’s a nightmare alone to drive the thing let alone repair, defend ect. I do i when my crew is off the boat but I’d never load a solo galleon to do voyages.

    Your thoughts on protection, i still feel that the crew that purchasss the protection will be able to freely trash talk because they can’t protect themselves normally. If the loot under protection has a “debuff” which impacts a negative value to gold. This will reduce pvp onto that ship, possibly. I’d still attack them but id be displeased to learn that 50% value is reduced. As an example. I think people will yell you “ hey don’t sink me! I’m under protection and you won’t get a lot of gold, losers!”
    Or as stated in earlier post “ haha I’m protected.” I had a kid five months ago jump off his galleon and say to us” are you sure you wanna fight a legend?” We were already legend but either way we were going to take their stuff.

    The easiest way to make gold is to sink another player. They might not have a lot but one day you could get lucky and gain 30 captains chest from a brig that was on a gilded gold hoarder.

    The sea of a dangerous place, =)

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @dragonwhir0

    PvP players live for the times someone didn't sell their treasure often enough. I know this well enough, as I do PvP often as well as PvE. Why would anyone really trust a pirate anyways, unless there is something to gain from it?

    I solo a galleon because it is nigh indestructible from a lot of PvP threats, most sailors leave it alone, and it has room for my friends to join. I also just like the layout and look of this ship in particular.

    Any type of protection would need some balance, such as less gold for whoever sells it for both sides.

    Anyone can trash talk, although it shouldn't get too serious. Would you expect pirates to be silent or to yell insults at their opponents?

  • DragonWhir0
    Marauder
    Insider

    @ultmateragnarok

    What your implying is, punishing pvp actions, and killing it completely. You are punishing the attacking ship for the mistakes of the counter ship.

    1. anchor dropped
    2. sails down
    3. ship aimed at island
    4. not scanning the horizon

    Rather then punish this player, we should punish the other team. I have no remorse for spending fifteen minutes taking out a player ship that can possibly net gain me 30k.

    I’d rather someone trash talk then have no comment, they make for interesting plays. I reported a guy for using the n- word. Other then that I don’t report people.

    The game is more enjoyable wth pvp, and claiming loot.

    I agree that the game feels more like a co op then a solo style. Too much to do, though it is manageable. Once pirates get over that first hump and are around levels 20/20/20 they should have some basic knowledge for fighting, sailing and shooting.

    I do not think there should be protection because the sailor isn’t experienced enough to scan the horizon for possible threats.

    Let me ask, do you play differently now because of your frustrating events? I’ve been sunk before and lost 200-300k worth of stuff. Nearly a full Athena worth of loot, because I enjoy the thrill that someone’s could take it. Yes I always upset for the moment but I got over it the next day. Had a brig run from me to turn in a single castaway chest, then proceed to drop my loot into the water. They stole a single muraders chest, but hey, they at least got the thrill and satisfaction of stealing.

    I’d suggest using crew finder, get someone to play with regularly.

    Reason why I dislike the protection is because every/ most players I’ve been running into are newer. All the older players seem to be in hibernation till arena or the start of a new campaign/ event.

    Yesterday I was duo slooping with a friend and took out three galleons two brigs and two sloops.

    I am not opposed to two sloops teaming up to take out a galleon, however, I find it’s silly when two galleons team up to fight a sloop.

    If you want to ruin a pvp day, or at least my own, rolling over and submitting is a real downer.

    Also I don’t know if players are new or not just based off seeing a ship in the spy glass. I think that marking a ship as new would cause targeting, even easier. “ hey that ship has a big ‘I am new, I am protected’ flag above their ship, let’s show them how to fight.

    Having an armada rise out of the sea to kill off the attacker would be frustrating. I’ve had skeleton ships spawn at me right as I’m about to attack a galleon. I have to stop everything and kill that ship before chasing, the now fleeing galleon.

    Rare adding protecting to solo sloops could possibly cause more players to just solo sloop in order to “save” or have that protection, in hopes that no one will attack them because the value is less for the attacker.

    I’ve been sunk solo but you quickly learn from it, and change how you play.

    For your solo galleon, I took out a solo galleon that had about half his gilded gold hoarder completed. My chests now, sorry they decided to play solo on a galleon, I was expecting a challenge. If I solo a galleon it’s me going to a fort to resupply for my team that should be arriving in less then thirty minutes, never to do a voyage.

  • DragonWhir0
    Marauder
    Insider

    Also, the current big time streamer for SoT is a pvp player. I do believe that him playing the game has helped to influence people to start playing again.

    My reasoning is that I heard they didn’t sell a lot of copies of the game during Black Friday, a few weeks later the streamer started to play. It just seems like a coincidence that more people are playing/ using double guns to mimic and copy his style of play. This is my personal opinion; I do not watch him, no particular reason, so I don’t know the entire story.

    I just noticed that twitch viewer count for SoT has always been around 2k for most of the time til about a week after thanksgiving. Which typically sits around 15k -20k viewers.

    If you add the protection it would probably irritate him since he is a pvp player, which could possible remove his involvement with SoT. ( playing the game)

    He is SoT publicity, he’s showing off the game and bringing in players.

    This is an opinion. So I don’t know all the facts.

    Joe the director also seems to like pvp, there was a SoT mixer where he wanted to gun powder keg another ship, who called out “ we are friendly!” And replied “we are not” which is nice to see that he enjoys pvp like some of us.

    Just hope and pray that the majority of the pvp players will be in the arena and not the adventure mode.

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @dragonwhir0

    I wouldn't say make any protection an undefeatable force completely removing all risk, just something to ward off a few of the less serious crews. I would never suggest to remove or punish PvP in a game like this. Not something to rely on solely to protect you, but a bit of support for your side.

    I do often have people to play with, and one of the reasons I use a galleon is to allow them to join whenever they feel like it.

    Marking ships as new is most likely going to cause targeting, although not by the very good players. They always look for a challenge.

    I don't know why people think they can solo a gilded in one go. With a mission like that, you should always sell often when you are a solo or small crew.

  • Oneuglymugly

    @DragonWhir0 I understand what you are saying. I do not want to discourage PvP in the least, I want to encourage it! When I mention "buying protection" it is important to note that you can still attack and kill and punish that player, but you incur a bounty. This is supposed to alter the focus of the good PvP players from "Oh hey, a sloop, that's an easy kill I bet he has 10k worth of stuff lets get him" to "This guy has a 150k bounty, he is only a few islands away lets go get him!".

    Nobody knows the perfect solution, but there is obviously something wrong with the game when most forum posts are people complaining and a large portion of players who bought the game have stopped playing for one reason or another. I actually really love about 85% of this game. The hand to hand combat is great, since I have learned how to dodge and correctly sword lunge I have loads of fun fighting other pirates. I like the fact that everyone is one a level playing field, and experience is king when it comes to winning engages. But there is something very important I have learned since making this post:

    You guys are not your average SoT players. You guys are thoughtful and, while you may be ruthless, you are respectful. I'm writing this post right now because I was just playing in open crew on a sloop and I had completed 8 GH quests with a random new friend. We had to run from players twice because I had too much loot to try and fight and I just wanted to play safe and get the XP. Both times I was doing everything right, scanning the horizon, anchor up, ship pointed and ready to sail out, and it saved us. But then we were on our way to turn in the loot and another sloop with 2 people on it came zooming at us from behind an island. I did not see them coming and I was slowing down to check out a shipwreck (I assume they were camping) that was a stones throw away from an outpost. They shot our boat with an anchor cannon ball and the boat lurched to a stop, they boarded and killed us. Okay, no problem- I got outplayed- all part of the game. But it did not end there. They were trash talking me before I was killed but I thought nothing of it, and then I respawned... and they were there waiting for me... They killed us 3 more times all the while talking a bunch of trash and as it did not look like they were going to stop any time soon, we scuttled the boat. I simply stopped playing and called it a night, coming to check the replies to this post. When a game allows you to do this to people it promotes a toxic environment. Those types of players play this game strictly to do that to people. They live for it. And people like me are the ones who quit playing SoT because we are tired of it. I ONLY play PvP games and destroying another player who tried his/her best to stop me is what I live for, but there needs to be a limit. Not all players have the morals I see displayed in these reply posts. You all would kill a player or sink his ship, take his loot, maybe talk some trash and then leave them alone, but many do not.

    I do not advocate for a system which discourages PvP and rewards bad players, I advocate a system that rewards good players and promotes conflict between good players. Let the little solo sloop guy run his quests and get his 10k, you have bigger fish to fry, like the Pirate Outlaw Markus Arulius who has a 500k bounty and is rumored to have never been sunk. I'm trying to initiate a discussion about content. Content that will help the new guys not to get sh.t on countless times before either becoming a master of the game or quitting, while simultaneously adding to the gameplay of experienced players and giving them motivations for "end game content". What do you do now that you are a pirate legend and a master of the seas? You stop playing and wait for Arena or a new PvE event to be released, or you sail around aimlessly looking for people to fight.

    Imagine if there was a new guild of cutthroat pirates and to gain prestige you had to sink ships. Sloops gave you one point, Brigantines two, and Galleons four. After you reach 50 points you prestige and become a "renowned pirate" and your name appears on some leader board. Now other players can embark on missions to take you down. The cutthroat pirates offer a quest, "20 points to anyone who can sink a renowned pirate!" and players can go to the tavern and pay a sketchy looking man 5k gold to learn about your location and have your ship appear on their map. If you are sunk you lose those 20 points and have to work to re-obtain your title. This system can be scaled so you have renowned pirates, merciless pirates, treacherous pirates, and cutthroat pirates, each increasing in points needed to obtain and rewarding more points to those who manage to sink them. This guild is made up of pirates and pirates love gold, so they are willing to offer their protection to anyone willing to pay for it. At an outpost you can pay for this protection and anyone who attacks this ship will receive no points for sinking it. I understand many of you took my post at face value but what I wrote was merely a suggestion, there are endless possibilities for content to be added to this game and I was hoping to start a discussion on what this content could be with the goal of: reducing toxicity and greifing of new players while providing more content for experienced players.

    Any thoughts? @ENF0RCER @Garbhchu @UltmateRagnarok @DragonWhir0 Id like to hear what you think.

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